Obamacare vs Medicaid

Can someone explain to me why liberals are going nuts at the thought of Obamacare being replaced? I'm being serious here. Why wouldn't Medicaid cover needy people who need healthcare if it were to be repealed. I don't remember bodies littering the streets due to people being without insurance before Obamacare was passed. Why do they think that millions of people are just going to be abandoned to die? That never happened before. Or am I the one who's incorrect? Wtf is Medicaid if not Healthcare aid for people in need?

I forgot Sup Forums is nothing but full time shitposts now. My mistake.

They believe they were closing in on their utopian ideal with Obama's policies in the Affordable Care Act. They believe that the policies that European countries currently use or a derivative up to universal health care is the solution. They believe we are always one law or action away from recreating an episode of Captain Planet. Health care can be socialized or it can paid privately through individuals. Frankly I don't give a fuck anymore just want to see the world burn.

It's fucking 6-9 in the morning, most Americans are still fast asleep with their qt 3.14 white wives right now.

my wife's going to have to spend a lot on birth control now, cause we fuck a lot rawdog. so that sucks.

Before Obamacare you were either on Medicaid or you just showed up at the hospital emergency room and they treated you. You then ignored the $8000 bill.

The whole point of Obamacare was to make healthy young people contribute to the cost of health care for those who need it.

It was a tax from start to finish, but it makes sense.

Obamacare is currently subsidizing insurance policies for people who live in states where Medicaid did NOT expand, meaning Medicaid will not help you if you're over 18 and not pregnant.

Only a handful of states have a state based marketplace (SBM), and even fewer have expanded Medicaid to help broader numbers lower income peoples get medical services.

Trump's proposed "new" system is capitalistic anarchy. Total deregulation. Just let a bunch of companies handle it.
Which means for you slow brains, that private health corporations will happily make deal to fuck citizens in the ass again and offer a terrible service to the 90% of the population who can't afford better
It's NEVER "for the people" when you let the private sector run freely something as important as healthcare.

>Obamacare is currently subsidizing insurance policies for people who live in states where Medicaid did NOT expand,


this is not true. I know because I live in one of those states. the medicaid expansion was to cover those below the federal poverty line. In my state, if I say my income will be one dollar below the federal poverty line, the cost is the same that a millionaire would pay. This year it's over $1000 per month.

So, If I expect to make 9000 dollars this year, the web site tells me that my premiums will be over $12000, and if I do not pay that I still have to pay the fine.

Yes, if you're below the FPL then you are routed to Medicaid, but medicaid will not help you. You're better off lying and saying you will make 12k.

>You're better off lying and saying you will make 12k.

which is exactly what I did in 2016. I'm waiting to get my forms so I can see how that plays out when I file my taxes.

It's idiotic. When I call them and ask about this, they read off the screen "if your income changes, let us know as soon as possible".

And I say that my income is sporadic, and I honestly do not know until late in the year if I am poverty level or not. the blindly repeat the above statement. so i ask, if I hit the end of the year and did not qualify, will i have to pay any of those huge subsidies back?

"I don't know sir, I'll have someone call you".

and they never do.

so I called Blue Cross. they told me to ask my TAX ATTORNEY.

it's pure comedy.

The theory is that competition will drive prices down though. Obviously if every single insurance provider makes a deal with every other provider they could potentially do as you say. But I'm not an expert and there very well could be some sort of law preventing that. For all I know right now, insurance providers have already made a deal with Big Pharma and hospitals and medical equipment producers etc to make sure healthcare is too expensive so that insurance is a necessity. Some of the prices that certain things cost is a bit ridiculous. Simply seeing a doctor and having him put a stethoscope on your chest probably costs like $800. Also nobody ever brings up Trumps proposed HSAs where you can put money away tax-free and allow family members to use any other family members account and the ability to pass it on after death without penalty.

>Also nobody ever brings up Trumps proposed HSAs where you can put money away tax-free and allow family members to use any other family members account and the ability to pass it on after death without penalty.

which is just another way of saying that upper income people will be fine, poverty shits will be fine, but working class will still get screwed.

Liberals pretend that existing benefits don't exist when it's convenient for them to get guilt people into supporting even more benefits.

That's why they're able to collect $800 dollars a month worth of food welfare from various programs PER KID plus free breakfast, lunch, and dinner for their kids at school.

>That's why they're able to collect $800 dollars a month worth of food welfare from various programs PER KID plus free breakfast, lunch, and dinner for their kids at school.

and you still hear unbelievable stats like "one of four americans is not getting enough to eat".

