>be me
>NEET
>separated from military earlier this year
>recovered from heart surgery
>still NEET
>depressed
>web & OOP programming skills, have done it since 14
>will not return to school, cannot stand the culture
>red pill and Sup Forums makes lib culture even worse
>fuck normies, but pls employ
what do
Any other IT folks (or any people really) in here who are freelancing successfully in this upswinging economy? How did you start? What would you recommend?
bumb, inderesded as well :-DDDDDD
>will not return to school, cannot stand the culture
This is where you Sup Forums retards don't make sense. 99% of classes don't have any "culture". Just go to school to learn shit, you faggot. I got out of the navy and I have a degret in finance. It fucking rocks. Fuck you
Web dev here.
Actually, almost everyone in software is. The current strategy is to sell logins to websites you own and maintain. This means everyone is in webdev but it's okay only the UI is really web development, you're totally still an engineer if you write backend software.
Anyway, freelance is dicks. It's just as hard as the rest of the industry to get into, except I guess nepotism works more easily if you're young (when connections doesn't actually work). Almost got a few jobs freelancing, but the second they know your situation (newly graduated, NEET) pricing gets dumb, like family owned businesses offering you 20$ for something that'll cost 400$ a year. Just fucked.
Anyway, it's a white collar industry so in most places you'll either need a degree, lots of luck, extreme Jewish levels of nepotism or a beautiful brown vagina.
I recommend the vagina, they're interesting to play with and are self cleaning.
I wouldn't call it successful but, I do web shit on the side and have for a long time in my spare time. If you hit up small businesses with shitty websites and say shit that they'll get increase in people, websites are the new business cards, shit like that they usually eat it up unless they're going broke. I don't really have to walk around or call anyone for jobs anymore it's mostly done by word of mouth. I could probably turn it into a full time thing but, I really hate the work and prefer my real job to work on daily.
just go to school you faggot
stem classes will most likely not be filled with liberal SJW shits
>earlier this year
you mean 2 days ago?
i just got out of chair force early 2016
i was only in for 2 years but i got honorable discharge
but i was actually exactly 1 month away from 2 years so i only get 70% GI bill
use your fucking GI bill you stupid autist
you shouldn't waste that shit it's worth gold and you'll have a more successful life if you have a degree
I dont get this meme.
Just meet up at your classes and go when they are done? Why would you hang around talking to people if you dont like them?
And i assume you are going to be studying some stem shit since you are into programming so you wont talk about shit in class either.
Become an independent contractor.
>Set up LLC
>Market skills at reasonable rates (slightly lower than average salary)
>Grow company
>Find ways to innovate in the market
>Eventually go public or sell out
>Rinse -> Wash ->Repeat
you could also take online classes
which you can also pay for with GI bill
I have read stories before from people who own these tech startups and will employ people with decent portfolios, regardless of schooling, simply because they've proven themselves.
Would you recommend just building a solid portfolio? How would I go about getting that going -- create my own things?
Also, I much prefer to write things closer to OOP so backend is better because I'm not the visually creative type. What types of projects (jQuery, database, WP plugins, simple stuff) would you recommend to get started in regards to the portfolio?
Thanks for the help.
FUK.
Separated in June; it was an ELS, so there were absolutely no benefits.
Most of what is intolerable is the fucking anti-white rhetoric EVERYWHERE, and since I live near Detroit (close to the Muzzy capital of the U.S), the whole campus is very "diverse."
Yeah, I don't do any of that and have done 5k+ website sales. I buy and use templates then charge them monthly hosting. Programming is for suckers like this guy who can't sell shit or talk to people in a business environment.
I do have an ABA (wasted degree), and would probably enjoy doing something like this. Thanks for the idea, it would just be a slow route to extreme time-management skills with being self-employed.
So you're saying just design a template website with some shitty WP and some plugins, contact a local business without a website, and pitch it to them? Not having thought of that before = autism.
