The Make Movement- a movement where people use their free time to work outside their profession- is a continuation of societal collapse.
Civilization exists because we rely on each other's specialization.
The Maker Movement is people thinking that they can do their hobbies better than others can do their jobs.
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eh, rich people want exclusive stuff, so I can see the merit in average people making stuff themselves so they can have exclusive stuff
if it was all about quality and utility nobody would buy designer bags
>implying most professions are mostly trivial with schematics and software
I'm not paying some wrench jockey $1100 to replace my pads and rotors when I can do it myself for $350 and an afternoon.
Fuck your retarded thread
The Maker Movement is not about rich people getting exclusive goods- it's abut people making their own products, often of negligible usefulness.
Or men that enjoy keeping their money and have no problem with learning a new skill to expand their horizons.
Knowing things is actually quite useful, cuck.
There is an art to most professions.
>> I'm not paying some wrench jockey $1100 to replace my pads
Your mistake is paying $750 in labor when it's a 1.5 hour job...
>think it would be cool to build something myself instead of buying it
>SOCIETY IS COLLAPSING AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
If a man can make more money in the Maker Movement, then that should be his job.
But if he makes more money at his job, then he should use said funds to buy stuff instead of making it.
that's great but try reading comprehension first
The Maker Movement is degenerate, and anti-civilization.
To say that it's cool to make something means that less-efficiently building something makes on happy (is cool). Thus, one is happy being inefficient...prettymuch happiness in achieving less than one could with an equal amount of effort.
> average people making stuff themselves so they
When you say "they," you are referring to "people," not "rich people."
Go back to school leaf.
the day of the rake cannot come soon enough
That day is coming soon- the day of the hoe was just last week- your mom says hi.
real clever
about as clever as your thread
Why? He could save his money and use it towards something that can't be easily made on his free time.
Spending money "just because" is why the boomers were entirely nigger rich and failed to prepare for retirement in the slightest.
And thus the leaf learned why auto manufacturers have started designing shit that requires proprietary tools that don't sell to anyone other than their own dealerships.
>then he should use said funds to buy stuff instead of making it.
Yes goy, become a willing debt slave to society. Work hard to afford loans to buy new products to fund (((our))) economy!
The real redpill is that any true man desiring "freedom" should invest in self-sufficiency.
When you enjoy a hobby, you lose.
Auto Manufacturers don't want idiots screwing up their car and giving the brand/make a bad name.
>ignorant leaf
The maker movement is a group of people thinking their red pilled creations have more capabilities then the blue pilled university funded creations/paths, in genres such as: alternative power, herbal medicines, food production, home production.. etc With a thought process possibly based on the idea that technologies to the public are being artificially limited for corporate and financial gain.
Moving away from monoculture systems in every possible situation. Decentralizing by removing the middle man that is the top dog at a corporation. Using the advances in technology to bring back productions to the individual..
The first logical step to freedom and destruction of the system you faggot.
I am unsure what your first paragraph is.
What I'm saying is that a person should do what makes him the most money- and instead of doing X hours of Maker Movement hobby, devote X hours to their real job.
No one is self-sufficient, unless they live alone in a forest.
Brakes haven't changed significantly in the last 100 years. Pretty sure Joe Bag of Donuts can figure it out.
Self reliance reduces the fragility of civilization.
That is literal cuck thinking. If you want to make actual money, you INVEST.
You will NEVER make more money working a career than you will if you invest.
And if you invest correctly with the proper amount, you could in theory retire early and live a life of leisure/travel/whatever you desire.
A hobby is something that one does poorly. Why waste time when one can do what they're best at?
Hobbies happen off the clock. That's why they're hobbies.. and not jobs.
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>Sometimes I think this is why people seem to be more interested in primitive stuff, it's repressed but comes out in trivial ways.
> For example survival games, farming, building simple societies are all becoming popular (Minecraft, Rimworld etc). Also a lot of popular media now is based around kingdoms/tribes (Game of Thrones) because people yearn for a simpler society where they can be part of a tribe and they have a culture to identify with, rather than this cognitive dissonance clusterfuck where you have to empathise with every person on the planet equally - this might be the ethical option, but I don't think our brains are evolved enough yet to handle it.
