What is exactly wrong with "to each based on his abilities to each based on his needs"?

What is exactly wrong with "to each based on his abilities to each based on his needs"?

everyone thinks they need more.
those who can produce more don't want to subsidize a bunch of lazy and/or stupid faggots

lack of strong incentive and stagnation.

Who determines what my needs are? Why should my needs and lack of ability give me a claim to any of your property? What incentive do you have to work if I'm the one that benefits the most from your labor?

this implies slavery

Because doctors shouldn't have the same pay and living conditions as a fast food worker or pump jockey. If you save lives, you should be able to drive a nice car or live in a nice house. Nice try bernie

Doesn't work as a functional economic model. Central planning of the economy, even at the most local of levels, is infinitely less efficient then markets and prices. Creates surpluses and shortages of necessary products.

Also this.

People are greedy fucks and want more than just the bare necessities.

also centrally planned economies fail miserably because there are too many factors involved in the economy for any government to effectively manage.

You and I are friends now.

It doesn't refute the virtue of charity nor the idea of private ownership.

Because those with good abilities are slaves to the lazy people who pretend to be and/or are retarded.

What If I produce more than I need? Will you try to take it from me? What if I refuse to part with it?

They guy determining who gets what invariably gives himself everything he wants until he's overstuffed, and then gives what's left to his friends and buddies, and then the scraps of what's left go to the lower class.

Marx didn't think it would happen this way under communism.

But it did. People are greedy. If they can hoard it all, they hoard it all and fuck everyone else.

Communism doesn't work for mankind. We need something else.

awesome

this


Hard work should be rewarded, of course, and our current corporatist system largely fails at that, but Communism is just straight up retarded. In that, no work is rewarded--think welfare-leeching niggers, but on a national scale .

>those who can produce
like faggots who inherited a bunch of money ever made anything

typical corporate asslickers pretending every rich douchebag is steve jobs instead of a bush or a walton

ill-defined and unenforceable without a horrible police state

because stupid people don't deserve the same shit that smart people have.

Because those whose work is most valuable have all the clout to afford a nicer life.
Not to mention that what people 'need' is often an incredibly shit life and some people wish for more.

In particular, those with the greatest and most valuable work to do oft also wish for greater things from life in return.

You are not entitled to the fruits of other peoples labor

>based on his needs

How much does he need?

the needs and hungry mouths vastly outweigh the few's ability to produce

needs are easy

Ability is hard

Way to butcher the quote. Whats wrong is that the strong shouldnt be expected to tow the weak.

That's what I tell my boss, but he doesn't give a shit.

Time for a strike.

Ford, Johnson & Johnson, and many other successfull fortune 500 companies are run in part by legacy trustfund babies.

>implying malthus has any relevance in 2017
>implying the inability to provide everyone's needs reflects anything other than political failure
fucking industrializations, how do they work?

WELL IF THEY DIDNT FUCK THE SHOP UP THEY CLEARLY DESERVE TO BE PAID 20000 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE WORKER

Who decides the needs?

the needs surpases the abilities, creayes no incentive for work so it creats poverty

I find that people who want communism seem to think they will be in the ruling "intellectual" class, and not sent to the gulag.

>WELL IF THEY DIDNT FUCK THE SHOP UP THEY CLEARLY DESERVE TO BE PAID 20000 TIMES THEIR AVERAGE WORKER
That is the right of the owners and board of directors to determine, not something deseved.

spoken like a true corporate asslicker

protip: they're all on each other's boards of directors, giving each other absurd salaries

Seriously, how cucked are you?

Is he paying you for your labor?

I think communism is supposed to be voluntary and small-scale. People/Villages would join you because you set a good example and so on *sniff*.

The "to" part

Sure, give what is your right to give, but don't use the collective force of government to take from me to give to whomever youd like

Just enough to keep my car running :^)

Seriously faggots, stop acting like anyone gets paid what they "deserve". The iron law of wages IS a thing for most people, people at the top game the system, and there's an ever-shrinking middle ground that's being intentionally strangled.

If you're too cucked to be honest about what's going on you don't deserve to call yourself an American. Period.

>spoken like a true corporate asslicker
spoken like a true commie pinko

>protip: they're all on each other's boards of directors, giving each other absurd salaries
Its their money, they can hire whoever they want.

>Seriously, how cucked are you?
Says the person who wants to give poor and generally worthless people the authority to take working people's money in the spirit of fairness.

