STEM or trade???
HELP ME Sup Forums, I'm 18, I have 2k in my savings account but I'm unemployed, odds are if I go for that STEM degree I'll drown myself in debt, but would it pay off? My mum says STEM and my dad says trade... who's advice do I take??? This shit is driving me fucking insane I REALLY don't want to make a mistake and end up like all the NEETS who've given up....
I would go for a trade. The payout is smaller but comes sooner, and you'll always be in demand.
Ur fucked, m8.
STEM is so broad as to be meaningless, what sort of STEM degree are you thinking about? What trade?
Go for trades, dont buy into the STEM meme
yes this
Use HECS debt faggot. Interest fee and payable at a certain earnings cap.
Go into trade. Also if you go the trade way, do something on the creative side and stay away from maintenance.
>Maintenance is soul crushing
>Especially in the auto industry
Listen to your father, he doesn't have his head up his ass like your lying cunt mother. Remember: All women are liars and whores, your mother and mine included.
Trades are noteiously rigorous work user... stem depends widely on your academic skills... it's really a choice you have to make because only you truly know yourself. Just choose and don't ever look back.
I'm in the same position.
I can do trade/university/military/business
I have 10k saved up, what should I do. I've been sitting at home playing video games and working 8 hour days at timhortons
STEM
Nice try.
Trade, you can still study once you're an established professional if you want to take it to the next level.
Go into a trade, Universities are fucked.
Which trade, I couldn't tell you
best of luck
Re: Welding, STEM trade.
Subject: Query
Back-light enclosure tarp with string lights to compensate for darker lenses on welding visor?
They're both good paths to riches. Trades can earn pretty good money and when you own your own business and become a subcontractor you can get a pretty decent living 150k+ per year or so. With engineering (I'm an engineer), you have to pretty much get some statutory tickets (further qualifications) or get into management to get 150k+ because vanilla engineers dont tend to earn past 100k+.
I did engineering I'm now almost 30 and I'm hating it. I got into it because I was good at maths and science in highschool but I always hated it and my dad pushed me to do it because his culture pushes for these sorts of careers in their kids. I now want to become a cop or something.
Dont worry about money though, both paths have options for big $$$$$ in Australia in my line of work I meet both tradies and engineers on very good money.
learn a trade first. get a good foundation with a trade you always find a job somewhere.
I learned 3 years to be a chef, after that i started going to UNI for IT shit while working 2-3shifts in a restaurant.
Woudl do again.
Oh and also if you go trade, you won't end up like a NEET. The country will always need men of skill.
As for STEM, you'll be employed, but how well depends on the degree.
Engineering is a no brainier, but you would have needed a good ATAR for that. I didn't get one, so I'm going into bach physics.
Also, you'd best get started with your preparations for uni if that's what you decide. You need to apply by the the back end of this month.
Be an electrician
wtf is trade
Life never pays off, learn to love the struggle.
Quite; and we need to know a bit more about OP too, some people are more suited for one and some for the other.
Having a job
I got offered a bachelors of engineering, but I've heard about how people jumping into trades like plumbing make almost the same as fucking doctors these days purely because the 10 years they spent in training the plumbers already had enough time to almost match them.
I actually checked the engineering courses of some top Australian universities and they are autistic.
I heard they actually changed it a few years back?
The line of careers that actually keeps the world working.
Do both
>Learn trade
>Get job
>Go to community college part time
>Transfer
Listen to your old man I got a trade when I left highschool and it has worked out well for me but i can also depend where you are
>STEM
Hard to get a job
It's comfy
You may make a lot
It has fucking nerds in it
Absolutely no attractive pussy
>Trade
There will always be trade jobs
It's hard work
You may make even more than STEM with your own company. They make a lot regardless
It has bogans
But no nerds
There's no pussy but at least your mates will take you out to get you laid
If you only have 2k then trade, you dumb foreigner
Get an in demand trade, save hard for 10 years. Start your own business and never be a wageslave again. If you play your cards right, by 35 years old you'll be set up.
IQ >130:
>STEM, but you better bust ass.
Otherwise:
>Trade. Your dad knows what's up, and probably thinks you're too retarded for STEM. Don't worry, it happens to the best of us.
listen to your dad skip. learn a trade realted to construction industry imo. at 25+ open your business, you will be able to retire by 40. Good luck, work hard for yourself.
FYI I bought the university meme and studied law. I'm completing my degree soon after taking a break. I wish I took a trade so fucking badly.