>This is probably all bullshit but I wonder if even though living in a primitive society would obviously be horrible, colder, more dangerous, we still yearn for it because then we would actually feel like we are fighting for our own community - just growing food to help your own family and local society, or defending it from invaders or whatever, doesn't cause any cognitive dissonance because we are aware that what we're doing helps us survive. Whereas doing stuff on a computer all day, we might have the knowledge about how that's helping someone somewhere but our brain can't process this as being positive for our state of being.
But a mistake (even over tighening, or damaging rubber brake line) can easily lead to fatalities.
Which is what I advocate. Unless you want to participate in the current society whose trajectory is that of 3rd world banana republic with a majority poor debt slave class.
Civilization is how people cooperate.
And the better you can do your job, the rarer you are, and the more stable your position is.- the opposite is true of people in the Maker Movement.
there will always be plebs, whether they are hobbyist plebs or wage slave plebs.
i see your point op, diy types are weird as fuck. like, just do your hands on hobby don't advertise it.
Nigga what the fuck? The brake lines are all high pressure steel tubing.
Who the fuck let you out of the cuck shed?
You'd know if you busted the brake line.
Use a torque wrench. It took me longer in my garage to do the job than the shop, quite a bit as I just have a bottle jack and some jack stands and can't lift the entire truck up to chest high. It still only takes about 30-40 minutes per wheel
The maker movement is happening because the west lost a lot of manufacturing..its all gone to china. People buy a product and it falls appart..so they decide to build their own.
Making stuff is about as red pilled as you can get, faggots.
>You will NEVER make more money working a career than you will if you invest.
Save for inheriting $400,000+, working is most profitable than investing. And without an inheritance, working is required to invest.
It's degenerate to think that one should/can only work X hours. A real worker dedicates his life to his craft.
Natural disasters etc. will be far more destructive if everyone needs to wait for a professional to save them. Particularly if said disaster damages the ability of professionals to get to the people they need to help (eg flooding)
Advertising it has been great. People can learn to do shit just from watching some cock sucker on Youtube.
It used to be if you wanted to pick up some skill you either needed to take a class or have a friend that did X as a job. The internet has been great at demystifying a bunch of low-brow labor jobs.
Sounds like a person who does not know the meaning of money.
Check out Francisco's Money Speech from Atlas Shrugged.
Yeah no. If you're salaried you work 8 hours.
If you're salaried and work as engineer, you work until the project/task is done.
Doing anything more makes you an idiot.
>The brake lines are all high pressure steel tubing.
False. With drum brakes, maybe. But no modern cars have drum brakes on front- most not even on the back.
Your premise is flawed. Hobbies are rewarding because you not only have "fun" with them, but you usually improve over time if you practice more than once a year. Most hobbies are not intrinsically lucrative and most careers are not 24/7 grinds toward job mastery.
You might as well ask why people bother reading.
>You'd know if you busted the brake line.
Not if you do so by twisting it.
but if you are self sufficient enough you do not need civilization to survive, to gain your food and shelter from. Instead you can participate in civilization but with out being forced to work for some other faggots goals just to keep participating.
This maker movement is not that, but it wont break society, it will just ween out the losers who can't properly manage the basics with out a civilization to spell it out for them.
...you are on Sup Forums. You have had to work to pay for your internet. Advocate for others only?
The maker movement is happening because the west lost a lot of manufacturing..its all gone to china.
Quality items can still be bought- just for more than China's price.
Ive invested quite a lot of my time into this maker movement stuff. Id rather not explain how, to save my anonymity. Ive basically been around the block several times re the maker movement from events and organizations and jobs.
Yeah its not that good. The people who cling onto the maker movement stuff dont actually make anything. Its like this identity of being handy and engineering-savvy, but no one is actually following through on the making things bit.
Seriously, what the fuck are you talking about. Brake lines have been high pressure steel for fucking decades.
You're taking "not knowing what I'm talking about on the internet" to new levels.
Step one: fill bucket.
Step two: empty bucket
Any retard can empty the water from his basement.
No reason to go salaried- might as well bend over for him when he hires you.
You guys are reading way too much into this. Maker movement arent destroying specialization and therefore destroying civilization. Its just dudes who take a week end to play with electronics. Its just as much of a detriment to their profession as spending a week end to watching television, or literally anything.
>Dumb fucking leaf doesn't know what a drainage system is either or a submersible pump.
God fucking damn, just because you're dumber than a bag of goat shit doesn't mean the rest of us are.
Fuck yourself cancuck.
