How can Capitalism survive the oncoming wave of automation without developing into socialism?

How can Capitalism survive the oncoming wave of automation without developing into socialism?

Banning automation is not a sustainable solution.

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how can you have socialism with no workers you fucking autist

The idea is that basic income will sustain people who are out of work.

This will lead to degeneracy in massive waves.

It is called the government owning all the robots you literally retard.

The demand for physical-labor jobs will decline while the demand for jobs requiring some sort of knowledge of technology will increase drastically, you would simply see a shift. Also, once most current industries are automated, this'll allow for new industries to arise, it will be the same process all over again.

What happens when robots start demanding rights?

If you legitimately believe there will not be a massive net decrease in jobs caused by automation then you are not a very intelligent person. Some more jobs will be created but only a tiny fraction compared to the jobs that are eliminated. The 3.5 million truck drivers in the United States that are made obsolete aren't going to start working as computer programmers.

If robots do everything for you, why do you need an income?

>This will lead to degeneracy in massive waves.
The degeneracy will fix itself over time though. I honestly don't believe that most humans could handle having infinite free time. They'd all die from drugs or suicide.

Work will never go away. Instead you will see a shift of work towards artisanal production (people making things and selling them at a mark up because it is human made instead of machine made).

Massive automation will simply make things incredibly cheap to the point where it would not take much effort on anybody's part to earn enough money to have a reasonable lifestyle. Food stamps will become more pervasive and will be accompanied by clothing stamps, electronics stamps, journey stamps etc.

That is why socialism has always been inevitable from the start of human civilization. Once robots are already doing most jobs it would make more sense for the government to just take ownership over the robots and fulfill peoples basic needs directly at no cost. The government already owns all the land and resources.

>Basic income
>infinite free time
Time to spend my life playing Warhammer

reddit please go, i know your playbook. saying that robots are going to reduce jobs so wahey put these chains on and sign your name into the gulag record book comrade is a shitty idea.

good post

i believe that the technological singularity is going to happen within the next 20 years, leaf. post an argument or fuck off back to r/futurology.

Robots are going to become national socialists once AI becomes a thing anyway

goodbye nogs, chinks and floorshitters! You're clogging up progress!!

This won't work unless we cut down the population, presumably by removing 30 million illegal immigrants.

all the capitalist elite you despise are going to pay for the robots and not use the military bots to get rid of you and kill the remaining few with nanobot kill waves

it's so simple right /r/retarded

Do you really believe that anything but a miniscule portion of the masses of low-IQ people working in low-skill jobs can produce art that people will want to be or uniquely do or provide much of value when competent machines become cheaply available?

Ironically automation may create the impetus needed to create some type of ethnostate. It will happen before efficient full genetic genome-wide engineering becomes a thing, and the massive IQ differences between blacks+mestizos and Whites/East Asians/High Caste Indians will mean that the unbelievably overwhelming majority of blacks and mestizos who are really only suited for low-skill labor become pointless and redundant, whereas there will still be appreciable numbers of whites, Asians, and Indians capable of acquiring skills and moving up the skilled career ladder. This is going to cause massive ethnic conflict and people are going to have to admit that there is a difference at some point between us and develop a solution.

If it takes years of indoctrination (the long march through the institutions) for marxism to try to destroy capitalism, then it's probably better and more stable than marxism.
Multiple marxist societies have existed and they have all resulted in countless deaths and eventual collapse.

>the millions of farmers can't just get another job once these "industrial" factories start up
>the millions of people who do calculations for a living can't just get another job once these "computers" get popular

...

the solution in the short term is to ignore the problem of low IQ people.

the solution in the medium term is to research things like genetic flags that signify higher risks of an early death, diseases, etc and show people that these are normal, and no, we do not have 100% perfect genomes.

the solution in the medium-long term is to mend genetic problems in a small number of cases, and undergo genetic engineering on newborns (you'll see the hypocrisy of liberals show through in this, they'll want it for THEIR kids but noooo, nobody else can have it0

the solution in the long term is to get far off science fiction level bullshit tech like nanotech working, and deploy it to all people who want it. bones with the flexibility of wet noodles and the strength of titanium bars, eyes that can see through walls and see in the dark, wounds that instantly mend themselves.

the interesting thing about all of these predictions is that you can show how they'll unfold step by step, but you can't put dates on any of them. i'd wager that nanotech will be a thing within the next 20-60 years, with genetic engineering starting within the next few years (hello china!)

is there really a problem with niggers and other subhumans when you can lift them up with the power of technology?

