Why do communists think that after a period of socialism, the state will magically "wither away" and communism will form?
Really? You idiots think forming the most authoritarian governments that control every single aspect of your lives will somehow give up their power.
Explain your reasoning.
Why do communists think people wouldn't start trading, using money and doing capitalist activities after the state is gone?
Delusional.
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Commie scum defend yourselves.
/leftypol/ turned in for the night m8, it's past their bedtime.
What utter children they are lmao
No, this is just about the time for the Spanish faggot to show himself. They alternate times for this.
Why don't mods permaban him for spamming?
To make it work they need q major things.
1. A country with all resources needed to self-sustain it's population - oli, gas, food etc.and non-participation in international trade.There are very few of those on earth. One of them(arguably) is Russia.
2. Total communication blackout to the outside world so your population doesn't know there is another option and believes this is the heaven on earth. Still happening in North Korea(for the most part).
It fails 100% of the time. It was kind of possible by 19th/early 20th century standards, which is when they tried to enforce it. But by late 20th with all the tech advancement it became apparent it is not possible. Why is it so hard to learn from history?
the mods have been infiltrated by a lefty faggot
the janitor banned him for a while but the mods told him to stop banning him because it's politics even though there's proof this spam is a raid bullshit
The population is totally brainwashed and subservient to the government in North Korea.
Why haven't they transitioned to communism yet?
Are they not ready?
that's anarcho communism you're thinking of, regular commies are fine with living under the boot of a communist state due to being double cucks
They are missing the first of the first factors.
All necessary resources. They need to import food, which is sold to them(by China), hence they participate in world trade. That's the closest they'll ever get to "true communism". There are still different classes there as far as I am aware. That's the biggest issue with "advanced socialsim" as they used to call it here. It's actually worse than in capitalist society. It's not important what you can do to get more, but rather who in the government do you know to set you up with a clean flat in the capitol and get you out of the rural fields. Trust me, speaking from experience.
>that's anarcho communism you're thinking of
No, Marxist leninists think after a period of socialism the state will wither away and they will have communism
Always wanted to meet a western commie in person who is convinced this will happen.
Just for teh pleasure of telling him I grew up in that shit and it was never going to "wither away", because it's not in human nature to give up perks you've somehow acquired.
Communism is not the most authoritarian government, as you can clearly see by the modern examples of it. China or Cuba are less authoritarian than generic autocracies like Middle Eastern states or even Turkey.
They also coopt democratic elements. As time goes by, it will increase.
The government may be pressured from the public and carry out reforms, like it was in the Soviet Union,
They're just little kids man, leave Brittany alone.
>Communism is not the most authoritarian government
It pretty much is though. The vast majority of examples of horrifying authoritarian governments in history have ALL been communist.
>China or Cuba are less authoritarian than generic autocracies like Middle Eastern states or even Turkey.
I actually doubt that.
The withering away of the state requires the dictatorship of the proletariat, the rule of democratically elected workers' councils and a planned economy for human need and not for profit.
That might be the reason I've never met one.
I'm probably just too old to even meet such people.
It's kind of sad though. Just proves we don't learn from past mistakes.
They don't care about that, they just hate that people are better than them.
youtube.com
It's total blank slateism, they think they can declare a man to not be a man and it will be so. Declare a thing that performs all the functions of a state to not be a state and it will be so. Call the police something other than police and they will stop having to beat negroes who get uppity. It's all nonsense.
Yes.
Explain why you think these people will give up their power.
They won't.
>The vast majority of examples of horrifying authoritarian governments in history have ALL been communist.
The most horrifying governments are surely the African ones, many of which attempted liberalism. The only reason you think the way you do is because you were deliberately horrified during the Cold War and as an aftermath of it.
>I actually doubt that.
Well, let's see. In China, you are free to hold, explore an express any views, barring some radical religious sects. You may campaign and protest for your economic rights or against corruption or violations of officials, as long as you don't denounce the government as a whole. You are free to move. You may do whatever you want with your private life and your body. There are some elections up to the city level. You may be quite confident that your property will be protected by the law.
All in all, unless you are some sort of activist, the authoritarianism won't even affect you in any way.
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Really makes you think
>The most horrifying governments are surely the African ones
No.
