Why shouldn't the minimum wage be increased to $15? Why shouldn't the minimum wage be a living wage?

Why shouldn't the minimum wage be increased to $15? Why shouldn't the minimum wage be a living wage?

If you give the poor more disposable income, they will spend it on goods and services and it will actually make the economy stronger. Prove me wrong

Why not just make the minimum wage a million dollars per hour? Then we can all be rich

>le why not just make le minimum wage $100 an hour strawman meme

*breaths in*

say it with me bros

not
an
argument

Why should it be $15 instead of smaller increase? The minimum wage is not supposed to be a living wage.

>inb4 1post by this id

>what is inflation
>what is basic economics

Everything would get more expensive.

Ideally, we would trim back welfare and wages would rise to match

The minimum wage should not be a living wage because not all work is "living" work.

If you failed to secure a skill set that allows you to make enough money to support yourself, that is not your employer's fault. Ergo, your employer should not have to pay you more than you are worth.

As for the economic benefits, the government's responsibility is not to maximize economic growth. Its responsibility is to protect your rights (in this example, property rights related to company profits).

As an example, the "government needs to maximize economic output" argument would justify doing things like banning cigarettes and alcohol. Both of those things contribute to enormous sums of money spent on drunk driving, cancer/other health issues, and keeping people in jail. The resources used to produce those goods (e.g., land to grow tobacco, human labor) could also be used to do something that would actually contribute to the advancement of human kind, rather than disease and diminishing health. It isn't the government's place to try to engineer the perfect economy.

Additionally, consider the fact that since you live in America and have access to the internet, you are likely in the top 1% of global earners. I'll take your wealth redistribution ideologies far more seriously when you begin sending 70% of your pay to sub-Saharan Africa.

because thats silly.

but at 15 an hour, you could take all of them off of welfare, etc and not have the fed subsidize slave wages

>daddy, can could I have a piece of candy?

>WOW SON WHY DON'T I JUST BUY THE WHOLE CANDY STORE WHILE I'M AT IT

>illegal mexicans are the only ones allowed to have opinions on minimum wage

You created this same fucking thread 30 minutes ago.

Today in Economics class I asked my teacher why the value of money couldn't change.

He just looked at me like I blew his mind. I think I'm going to be a stock brocker.

if everyone can live with no stress, due to having just enough money, then being rich makes no point. you got a slave away your life to please egos.

what did he mean by this

Losing battle.

Corporate greed is one factor, but the impact on small business is the biggest factor.

Is it reasonable? Hell yes! If the minimum wage is something that needs to be adjusted for inflation, it should be over $15.00 by now. $15.00 an hour is not a living wage, but the jobs that pay minimum wage aren't intended to be jobs that you can fully support yourself with, anyway.

In high school, I made $4.25/hour, but White Castles were $0.29 and gas was still under a dollar a gallon. Whole Foods hadn't even been conceived, so groceries were still cheap. I didn't have an apartment, but the three bedroom my family rented when we moved to Chicago in 1990 was $1,200, and it was a nice one. My one-bedroom now is $1,200.00/month. It just costs that much more to do anything these days.

$15.00/hour?

Yes, but don't confuse this with enough to live on.

Maybe if they knew how to budget money they wouldn't be poor. I paid my way through college on $8 an hour. All these idiots running around with internet, smart phones, netflix, and cable tv. I always had money left over because I know how to budget things. But really I hope it does get increased so machines will replace those incompetent morons that are working jobs meant for teenagers

Have fun in your new tax bracket
That's the real reason for the "government raise"

>If you give the poor more disposable income, they will spend it on goods and services and it will actually make the economy stronger. Prove me wrong
Economics 101 lesson:
Lets say you own a factory that employs 10 people at minimum wage. Currently, the national federal minimum wage is $7.25/hour. In other words, you need to average making at least $72.50/hour so you can pay your employees. This is of course ignoring other expenses a company incurs like rent, insurance, taxes, etc.
If tomorrow, the minimum wage were to increase to $15/hour, that same company would now have to make $150/hour, more than double what they needed to make before, in order to continue being profitable.
At this point, a company faces two options. It can either INCREASE the price of the goods and services they sell (meaning the increased pay will lead to increased expenses), or the company has to DECREASE its labor force, bringing some of those 10 employees wages to $0/ hour.
In other words, increasing the minimum wage only increases the costs of goods and services, making the gesture completely meaningless because people will be spending their increased pay on more expensive basic necessities, or simply not making money at all because they were fired.
TL;DR- You are literally retarded and you need to into economics.

