Was carthage on same level as rome?

Was carthage on same level as rome?

Other urls found in this thread:

thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-mysterious-etruscans.html
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

No

Are we still speaking about Carthage today?

Nop.

No. And Hannibal was a retard. A tough retard, but a retard.

Was bigger than rome at the time but the Romans shit kicked them. Cause SPQR.

They were ground to dust and their women became breeder slaves from Roman Legions.

So no.

Yes, much of Roman culture is stolen from Carthage. They wiped them from history out of insecurity.

reminder that (((carthage))) was entirely populated by semitic people who ended up being sold into slavery after getting btfo'd by romans.

so no, they were never on par with rome

fpbp /thread

By level do you mean they sacrificed a higher level of babies to Moloch? Carthaginians literally burned children alive while Romans considered human sacrifice barbaric

Kek ok

yeah I'm sure the romans were very insecure of wiping this semitic moloch-worshipping tribe out of existence out of all the hundreds others
shame they didn't do the same to the other moloch-worshipping tribe in Iudeea...

They also worshipped Moloch and sacrificed babies. Romans wiped them out because they were so disgusted by their backwards behavior

comparable...until rome pushed their shit in. they were supposedly germanics after all

It was better

Hannibal (a black man) led the charge on Rome and almost took all of Europe.

What's up with Spain and being controlled by Africans?

Not after Rome got done with them.

>t. African president

...

Berbers are Caucasian

>leans into mic
WRONG

Carthage was much more powerful and influential than Rome early on, had way more colonies, money, learning centers in the Mediterranean and was the dominant culture.

Rome ended up beating them out though because Carthage used mercenaries and conscripts instead of an actual army and Rome's culture provided it with a superior, more effective government and military. The Carthaginians were very indecisive, their government was inefficient and acted slowly. Carthage was much more mercantile than Rome and the government was nothing more than an oligarchy. Soldiers didn't really care about anything but getting paid and the leadership was noting like the Romans had too, only exception was Hannibal in the second Carthaginian war and even he was held back by bureaucracy.

He wasn't even Berber. He was of Phoenician stock.

>Yes, much of Roman culture is stolen from Carthage.
I think you mean the Etruscans.

>Not showing their vastly superior trade network.

Gonna need a citation on that.

It was until it lost the 3rd punic war. Well technically lost its paridy after the 2nd but whatever.

No, it lost.

Does anyone give a shit about Carthage? No

Doesn't matter, it still lost to Rome.

Does Rome not matter because it lost to the Germanic tribes now?

>delenda
>est
>cartago

Raredova?

Damage Control: the post

OP asked if Carthage was on the same level as Rome. It wasn't. At it's highest, it lost to Rome. Asking if Rome doesn't matter since the Germanic tribes broke it apart is not an intelligent question. Rome was greater than Carthage ever was at its peak. Just like Rome was greater than Ancient Greece.

Carthaginians were some pretty badass explorers and seamen.

>not using your brain the post
Look at op's question. Carthage < Rome
Can't be equal if you lose multiple wars and eventually your civilization to your enemies.

this is actually intriguing. The war between Carthage and Rome implies that ideology and moral are more important to winning a war than guns and money.

Just look at how long the Jihadis have lasted.

Good, accurate post. Carthage simply couldn't compete with the determination, efficiency, and militarism of rome. It was the first great conflict between the aryan and the semite, and the semite got BTFO

no, not after their fleet was destroyed

No.

THEY WUZ

It was, just not militarily. If you were an ancient person living right before the second punic war or any time before that you'd most certainly want to live in Carthage compared to Rome unless perhaps you were a Latin citizen who actually lived in the city limits. Just because the Romans had developed a culture that produced a greater military advantage does not mean Carthage was not on the same level as Rome when for many years it was a much more influential and thriving society

Carthage was pretty cool, they had superior naval technology but lacked the population base of rome so they got fugged in the end.

why didn't they take all three islands completely?

I feel like then they would have three permanent positions to coordinate attacks and defenses

I read a recipe from that era. I am dissapoint.

The Romans viewed the struggle between them and Carthage the same way actually, after Carthage was gone they shifted this image onto the Greeks

>jews fight phonecians in palestine
>Rome destroys their colonies
All as planned, goyim serving great joo with their lives, indeed every breath goy make must be for profit of chosen ones.