I want to see these millions of starving americans. where do they hide?

Upper income people have always been fine though. The way I understand it, is it would allow people who are younger and working to put money away without tax while they don't need comprehensive healthcare and in the future this account would be used to cover their premiums when they are at a higher risk of having a Healthcare issue where they would actually use their insurance.

I mean how common are instances where poor people genuinely need healthcare but Medicaid tells them to fuck off and figure out how to pay it back on their own. I honestly have no idea of that happens. Like I said I don't remember bodies filling the streets with poor dead people.

not a bad idea IN THEORY. but it has always been true that if a person invests a rather paltry amount from every paycheck their entire working life, they will literally have millions in todays dollars. but how many 22 year olds who can not afford a nice apartment and car and phone plan and clothes and dates and etc., actually ever did that?

the truth is, young healthy people have to be forced to contribute to healthcare, no matter how it is structured. tell me you will match my contributions 10:1 when I'm drooling over that hot motorcycle or whatever. the money goes to the bike, not my cancer care decades in the future.

Before the ACA it wasn't enough just to be poor to get Medicaid - you needed to be disabled, pregnant, or a minor to get it. If you weren't any of those, then your only option was to go to the ER, where they just treat your immediate condition (wound triage and/or pain pills), and send you on your way. For anything more complex that couldn't be fixed with stitches or a pill, you were pretty much screwed.

You show up at an emergency room if you have cancer?

How does that work?

Just like in canada then.

>How does that work?

you go up to the desk and show them something that indicates you are sick. blood coming out of some orifice, or visible tumors.

before Obamacare, american health care was brutal. you have a child who develops leukemia, and you literally go bankrupt because they could cancel your policy once it maxed out. or have high blood pressure and not be able to purchase insurance at any cost.

obamacare sucks, but it's an improvement.

one problem with most societies is the reluctance to let grandma die. we spend literally millions to keep some decrepit body alive 10 more worthless years because nobody wants to "play god".

What if it's an illness such as cancer and not something like a sever laceration or broken bone from a car accident. Obamacare didn't really affect me too much so I don't know all that much about it. I'm only 26 so don't really know all there is to know about health insurance. But if the United States is a first world nation we should be able to take care of people like this. I just see people going nuts saying how thousands or millions of people will receive a death sentence if Obamacare gets the axe

>I just see people going nuts saying how thousands or millions of people will receive a death sentence if Obamacare gets the axe

but it was never that way before.

people with no insurance or medicare or medicaid were treated and the cost was passed on to other patients.

the whole point of obamacare was to pressure healthy young people to pay into the healthcare system.

the rage-inducing part is that everyone knows that larger insurance pools work far better than small ones. and guess what. every other developed nation has ONE FUCKING POOL, because even common core math shows that national health care, aka single-payer, is better than 100 insurance companies that do nothing but skim money off the system.

She's a total MILF, 2bh

Except for those waiting lines, of course. If you're in no hurry to cure your cancer, go for it! Come to Brazil!

Or the actual quality of care. If you like doctors with 20 years of experience being completely unable to stitch a simple wound on a finger after you've been waiting 8 hours to see said doctor, come to Canada!

>Friend texts me during a drunken rant in the middle of the night since I made a passing comment about Trump that day
>Says he is pissed about me even supporting him because hes worried he will lose his healthcare and care barely afford his epipen as it is

Do people seriously believe they're going to just repeal it then ignore the situation for years while people are dying? It doesn't work that way outside of leftist spin.

But aren't there restrictions on health care providers so that in certain areas there is only one provider and they can do as they please without consequence? Wouldn't *fair* competition between privately funded providers drive prices down if that were true?

It's not an improvement if you're making to much to qualify for medicaid But not enough to afford real insurance. I was literally doing fine before all of this shit when I joined the work force in 2013 . I have a degree and everything but I have done enough at my company to earn more than 40k a year. Before this my PPE was cheap and I could afford gas and housing, etc.now . You people still don't understand that before this if I child had cancer there were programs like chip, and church donation s if the retarded family couldn't have atleast one bread winner.You fucking doomed as all and you get nothing!

>Come to Brazil!

>come to Canada!

and now we have come full circle.

it's either "everyone has poor care", which sounds like soviet russia or communist china, or "the rich and the very poor get great care", which is capitalism with a small welfare net.

i feel like eating a burger.

>people with no insurance or medicare or medicaid were treated and the cost was passed on to other patients
If you had a long-term or chronic disease, you had no recourse to get treatment, apart from going to the ER whenever your symptoms got too much to bear.

