So I'm 100% sold on the open market. No government regulation, the market self-regulates. Poor businesses fail...

So I'm 100% sold on the open market. No government regulation, the market self-regulates. Poor businesses fail, good businesses thrive. Good businesses create work, employment, and manufacture capital. Also, production of capital is basically the only thing that creates wealth for a state. Open market also adjusts appropriate to inflation and deflation, whereas a government-regulated market creates bubbles.

The only part I'm not sold on is on how this is beneficial for the environment. I realize that environmental catastrophes are negative for these businesses (someone finding a dead rat in a bottle of coke would be devastating for Coca Cola, and the oil spills are very bad for business too), but I don't see what would keep businesses from cutting corners in terms of environmental concerns. What keeps some douche-y corporation from using pesticides that have devastating long-term effects (which they do), and other things of this nature?

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Blue-pilled af.

Do you really think goverments have the economic power to regulate conglomorates?

>muh competitiveness to increase quality

Yeah right. That's why food in our countries are literal shit but still expensive as fuck.

is europe talking shit again?

If there aren't, why do so many NGOs have factories in poorer countries without any environmental regulation? And why is literally all of the deforestation on Earth occuring near the equator?

If you think governments DONT not have the power to regulate conglomerates, youre a moron

>I'm 100% sold on the open market
>Check flag

A materialist nordic shit. Every time.

You realize 90% of the people here are economic conservatives, right?

Have you ever met MBA types, I'm talking full on Atlas Shrugged thumpers?

I've had a couple of eye opening conversations in my lifetime. They view destroying anything that is in the way of making money as good. People, the environment, friends, their own bodies and minds. The see sort of honor in making a perceived sacrifice for short term gain.

They don't give a single fuck about whether the planet burns up in the next 10 years, if their race fails and dies, or anything at all. Nada.

Make no mistake they are the worst kind of people. In fact, keeping these people at bay is what makes me so attracted to national Socialism.

Norway talking shit again. One day we will conquer you and use your oil in a fucking sensible matter to get international leverage. You're a bunch of morons. Giving nobels peace prize to a Chinese opposition? Literally rekting your own peoples future.

The market is already free. That's what's allowing them to build factories in the third world.

It wouldn't surprise me if OP was one of (((them)))

Yes I have met these people, and they are idiots? Whats your point?

I'm sold on the open market because I believe it is inherently beneficial to the health of a state's economy, not because I think it will make me personally richer. And I'm positive there are people like me who think this, who also care about the health of our planet.

Trodde vi var venner :(

Idealistic cunt, shoo off with your dirty (((ideologies))).

You can accuse a country for being oppressive, but if conglomorates are exploiting people, it's "survival of the fittest"?
Free market is literally the cancer of this earth. Fuck off please.

>pic related

How do you deal with monopolies on necessities?

You are vaguely implying that will inevitably happen in the open market, and I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, but I would like you to give a fact-based reasoning for why this is.

Sounds like you are 100% brainwashed to me. I am ashamed to be from the same country as you

oilprice.com/Latest-Energy-News/World-News/Venezuelan-Crisis-Worsens-Water-Twice-as-Expensive-as-Gasoline.html

This is what happens in a free market.

OK so so far I've gotten a bunch of left-wingers calling me a retard. Not very constructive, but thanks anyway.

Conservative americans, where you at?

>100% open market
A way for the Jew to exploit people even more. Why else would you see so many Jews (Rothbard, Ayn Rand, Mises, etc.) support no regulations. Hell, Rothbard even supports selling of children.

Fascism is the way.

The point is that those are the people who run the economy now and would entirely dominate the economy and thus the world in the complete free market.
You are advertising handing a gun to a methhead in a room full of normal people.

Left winger?
Shut up (((filth)))

>implying people who aren't full retard are leftists

Can you please emigrate

>the market self-regulates
Yes goym, it does everytime

What happens when the EU levies a 30% tax on your oil imports making you noncompetitive blackmailing you to join the EU? Free markets are a kike lie that will never happen. Its newspeak. Stop eating mushrooms.

He is. That's what happens when your only channel for political discussion is Sup Forums and national conservatives.

Okay so not 100%. Regulations in terms of environmental concerns, as I've said. But I see governmental influence on the economy as a way to exert power by people who are just as evil as the corporations (who I don't love in any way), and whose restrictions make it harder for smaller businesses to get a foothold. And when these governments "insure" the money in banks, banks are less inclined to be careful with their money, and spend it recklessly. We spend more time researching which phone we are going to buy than which bank to use. I think this insurance, and this micromanagement by governments is not beneficial to the self-adjusting nature an economy should have.