Rome would see it as a threat and intervene. Also Syracuse was a bitch to take for any army.

Can't even call the war "the second Punic war" go fuck yourself

Hannibal was a rogue who had his men worship him, had one good battle and then Rome denied him open war because it was all he could do.

Spent 14 years getting turned down by every roman ally because they could read the writing on the wall.

Scipio Africanius rapes Carthage so hard even burgers know how bad it was today.

B-BUT WE WUZ KANGZ

they got wiped out, what do you think

Militaries win civilizations.. You can't have a civilization if lose your conflicts to a better force. Carthage was great, I won't deny this, but it lost. It cannot be equal. An equal in terms of civilization is one that rivals another, and loses its status when it fails to a rival.

There was a bit of a cold war going on between Rome and Carthage in Sicily also as this user said Syracuse was actually very powerful and I think around this time there were still some other somewhat powerful greek influenced city states and native tribes in the southern peninsula of Italy complicating things

I get this joke.

>Trebia
>Trasimene
>Cannae

Sound like more than one battle. His army killed around a fifth of all Romans between the ages of 18 to 50. To Rome he was the boogeyman since every Latin lost a family member to him. He would have won had the Carthaginian senate actually sent him aid instead of constantly undermining his efforts.

It was strong, but its arms had no loyalty and its empire was run poorly. Then Rome came along and was absolutely merciless.

Yes, they waz Roman and shit

Not according to Scipio Africanus, who defeated the vaunted Hannibal on his home soil at Zama, after which the Mediterranean became Mare Nostrum.
The matter was ultimately decided in 149 BC when Carthage was sacked by Rome. The Romans killed 450,000 of its 500,000 inhabitants in street to street fighting, and the remaining 50,000 were taken captive and sold into slavery.
The final score of the Punic Wars was Jupiter 3 - Moloch 0

>Can't even call the war "the second Punic war" go fuck yourself
What are you saying here?

>Hannibal was a rogue who had his men worship him, had one good battle and then Rome denied him open war because it was all he could do.
False he had two major victories at canae and trebia and countless smaller ones

>Spent 14 years getting turned down by every roman ally because they could read the writing on the wall.
False, he found plenty of allies in southern Gaul and when he entered the Roman peninsula he even got the Samnites to join him which was a major blow to the Romans considering they had been under their control for over half a century and they believed them to be a loyal ally

>Scipio Africanius rapes Carthage so hard even burgers know how bad it was today.
true

No Rome lost 1/5 of its men at cannae alone. They had romans waiting 8 hours to die, they had those who fled with their legs cut because there were so many romans to kill they had to prioritize.

The reason why we all revere Hannibal is because the Roman Empire lasted so long that descendants would embellish history to gain political favours. Romans didn't weigh their accomplishments on how good they were as much as how scary their opponent was. This is why Roman historians cream their pants over Hannibal, some historians were paid to lie two centuries later. These are the same historians who claim the romans fought 500,000 barbarians at once when we know today that insane and laughable.

The issue with Carthage was that it wasn't a proper empire, it didn't have an actual military like Rome did, the vast majority of its soldiers were mercenaries which resulted in a huge conflict when some of those mercenaries rose up. Even had Carthage won the Punic wars it is highly doubtful that they could have formed and sustained an empire on the scale of Rome.

So.... it wasn't on the same level as Rome then??

At the time, yeah. Carthage was, even, for a time, bigger than Rome.

Rome literally upgraded its navy like fuck just to compete with Carthage, the harbor OF Carthage was one of the greatest of the time and their navy was unrivaled, until Rome purposefully set out TO rival it.

Carthage had the best navy in the world at the time. Their lifestyle influenced much of the Mediterranean.

dat wall

What the fuck? Rome controlled most of Europe at one point, and then existed for another 1300 years until it finally died completely. Carthage controlled that area in the pic, barely contributed to technology compared to Rome, had an insignificant impact on culture and was crushed fairly quickly.

It definitely wasn't.

Of course it wasn't but it was one of the greatest threats Rome ever faced. That's why it's to be admired because while this David didn't kill Goliath, it managed to hurt him.