>no wonder I'm a fucking NEET
What can you usually sell a finished project for?
should have done what i did and faked ADHD
my commander was too lazy to make me go through a med board so he just gave me an honorable discharge with
>failure to adapt
(i also told them i was depressed and suicidal)
should have done what i did and faked ADHD
my commander was too lazy to make me go through a med board so he just gave me an honorable discharge with
>failure to adapt
(i also told them i was depressed and suicidal)
i just wish they kept me in one month longer
Yep, pretty much. Most of the web templates I buy are around 40-60$ then I add everything they want along the way like their logo, what they want to say, I make them work more than they realize. It's easier if they already have a shitty website from like 1999 then you can literally just copy paste all the shit onto a new page. It's all about finding local businesses in your area, they're usually very friendly and most of them are completely oblivious to the whole social media and website thing but, are very eager to get into it they just never knew how to. It's all in how you sell it to each individual, do a little research before you contact them you might even go into the store and by some shit or talk with the people working there to get a little more information. This doesn't work in corporate businesses but, small business people are chatty and love to talk.
ofc that would require you to stay in for more than 180 days
honeslty though if i could have gotten ELS i would have
my time being an air faggot was a complete waste other than my 70% GI bill
enlisted is shit life and im glad i'm done with it so i can actually do something worthwhile.
to anyone reading this, never enlist unless you have a hard on for being a soldier and you sign up for a combat position in the army
You're so narcissistic that you royally fuck yourself over because your ego cannot stand it. Fucking classic you degenerate fascist loser. Get fucked, fail in life, and become homeless you miserable piece of shit. I'd give anything to see the trainwrecks in your future.
>What can you usually sell a finished project for?
Depends on the client. I've sold a 4 page website to a moving company for $800 + monthly hosting that took me a couple days to setup. I've also recently sold a $1800 + hosting to a private practice doctors clinic. Estimate it by how long it'll take you to do and price it accordingly do some research. I'm more about getting the work than the amount I make so, I'm flexible with pricing. There's some tools you can search for online to give you rough estimates but, again just know the client and how much they want to spend or have to spend.
Teach me your ways senpai, that's not how it is at my college.
>finance
i thought this was a meme degree like business
how do you make money off of this?
I was SIGINT, super gung-ho about doing it.
Found out I had a rare heart condition (never go to fucking med-hold
I'm pretty minimalist desu, so that's quite enough money for me to live off of.
That would actually be ideal to do -- I live on the fringe of Detroit's urban sprawl and there are plenty of small businesses around here.
The only issue I can see is that, well, it's Detroit and it's a shithole, so who knows if people would be willing to spend.
Either way, this will probably be the idea I pursue.
>mfw I'm liking this idea
>diamonds
moar
what happened to your medical discharge?
sounds like they fucked you over
i knew someone who knew a guy who had diabetes before the air force but because there were no medical records of it before the air force they gave him medical discharge and sergeants' pay for disability compensation for the rest of his life
unless that story was made up
Best of luck with it then, if you have any other questions I'll monitor the thread for a bit longer.
anyways you should really take advantage of unemployment insurance
i'm currently geting paid $2k a month and all im doing is applying for jobs that won't hire me once a week
i kinda wish i did this 6 months ago but i let my pride stop me
money>pride
i usually spend it on getting happy endings at cheap chinese massage parlors
pro tip: table showers are worth it
Last questions for you. You said that you sell it to them and then have them pay hosting fees. Do you include things like support fees/admin fees in that price? And if so, how would you convince a normie that any monthly upkeep from you on the site has that value?
Thanks, based user.
>picture of heifer
>dairy section
>kek
True, money>pride, but I have enough of a savings safety net to keep me afloat for some time. I couldn't get disability because I was just starting tech school at the time of the incident.
>go through 8 wks of utter shit
>collapse on 9
>go home
>rekt.jpg
It's hit or miss, basically depends on the business. You have to understand their mindset.
Small business typically care about portfolios and that makes sense when you realise it's the specialists hiring in that scenario since they typically don't use agencies or HR, also they obviously want to hire someone useful.
On the other medium and large business are more likely to have HR or use agencies, which usually conform to a certain culture which makes sense because a significant portion of them are essentially sociology graduates.
In the former case, you become one of them. That's attractive. In the latter case, you become like a stereotype: you're that guy that actually maintains a code repository, and especially if you're white you become nothing more than the stereotype and it's a stereotype that's offensive to people who get fuzzy at the words tolerance and diversity. It's white supremacy. Evil white supremacy! This is not attractive.
I hope this makes sense. It really is hit or miss and highly dependent on who you get on the other end. It's only a small exaggeration of how some of these people feel about white men, especially when they seem good at what they do.
They get histrionic and they get "triggered" and then you've lost the opportunity because of their emotions, there's a reason out of the 100+ places I applied for the 10-20 callbacks were about 15 men. Interesting when the HR/Recruitment industry is 60% women.
