For the most of history humanity didn't use prisons in modern sense. The idea appeared around 18th century.
I think it's an inherently leftist idea. The argument for prisons is that criminals can be "resocialized". But this is rarely succesful and the whole society has to pay for it.
For serious crimes there should be a death penalty.
Corporal punishment is good for moderate crimes.
Petty crimes should be punished with fines.
What's Sup Forums opinion and why do we need prisons at all?
I believe men wanted the capital punishment for violent sexual assault (rape) but women voted it down (America). So once again blame women
>1st degree murder
>rape
>child molestation
death penalty
>drugs, buying/possession w/o intent to sell
>drugs, selling small scale
community service or something related
>drugs, selling large scale
not sure here, death is harsh, but comm service is too easy
>non-sexual assault causing non-life threatening injuries
probably a fine for the property it occurred on, comm service, maybe they get some kind of oversight like parole
anons add or suggest?
Anyone who ever experienced at least one year of relative sedentary life (even if you are somewhat occupied, like a college student) knows that extreme forms of isolation are fucking torture.
Being in jail a few years is surely a lot worse than taking a few lashes in the back.
>Being in jail a few years is surely a lot worse than taking a few lashes in the back.
Many countries (Poland included) put people in prisons for petty shit.
I'd take lashes before prison myself.
Also, the bad thing about prisons is that people experience it differently. For a professional criminal it's like a vacation while for ordinary folks it's a torture or maybe even a death sentence.
Death penalty for rape is a bad idea since anything can be considered a "rape" nowadays and everyone can be accused of it.
I believe coropral punishment and a serious compensation should be enough for an ordinary rape unless. Gang rapes and rapes that involve some major violence should probably be punished with death.
>aggravated sexual assault
There I clarified.
Sure and when you get out you're just as fucked, if not more, than you went in
What are dungeons?
I wouldn't say the primary purpose of prisons is to rehabilitate and resocialize, but to remove scumbags from decent society for awhile.
Dungeons weren't really used as prisons in the modern sense as for the most part people were put there before the trial so they wouldn't escape.
So it was not a punishment. The only thing dungeon had in common with prison is that is isolated a person.
Precisely the reason why prisons are counter-productive.
That's indeed how it ended. But the idea was to resocialize.
Anyway if someone is such a scumbag that he has to be isolated why not just kill him instead?
It was a puritan idea. Solitude would give you time to reflect on how shitty your soul is and give you time to pray your way back into gods good graces.
Also disposable income. We have enough now to lock up millions but back then we didn't. Justice had to be short and swift. People barely had enough food for themselves, let alone millions of inmates, guards, nurses, social workers, parole officers, ect.
And its still that way today. Just look at the Philippines. I'm sure if they had as much money as America, they could just lock up all their druggies like we do. But they don't. So they kill them instead.
But there still needs to be punishment, and it is certainly a challenge to organize supervision for criminals assigned comm service or some other productive work for society
Communal service is not very effective anyway. Compensations were a great idea, though. Not only do they punish the offender but they also help the victim.
Rape isn't some magical form of violence that should be punished harsher than any other form of violence where the victim is left without any serious injury.
might be different in a society where women weren't complete whores jumping from dick to dick since the age of 12.
inb4 muhhh emotional scars
Are you insane death penalty for rape? There was nearly no rape in most western european countries before the demographic shift and most of the suspected rape cases could be shown to be made up or possibly made up. Which female sticks to the truth, i would assume few i know do, if any and those i know are mostly upper middel class.
For some the dungeon was the punishment where they had to starve and wouldn't get light for a long time before comeing out again or the guy who didn't like you and could catch you would simply let you disapear in the dungeon for pretty much forever or for your hole live.
Why is rape even so high in priority. I know it's psychologically traumatizing and should be punished, but man it's "just" sex against your will, get over it.
I just did 60 days in jail for "domestic violence" because I grabbed my girlfriend by the arm. So yeah, something is wrong with our penal system.
psychologically traumatizing - there you got it.
What i bitch and what joke this law system is. Likley the needed a fucking white male in the statistics of domestic abuse.
I hope she isn't your girlfriend anymore.
>Let me leave out the rest of my criminal history to make a point
Not a chance in hell it was your first or even second offense
well, there is a thing called human rights. being bodily unharmed is one of the rights. the imprisonment is the least invasive way, yet punishing enough.
concerning death penalty: all judgements are made by humans, which err. in addition not all facts can be known. it is therefore likely that innocent people get killed by the state, making all society murderers.
death for rape/murder/treason
corporal for the inbetween.
public shaming for little stuff. shoplifting and whatnot. good ol chained to a block in town square and tomatoed.
The reason England stopped using the death penalty for all crimes was to prevent less serious crimes from getting out of control. For example, if you're a burglar and going to get the death penalty, you're more likely to kill an innocent during the act since it's the same penalty for both crimes.
Wrong males where killed all the time in ancient times and often the winner took the female as sex slave and they mostly could deal with the trauma. The strong insentives against rape are there in monogam societys to ensure the men is investing in his own children and to prevent different families from klling each other in family feuds, because of stuff like this.
So it's a human right to not be lashed but it's not a human right to be free?
Considering errors, being punished with death by mistake is just as bad as being put in prison for life by mistake. And how many cases there are where people who were sentenced for life were sentenced by mistake and it was proved? Not many.
This is why we need minor punishments like corporal punishments, fines and compensations as well.
Of course death penalty for everything is bullshit.
Prisons as an idea are fine, but every single prisoner should be working to contribute to society in some way, no work no eat. My taxes dollars shouldn't provide them with anything if they aren't contributing somewhere.
If there is any idle time, then the prison is failing
My first offense of my life. Her mother called the prosecutor and demanded maximum sentencing. And I am a white male.