Good idea, user. Create more unemployment. It's cool; your tax dollars will keep them comfortable.

...OR, it can decrease the amount of margin it operates on. Greed is what's keeping Americans from earning more money, not economics.
Politics allows it to happen.
You support it.
Dick.

thing is user is that factories put out several thousand dollars worth or merchandise an hour. the increase in price wouldn't be as large as you're trying to make it seem

I don't see what point you are trying to make.

>literally DOUBLING your payroll costs isn't a large increase

oh my god

you are retarded

A federal minimum wage doesn't make any sense because different areas of the country have different standards of living. Like in cities where housing is so much more expensive than in rural areas.

> implying the government can simply decide how much your work is worth

This is like one of the first things you learn when you take an economics class in high school.

But nevermind about that. Ask yourself this question. Why stop at 15? Why not have the minimum wage raised to 1000? Can you imagine working 8 hours and earning 8,000 dollars? What do you think would happen if everyone earned 8,000 dollars a day (at least)?

Please point me to the part of the Constitution that outlaws greed and says that our property rights are null and void the second that your margins get "too high."

OR you can open up your own fucking business and you can pay whatever the fuck you want to pay your employees.
Want to get paid more? Make your skill set more valuable. Dont expect the government to steal from somebody else to pay for it.

his teacher from his ghetto high school, doesn't actually know the subject their teaching.

big surprise.

if the factory puts out 50k an hour, doubling those 10 wages to 15 isn't much is it?

you're using scary words like DOUBLING to make it seem like its a big deal. that doesn't work here user

the truth is wages are still low because they can be. why can they be? too many people need a job to live.

1: remove illegals to alleviate downward pressure of wages
2: get the nuclear family back into culture so that the workforce loses even more people due to housewives no longer needing to supplement their husbands income

i'd also argue that removing assistance programs would incentivize workers to demand more pay, but thats another thread

no factory has 10 workers

a real example would be 1,500 workers

double the payroll costs on that and you're out of fucking business dude

Because the poor should stay poor

and a factory with 1500 employees produces how much income per hour? you can't complete this equation without more numbers user

You tell us, OP. List 3 of the best arguments against minimum wage you know. Oh, you don't know any?
>prove me wrong
Why are you making claims about subjects you do not understand?

>minimum wage in Florida is like $8.05
>I make $16.04

No thanks senpai keep it how it is.

>its okay when its my employers that are getting fucked

k user

how about we just increase your taxes by 50%

surely you can afford this minor taxation increase

Stop being greedy. The wealth must be redistributed.

There isn't.

That's why we're fucked now.

I'll never get through to you, though; you're obviously an industrialist. Clearly, you have a vested interest in not allowing people to live better in general in the country you call home. Clearly, you'd prefer the crime that comes with poverty. I'm sorry my opinion inconvenienced you.

Nigger

so you have no real argumnet and spouting hyperbole and you're just pretending to be a capitalist because you think its what Sup Forums is. gb2reddit

Why don't we get rid of all the immigrants and see what wages naturally rise to first? If you can't pay some third-worlder minimum wage, you have to raise wages to something an American would be willing to do. And this creates upward pressure across the whole market.

I could.

What do you do? I'd like to be your direct competition. When I pay my employees better and steal all your good ones.

>so you have no real argumnet and spouting hyperbole
No hes trying to put you in the shoes of the employer. Imagine your next paycheck had 50% more in taxes taken out, meaning significantly less spending money for you, despite the fact you worked for that money. You would be pissed as hell wouldnt you?

you're the one without an argument

>its okay if payroll costs double im sure they can take the hit i never took an economics class

k goy

surely if your taxes doubled you'd be able to take the hit :^)

>ohh waah thats not an argument because you demonstrated how weak my argument was through the power of an analogy

>I could.
So why dont you then? Why are you here shitposting when you could be out starting this business?