That's my advice.
Small companies, good portfolios (jQuery, C#/Java, React, C/asm/obscure shit) and research the company for medium sized growing pains of shitty try hard corporate culture and believe it or not, apply to fewer places. It's not uncommon to get informally black listed for spamming resumes. Apply to ALL places that fit this bill, apply to recruitment places once at most and apply to medium/large places for lulz.
Just my 0.02$ from the guy who thought he was doing shit perfectly.
It's in a maintenance fee. Basically I setup a username and password for them on the wordpress website and tell them they can make any changes to it they want, if they have any problems or want something changed/added I charge them for it. I'm kind of experimental with this kind of thing to keep myself from getting bored but, a simple idea you could use is a monthly hosting fee and give them a certain amount of "free" hours per month where they can email you or call you with any changes or other questions they have about the website. they're usually pretty receptive to that idea sell them on convenience (You won't have to lift a finger just call me and I'll take care of it that kind of stuff) . Also tell them that it costs you money to keep the website hosted and to keep metatagging/search engine optimization going. If you explain to them about how you're going to get them on one of the top search result on google if people search online for their respective business they eat that kind of information up like candy. You might need to study up on that kind of stuff all the information is online. You don't need to go to school for any of it if you can search youtube video and different tutorials online.
You usually offer a monthly and yearly price, then make sure that it's above pricing for hosting, domain, etc.
I don't know who makes their clients arrange hosting, that's a business thing to attempt to keep the hosting. Then you own the data, it's surprisingly easier to work on things you own than you don't own.
I said before I tried freelance, you can be as good as you want but without a source of clients it'll be at best a side thing. Even at prices just over what I could arrange, it was still too expensive for some clients.
Now at my new business my coworker makes the business tens of thousands a week by dicking with a WordPress clone, this is because he has a triple digit source of clients, not just your mate's parents business and the guy up the road.
>WordPress
This will stop working when the millennials are starting businesses.
I wouldn't want any client that didn't need some sort of payment system, that's not something you can always do easily, safely and reliably on WordPress sites, especially when you're handling bank accounts. I'd hate to have to SSH into a bank with PHP, that would break any love I have for programming.
well hey look at it this way
at least you didn't go through 8 weeks of utter shit so you could go through another year and a half of utter shit
i spent most of my military career pulling weeds, picking up cigarette butts, moving furniture and sweeping.
and i was supposed to be weapons maintenance
picking up cigarette butts in -30 is about as shit as it can get my friend
It's a side job I've been doing for a long time millennial's are more likely to inherit a business than start one in this day and age. If they want a store section I create another website and link them together for this reason.
Fellow vet here.
Immediately apply for VA benefits. Maybe check into seeing if the military screwed you out of a medical retirement.
Anyway, get on TDIU (about $2800/month) and SSDI. Work on your scheduler rating and once you reach 100%, get on Chapter 31 Voc Rehab for college or vocation al school. Depending on your location, you'll get a lot of tax free housing allowance ($2500/month in Los Angeles).
Spend your free time doing what you want. If that involves programming, see if you can sell it to a big company for big bucks.
You are a lazy piece of shit. Go join some shitty start up doing front end work and slowly build up your clientele freelancing outside of work. Slowly build up your backend skills, do dev + server admin for steady money and profit. Once you have enough moola start building a server farm so you can rape stupid clients out of their money by maintaining their servers after they pay you out the ass to make some shitty web portal for them
>Found out I had a rare heart condition (unless that story was made up
idk if that guy you knew made it up but I do know that it happens a lot and his story sounds legit.
t.disabled veteran
which makes me wonder why OP couldn't get disability pay but Diabetesfag did
Your first mistake is lacking self worth. You don't enjoy freelancing because you go for low hanging fruit. You don't EVER work with small mom and pop shops. If they aren't billing a $1m+ a year IT ISNT WORTH YOUR TIME. Creating a website that represents their brand is a necessity in this day and age and only a fool will get suckered into working for shit wages. You don't talk the talk so you get smacked. I shit out turds like you for breakfast. You are the type of developer that scrapes bottom of the barrel jobs off for people per hour. Sad!
There's nice homestudies to pick from, I didn't want to be part of the university life so I saved up and paid for a homestudy from England with better quality education than that in my own country.
Moved out in a student flat and looked for a place that didnt really want anyone new but had to pick since its not their building, everyone leaves me alone and I can stick to reading and research.