I think I've met these people. They were called the Chinese or something

>You realize 90% of the people here are economic conservatives, right?

Is this bait?

Libertarianism has been dead on Sup Forums for nearly two years now. It died along with the Libertarian movement in America itself. At its heart, Sup Forums always has been and always will be fascist.

>Literally rekting your own peoples future.
Ohhhhhhhhh says the eternal swede

Not leftist here mate
You have to believe in free market but it's not enough

Also why are you so worried about the market? your country will be 50% muslim in the next few years

>and whose restrictions make it harder for smaller businesses to get a foothold.
Good luck competing as a small business in a free market where you get flooded by products and services form China, India, etc.

Is it really self-regulative? I remember even in uni lectors talked about (((allmighty))) hand wich regulates the market.

Sure, if you want the jews to win

Hold on, I should have clarified this earlier - are you for or against globalism?

Well, combined with an open market is also the need for each sovereign state to manufacture its own capital. If all a country does is import products from China (like the US does), they no longer have an economy. Even if a countr buys products from China and India, as long as they have capital to export, their economy will have an advantage. I see this as a lot of the reason why western economies arent doing perfectly: too much emphasis on the service industry, instead of producing capital, which is imported from eastern manufacturers

Originally this was handled quite nicely through the English common law system. e.g. Apple farmers sued factories that just fucked up their shit.

I want my country and countries that share values akin to mine (i.e. non-shitty western countries that arent full of niggers and muslims) to do well

so i guess thats a "No"

i believe state sovereignty is crucial to the prevention of nuclear war

You are a stupid idiot if you think an open market is the best thing for mankind. Even if you stupidly ignore history showing corporations naturally form oligopolies and cartels you can't ignore what's happening now. In modern capitalism, the goal is always to maximize profit. ALWAYS, at all costs ASAP. If you can get away with something you do. So if it means cutting corners to fuck up the environment, who cares. The shareholders are breathing down your neck and they only care about the stock value. It means you need to make profit. AT ALL COSTS. Even if it means axing your research department and you losing on the long term. Look at cuckmerica where corporations are almighty. Both of their parties are basically sock puppets for different industries.

Don't believe me? Look at how hedge funds operate. Look at all the lobbies and politicians actively working against the greater good. That is the future you believe in.

Stop being a nordic.

free market doesn't work in case of the environment or any positive thing that is freely shared but not priced for because the negative externality isn't priced in. (down wind costs to the environment).

There isn't really a way right now for the free market to charge people for the damage they do to the environment.

I'm a free market guy, and an environmentalist so it presents a tough choice where I think that the dumbasses in govt actually have to intervene here. Don't truly see away around some govt regulation with regards to environmental issues.

Then why do you condemn the fuhrer?

You wouldnt have arabs there if you'd let him do his thing.

Why don't you stop ignoring all the arguments people brought in? Take in the red pill and open your eyes. The concept of open market is just as true as the concept of communism. A nice ideal but doesn't work in reality because people are inherently fucked up

look whose talking, mr "we have a nigger female culture minister who hates fakes news, also literally every single white swedish girl (including your mom) i know is currently being raped by mudslimes"

well that blows

Exactly and this is what Sup Forums needs to learn. It's time to finally accept communism since it's the only way we stop (((Them))) exploiting innocents who just want a family.

>create wealth for a state

Why bother with a state?

yea i read your post, you make a valid point. noone else ive ignored really has, though. mostly just saying "retard" a bunch

and yes i do agree with your point, but i also see government intervention in america as pretty much being the reason why the US economy is inevitably doomed, which is going to hurt the masses even more than having evil jew businessmen running things (which isnt ideal either, but nothing is)

slut, she just wants dick, real bad.

youtu.be/iXG9cM5QxgU

Fucking This!

>The Concept of Communism is a nice ideal

No. No it's fucking not.

I love Norway!

Because it doesn't work that way. A country can focus on producing shit but with the way globalism works the production site will be transferred to china/india, the head office will be transferred (in name) to bermuda (to evade tax) and the product will be sold in your country.

It's a lose lose situation for anyone but the shareholders and the executives.. So tell me, what should a country then focus on?

That silly. Simply enforce property rights. Why can you sue if someone dumps trash on your land, but you can't if someone sends it down the river or burns it and sends it over as air pollution? Just because we havent engaged the the free market mechanism doesnt me it doesnt exist.

