Where's the flaw?

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So a citizen goes and has a bunch of burgers smokes , drinks and lives unhealthy and i eat healthy exercise and take care of my body and am suppose to pay for his healthcare

It's harmful for a society to subsidize the faction who are poor and unhealthy, which is the group who would benefit most from free Healthcare. People with diseases or who make poor choices shouldn't be in the gene pool.

I haven't seen a faggot socialist overcome the NAP argument yet.

>and i'm supposed to pay for his healthcare

he is paying too you retard, that is how the system works

The unhealthy person costs the system more. If you believe you have the right to socialized healthcare then you also have the responsibility to keep your self healthy to not overbear the system.

>you also have the responsibility
>responsibility

they can do whatever the fuck they want you cuck

Basically this also if i want lower or higher standards in regard to health why should i pay for a fixed quality ?

that's the argument basically they can do whatever they want and i can do whatever i want that's why we don't like public healthcare

I think Paul goes a little too literal into the slavery argument. But overall how can you have a "right" to some else's property. If I don't wanna use my right to free speech that is on me, if the government tries to oppress me I can fight back. What if I want to see a doctor and they refuse? Can I hold a gun to their head if it's my right?

Yeah, they can. But don't expect tax payers to pay for your shitty and unhealthy life style.

>rights don't come with responsibilities

Get out faggot

Paul's argument is intellectually interesting, but ultimately the "slippery slope" line of reasoning fails in reality, which is why most consider it to be an ineffective rhetorical tactic.

In this case, the idea that universal government-subsidized health care would actually lead to forcing doctors and affiliated staff to work against their will is pretty laughable. For one, they would still be getting paid for their services, and if they are rational actors then they wouldn't care whether their payment is coming from the government or from an insurance company.

There is a solution that appeases both sides. Give out publicly funded vouchers to use at private healthcare companies.

Looks like Satan hates fatties too.
Good guy Satan.

yeah and cyprus is a shining example of a great country
nice trips but kill yourself
>leaf

Do you burgers really think that's how it works in the rest of the world ?

Not everyone pays retard, that isnt how the system works. We can talk about this when we force everyone to pay taxes regardless of their income level.

Not an argument.

or you know u just work as usual, but the tax payers make the health care free

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There is no such thing as free health care. Even in Canada we pay for it.

""""""""""""""""""""""""free""""""""""""""""""""""

>Duh your country doesn't have a high living standard that means your argument is invalid
not an argument dude

Actually a person living longer is automatically making them cost more. Smokers are less costly for health care systems than people who don't smoke.

So does the right to an attorney mean the right to enslave lawyers?

i dont know how its in canada, bu the prices the americans pay for their healthcare, they can with that money fly to europe, have vacation, get all the doctors they need and have a spare left, the same blood bag in america costs 10 times more than here

He's not saying that it ever would, he's saying that a "right to healthcare" taken to its logical end would mean the state had the right to enslave doctors to provide that right.

He's not paying enough to cover his medical care. The difference is being made up by the healthier people in the system who cost less because they require less medical care.

>Spend four years studying ass off in undergraduate
>Another four years studying ass off in medical school
>Spend another 4 to 7 years studying and working 100 - 120 hour weeks as a resident making less than McDonald's worker per hour
>Fellowship for one to two years
>"Wow user, why are you so selfish and only care about money, socialized medicine is a great idea, taking a paycut for doctors isn't a big deal you make enough already!" - Gender Studies Diversity Coordinator making 150,000 a year

"Free" as in "break your leg and don't have to sell your mother to pay it back"

Not true

Americas system is shit because they are over run by blacks and mestizos. Subsidizing them even more would be a total disaster.

welcome to vancouver where homeless heroin addicts flood the hospitals everysingle night trying to chase that first opioid high and overdosing in the process. he doesnt pay taxes,he takes welfare, spends it on heroin, and we pay the medical costs.

No it means the state has no right to try you unless it provides you with an attorney.

also

>we want socialism and open borders!

you cant have both

Medical school is only expensive because collages make it expensive.

Just look at Cuba, Venezuela, Vietnam, and North Korea. All of them have free health care and free education, and some of the highest health standards in the world.

>anything other then tax incentives to people who aren't high risk
Bernie Sanders is such a fucking faggot, anyone who believes this goy deserves to be roped.