That isn't a legitimate point, when those jobs were being automated there was already a need for labor in other industries. People could move off the farm and work in factories making consumer goods that people wanted but couldn't afford because there wasn't enough workers to make them so there was a shortage of supply. Now jobs are being killed with no where for them to go. Like I said before truck drivers are not going to become computer programmers.

Ideally we'll abolish the minimum wage by then and human labor will still be more cost-effective than automation.
Besides, there's MANY jobs that require a functioning mind in order to be accomplished, you're just going to lose shit like food service and manufacturing after automation becomes more cost-effective than human labor and is fully phased in (we still have businesses using Windows Vista for fuck's sake).

Also smaller businesses are NOT going to be able to afford that level of automation. If we fix these dumbass regulations and make it easier for small business to employ workers, there'll be even less of a problem.

>Also smaller businesses are NOT going to be able to afford that level of automation
and so they will go bankrupt

Mixed economies, fascism, and distributism are all perfectly capable of handling the coming automation user. In fact, fascism and distributism would handle it better than socialism would, as they would address the cultural issues that would ensue in addition to the material issues. So why do you think socialism is the only solution?

>oncoming wave of automation

Yes the whole world will be automated and run by shitskins below 80 IQ.

kek the west will fall and people will live like they did 100 years ago with exception with the few wealthy

>Like I said before truck drivers are not going to become computer programmers.

i don't understand the logic of you reddit types

so, we're in the middle of another industrial revolution right now, we can program machines to think like humans (our ability to do this is getting greater by the week) and there is a very high ceiling to our efforts in this regard that we're not even close to hitting... we're about to unleash a series of increasingly intelligent robots with the capability to not only handle large amounts of data, but to intelligently make decisions on that data (IBM Watson has something like an 80% success rate in diagnosis compared to a 60% success rate with humans)...

but the moment Cletus gets fired from his job driving a b-double, that's it for everyone with a low IQ forever? we can build artificial hearts for people, but we can't teach 'ol Cletus to work a checkout machine in his local town out in Alabama, or do literally anything else to help his people until we develop technology that can boost his intelligence?

you'd be into pic related.

The interaction of genes and whatnot is so complex that we won't be able to safely "bring them up to parity" (blacks and some other groups like Abos especially, but also Mestizos and a couple of others) with certainty, there are so many genes related to intelligence and complex behaviors that effectively engineering at that level isn't going to be happening for at least 20-30 years, at which point automation wil be well underway and most of them will have become obsolete. We can't just re-engineer them to improve when they've already been born and are working.

No. Just look at Etsy. Etsy will expand massively. Artisanal products are not "art", they're hand crafted things like clothes, lights, furnishings. Everybody can contribute to this and our economies will look like a gigantic network of small cottage industries, while the important stuff like a new boiler is made cheaply by automation.

Let poor people die.

It can't and it isn't intended to.

I don't even understand what you are saying at all. Even if everyone had an IQ of 160 most people would still have no jobs 100 years from now. You are very confused.

Universal basic income will happen. Automatization is going to make it easier for the 0.01% to make money, but they'll be taxed more. Essentially they'll be paying taxes for what were previous wages and they can keep being rich.

Of course this won't work when our fellow countrymen insist we should share this with all of Africa.

also Her is a glimpse of the future work

The issue is different this time. Previously machines replaced physical labor and had people something else. Now it's also replacing people's brains.

Just logistics alone are tens of millions of jobs and they will all be replaced within 15 years.

>socialism is inevitable
Okay, I keep on having to say this, but why is it always socialism with you guys? Fascism and distributism are both ideologies perfectly capable of handling automation, and solving every problem socialism seeks to solve (as well as problems socialism never even attempts to solve) so why is it always "socialism is the only way" with you guys?

how you going to make them pay the taxes?

Also wtf is going to happen to Sub-Saharan Africa and other undeveloped countries while advanced countries automate? Are they just going to be left behind and still subsistence farming and dealing with civil strife and ethnic wars while people in Japan and Switzerland basically have a year-long vacation?