Pol Pot and Maoist china was worse.
>many of which attempted liberalism.
No they didn't lol
>The only reason you think the way you do is because you were deliberately horrified during the Cold War and as an aftermath of it.
I wasn't alive during the cold war. I just read history books. Communism was atrocious and was basically a mass slave labour camp that didn't let people leave.
Maoist china was probably the worst.
>You may campaign and protest for your economic rights
Bullshit people in china are oppress ALL of the fucking time. Do you even read the news?
It's extremely hard for the average chinese person to own property.
>or against corruption or violations of officials
People get thrown in prison all of the time for this.
Do you even know what falun gong is? Do you even know what black jails are?
How are you seriously this ignorant of these things?
>You may do whatever you want with your private life and your body.
This isn't even true at all and people even much more oppressed under mao.
>You may be quite confident that your property will be protected by the law.
You can't even own property so it doesn't matter.
I'd much rather live in saudi arabia then live in mainland China.
>bitcoin
>the worst
bootyblasted
Are you the based leaf from the other day?
Sorry user, but I'm going to have to support communism here. I love watching idiots get happening'd, mass murdered, and starved to death.
I hope they all band together and form their own society so they remove themselves from the genetics pool. Go communism go!
>Are you the based leaf from the other day?
Yes.
People should spend more time standing up to marxist bullshit.
There's so many holes in their main theories and we should be going after that than just calling them faggots.
Going after their main autistic theories makes them SOOOOOOOOOO mad.
Communism and/or socialism for that matter have never (save maybe the Soviet Union before Lenin's death) been truly practiced as of yet. It takes a simple google search to see that.
Power vacuums ALWAYS come about an upheaval of regime, with the leading cult of personality (being the vanguard of the people) filling the void and then realizing they have (normally) have total control and say "fuck it" and subvert the revolution for their own flavor of authoritarianism under the guise of a "Communist State" (which itself is an oxymoron) and proceed to eliminate all opposition because they understood that a REAL socialist/communist society would not allow concentration of power into the hands of one when the primary tenants of either explicitly state decentralization and direct democracy. None of the so called "Communist States" practiced the most basic ideas of socialism.
The society would utilize a direct democracy, so the people can put laws in place to stop exploitation. The state wouldn't necessarily cease to exist, it would cease to exist in the traditional sense of governing/policing and be transformed into a tool for production, distribution/management. Almost like a farmers co-op where people can have their own goods but have a meeting grounds to pool, manage, and distribute other/excess goods when and where they are needed.
Communism is a long-shot, because it is utopian and implies human beings have enlightened themselves to look at the big picture, with the needs of the individual not exceeding society as a whole. It seems far-fetched to us because that's not how we were taught on how the world works, and it doesn't work that way as it is today. It's hard to understand it when we've been raised on the sole adage of "GET DAT GREEN" but really, if basic human needs and rights were met it's completely feasible to foresee a society where people don't actively fuck each other over for "stuff".
Socialism is attainable in the near-future because it's aimed at being a compatible replacement for democratically-capitalist societies and is the transitional phase over a loooong period of time to communism when the society is ripe for it, but not anytime sooner.
North Korea is not communist. Common misconception. They are Juiche
Different government.
everytime they show up, just post stirner memes and say that labor/communism/marxism is a spook.
It's far too easy to turn "their memes" against them.
>Pol Pot and Maoist china was worse.
Pol Pot is bad, Mao is completely fine.
>No they didn't lol
Are you serious? Why is Liberia called Liberia?
>Bullshit people in china are oppress ALL of the fucking time. Do you even read the news?
Do you?
popularresistance.org
>Do you even know what falun gong is?
Yes. It is a radical totalitarian sect, that are suppressed in China as I mentioned.
>This isn't even true at all and people even much more oppressed under mao
Please cite what you are unfree to do in China with your private life and body.
>You can't even own property so it doesn't matter.
Yeah, right.
chinacheckup.com
You do realise that the point you are trying to defend is completely ridiculous?
>Communism and/or socialism for that matter have never (save maybe the Soviet Union before Lenin's death) been truly practiced as of yet. It takes a simple google search to see that.