Your clunky websites do not invite contract renewal when the business changes hands. Besides a few cases, PHP returns from a backend slow. Every call will feel like forever, it's literally an engineering thing to know human reaction time is about 200ms for most things, it's when overseas conversation lag becomes officially intolerable and it's when a UI feels uncomfortable. Even the newest FPM or HHVM interpreters of PHP are still quite a bit slower than what anyone can do in Go, Java or C#.
I'm just saying, anyone who remembers the brief moments of really fast internet is going to expect a decent service if they're paying for it. That means millennials.
WordPress is only popular because it's popular and there's something on the nose about selling the use of an otherwise free content management system. Again, millennials know this and will expect some C#/Java with react which is pretty quickly becoming the norm. Web would be fast again if only ASP and slow SQL dbs die too.
And you seem full of shit. I'm just talking from honest experience, not all of us lie or larp online.
:^}
The military has rules where they can separate someone if they 1) have a congenital condition (many heart problems are) 2) it was discovered so early in the military career that there's almost no chance it was incurred or aggravated during military service, or 3) the person willfully concealed it.
The military, like any employer, tries to screw their employees over. So an E-1 could easily be threatened with court martial for fraudulent enlistment and then administratively separated, not wanting to risk jail. But in Diabetesfag's case, an E-5 (sergeant) has been in long enough to know that he's up against an adversary and has all of his Is dotted and his Ts crossed.
I myself paid a military disability attorney $7K to handle my situation. It paid for itself (in pension) 5 months after I was retired (about a year after I retained the lawyer)
you are innefficient at your job and projecting, go back to work bong. Maybe set some higher aspirations for your life rather than smoking weed and skimming off enough to pay for your flat from web dev. If you can't freelance properly how do you expect to ever run a company full of people?
Have you ever run a business? None of that shit matters unless you have clients and something to sell them.
>military likes to screw their employees over
that would explain why i was waiting for 5 months for my discharge to go through with absolutely no word from anyone and no papers for me to sign
that is until 1 month before my 2 year mark came around
then everything came in at once and i had to get everything done in less than a week
i wonder why they couldn't wait one more month :^)
You didn't answer my fucking questions:
Did you know about it before the military?
-or-
Were there any records of it before you joined?
Eh, you're not entirely wrong I have a lot of small businesses in my area so there it isn't a concern of mine if they don't go to me for a new website after a few years. I'm more interested in the monthly hosting I charge, I still have clients from 5 years ago that went to another developer but, still use me to host and pay me monthly. I also don't exclusively use wordpress, I use other website templates it's just easier to sell wordpress cause most people will at least know the name because, like you said. It's popular.
whoa man just take it easy
wtf are you talking about?
diabetesfag?
or me and my "ADHD"?
Oh shit, I thought you were OP. Sorry.
what if she feels like she was raped... by Bill Clinton?
suddenly SJWs don't care any more
These days a lot of developers can hack a site with react, jQuery and a few favourite libraries about as quickly as you can install WordPress on a remote desktop or ssh session.
The gold is getting something working quickly on a cheap system that feels like an expensive system. You can get a template up quickly but just a little slower and someone with a better backend development skill would also get them a quick database (hint, dictionary/data structures work in a pinch) and have them clicking through pages. Say what you like, but connecting to an sql server from php is slow. Very slow. Having your backend address a data structure or container is fast.
If I were to really freelance, I'd set a deal up with a local VPS place, design extremely low resource Linux systems, probably running mono (no asp) or java, maybe react serverside and have as many domains pointing to as few ip addresses as possible. I've imagined the kind of project I'd enforce if I ran a team.
I've found the worst way to plan something is to "experiment" and muddle through it, if I were to do this I'd do it right, design an idiot proof project design and quickly gain a reputation of cheap, swift websites and services. That's business, when everyone knows you have a good product. Projects or ventures done spontaneously lead to fail so it's no wonder most businesses fail after 5 years, they're just not selling a good service.
Again, sell a lot of good shit to a lot of clients. Fuck your business shit.
How much those happy endings cost?
>connecting to an sql server from php is slow
>uses PHP
>doesn't use MySQL
>uses SQL instead
You really should reconsider your line of work.
usually $40 user
but if you're smart enough you can get them to do it for $20 (which is what they're supposed to do)
So do it. I've made more money than you have on web design as a side job. You have some knowledge yet you still have no idea how to pursue it. I picked it up and started selling learning as I went. Great smug attitude, it's really got you so far in life selling your services. Seriously how can you try justifying yourself to me while I'm actively doing this and making money when you're telling some random user online how you could "make it all work". You're pretty pathetic mate.