God damn thick fucking dane

"Open market also adjusts appropriate to inflation and deflation"

Not it doesn't you moron. Even Milton Friedman believed that governments have to control the money supply. Open markets do NOT contrl for inflation and deflation.

Also, if the free market was put into play in 2008 and the banks were allowed to fall, it would have caused 50% unemployment and the destruction of the US. My god you free market fundamentalists are stupid. Do you even understand why banks exist, and why governments do not allow them to fail? Why do you think too big to fail even exists? Thick uneducated poltards blame it all on Obama, or liberals or jews etc. but banks are always propped up because the consequences of letting them fail are literally catastrophic.

Honestly it's truly unbeleivable that you morons get your economics education from Sup Forums, a bunch of stupid, basement dwelling morons who are clueless about literally everything. How about you read a fucking book for once Kasper, instead of relying on subhumans on the internet.

>the market self-regulates
That's a fairy tale. Doesn't happen.

why is the production moved to china? because they have cheaper labour, and because there are less regulations. Why do they have cheap labour? Because their economy USED TO BE poor, but now its getting strong, and they are getting paid more, and the chinese factory workers are now spending as much money on service industry luxuries as westerners used to think only we do. Their economy is doing super good because they are the ones producing capital and exporting it. Why arent we doing the same, to a similar (proportional) extent?

>So I'm 100% sold on the open market.
You're an idiot.

>if the free market was put into play in 2008 and the banks were allowed to fall, it would have caused 50% unemployment and the destruction of the US.

yeah and now its going to happen anyway, but itll be even worse than it would have been. And now donald trump owns the bubble, and has to spend the next 4-8 years lying about it and doing everything he can to postpone it till he's done

>but i also see government intervention in america as pretty much being the reason why the US economy is inevitably doomed, which is going to hurt the masses even more than having evil jew businessmen running things

But why? Why do you think someone who only cares about money will be better than someone who cares about staying in seat of power? Look at the EU. The US is corrupt beyond salvation but look at what the EU does. They still take some stances against corporations (probably for selfish reasons, to stay in power) but at least they try to protect the masses. What makes you think the open market, which has shown again and again to only care about money, will be any better?

No matter what stormfags and commies say, we're on your side.

Well, in addition, I am possibly for IGOs imposing regulations without micromanaging individual economies the way several state governments do. In truth, i dont think anyone gives a shit, and all I see is people trying to impose more laws on me

but as I said in OP, this is my sole concern, which is the entire reason I made this thread. How to protect the environment AND maintain healthy economies for western states that have good (i.e. not islamic & shitty) values?

Because of living standards. Your fucking euro can only buy a bag of sweets here, while in China you can buy a whole meal. Those chinks can survive on e.g. a 2 euro's a day. How the fuck are you going to live from that in Norway? You can't compete with that unless you automate everything (and even then that's questionable due to maintenance).

Don't pin me on the numbers, the concept is the same.

The buying-power of renminbi has been sharply increasing in recent years, and suddenly the two renminbi each factory worker makes per day buys him a lot more stuff than it used to. Things are getting more expensive there, and cheaper here

>I am possibly for IGOs imposing regulations
So there you have it. You acknowledge the possible need for regulations, which is already against gthe concept of the open market. Now, if you can accept that we need some regulations to not completely fuck up the whole earth, why not accept some regulations to protect the environment? You already conceded that a total free open market will be a disaster without some things to keep it in check.

What statue is in the background there? Has a sword and shield?

So when I say "open market" Im not talking about globalised NGOs doing whatever they want whenever they want. im talking about sovereign states not micromanaging their own economy and bailing out banks that run out of business, and wasting millions on failed infastructural failures, and creating an environment in which businesses are free to take overt risks (such as selling sub-prime loans to hookers) and basically go against "natural selection". And to create false inflation. But this happens, in most states.

"yeah and now its going to happen anyway, but itll be even worse than it would have been. And now donald trump owns the bubble, and has to spend the next 4-8 years lying about it and doing everything he can to postpone it till he's done"

Hey Vegard, what are you rambling on about? You don't have a fucking clue about economics. Stop getting your education from Sup Forumstard subhumans on the internet, READ A FUCKIGN BOOK. You do not have a clue what you are talking about.

And no it is not "worse than it would have been". You don't understand retard, banks or financial institutions are needed for every aspect of business life. If all or most banks collapsed, the business world would not be able to function and the entire economy would grind to a halt. Unemployment, according to the macro literature, would be around 50-60%. The entire country would collapse and there would be riots. And once there are mass riots, the country is finished.