NOT
REAL
SOCIALISM
It's pretty embarrassing when you people claim this. Yet the vast majority of other marxists you associate with believe it WAS true socialism.
Fuck you you intellectually dishonest shill.
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Why do fascists deny an undeniable leftist influence on Fascism? Mosley was a Fabian and pre-Franco Falangism was very wealth distributive. Fascism is nationalism imbued with egalitarian views on wealth.
>It's pretty embarrassing when you people claim this. Yet the vast majority of other marxists you associate with believe it WAS true socialism.
In my research it's the exact opposite. Knew it was coming either way.
>"Socialism is a range of economic and social systems characterised by social ownership and democratic control of the means of production"
Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me
Fascism is more left wing than right wing. I think everyone agrees on that.
The point of fascism is to protect a nation's people, and that includes from the rich. Of course fascists aren't communists as they believe in private property, but they oppose subversive businesses and globalism. For example, pornography would not be allowed to be produced in a fascist state because it is harmful to the people.
>North Korea is not communist.
Jason Unhrue or whatever said that they are still socialist.
>Mao is completely fine.
LOL Mao starved enslaved and starved millions of his own people.
You need to kill yourself if you think that's totally fine. Go live in north korea.
>Are you serious? Why is Liberia called Liberia?
Wow names. Names define everything.
>popularresistance.org
LOL WOW
One small group of chinese workers have protested. Wow you totally btfo me out.
Totally ignore the fact that countless political and religious groups are enslaved and killed in china.
Are you angry that you're wrong or something.
>It is a radical totalitarian sect,
It's a peaceful religious group you wastes of life are protesting. The fact the government is persecuting them proves your previous point wrong.
en.wikipedia.org
>Please cite what you are unfree to do in China with your private life and body.
>start a business
>own private property
>have free speech
>go on facebook and youtube
>speak your mind without being silenced
There was even more totalitarianism under mao.
China needs to be nuked.
>chinacheckup.com
>DURRRR THERE IS WESTERN COMPANIES APPROVED BY THE GOVERNMENT IN CHINA SO THAT MEANS YOU CAN OWN PROPERTY
You literally can't though, why do you lie?
quora.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
>In my research it's the exact opposite.
Nobody cares about your research.
Do you not have marxist friends?
Like 90% of them believe it was true socialism.
>Doesn't sound like a dictatorship to me
Democracy is authoritarian to begin with, so no, you're wrong.
>mfw commies have no argument
>tfw you share your flag with the commie catalan cuck
Mental illness.
In any sane society these people would be locked in rubber rooms.
Unfortunately western civilization has a death wish and lets them vote, and become teachers, and bloviate in social media.
>everyone agrees on that.
Fascists will CHIMP if you say that.
>protect a nation's people
Which can be inferred as egalitarian wealth redistribution and that is as harmful to the people as full-blown socialism.
Catalan should just separate already. I fucking hope they do it would start a chain reaction of separatist movements.
Memes are a spook.
It's hard to have an argument when the other side keeps spouting willful misinterpretations and outright lies.
It's easier to have an argument with holocaust-deniers than with Sup Forumss more rabid anti-communists. The latter are more like Anti-Fa than you'd care to admit.
>food analogy
No it's not. Holocaust deniers are absolutely rabid and retarded.
Anti-commies are not wrong, some just don't know the details and tend to expand the definition of communism and socialism to everything they don't like.
Translation: I was unable to refute this evil racist bourgeois fascist argument which completely destroyed by theories and this angered me.
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Juiche is a form of socialism built on achieving communism through nationalistic, psuedo religious emphasis. It's still socialism
So my point stands.
Spaincommie and Obamaleaf need to be gassed.
It's simple, the gubbernmend withers away so a stronk gommunistic one can take over and seize everyone else's property. This makes the people more happy and equal :^)
Please take all my property strong communist government, I'll gladly work in the mines for basic rations of bread and dirty water.
I see that you know nothing about China and ignore my factual evidence that contradict your claims. Alrighty. Have fun in your bubble.
>countless evidence of speech people silenced and people being persecuted
>lol nah it doesn't exist bro
Damn communism really took a toll on you people, you're so sycophantic.
With oxygen
With black cocks.
>I enjoy oxidative stress
You'd die anyway within a few days.