>wants to be known as the cheap guy
Like I said before abo, you are underselling yourself because you lack self esteem. If you charge under $80/hr YOU ARE LOSING THE GAME.
also
>php
>MUH MUH LARAVEL
Consider for a moment that you can only afford to charge shit rates because you are using dying technology
Basically you make what I make in a little over a week...
Actually I almost strictly use JavaScript and C# with some C++ here and there.
Here's your (you)
Again, I wouldn't start a business without clients.
what can i say? job market sucks
i can't even get hired for a fedex job pushing boxes because I'm not Mexican enough (see: at all)
im moving out of this crap town though closer to a city soon
hopefully i can find a job
after that im going to college for my computer engineering degree
Wtf are you doing with c# or c++ in web dev nigger? You make shit difficult on yourself
I believe that they may well be attempting to perpetrate a subtle ruse
>will not return to school, cannot stand the culture
Then get an apartment off campus you retard, you were medboarded and/or have the GI Bill right? Find an uncucked college, fuck some stupid college bitches and laugh at them when they cry about their student loans
V8 is actually very new technology, replacing ASP and razor with server side rendering, node js and UIs completely designed in JavaScript is the new norm. Never ask where the props come from since it could be the backend or redux state. These are all pretty common in today's age.
You're about 5 years behind thinking I'm 10 years behind.
Also, supply and demand you cunt. You need to undercut your competitors with something better than them, cheaper and better is a deadly underused combination because it requires knowing shit. I know shit. I know most web developers are shit.
You'd rather pay 400 for a responsive site than 600 for a clunky WordPress template.
C++ was getting v8 bindings to fucking compile, for server side rendering. C# is easy as fuck if you know what you're doing and it does more than just open and close connections really quick.
I let NEET hood hurt so I'd never be tempted to go back. I'd rather be using a skill than watching waste and feeling like a loser whenever I practiced it.
In fact, my dude, I am completely genuine.
Perhaps. Seems like a bunch of larping fiverr niggers spouting off about things they have no clue about
go to school you bluepilled cuck, or you're going to be singing pls emeply all your life
he's a liar
this kek
Business degrees are top tier degrees. What are you talking about?
>look at me doing a whole bunch of pointless shit that has 0 documentation and no practical use for any team or business to use
>but contract me out! I'll undercut the other guy so you can take a risk on my shit tech rather than charging more for current but mainstream practices!
>I'm so relevant!'
Confirmed for lib scum.
You're incredibly naive. A fuck load of businesses don't give a shit how much they pay they let you pick the price and you're wanting to undercut yourself for cheap as fuck? How the fuck do you intend to pay for a building or other employees selling a website for 400 dollars? Why is it so hard to believe you could tell them that your website might be more expensive but, they're getting quality so the price reflects that. All you're saying is setting yourself up to work to death while going more and more broke in the process. I don't know how you can have such an ego while still dream about shitting all over yourself.
V8 isn't well documented because it's changed APIs three times and has a monopoly on running JavaScript fast, but react and most node or c# networking libraries are fairly well documented.
It's just the current technology, everyone writes UIs with react because muh components and no one cares about anything PHP anymore. All backends are node or C#/Java/Go/etc. This is all very easy to use, well documented and performs well. It feels space age compared to what PHP projects look like.
I am describing the mainstream practices. You are behind.
Because aggressive marketing.
Alright, I'm out after this. You're clearly retarded and don't know what the fuck you're talking about.
>Aggressive marketing
>cheap websites
Sounds like you got a real winner there I bet you'll love working yourself to death with long hours for cheap pay and clients who don't give a shit about anything you have to say except the price you're charging.
Have international Networking Qualifications.
Do freelance Web Development Currently. Gotta agree that programming isn't the money maker and managing sites is what makes it. Of course you want to use your programming knowledge to help customize templates etc which is what I do.
I usually use Godaddy as a host and piece together websites then maintain management contracts with my customers. Makes big money in my country where you can charge big money for experience.
Good luck OP
>tfw no qt military to be your girlfriend
Ya good advice Shlomo. Just grab the money, fuck quality and fuck the client if they can't take a joke