>and so they will go bankrupt
How do you figure? They'll hire all these supposed jobless low-skill workers.

wtf is distributism?

but yes natsoc is the future

thanks comrade, can you hack their hearts for us?

>The interaction of genes and whatnot is so complex that we won't be able to safely "bring them up to parity" (blacks and some other groups like Abos especially, but also Mestizos and a couple of others) with certainty
not an argument. you're coming at this from the position of a single person thinking linearly, potentially interfacing with a bunch of other people who are also thinking in the same manner. everyone gets tired, people have other shit to do, you have people messing with your job, politics, etc. this may be a valid argument when applied to a group of people trying to do what you're saying, but when you have a machine doing it in parallel millions of times faster than you, that can change. i'm not saying that it can or will be done, but it's a much better bet.

> there are so many genes related to intelligence and complex behaviors that effectively engineering at that level isn't going to be happening for at least 20-30 years, at which point automation wil be well underway and most of them will have become obsolete.
obsolete doesn't automatically mean "grab the AK-47 vlad, we're going out genociding!". with the amount of efficiency we're going to get from automation it's going to be pretty hard to cause any damage by leaving these cucks alone for a few decades. worst case we'll just have to burn down another few detroits.


>We can't just re-engineer them to improve when they've already been born and are working.
with future tech, yes.

you know exactly what i'm talking about.

if anything the power of capitalism will be magnified

The thing is the checkout machine doesn't need Cletus anymore. Nobody needs Cletus anymore.

What's going to make them pay? The Capitalist Labor Machine Owning Class will at that point essentially own and control everything, and even have a chokehold supply/near monopoly on the monetary supply flowing into their governments, not to mention that the machines aren't going to unionize and revolt or demand anything and stop them from becoming completely oligarchical. Outside of a violently armed revolution from the populace, which isn't really possible outside of a heavily armed country, like say, the US or Switzerland, what's to actually stop them?

The same way as now, just more?

he'll do what he's always done then, sit around on food stamps and fuck his cousin. worst case he dies, leaving a ton of cletus jrs. you're also assuming that everyone everywhere will take on new technology equally.

Basically pro-small government and small business. Mayor>governor>president, combined with a bunch of trust busting and pro-small business policies. The idea is to have as many people as possible be small business owners, so many small factories and stores as opposed to fewer large ones. Family focused culture and economy.

>TL;DR version: 40 acres and a mule- the ideology

won't it just lower the prices until even todays expensive things are cheap? we'll find ways to make money producing OC of some kind

So sort of like old style America? I'd like that, one absolutely assbusting part about yurop is that's hard as shit to start a company as a young man.
You will get obliterated by taxes and rules before you even can start your first production, I'm strongly for cutting like 90% of all red tape around that stuff.

Pretty much. It is large inspired by the late middle ages, where small businesses were the norm, and they often came together into "guilds" as a sort of union for businessmen. The distributist system also calls for a sort of guild system, although checks would have to be made to make sure it isn't abused (like how the taxi service is abused today).

thanks meme professor!

Dizzy Gillespie was born in my hometown. A small park exists where his former childhood home stood

And we should care because...

Seriously though, stay on topic.

Luddite.

We could probably institute something similar to Strasserism in which each person was entitled to shares of aggregate economic productivity via machines while the original owner and builder was given the largest share. Factories could come under somewhat collective ownership of neighborhoods/boroughs or small towns and the community could take a part in the decision making processes of business and production in addition to the factory and capital owner

Nah. There will be another thread exactly like this one 45 minutes after this one slides. You can always comment again then

A good question from a leaf for once, usually you guys just post faggot and cuck shit aswell as "pol btfo" garbage. You must be a lonely leaf-intellectual in a land full of degenerates.

As for your question I have no idea, many say basic income will solve the dilemma but I'm skeptical of how sustainable that is. Even in that scenario things would still suck as the people on basic income will still be extremely poor with no money to enjoy themselves with and due to most of the jobs being automated they'll have no way to get out of their poverty.

We could draft all citizens. The new automated production would allow us to handle the costs, everyone would have purpose and the discipline to avoid degeneracy, and if you happen to go to war, you have hundreds of millions of elite soldiers at the ready.