It's "from each based on his abilities"

And what's wrong with it is that maybe I think Jenkins isn't working as hard as he could or as hard as I am, so I work a little less. The pay is the same either way. Then that fuck Smedley thinks I'm not working as much as I should so he slacks off. Then Flanders decides he's sick of taking up the slack and works less as well. Perrry so no one is doing shit. All while our more equal paery are smoking imported cigarettes that we could never afford.

That's what's wrong with it.

>Says the person who wants to give poor and generally worthless people the authority to take working people's money in the spirit of fairness.
Nice strawman, asslicker.

I bed you'd let your boss rape your daughter, you're suck a pathetic serf

It denies the worker the fruit of his labor.

From each as they choose, to each as they are chosen

Where do you work, or atleast a what kind of job?

>strawman

>muh average worker

>pathetic serf
This coming from the guy who wants other people to control who they could hire and how much they can spend if they ever could built a business worth anything.

>strawmanning my point

So you are being compensated for your labor. your employer is paying you for your time and labor you have very little grounds to bitch. This is because you both agreed upon how much money your time and labor is worth.

You're either a shit negotiator for your own personal value for your labor or are being paid for your labor at a low rate because very little skill is needed to conduct your labor.

Your solutions are as follows 1) stop bitching and suck it up 2) ask for a promotion 3) apply elsewhere were the compensation for your skilled labor is better 4) manage your time better and get a loan or grant to acquire a new skill that is more valuable than your current level

It doesn't even work in a small scale. One guy will think he's a "great leader" doesn't do any work or take any risk.

Asking people to devote 100% of their total potential contribution to society in order to get 100% of everything they personally need is a net loss.

See Collapse of the Soviet Union.

office shit.

Let me tell you, the iron law of wages applies at all different levels, it's just that different jobs have different minimum levels of pay. You have to pay an office worker more than a physical worker or they can't do their job. But the iron law still applies.

>This coming from the guy who wants
Do you not understand what a strawman is you asslicking serf?

Keep making excuses for the boot on your neck, you're a real friend of freedom.

>This is because you both agreed upon how much money your time and labor is worth.
No, I needed a job and I took what I could get.

What part of wage-slavery don't you understand, asslicker?

>Your solutions are as follows
Oddly missing from your list are forming a union, going on strike, or doing anything to reclaim power from our "benevolent" corporate overlords.

KEK

>>implying malthus has any relevance in 2017

He does.

>>implying the inability to provide everyone's needs reflects anything other than political failure

It represents reality and no amount of violent political imposition or mass slaughter can reduce scarcity. You want to murder your way to a free lunch because you're an insane communist lunatic.

>You have to pay an office worker more than a physical worker or they can't do their job

Are you mentally ill? Someone doing physical labor can actually permanently injury themselves. True office work is needed but if you push to hard you end up like the group of office ladies who demanded the same wages as miners. Your job is shipped to India for cheaper and you're told to show up at the same time as the miners because congratulations you got a raise but you're a miner now.

Did you get a degree? Do you have any marketable skills? What led to this situation you're in?

Its still your opinion, though, just because your stupid opinion is easy to dismiss doesn't mean my examination of it is a strawman.

>No, I needed a job and I took what I could get.
No you don't you could learn a skill and provide a service, you don't have to work a job for someone else who organizes the supply and demand for you.

Not that I don't agree with you but Steve Jobs is a fucking hack. An idea-guy with no skills. Wozniak made everything.

I have no abilities whatsoever because I'm a lazy NEET and I need a Ferrari.

So I am correct that you agreed with me.

"I needed a job and I took what I could get."

You decided that your labor wasn't worth negotiating and agreed to the terms of your employer.

So you are at low skilled labor that is easily replicable.

So you wish to "form a union."

That is fine as well. Your employer does not have to agree to the terms of the union and you can "strike" all you wish. If it is a small union between your fell workers and your employer, your strike will leave you jobless and unemployed and you are right back as square one of "need a job." As you've now been counter productive to your own ends of needs.

If you join a union like say "Teamsters" or "Ironworkers of America" you'd be compensated for your strike but it is at roughly 85% of your paycheck and only lasts so long and if your employer can find new labor well again, you're SoL and being counter productive to your own ends.

As user pointed out hereYou're also demonstrating a lack of incentive to improve your current position of skill to attain a better career path and position on the economic ladder. So you're settling for mediocrity rather than pushing for comfy sustainable living.