Right, which is intellectually interesting and cute and slick and all of that. But it has not practical application in the real world. It doesn't accomplish anything. It's naval-gazing. The better counter-argument to Bernie's proposition is one that is grounded in reality - that explains why such a policy would actually be bad for the country, on the ground.

I have a really stupid question. Is publicly-funded healthcare and college considered socialism? I don't know because socialism means that the means of production are partly or fully owned by the workers. And publicly-funded stuff doesn't mean anything is owned by the workers, it just means the public is paying for it.

No. The state creates courts that it may compel you to attend, therefore it must also provide representation if you require it. Not the same thing as your body naturally getting a cold and requiring the state to provide a doctor.

The left loves to use muh human rights argument to get shit passed without realizing what that term even means. Paul is correct, a right must be something that should never under any circumstances be taken away. You can't have rights that under certain circumstances are contradictory.

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>venezuela
>"""""venezuela"""""

huffingtonpost.com/salim-lamrani/cubas-health-care-system-_b_5649968.html

Rand isn't even commenting on whether or not we should have free health care, he is just calling Bernie a retard for not understanding what a human right even is.

Universal state-run healthcare is an absolute shit show. Take it from me.

t. Britbong paying thousands of £ a year in tax to prop up the NHS

>tfw have a shit diet and never go to regular doctor visits/check-ups
>feel great

ama me anything

Thats how our system works mate, its why im private, our public system is a shithole.

>Paul is correct, a right must be something that should never under any circumstances be taken away.

This is not what our Constitution and our Supreme Court believes. The government is allowed to infringe upon even our most fundamental enumerated rights if it passes what the Court calls the "strict scrutiny" legal test. And that's just for the big enumerated rights. It is much easier for the government to pass the test allowing them to infringe upon other, lesser rights.

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That's some stupid sophistry. By that logic, every police officer and firefighter is a slave.

A lot of people don't realize that at one point you had to subscribe to get fire protection. There were a bunch of private fire fighting companies and if your house caught fire and you didn't have the badge of the company that was closest, they would not help put the fire out.
Does that mean fire fighters are slaves now?

Libertarians are fucking retarded.

>No argument

>not true
Non an argument. Go do your research, leaf.

Holy shit source on that OP? I want to see Bernie get btfo

>"Free" as in "break your leg and don't have to sell your mother to pay it back"

>redefining free to mean subsidized.
Fuck off with your loaded terms commie

I guess we should be pushing people to be unhealthy or cull the at age 60 then.

>North Korea

>He actually thinks I'm going to bother when he actually thinks North Korea has "some of the highest health standards in the world"

>believing propaganda

lmao

This is way below australian standards. Have the emus risen again ?

Not an argument you fucking moron

Why can't we just have Japan's system?

not an arguement

>being too fucking stupid to tell the difference between propaganda and truth

Prove that it doesn't.

And no, 'Vice, funded by the CIA' isn't a valid source.

People from South Korea flee to North Korea on a regular basis.

Because we don't have a high labor participantion, secure borders, or a homogenous society willing to sacrifice for the greater good of society.

GOTTEM

>Prove that the sky isn't blue
Why would I bother. Anyone with 2 brain cells can look at N. Korea and their soulless, emaciated population and know you're full of shit.

>People from South Korea flee to North Korea on a regular basis.

>LARPing as leftypol this hard

It's just simple input-output.

do you have more people putting into the system than people taking out? Then your system is stable. Are more people taking out of the system than what goes in? Then your system is not stable and you need to fix it fast. So long as everyone pays taxes and doesn't abuse the healthcare system it would work.

The reality: Third world morons who don't understand what hayfever is clog your emergency rooms because they will get free pills (they will literally sit there for hours for their free pills) THE SAME PILLS YOU COULD BUY FOR 10 DOLLARS AT ANY PHARMACY. THEY WILL DO THIS AND RUIN YOUR EMERGENCY ROOMS IT HAPPENS HERE


but in a closed system without human filth, it's a good system.

>people from south korea flee to north korea

wtf did i just read. what is this? which korea has the better economy? its the south. who doesn't know this? user, just, user.

>society willing to sacrifice for the greater good of society.

Even if America was 90% white that still wouldn't be the case, individualism is a huge part of American culture. And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. Telling Americans that they need to help the "greater good" makes most of us uncomfortable.

We don't have a homogeneous country like Japan does

im now interested to see if google has streetview for best korea. brb.