Sure, we'll probably have robot soldiers by then, but those are expensive, require power, can be EMP'd, hacked, and jammed, and require a lot of metal and moving parts. Humans are cheap, self-producing, and you'll have them lying around anyways, so might as well use them. Plus, power armor and future tech greatly increases their durability and lethality.

Banning something isn't very capitalistic

The only point where automation comes that robot will work for you, comes in a few thousand years you fucking idiot. You still need engineers and managers and cleaning people and all these fucking jobs that only humans can do idiot. I fucking hate canadians.

I'm kind of worried what a ton of Muslims will do when they have nothing to do all day because robots are doing all the work and are just getting paid to be around desu.

People concerned with "b...b...b..but what happens to the poor people?" are not thinking about this issue with clarity. Automation makes things cheaper. It will not be the case of there being a giant super expensive machine that creates everything the elites want and everybody else goes back to subsistence farming. That tech becomes cheaper. Look at Sub-Saharan Africa and their adoption of smartphones. They will be able to afford robots that till the land, make clothes and produce enough jenkem to give them a new paradise like existence.

>jobs that only humans can do
oh you

Not necessarily the best idea. Until we'd get full penetration with a massive family planning campaign or either sterilization we know from experience that they will just use the abundance to just have kids until they can't due to lack of enough food. If we don't properly plan this Africa may get to 4-5 billion people by 2080 or so and be facing a population crisis nothing like the world has ever seen

WE ALL GON' BE BROKE NIGGA

Robotic sex will be reality, then next thing you know your penis is plugged into Matrix. Fuck if only i knew where that robot was made. Made by private gangster company in Mexico, now you can't escape cartel Matrix. CIA developing their own Matrix, people disappearing, milking people, directly plugged in into Soroses of future.... breathe for me goy.

So my art career will finally take off?

You're talking out of your ass. You're acting as though it's a fact that "1 robot could replace 100 farmers" or some bullshit. The farmer still owns the farm, he has to buy robots to run it, he has to employ a shitload of people to maintain the robots (I guarantee they will break down constantly as any machine used for intense work does) and there is no reason to believe automation will completely eradicate all forms of labour.

Also, if there were no minimum wage, workers would likely accept lower wages to the point that they are equal or cheaper labour than robots.

Your truck driver scenario is also not very good since changing an industry that huge would be a hugely expensive shift.

Nope. Machines will be able to make art much better than you can, and even if theres a market for it then it will be flooded with tens of millions of amateur and professional artists all thinking the same thing you are.

>Machines will be able to make art much better than you can
Unless you're talking about a full-on artificial sentient consciousness, I can't see how that would ever be the case.

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

so people specialice on what's not programable beforehand, what is your problem?

unenployment is only due to government policies, as spaniard I'm an authoriced expert to talk about this

That video just assumes that it's a scientific fact that creativity isn't innately human, without giving any explanation. Creativity is based on emotion, and again, unless we're talking a sentient computer, no machine will ever have that. Just because you can program a computer to replicate pleasant music with an algorithm doesn't mean it's on the same level as a human.

/leftypol/ raiding Sup Forums again

Just hit them with race statistics
These people are TRIGGERED when you point out that there are differences between races.
These people want you to accept their awful economic ideas, but they don't even believe in race and evolution.

learn2script ayyy
all those stupid McDonald girls gonna have to get pussy pounded for them tasty dollars

just imagine gettin bjs for a dollar

Surprised a pole is furiously defending manual labor?

>Hurr
I think retards like you are completely mistaking this "they will find other jobs"
>Industrial revolution
-Made less people needed for a the job
-People went from agrarian to industry sector
Then
>post-industrial revolution
-Made less people needed for industrial jobs
-People went from industry sector to service sector and technical sector
Automation revolution
-Less people needed for service sector jobs and technical sector
-People will go from service sector and tech sector to...???

Your mistake is thinking that entire sectors of jobs were creator. You're wrong. The service, agrarian, industrial, and technical sector always existed. People were just moving from one sector to another sector as technology made one sector easier and another more lucrative.
What new sector exists that people can move from once the service sector is automated with AI replacing the technical sector soon to follow?