Fuck it... Why don't we just have negative interest rates?

Everything will increase in value at a proportional level, nobody will be any richer if they don't perform more labor than they previously did

Money is a physical representation of labor performed. If someone made $1 per hour (say that $1 hourly was the minimum wage) flipping burgers and bought a milkshake for $1 then suddenly started making $15 an hour along with everyone else, those milkshakes would cost $15 very shortly. Raising minimum wage to a "living wage" is a stupid idea because it isn't going to do anything except raise everything's prices.

if i were an employer chances are my taxes are already above 50%

yes, if my taxes doubled i'd live largely the same, but with less put away every month. oddly enough, this exact same situation happened when obongocare became a thing

I love how Sup Forums shits on the poor like they have actual wealth.

Everyone here shilling for a higher minimum wage needs to go and look at who REALLY wants it to pass, which is the unions. Their pay is often pegged to minimum wage. You're lining their pockets, not the pockets of people in poverty.

>yes, if my taxes doubled i'd live largely the same

well thanks now I know you're just shitposting you probably don't even have a job

How do you reply to posts on iPhone??

Redistribution is theft

Everyone is entitled to every fruit resulting from their labor because they earned it fair and square

You click on the numbers on the top right of the post

>mom I posted it again.

>Increase minimum wage 100%
>Half the country goes unemployed overnight

>yes, if my taxes doubled i'd live largely the same
Want to know how I know youre underage?

I hate this meme.
Redistribution is stupid, but redirection is feasible. A billionaire doesn't need the extra $7.50/hr that could transform someone else's life, but I'd never expect them to empty their bank accounts and divvy it up amongst the poor.

Let's do both.

Have you ever considered the fact that high profit margins attract new entrants to the market who then compete on price? And that typically the biggest barrier to entry in any given market is the government?

The free market system has brought more wealth to this planet than any other system by far. It's not even close. And the central tenet of free markets is property rights. So yes, I am inconvenienced by your opinion, because you are slowing the progress of human kind by attempting to centrally plan an economy.

Price floors decrease quantity exchanged in most markets.
Higher wage floor means fewer hours worked.
That means fewer jobs and/or fewer working hours for people with jobs.
So the benefit to workers might be negligeable or nonexistant.

I like how the responses to this are libshits calling it a strawman or saying it isn't an argument because they can't refute it.

Where the fuck did 15 come from? Who came up with this arbitrary number? Why not 16? Why not 20 or 25? Tell me where you came up with 15 from and then we can talk.

>strawman
It's more of a slippery slope.
Git gud

I don't want to.

I have no drive to be in charge of people. I hate people.

u rite leaf. u nt rng.

i live austerely, as i watched my parents burn the candle at both ends and now struggle to make ends meet

just admit you are wrong, you have no argument, let it go. you are all the wiser now. closing the thread. see you later!

if my taxes went from 9k a year to 18k a year, i'd still be putting away 10k a year. you act like its completely impossible for someone to have low monthly expenses

Also, I could say the same of you.

>Poverty is the cause of crime

>closing the thread. see you later!
cya shlomo and don't let the door hit your dumb ass on its way out

What if a franchisee normally makes 10k a week from an established business, it's what he expects

The business only has a good reputation from the minimum wage workers working their back off.

The busines now makes the franchisee 50k a week. Guess what the workers are still earning?

Just because you put a capital investment into something doesn't count as hard labour

This is a ridiculous analogy. Fast food employees make more than $1/hour. Go ahead and raise the price of milkshakes. I don't need that shit anyway.

$15.00/hour is not a living wage. Don't forget that.

Are you fucking b8?
Yes, obviously user is a psychopath who gets his rocks off looking at poor niggers scrambling for food in a dumpster. Go be a snarky woman somewhere else, faggot.

Taxing "le industrialists" isn't the right way to go at "greed", what you have to do is get money completely out of politics, make it illegal to operate in the US if over 50% of your net worth resides in another country's banks or something like that. There are too many lobbies, those should also be made illegal. We need to regulate the government, not industry.