If you could prove (in front of an actual judge) that you were disabled, then you could get Medicaid, but proving disability is a long and difficult process in itself, and most people are denied at least once.

>Wouldn't *fair* competition between privately funded providers drive prices down if that were true?

this is the hope, and it seems valid.

my life sucks too.

I think I'll have another cheeseburger.

I mean they haven't said how they will replace it yet. Don't get me wrong I voted trump and he said he's gonna replace it but they only things he's said as of yet is he wants to increase competition and to allow people to save money tax free and to pass it along to family members without penalty. That's it as far as I can tell. Your friend most likely isn't getting insurance free of charge. He's gotta be paying something unless he's living in a shoebox. Could he afford insurance premiums before Obamacare? Did he sign up because if he didn't he would be fined? Like what stopped him from having insurance before this law?

I don't ask him because he doesnt want to talk about it. Hes been unemployed for ages and lives with his GF who has a job. Partially his fault, but still.

>. Don't get me wrong I voted trump

same here, but I'm getting increasingly nervous about the ability of our government to deliver on his grandiose promises.

one more burger and I'll be fine.

Should you be worried about Congress' willingness to cooperate though, or the grandiose plans actually being impossible to implement in the first place?

That's a whole different topic that's completely valid but if you bring it up, you'll be called a horrible person. That your friend made his own choices. If there was a way to quantify the people who genuinely got dealt a poor hand and need help, or people who are dumb and fucked up or were too lazy to get their shit together. Healthcare is really the only thing I don't have a real opinion on though because I don't know enough about it.

both. did you listen to the inaugural address yesterday? he literally said we would eradicate radical islamic terrorism from the entire world, among other more vague promises of an idyllic future.

and as for congress, they talk a lot and spend a lot of money, but as for getting things accomplished, meh.

Just get an IUD

OK but honestly whomever takes that goal literally is fooling themselves and even Trump knows that's not possible. There's a billion people on earth who practice that religion. I took that statement as him saying he along with Congress will take steps greater than the previous administrations to prevent terrorism in the United States and the rest of the world. Basically it means that he wants to dismantle ISIS. That's how I took that statement. Some may say I'm rationalizing his lies but every president says things that sound better than what their plan of action will lead to.

>don't need healthcare because young, healthy, not a moron
>forced to get insurance or pay a penalty to the IRS

And you wonder why millennials aren't buying houses? Stop bleeding us dry to pay for your grandma who didn't bother to save for retirement.

>There's a billion people on earth who practice that religion
We just need to educate them.

But plenty of millenials are out in the streets fighting to be forced to pay for health insurance. It seems that the majority of my generation feels this way. They're the ones out there saying because trump was elected that millions are doomed because they will have their insurance stripped away.

But... they can go out and purchase insurance voluntarily... do they not know that?

Why don't any of you fucking idiots realize that the real problem is basic supply-demand, the demand for drugs, medical supplies, and doctors is SO much higher than the supply... because the entry costs to get into those industries are astronomical.

Therefore, almost nobody can afford to become a doctor, it literally costs hundreds of thousands of dollars on top of 8+ years of your life. It would be exponentially cheaper for the government to subsidize the schooling for aspiring doctors, medical engineers, etc. and thus raise the supply of that labor, than to subsidize the retardedly bloated prices that exist right now.

Also, reduce regulation on the drug industry, and force insurers to compete or face penalties.

Boom I just fixed the healthcare industry.

It's more so for the people who can't afford it as far as I understand it. Just about everyone's healthcare costs went up while some people get free care. People got less choices when it comes to providers now, employers laid off workers, cut hours and voluntarily refuse to grow their business so that they don't have to pay for employees insurance. Doctors are taking less patients and cutting their own hours, so wait times increase and obviously there's less choice when it comes to doctors now in theory quality of care decreased. The middle class takes a hit from all sides though.

>It's more so for the people who can't afford it as far as I understand it.
But we had something for them already. It's called medicaid.

Stop funding massive student loans. Then tuition will go down.

I think that's more the issue. The costs of health care itself to the point where simple procedures end up costing thousands of dollars. Fixing that along with introducing more competition among insurance companies and drug companies and people that produce medical equipment etc would benefit everyone.

That's what I said but I don't understand enough about it because I obviously don't need it. People in this thread have said that income alone doesn't qualify someone for Medicaid. And that Obamacare helped expand it to people based purely on income?

I think a problem is that if you have a chronic illness insurance providers can deny you coverage.

>It's called medicaid
See