"doing anything to reclaim power from our "benevolent" corporate overlords."

When did I ever say you didn't have power?

>reality
Let me clarify: we can easily meet everyone's basic material needs through technology. Decent housing, food, medical care, transportation, internet, etc. Any country that can't is just a failed state.

Environmental damage is arguably a malthusian concern, though I consider externalities of production different than just not being able to produce enough and having people starve and die of the flu. Indeed, most environmental problems are manageable via policy or substituting to an alternative technology.

I'm not sure what you mean. A person just needs enough food to do physical labor, but to do office work they need to be able to think at a basic level, they also need to be presentable and whatnot. So you have to pay an office worker more.

Similarly, you have to pay a salesman more than an office worker, or he'll feel like a loser and nobody will want to buy from him. You really have to get into the realm of highly technical skills for a persons wage to actually represent some sort of fair market equilibrium

>Did you get a degree? Do you have any marketable skills? What led to this situation you're in?
Too many degrees. Corporate people want corporate people. Too much curiosity or ambition is a red flag. You'll understand this when you actually have to get a job.

>No you don't
Yeah thanks retard. Fuck food and shelter, amirite?

They tried that once.
It ended with kool-aid poisoning.

to each based on his abilities implies they dont steal from what you've earned

>Yeah thanks retard. Fuck food and shelter, amirite?
>retard
Ironic label for someone who can't read a full sentence to throw around.

Many people learn skills and have great homes and food without your broken cuck mentality by learning a real skill and applying it themselves without needed someone else to organize their labor and provide a supply of people with service demands.

MARX = A JEW CUNT WHO NEVER HAD A JOB, SPONGED OFF HIS PARENTS AND FRIENDS UNTIL HE BLED THEM DRY, WAS AN ALCOHOLIC FAGGOT, HAD AN INDENTURED SERVANT HE RAPED AND NEVER PAYED......WAS WRONg ABOUT CAPITALISM......YEA, WHAT A GREAT EXAMPLE OF SOCIAL EQUALITY. FUCKING LOSER FAGGOT. TRULY CRINGE WORTHY.

Thanks for not disagreeing with me

eh, the kibbutzim in Israel actually did OK.

Well, communism was always "meant" for Germany, in marx's mind

>You decided that your labor wasn't worth negotiating and agreed to the terms of your employer.
Please, if I had a realistic chance of increasing my wage by negotiating I would've. It isn't that kind of job.

>When did I ever say you didn't have power?
Your "suggestions" were all about "self-improvement" and none were about changing a society that systematically exploits the working man and redistributes wealth upwards.

Two things I'd like to see are 100% estate tax and jobs programs. Then we'd start to have some fairness and workers would have some bargaining power.

Yeah, why don't I start a business while working 50 hours a week? Easy peasy!

Your insight is truly amazing, asslicker.

>Yeah, why don't I start a business while working 50 hours a week? Easy peasy!
So now its society's fault that you wasted your youth being unproductive and ignorant, why didn't you learn a marketable skill before you graduated high school like most successful people who get paid to go to college?

>I have nothing to offer
>why am I not getting more
You do realize in a commie society you would be put to work on the land and die the next week. No ism can change the fact you are not a usefull asset to society

>you have to pay a salesman more than an office worker, or he'll feel like a loser and nobody will want to buy from him
>why don't I start a business while working 50 hours a week?
>if I had a realistic chance of increasing my wage by negotiating I would've
thanks for the laughs m8
fucking comedy gold
>this is actually what commiecucks unironically believe

i want more than that and I don't feel like working hard for the benefit of others.

>why didn't you learn a marketable skill
I have plenty of marketable skills. And I'm not some ancap NEET arguing for wage-slavery from his parents' basement.

It takes more than just being able to do the job to actually get the job. You'll understand this once your parents kick you out.

At least I wouldn't be a thug, you conformist eurotrash

Sounds like your average millennial.

>I'm not sure what you mean. A person just needs enough food to do physical labor, but to do office work they need to be able to think at a basic level, they also need to be presentable and whatnot. So you have to pay an office worker more.

I'm a mechanic which involves physical labor, and before that I made truck stacks and parts of the exhaust. Both jobs require physical labor, thinking and a mechanical aptitude so that's a moot point and doesn't refute the fact that if you don't bring a certain level of skills your job is easily shipped to a call center.