You don't understand, if the banks failed, the US would not exist as it does today. You clearly do not even understand why banks exist, or what their function is. Like I said, read a book, then your tiny little scrotum-sized cranium might learn something which is not pure unadulterated garbage.

Yes, but you still ignore my point that they are still lower in wages. Sure maybe in 30 years or so they might catch up but for now they are the cheaper ones. And after that, robots will be cheaper. As a country, you can't win. Plus you still ignored the tax evasion problem. This is the reason of rise of alt-right. The rise of the D. and right wing extremism. The common man is fucked and doesn't have a way out. So they will vote for anyone who promises a solution, even though it might just be lies.

>In fact, keeping these people at bay is what makes me so attracted to national Socialism.
But NatSoc won't even take them out. Stalinism will.

> You don't understand, if the banks failed, the US would not exist as it does today.
Then fuck it, it was doomed from the beginning. No need to spend money to maintain something that can't maintain itself.

thats a lot of text without a single argument

tax evasion & wages still applies to my point. Tax is essentially a form of regulation. Lower taxes on businesses, and they dont all become overseas NGOs

Your business will fail if you think only in present.

shut you up, didnt i?
enjoy being a member of the EU

bitch

But dear user, let me get this through. What happens if a state doesn't manage their own economy? The natural state for corporations is to become bigger and bigger. For example, what happens now in pharmaceutical industry is that small start ups do research, and if they have something promising they get bought out by big pharma. In fact, I think recently two big pharma companies merged. The natural state for all corporations is to become bigger and bigger until they rule their market. That, we established is not good.

Now for your bailing the banks and letting bussineses take overt risks. I am also against the bank bailing thing but I can certainly see why they did it. Let's say the governement didn't bail out those banks. The result would be that a lot of people would be bankrupt overnight. Other people, fearing that their bank will drop as well will go get all their money from the banks, inducing a bank run. The banks will run out of money, people / bussinesses can't lend money and this usually results in lower consumption. Due to the chaos of a bank run and the lower consumption, inflation will drop and people will hoard all their money instead of spending it.
The logical conclusion is something you should be able to guess now but it involves a downwards spiral of not spending and even lower inflation (possibly deflation). The end result would be a society that is unstable and could collapse, leading to anarchy/revolution/civil war

Of course it might not play out like I described but if you have paid attention to the news these years it should sound familiar. I'll give you a hint: "Greece, pay your denbts!"

>A materialist nordic shit. Every time.

Youre changing the goal posts.
All you did was call him a shit then switch to muslim bait. Brazilian jewjitsu.

Rodina Mat, in Kiev

You already used this image today im pretty sure

> big corporations is no good
Nah.
If corporation starts acting too cheeky and rises prices like faggot, small startups can now compete with it easier.

>thats a lot of text without a single argument
If you ignore them than yes. They still have lower wages and living costs. Are you going to wait several decennia until the problem fixes itself? Robots will be the next thing to replace to make it even cheaper. SO what the fuck are you going to do in the mean time? Starve?

Lower taxes mean other countries will lower them as well. You can't win in a rat race to the bottom. Effectively null tax would be final solution but then you still can't beat countries with lower wages. If it isn't china it will be some other country. There are plenty of third-world countries with low cost slave workers.

but the banks are already telling everyone to hoard their money. thats been the culture in the US since the 80s, and its devastating.

my perspective is that yes if the government hadnt bailed out the banks, it WOULD have been devastating, and the US would have suffered, but they would have gone back to an era of manufacturing and selling capital. exporting, and generating employment. it would have been a blowback, but it would hopefully have set their economy on the right track. instead, their national debt continues to increase, massively, to an extent where i cant even understand how they havent gone under yet. they invest more in the service-industry & create false inflation than in creating something they can sell to get out of debt. i dont know what will happen to the US, but i think its going to be even more catastrophic than it would have been 10 years ago.

but on the corporations merging, i do agree with that. Im not sure if there is a way to avoid compartmentalization, but i hope there is. but even if a country has 1 big corporation running things (which, again, isnt ideal), that is still 1 sovereign country having something that they sell to the world exclusively, which secures their finances.

KEK, no you won't. They will usurp all market share, THEN start raising prises. Plus they will have a lot more power. Negotiation power to the distributors/unions, lobby power for the governement, optimized supply chains. That's just the shit I can come up with at the moment. They have a lot more advantages than you can possibly imagine so it will be a cold day in hell to think you can outprice them. They will make sure of that.