>18
>I have 2k in my savings account
lol, being poor must suck so fucking much.
Maybe he's saving his own money unlike you Swiss jew rat.
Uni = inevitable debt, inevitable stress for 3+ years, then you have to spend months finding a job when all the applications require previous experience. I was finally able to get a lab job only after volunteering my time in a different lab. Trade is the easier way to go, not a great pay rate to start but hey its better than 0$ /hr. I would advise only studying if you know 100% that is what you want to do but seeing as your 18 you probably have no clue. If you have to go with STEM then do something generic cause there are more job opportunities than if you specialise.
Dummer Bergjude, immer das selbe mit euch.
Kid, listen to me.
I went to engineering and had excellent grades. At that time I had to find a job to pay for my stay so I decided to go in sales. I was selling office equipment to companies.
After 2000 meetings I dropped engineering and switched to economy.
Reason ?
Engineering is an operative, means your knowledge will get drained and turn you into a smart physical worker. All engineering companies look like communist basements, there aren't any women at all and they all look like theyre 50 at the age of 30.
Economy lets you manipulate others, earn the same money (when they calculate average economists salary they dont add bonuses so it appears they earn less than engineers which is false), you will be in a decent office in a skyscraper surrounded by women.
My friends who finished engineering are now all dissatisfied even though they earn a lot of money, while I work in a nice office as an analyst.
Or hes like me and thinks STEM is bullshit, especially if we have a recession, plus STEM can be outsourced, most trades can not.
It hasn't really bothered me up until fucking now of course, it's pretty overwhelming being hit with all this reality at once
Trades are a bigger meme than STEM at this point.
OP you sound like you have about a 110 IQ go with a trade
ARMY
The worst scenario will be but emus
Go where your strength is. You good at using your hands--go trade. You a bookworm brainy type and excelled at any type of math--go stem.
already made 2k/month at 18 you lazy vodka drinking subhuman.
mad achmed? the welfare check came late this month? now gb2turkey
get a fucking job.
This faggot has good advice
Is there even a industry for STEM, outside of mining, in australia?
Plumbing.
Typical example of western university brainwash.
Is there a same thing on trade? After /sci/ I'm convinced that western STEM is a brainwash machine to make people believe in their elitism and advertise for their university, while having low professional qualities.
what?
Engineer here.
If you excel at maths and are willing to bust your ass, go with STEM. No, wait. Not if you excel at maths. If you LOVE them. Know, however, that unless you start and manage to maintain your own company in a highly competitive market, you're gonna be some guy's bitch.
Otherwise, go with a trade in one of the jobs that will always be in demand, like electrician or wielder plumber or stuff like that.
Though maybe the best thing I can say is: know yourself. Understand what you like and dislike, what you want and don't, what are your strengths and your weaknesses. Maybe even write it all down. That'll help you reach the best choice. But also make sure any goals you set are not fixed, but that you can have a lenient range of options depending on the paths you've followed and whether or not your efforts came to fruition (protip: they won't, most of the time).
Godspeed, Bruce.
Trade.
Just don't be a mechanic. I made that mistake...
Your universities produces even more elitists, Ivan.
t. someone who had several math courses from russian profs and phd's
OK, let's fucking settle this.
Digits decide for OP, STEM or trade
I say trade.
But ruskies got pretty solid ground to be cocky about their mathematics
TRADE
Go into trade. Had a buddy who dropped outta college half way through, neck deep in debt. 5 years later he's making very good money and he seems damn happy doing it. Good thing about trades is there's a shit ton to choose from. Just find something that interests you, stick with it work your way up.
Trade. Trust me.
I have a friend who picked STEM and now she is hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt. She is depressed as fuck and an alcoholic. She got a job right away that pays $6k+ a month but most of it goes to paying off her student debt. She wont be paying it off till 2034.
She thought the job would be different than from going to school. Nope its exactly the same. Shes miserable and works 4 days out of the week but theyre all 13+ hour days in a row.
Trade jobs can be studied for cheaply in community colleges. I graduated with no debt. Had a job lined up and i absolutely love it. Pick a trade you love.
Im an artist. I work for a website and i also do freelance work on the side. Like logo and character design. As well as hentai art commissions, which i absolutely love to do. I sell fanart merchandise at cons. And if you are good at what you do and have a lot of followers, companies will give you free shit so that you can post pics of it on instagram and tumblr etc. I got free digital pens from WACOM and a set of 30 markers from Copic. Free sketchbooks, pens, programs etc.