>Too many degrees. Corporate people want corporate people. Too much curiosity or ambition is a red flag. You'll understand this when you actually have to get a job.

Considering I've had several and my latest one uses the degree I went school for I'm going to say false.

I was curious but now I see you're either a troll or actually mentally ill, I'm going to bed since I need to get up and turn wrenches for a living. Before you throw any jab about it yes I do actually enjoy my job and get payed a decent wage for someone with little experience in the field. Either way good luck sticking to that idea of yours and thinking it'll help your arguments gain any sort of traction.

Have you ever worked a piece of land? You will go personally go lick rockefellers pooper to get your retail job back

>It takes more than just being able to do the job to actually get the job.
I wouldn't know about all your ignorant cuck struggles, as a contractor, I have to turn most little jobs down because the neighbors all constantly beg me to fix all the minor shit they are too afraid to touch or use the expensive tools I have that they don't want to buy.

>Two things I'd like to see are 100% estate tax and jobs programs.

>100% estate tax

No one would ever own property at all then from apartment complexes to housing. You've just made yourself homeless GG.

>Jobs Programs

There are state, federal, and local jobs programs as well as private and union sponsored programs. Why are you trying to reinvent the wheel when it's already there and working efficiently?

>It isn't that kind of job.

Then why are you ignoring completely the other options I placed on the table? if trying to improve your own self value to an employer by acquiring new skills, you increase the ability to negotiate your wage/salary that you are being paid?

You seem to be implying that you are not worth investing in.

literally nothing at all

He had famously poor personal hygiene.
I wonder if there are more bugs climbing through his beard than there are climbing through his head.

google the following:
tragedy of the commons,
economic calculation problem

Yes, there is something wrong with that.
You cannot objectively measure need.

You pretend to laugh, but I can tell you're distressed.

Perhaps these repetitive numerals will soothe you?

You don't know, and you're off point.

I've done some gardening. I've also driven large vehicles, which is what I understand most of modern farming to be.

>I wouldn't know
Finally said something true

>No one would ever own property at all
Sure.

>There are
No, I mean real jobs programs, to end employment monopsony.

I always get the post after.

nope. Well I'm already up way past my bedtime...

I have been saying I can't understand your cucked mindset for a while now.

yeah they don't give a shit about ideology they just want to be shot callers. a fair amount of Gestapo had an easy time making the switch to Stasi after the Nazis were defeated

It is impossible to have 0% employment.

>the rich will just take the tax hike up the ass and not respond

Apparently you do not understand incentive and disincentive.

It's weaning, which is psychologically damaging; it defies hierarchical human nature; it consolidates far too much power in one institution; "abilities" and "needs" are organic and arbitrary, which only a free private sector can properly facilitate.

kys kid, don't come to this board unless you're over 23

>"to each based on his abilities to each based on his needs"?

Because the state dictates both what your abilities and needs are.

Next question?

Human nature.

If a person can't be rewarded for his efforts, he is going to do the bare minimum to get by, as he has no motivation to do more.

The Pilgrims found this out directly when they first settled America. They formed a commune, where the community owned everything--- land, houses, EVERYTHING. Then they apportioned out what the community had to the members of the community according to need.

Half of those people starved to death that first winter, and the remainder had to eat the bodies of the dead to survive. Why? Because no man and no woman was willing to bust their ass growing food when they didn't get a larger share of the product. Working harder than necessary was for chumps, and they quickly stopped doing that.

After that horrible first winter, the pilgrims said "fuck this shit", and gave to each person a plot of land to do whatever they wanted with it, and whatever they did, was theirs and theirs alone. This gave them a huge boon in trade products and food. So much trade products that they paid off their loans to their financial backers that year. So much food that they couldn't possibly preserve it all nor eat it all. So they invited over their neighboring indian tribe, and held a "Thanks Giving" feast and party. This was the first Thanksgiving that is always talked about in America.

While rich kids should learn to work hard in order to enjoy the fruits of their labor, one aspect of the incentive to become rich is to ease the processes of life for your children. The idea of inheritance is a deserved virtue of the rich.

>muh central planning
>muh markets

Okay, how about you give me one good argument against market socialism instead of tired cliches?

Fuck off Tito you reformist bastard

>fucking industrializations, how do they work?
Well memed, comrade cocksucker. Now please fuck off back to plebbit.