How's your little ass going to compete against that?

Only cuckservatives want free market
Protectionism keeps industry in your nation instead of going to shitholes like China

Reasonable regulation prevents companies from poisoning water etc for the sake of profit

I still don't get the trick. So what if they're optimized and shit? Their prices are high. I can sell my stuff for its prime cost (maybe a bit more) and fuck them a little.

So what?
It's market regulates itself.

Sorry i was too busy having a life. Do you feel good on "shutting someone up" over the internet?
And yes, I'm arab.

Atleast we have pride in not letting our countries get degenerated by filthy jews. Atleast not publicly.

But to be honest, our rulers are the same.

> I'm arab.

priceless

>ut it would hopefully have set their economy on the right track
But user, we already established that it will be a good time before china or other 'producing' countries will catch up with the standard of the US or EU. Meanwhile you still need a solution to fix this right? You can't put wages at the current level of china or india so you don't have any other option than to divert your industry to something they don't do better. For someone believing in open market you sure are illiterate on the concepts of competition.

Plus, let's say for some magical reason everyone accepts a setback of 10 years in buying power. Let the banks crash. What the fuck makes you think that the US can change their whole industry in a one night to a producing one? (even if we forget that they can't compete wage wise) These things take years, heck decennia to change. People can't suddenly change their education. A bank worker can't suddenly become a metal worker. Believe it or not but that shit also takes skill. And there wouldn't be enough vacancies nor companies for all those service industry people to get a manufacturing job.

SO what would you suggest then? The governement subsidizing or starting manufacturing companies? That sounds really close to communism doesn't it?

You're doing it wrong Norway. What you're doing is pushing down your ally in the jew-war.

Ever wondered how norway became so degenerate? Ever wonder why the immigrants who make it to Europe are mostly degenerate filth?

Fucking norway wake up. Once you stop supporting (((them))), most of us will pack our shit and go.

A corporation that large could sacrifice profits in that region long enough to undercut you until you're out of business.

Because you can live on air only right. You don't need a house, buy food and shit. That's ignoring the costs to run your bussiness, which would be higher than big corp looking at costs per unit.

Shit needs regulation or else shlomo gangs up with 20 other corporations to fuck you in the ass.

> in that region
Who said i'm alone?

I don't get it again. You mean corp would attack me personally?

"Shut you up did it"

Norway. I have no hard feelings towards your country. But i will not cuck myself as whites are brainwashed to do, those who do wrong are to be held accountable as individuals.

>but muh islam

Islam is a meme in the middle-east. Those who come here are brainwashed idiots or real refugees from a war you support with your tax-money.

Fucking get out of NATO.

>"psst im muslim im your friend"
no
kebab is enemy
kebab is evil
everyone agrees kebab is evil

gtfo kebab scum, fuck of back to mudslimestan and get stoned to death for farting or whatever retarded shit your suicide bombing, women-raping shitpeople do

well, it changed pretty fast for the US throughout the 80s, and suddenly bankers went from being these normal people, to all being these rich bastards

but no i dont have a suggestion or an answer. i created this thread so that someone could teach me something, and you are giving exactly what i wanted, which is people explaining me shit. thanks for doing that and not just shitposting like these other retards

i still get the strong impression that an even bigger crash is looming for the US, and it will be far more devastating than it would have been 10 years ago. Iceland managed to land on their feet (ish), somehow

Fairly sure he talks about Norwegians

As i said, Islam is a meme amongst true arabs. Those you see are the redneck-equivalent version of arabs.
Do you really think the war against jews will be a religious one?
Who the fuck cares about religion? Do you honestly think Israel gives a fuck about judaism?

You're one braindead motherfucker. Too bad, you've got alot of nice beautiful land, albeit cold and dark in the winter. Enjoy being a good goyim.

> monopolies aren't the product of government favoritism.

YOU HAVE BEEN VISITED BY THE ISLAMIC TRUCK OF TOLERANCE

|______________ ¶ ___

|religion of peace ||l “”|””\ __ , _

|___________________||||||]

(@)@)*********(@)(@)(@)

fuck the jews, yes, but ive never seen videos of them killing my people & saying theyre gonna eradicate me & my values

>So I'm 100% sold on the open market. No government regulation

Right there. Stop, and post ancap memes. Any of you that actually engaged this fucktard in any other way just lost.