Trade skills are EASY to make money off of now because of social media. People will follow you if you have an interesting trade. Are you a blacksmith?? Do you make costumes? Do you play an instrument? People will follow you like crazy.
But no one is going to follow you if you are a mathmatician or doctor. Who gives a shit about those people? Especially when they can follow a blacksmith/welder who makes replicas of videogame swords?
At anime expo 2016, i was selling a body pillow cover design of a character for $50 each. I sold all 100 copies within the first 2 days. Made well over $8500+ during that weekend. I work whenever i want and im my own boss.
Get a trade skill.
English major
trade, stocks or curreny
play the jew game
win the world
Lets say I sucked at math during school because I was nigger tier lazy, actually kinda enjoyed it. Will I survive the physics course I will be entering in a months time if I bust my ass?
And I have a scarce social life, so I can bust my ass real good.
Was pretty good at physics in school tho.
>She wont be paying it off till 2034.
MURICA
Where / when / who? I've never seen our people bragging about their IQ, saying their department is better than others, etc. Maybe in the Saint-Petersburg that now is being infiltrated by western lovers... I'm studying with basically top mathematics students in Russia, and they are humble af. Not a sign of any bragging at anyone.
I watched that one Perelman documentary produced by russian TV, and Erik is right, Ivan.
All the russian academics interviewed there are such elitist, I don't even. And not just the highly successful college professors and scientists with hundreds of awards, but the highschool-level teachers interviewed were so high up there ass too...
Doing anything other than this means you're setting yourself up for failure.
>After you're done grade 10 (minimum grade needed for trade work) get signed up for any trade and work during the summers
>Finish high school and if done right you should be almost done your trade apprenticeship
>Studying various topics during your free time
>work in your trade for about 3-4 years following the 5 laws of gold.
>go to school for a topic you enjoy and can profit from
>Own 3 houses by the time you're 30 and go to work because you want to not because you have too.
Oh also learn programming even if it's just C so people mistaken you for being smart
How about an Arts degree?
I'm thinking Indonesian History.
I'd suggest STEM with related job on the side. Flood you social media with degree/field related jobs, hobbies and shit your doing or participating in for future background checks.
>you sound like you have about a 110 IQ
You sound like you have green eyes
How can you be good at physics without being good at math?
Knowing math is always a benefit in every STEM degree/job (except Biology).
Perelman is from Saint-Petersburg, he is a Jew, and he mainly worked with western academics so kind of combo. But even with all that, he declined his prize because he knew that Hamilton deserved that too.
As someone who teaches in the STEM fields... there are only a couple of STEM degrees worth it.
1. Electrical Engineering
2. Computer Engineering
3. Chemical Engineering
4. Petroleum Engineering
Any one of these four, you will get sucked out of school an into a job pretty fast.
Bad news is each of these degrees has about a 60% burn out / fail rate before graduation.
Unless you are hot on math, know how to study, and are sure you won't waste any cash...
Do trade school until you afford to try a STEM degree that really interest you.
If you were nigger-tier lazy in school, you'll have a hard time busting your ass now. You'll most likely have the habit already formed.
But if you manage to break the habit, and I don't have an advice on how to, you'll do fine if you truly enjoy maths. If you can grab an algebra book, get some exercises and start solving for hours, just for fun, you'll do great.
But if that's not the case, if the nigger tier lazy habit is too strong or you don't autistically love maths, you'll just go in debt and drop out after a couple of years of being unable to keep up.
But again, the only person who knows what's best for you is yourself. Just analyze what I said (your likes and dislikes, desires and aversions, strengths and weaknesses), and draw a path from those.
Why do Russian technical universities rank so low internationally?
Trade. Ez money you can always go back to uni if you really want.
I am "good" at math, I was just very, very lazy during mathematics in school. Well, less lazy, and more "going through some shit".
I'm confident that I am capable.
I can do a math course that will get me up to speed call math105, but my question was essentially asking if I will survive even with that.
Couldn't find my dog barfing picture, so here's a token Donald instead.
If you're worried about it, don't go into debt. Start earning now. Computers will replace more and more STEM fields sooner than robots will replace Tradeskill.
What if your IQ is exactly 130?
Yeah, and the people they interviewed, all who were related to Perelman's academic upbringing in russian academia, were the very concept of elitism.
Watch the documentary, Sergay. It's on youtube.
Trade. Something like pipefitting or welding. Then get a government job with a pension. Make them pay for night school.
If can't find a government job, always be in a union.
stem all the way, trade is only viable option when havent got the mental capability for stem
>Computers will replace more and more STEM fields sooner
Do you even know what STEM jobs are?