YOU CANT LARP ON A MESSAGE BOARD REEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE

>But it has not practical application in the real world

Totally does though. Everything mandated by the government comes with it the implicit threat of force for noncompliance. Obviously he has taken it to the logical extreme, in a real world application he'd probably just be tried and fined/jailed rather than shackled to a gurney at gunpoint. But that doesn't invalidate the argument.

Shut up, pasta.

With your diet, I'm surprised you're not the fattest fucks in the world

>Implying they're poor because they're deserve it.

Healthcare should be a state issue anyway. If California wants to dig their debt hole even bigger by letting all the third-worlders drag down a socialized healthcare system they are free to do so.

Greater good could also be phrased as the betterment of society as a whole. You can still be individuallistic and realize and work towards a goal that is larger than the sum of its parts. Americans actually have a history of that behavior.

Keep in mind I'm not talking about the communist "greater good" that means giving all your shit to the state and giving them all the power, but instead realizing that in some things it is better to sacrifice for the betterment of your society as a whole.

rare flag is rare

Free healthcare just mean you collectively pay through it with taxes. It's not actually free, you just don't pay per visit like on commission.

Do Americans not look at our health care system?

While generally I'm on Rand's side in this argument, Bernie blew the fuck out of him in that exchange. Rand fucks up by calling the Doctors slaves, when they of course get paid and can quit their jobs at any time. The burden of slavery is on the taxpayers, who now have the burden of paying for healthcare for all Americans. The central question is wheter this burden should be added to the taxpayers.

>implying they that they don't deserve it.

In reality people are (((poor))) for a number of reasons. Sometimes its their fault, sometimes its their parents fault, sometimes its someone else's fault. Since the causes of poverty are limitless having a one-size fits all government solution is doomed to fall. And thats just what we see today, the more aid the gov't gives to the poor is the more people that fall into poverty.

Leftists call it free because of the persuasion powers. They don't care about being accurate.

You can't argue against leftists. Everything they want is a right. They are too far gone.

>I have a right to make you pay for me

>Bernie: Everyone has a right to the best we can provide

>Paul: You want enslave me and beat down my doctor door and my janitor friends- thats what your saying

>bernie's face: pic related

We don't have poverty. Poverty has been redefined to be the poorest of a country. You will never destroy hierarchies unless you go full commie and just make everyone equally poor.

You have to, otherwise people don't get the point.
Free healthcare is robbery from those who have to create for it.

>Bernie blew the fuck out of him in that exchange

Except, he didn't.

No one has a right to a service -- as it should be.

>implying hierarchies are bad.

>Muh nap.
Fucking insurance company shilling. Everyone should have healthcare and the only way to make it cost less is to cut out the insurance middleman. Nothing else changes, the weak will still burden the strong.

We American's barely know canada exists. We never think about you guys and know nothing about what happens in your country.

If it weren't for the fact that so many of you are shit-posters on Sup Forums your country would be completely irrelevant and ignored by me and my fellow americans.

> where's the flaw?
Sentences are too long for cognitive ease to work on the majority of americans.
He should have said:
> free stuff is a scam > somebody has to pay for it anyway > i`m personally not going nor pay for it, nor work for free > would you? > oh, that would not be free already, wouldn`t it?

Then bernie replies with another socialist bullshit and rand could`ve answered with explanatory sentence about low quality of free shit, about bureaucrats, who are responsible for buying free shit not being interested in it`s quality, etc.

He might`ve even ignored bernie, because bernie is a cuck and he should be ignored.

We literally cannot afford to give everyone the best possible healthcare we can provide. Such care exceeds the total productive value of the majority of people. Especially when so many people make such poor lifestyle choices which cause them inevitable crippling disease.

Leftists hate hierarchies.

>right to service

being paid to do your job isn't the same thing as this alleged "right to service"

This.

And what happens when they don't get paid dumbnuts? What happenswhen the doctors quit or leave? The people still have a RIGHT to healthcare, time to break out the chains.

>duuude that could never happen xD we have infinite money just pass it

That's not true at all
>Stalin, Mao, and Castro
It's just artificially constructed hierarchies.
The ultimate leftist government is communism.
People still lead the communist party, and it sure as shit isn't democratic.

>loaded terms
Nothing is free. By your standards this word shouldn't exist.
>pushing people to be unhealthy
Not exactly. Push people to die young without requiring treatment. Healthcare is a basic insurance and one of the few things defining the first world. No healthcare means people will rather slave away for overexpensive treatments and still die.

Then you don't have a right to receive healthcare, you have a right to seek healthcare.