>Berbers are Caucasian
That's wrong and he's Phoenician

That's from a 1970s Budweiser ad campaign, just so everyone knows. They were trying to court black customers and the "King of Beers" used black "kings" (not making this up) to advertise. They had to make up most of the black kings, obviously.

That's not even true. They were as different as Sparta and Athens. Similar ethnically, cultural opposites.

thegreatcourses.com/courses/the-mysterious-etruscans.html

It was a democracy, Rome was n oligarchy. So, in that way, it was better than Rome.

Until the Third Punic War, Rome was David.

Why did no one ever move back to Carthage?

Rome literally burned it down.

They were fucking pissed it took them so long to actually get into the city, they'd sieged it for years.

Yes, right now.

kek

At one point it was stronger and wealthier than Rome than Rome, but as time went on Rome got stronger and consolidated power in Italy.

They basically worshipped molech, and where remnants of Phonecian colonies. They where wealthy, but it seems to me the ethnic Punic population must have always been rather small. They practiced child sacrifice, so that may play a part.

After the Romans defeated them they used the word Punic as a derogatory term, much like Jew is used today. Eventually the Romans met up with the Jews and had the same issues we have today with them.

They always had the money to get mercenaries to fight for them, and they seem to have been the largest commercial hub in the western med. They just didnt seem to have the outright numbers.

>I say Hannibal was a retard
>user tells me I'm wrong
>user tells me I'm wrong because Carthage used mercenaries and conscripts instead of an actual army, providing it with a superior and more effective government and military, and that the Carthaginians were indecisive and acted slowly, and on and on...

Really made me think, user. Really made me think.

in the first few turns maybe, but carthage forgot to invest in science funding so rome was able to everwhelm them at the beginning of the mid game

I think you mean greek for fucks sake, as they were founder by greek settlers.

They drove out the Etruscans

FFS at least post a worthy opponent to the glory of Rome

Yup, they controlled the Mediterranean commercial traffic before the Punic Wars.

Romans over the course of the wars outwitted them and threw salt in Carthage.

AVE ROMA

unwashed germanic barbarians.

Carthage wuz kangs nigga, romans was cracka homos fuckin eachother in da butt

(((Phoenician))) literally semites.

Those are glorious proto-iranians ya dingus.

This triggers the roman.

Id say the Roman and Carthaginians actually differed alot in culture race, and religion, and even government. Romans and Carthaginians absolutely hated one another, deeply based on a eternal struggle clandestine fashion. By the time the second Punic war came, Carthaginians hated Romans deeply, and the Romans obviously hated the Carthaginians.

Romans and Greeks fought in the past, but Rome always sought to assimilate them. The Macedonian wars really saw, Greeks and Romans eventually working together to bring down the Macedonian kings. If Rome shared cultures really with anyone besides early Etruscan's and other hill-peoples of Italia, are the Hellenistic Greek cultures.

rare flag

The berbers were and are a related ethnic group of phoenicians. So they would have been pretty similar looking.

Rome salted the fields.

Why did they hate the Carthaginians so much?

Competing over who would be King Dick of the Mediterranean.

couldn't handle the fact that carthaginians wuz kangs

Carthage killed daddy and grandpa.

Yeah they were. At one point they left a port in Egypt, sailing down the Suez Canal, then rounding South Africa, only to come back up the West side, all the way back to Carthage.

Its believed it was they who created the map of Antarctica dated to the 15c, though its believed the map is just different maps put together, so it may be much older.

Carthage got around, with some proof that they might have even made it to the Americas, due to their coins being found, as well as iron age mining dating to B.C., something the natives had no idea how to make, let alone mine.

The Punic wars that ended Carthage was just a retelling of the Peloponnesian Wars, with Sparta(Rome) once again defeating the more advanced city Athens(Carthage).

The Founding Fathers of the U.S. of A had a high opinion of Carthage, and wanted to use it as a reference as a previous Republic, in addition to Rome. Unfortunately, there was not much information available on Carthage aside from what the Romans wrote about them from the Punic Wars.

>digits
holy shiet, we really wuz kangz?

Jesus Christ I wasnt saying they were. I was obliging his request to post an opponent to Rome

Carthaginians were Phonecians, Phoenecians were Celts.