You from NSW?
I got memed into STEM, its really interesting stuff, but to monetize it is really immoral in its current state. Unless you can monetize is it on the market of course, but when you go into academia you are depended on government subsidies, which comes from taxes which is theft. Its a shame because some of the best people are academics, but the sector is severely corrupted and politicized.
STEM is hit or miss.
Trades are always miss.
When STEM is miss, you will want to die. With trades it's just a shitty job, no one likes shitty jobs.
Software development, where most of the STEM jobs are (even for mechanical engineers) is extremely low stress unless you're not actually meant to be in STEM.
Kind of why affirmative action is so horrible, you can't lower standards for STEM because the people that get into STEM at these standards will hate everything. STEM is brilliant but only if you're above anything it throws at you, the best way to keep these people happy is simply to keep the dumb people out and have a lot of smart people bragging about who came up with the best solution. It's just an intellectual pissing contest.
Basically, don't do STEM unless you're relatively smart and somewhat creative. If you are, congratulations you've just realised the best career ever.
But to "empowered womyn who can do anything boys do," to the "i don't give a fuck just give high paying jobs" and the "wait, isn't it really easy to """sit""" at a desk all day" people, literally don't. You're shit, you'll make things shit for the people actually meant to be there.
Yeah, she's the token woman. She hates it because she's shit, STEM work is almost fun when you're good at it but you absolutely have to be good at it.
Affirmative action is the only bad thing about STEM. I'm sorry, but under no circumstances should a low or regular IQ person enter STEM, you're asking for a really shitty life.
>into a job fast
No.
Youth unemployment is high, there's lots of competition and any medium to large business are basically hiring with people who care more about identity than source repositories.
It's not uncommon to be unemployed for years as a white male graduate. Don't get dissuaded if this turns out to be you.
There is a logical problem with expecting compuers to replace computer programmers. I don't expect you to understand.
>But if you manage to break the habit
Done. I butchered the HSC.EZ PZ
>autistically love maths
I autistically love physics and the math surrounding it. Is that good enough?
I'm just happy that you didn't outright say I'm fucked, because that's how I'm feeling right now. Then again, I was sure I wouldn't get an offer from a uni.
>If you can grab an algebra book, get some exercises and start solving for hours, just for fun, you'll do great.
This is something I can turn over in my head for a while. If that's the mentality I need, I can adopt it.
>I REALLY don't want to make a mistake and end up like all the NEETS who've given up
You really don't. Trust me.
Get a trade. It's something to fall back on, you can go for STEM anytime.
Same reason only one non-Jewish soviet man received Fields medals and Mendeleev didn't receive Nobel Prize?
Go for a trade you dumb cunt, apprentice wages are shit tier but assuming your living with family it's not bad, you'll have money for booze, sluts and your car. You'll still be in your early 20s when you finish and making more money then any of your friends or family.
I'd honestly recommend grabbing a cert or two in whatever field you're interested in, and getting a job with that for a while to build experience.
After a couple years of that (2 minimum should be good), if you want to expand on your education for higher pay opportunities, go for it.
You'll get your degree AND have experience under your belt, which is huge when considering applicants. Plus, you'll have real-world experience before regularly attending college, which is in very short supply these days.
If you don't already have an interest in a specific STEM field, then a trade is probably better. I don't regret going into STEM, but my situation was uniquely favorable, and someone who had to pay more for their schooling might not have benefited as much. Also, in my field (software development), you don't really need a degree to get a job, you just need to be able to build a portfolio and pass technical interviews.
This guy gets it.
Trade trust me. Get a trade.
Look, again, only you can be the best judge.
I won't advice you to go into STEM. That would be irresponsible. But if after considering all the facts about both your personality and the nature of the degree you'll follow you find they match, then you'll know my opinion doesn't matter, and you'll go for it.
If, on the other hand, after careful consideration you're still not entirely sure, then drop the STEM idea.
And there's always the third choice: Go to college during the weekdays and trade school during the weekends. A cousin of mine did, and his mechanic training worked great with his robotics degree.
>drown yourself in debt
M8 you don't even have to pay HECS until you earn over a threshold amount, which is something like 50-60k a year. The interest is incredibly low.
This isn't the US.
>Mendeleev didn't receive Nobel Prize
Wow, this actually made me sad again.
But I thought STEM is the only non-jewed field left.
You don't understand how helpful this shit really is, thanks so much for the advice guys.