Niggers have to do with it, but poverty does cause more unstable households, a higher divorce rate, and therefore children raised wrong.
>What are wiggers

The highest value for minimum wage was $11 per hour (measured using 2013 dollars) back in the late 1960s.

The minimum wage is not meant to be a living wage. It is meant to be a starting wage, a bottom limit on what an employer can pay an employee.

Unions go by prevailing wage, not minimum.

Let me tell you why
McDonald's worker gets paid $8.50
Supervisors get paid about $10-13 an hour
see the problem?
after you increase the minimum wage then the supervisors will have to be paid more because they won't work for less than the crew members are making
Assistant GM's make about 32k a year
with $15 an hour employees make 28k a year (full time)
Do you get it now?
It would be a never ending series of wage raises

thats basically what your paying anyway considering the vast majority of people on welfare are working but make so little they still qualify for gibs. your paying for these people so the companies dont have to.

Because you don't NEED a smart phone, an internet connection, multiple TVs, new sneakers every two months, and multiple pets.
They're luxuries. Stop living outside your means.
Minimum wage means minimum life.

There's a word for this phenomenon but I can't think of it atm

Cause I get paid well at my current job. Ive made myself valuable at my job so its easier for me to negotiate higher wages.

15 = 1,000,000

They're both the same thing!

I agree with your point I used to be a libertarian, but I never get an answer for this question... Is the free market magic?

Realistically
>trim down welfare
>minimum wage doesn't move at all.

Big corpo will always put their min wage at bear minimum. If they could pay less they would.

Okay, the minimum wage is now $25 per hour instead of $7.25. Gas costs $2.50 per gallon at $7.25/hour. But because the minimum wage got increased to $25/hour, gas now costs $8.62/gallon. Happy now?

>Why shouldn't the minimum wage be increased to $15? Why shouldn't the minimum wage be a living wage?

because then it wouldn't be?

The wealth that would primarily be affected typically has little to do with hard work. The ones that would be hit the hardest never even met the relative that worked hard to get it because he died a hundred years ago. Don't let your hearts bleed too much for the wealthy. "I might be one someday" isn't an excuse for rooting for the team you're not on.

LMAO at some nigs at McDonalds who can't get a goddamn order right to save their lives making $15 an hour.

I do not "get my rocks off looking at niggers scrambling for food in a dumpster." If I did, I would prefer socialism.

Instead I prefer capitalism, which has greatly diminished the number of dumpster diving niggers on this planet.

What is sensical about trapping capital within any given country? If I told you you could not spend any money outside of your own neighborhood, what effect do you think that would have on your life?

what if you're a small business with lower profit margins?

Scale is not something these faggots get.

and by what magic would this work? i am honestly curious, because at a glace it seems to work on the assumption that companies will somehow stop paying as little as legally possible to maximize profit.

Educate your self on the free market, faggot OP

I think you're overstating what the actual results would be.

$15.00 an hour is not a living wage?
not even at full time?
nigger that's 28k a year
maybe not for a family but I could live fucking great on that.

I don't know what to tell you here. Many union contracts are pegged to minimum wage. Google the issue.

>the unlimited amount of well paying jobs meme again

go to bed grandpa

They would be filtered out and become NEET

My main man, you not think that white students will replace these retarded workers? You pay in peanuts, you get monkeys

You forgot about management getting their raise. You think people who have to corral these fucking day laborers are going to stay making $20 an hour when the nigs they supervise make $15.

Nah. Not many people actually make minimum wage in the US.

Hell, the fast food joints around here pay a couple bucks over it.

Minimum wage is for people who are literally unqualified to sling fast food.

>Golly gee, why is everyone is now stuffing their dollars into their mattresses and walls instead of keeping it in banks?

>golly gee why are we always making our economic policies from the perspective of banks rather than the citizens of the nation

The problem with having money in other countries is the fact that it goes untaxed by the government (yes I know Le taxation is theft, but we do not live in that system, our current system depends on taxes, otherwise it collapses) Swiss accounts and tax heavens where billionaires and trillonaires (like the Rothschilds and the Wallmart family) keep all their money are the issue, I'm not saying we need a redistribution of money, but that has to be taxed, they need to pay for their crimes of tax evasion.

It's all digital now

You can do it