>Her mother called the prosecutor and demanded maximum sentencing
You're lying.
I hear this argument often and it's fine in theory but what impact would it have on economy? If prisoners were producing stuff for free it could be damaging to local business.
Probably still a better idea than letting them live for free, though.
I kinda agree
All research has shown we can detect criminal tendencies with 99% accuracy from age 3
Combine this with the fact that empathy is a purely biological trait, we have a conclusion
Bad people are born bad and won't stop unless they're afraid or dead
In america the number of wrongly executed criminals is assumed to be between four and twenty five percent, depending how you count for example people who where to dump to understand what they where doing or just people who could be proven completly innocent.
Nope.
^^were
Yup
sit down, sonny;
your old ma's got a story for ya...
Any stories of real rape or forced humiliation or feminization? I am straight but hearing about a young scared guy being forced to be a woman and humiliated gets me diamonds.
Typical tradcuck mangina white-knight attitude.
"PROTECT TEH WIMMINZ and kill the EVUL MALEZ because none of em are as ALPHA as I AM"
Fuck off and die
Was in Russian prison for 5 days for hanging outside stoned
>terrible looking holocaust-tier skinny ass people, all alcoholics/hard drugs addicts
>everyone is smoking disgusting cheap cigarettes that don't even taste like tobacco
>the police is taking out meat out of your lunch before your very eyes because they need it for themselves
AMA
You'd still run into the same problem. If rape and murder both garner the death penalty, many more rapists are just gonna kill their victim after. Not to mention that the death penalty is much more expensive to carry out (at least in America) than life imprisonment.
rape is a crime made up by feminists. Nothing wrong with giving sluts what they're asking for.
K
If you think about it. Death penalty is a 100% guaranteed way to get rid of crimes.
Prisons are mainly just a waste of time. They have no effect at all.
Are you speaking English?
>>rape
>>child molestation
>death penalty
Both are crimes against property so should be settled with fine
Basically this.
Our white night probably has zero experience with American women. Especially in a Commonwealth state.
I know of confirmed cases from Britian, which hasn't a extremly different legal system compared to the Us, that are even a bit more extrem. I know this sounds insane, especially because maybe 60 years ago spanking your female was considered an act of love by nearly every western european court, but this story could very well be true.
>If rape and murder both garner the death penalty, many more rapists are just gonna kill their victim after
I agree. Which is one of the reasons why ordinary rape shouldn't be punished by death.
A big compensation for a victim is good enough as she/he will at least somehow benefit from the crime. And what benefits are there from prison? None.
Why shouldn't murder result in capital punishment, though? There's not much you can do after murdering a person anyway.
>Not to mention that the death penalty is much more expensive to carry out
That's true but the reason for this is some legal bullshit that could easily be fixed.
This is one of the things where sharia law has us beat
Prison doesn't exist as a punishment in Islam
I honestly don't understand the problem with forced labor. I would actually argue this is more humane than just a normal prison, because if human beings are doing work it will make them feel more productive and have something to focus on.
Our natural drive is to do work so why not put it to use in prisons?
I'm not doubting he got in trouble for what he said, I'm doubting the punishment.
Judges simply don't give out maximum sentences because "her GFS mom said so". Unless he had an autistic fit (likely) in court or had past offences there's literally zero chance he got 60 days
I'm not hundred percent sure it happend like he tells it, but what i would argue there is reasonable chance it did happen, even higher then most would believe. Bad luck, bad lawyer, a highly motivated persecuter and femist judge, just a judge who is reminded of somebody he dosen't like by you etc. The laws have changed in the last decades.
Are you a lawyer? I guarantee they do. I would have probably got a lighter sentence if I could have paid the 3,000 dollar bond and tried fighting the charges. Since I couldn't afford that I just plead guilty to get the sentence over with otherwise I would have had to sit in jail for probably 6 months fighting a charge that doesn't even carry that much jail time.
>Not to mention that the death penalty is much more expensive to carry out (at least in America) than life imprisonment.
>more expensive
yeah no
your prisons are profitable organizations that launder tax money to the owners of said prisons.
only reason death penalty could be more expensive is, if these people have lobbied decades for some incredibly long procedure that needs to take place before one can be killed, so they benefit the most from that as well.
I've been waiting for this thread for a while
The concept of modern prisons originated in the Nineteenth century in England at the same time as all the other modern social programs with the same objective, to perfect the individual and eventually society through state intervention.
It is a materialist form of personal salvation through atonement where the imprisoned spend their time in solitary reflection and meditation like monks in a monastery.
Focoult wrote extensivly about it and how Bentham influenced this concept of the early prison architecture and leitmotives. I would argue you can trace this system further back, then focoult did.
America disagrees with this so called theory...we believe the mass production of giganiggas is the best route.
It wouldn't fully suscribe to the notion it was a form of only material salvation, on the one hand there is this material aim to transforme the prisoners into good citzens and contained in it a spiritual believe in a kind of behavioristic concept of humans, which are entirly or at least to great parts formed by society and enviourment, on the other hand i think there is a will to arrive at some kind of utopia.
You are really stupid if u think bringing back that kind of punishment fits in with current "laws" on the books.
A crime needs a victim. There must be some kind of financial or physical harm done.
So all drug crimes are insta-deleted using the proper form of common law.
The same people who flooded china with heroin (political powers and family dynasties) still sell "hard" drugs to people today. They simply monopolized the market. Any competitors are jailed now and people think it's morally wrong to take "drugs" whiling getting dosed with "medicine" which is chemically identical.
Regulating what people put in their bodies is akin to thought crime. The stigma of drug use is far worse than the actual negative physical or mental effects they cause.
Yes, I think those two interpretations are both correct and compatible with each other; the progressives utopia is material.