Hobbiests are far and few and generally aren't afraid to drop a load of dough on their hobby. Ie buying really nice radio equipment for a ham radio setup, or really nice RC parts, or a band saw, or a steering wheel with gas pedal for racing simulators etc.
These people aren't stealing jobs from anyone. If theyve gained the knowledge to fix/build their own shit why would they waste time and/or money by getting a "professional" to do the same thing?
>Most hobbies are not intrinsically lucrative
Jobs are not enjoyed b/c the work is fun- the reward is solving problems for others. Thus I'm unsure why hobbies can be good- when what you're doing is creating problems for yourself.
> most careers are not 24/7 grinds toward job mastery.
There is always more to learn about most jobs that are not minimum wage.
Working hourly is shit that only applies in the under 6 figure territory.
>This maker movement is not that, but it wont break society, it will just ween out the losers who can't properly manage the basics with out a civilization to spell it out for them.
...if shtf, they will be weeded out?
>The people who cling onto the maker movement stuff dont actually make anything.
So it's just an appearnce thing?...like when girls claim to be 'geeks' for watching Dr.Who?
high quality leaf-posting
Specialisation is for insects.
If you can't cook, do basic hydraulic, mechanical, electrical repairs, sew... and do thousands other things you are nu-male, FACT!
They are rubber between the car and the front wheels- so that they car can steer.
>Its just as much of a detriment to their profession as spending a week end to watching television
So you're saying it's bad...
This is basically Ted Kaczynski's point.
People nowadays don't see the connection between their work and the food on their table, hell they don't see the connection between their work and the table itself which influences quite a lot of them negatively.
It's actually interesting how something as mundane as "making" something is now a trendy subculture with its very own set of hyped products, hyped YouTube celebrities, and hyped up politicians (Obama mentioned 3D printing in his 2013 SotU address).
OP is correct in that 99% of hobbyists won't make a product as efficiently or competently as a commercial manufacturer. However, ideally the other 1% will go on to start new industrial ventures that put some wind back in the sails of the West's economy. The R&D they do and the money they spend will be ultimately beneficial to us. The Maker Movement could either be a really shitty fad and a sign of social decay, or the prelude to our next industrial revolution.
Eat another burger Amerifat.
>These people aren't stealing jobs from anyone.
Never said that. What I did say is that they are wasting their time.
Salary is only good when you have some power- ie only 1/1000 people can do your job.
No you northern nincompoop, I am saying its as bad. So if watching TV isnt bad, neither are hobbies. You decide.
They misunderstand what money represents. And if they can't grasp that, then they might as well join a small tribe (in order to feel important).
>owever, ideally the other 1% will go on to start new industrial ventures
Agree, but I don't think that many have a chance of doing this- that is, more people are partipating than just those who stand a chance to succeed.
Are you saying that because I compose music in my free time I'm causing society to collapse? If so, that's nonsense.
Watching TV is degenerate af.
People don't understand the math behind their mortgages either and you're not telling them to join the tribe because of it.
>Are you saying that because I compose music in my free time I'm causing society to collapse?
No, just saying that your music-making is self-serving- that it's a form of narcisism mixed with delusion.
You say that people don't see the logic behind work/food- they don't understand that serving others makes others serve you, and because of this they don't feel good for doing their job. I hardly see how a mortgage is realted.
That's beneficial though. That's what drives competition.
A FUCKING LEAF
And who are you to judge me? You don't know me. I am my own man, and my time is mine to do with as I please, so you can fuck right off.
>That's what drives competition.
...competition among idiots though.
Judging is human, it's natural, it's reflexive.
> and my time is mine to do with as I please, so you can fuck right off.
You're declaring the right to your time while saying that I should fuck off with my time...you're saying that your time is your time, and that my time is your time. Fuck off commie.
In the past many designers started as a factory clerks and showed a talent for engineering. Nowadays if you'd ask any HR department if they would hire a trade schooler as a head designer they would only laugh at you because "lol he stupid, doesn't have a formal degree!". Not that there are many factories left anyway.
The biggest problems which people fail to understand that for every Tesla, Brunel or J.M. Browning there was ten of thousand of people who invented something once, got a patent for it and then did nothing worthwhile for the rest of their life, and yet due to their sheer quantity the tinkers with "no chance to succeed" who in fact - didn't succeed, helped to drive the world forward.
Indeed, that maybe 1:1000 of the people working in it have and understand.
The maker movement is civilization you dumb fuck. When people reminiscent how back in the day things were cheaper etc. they tend to forget that most car fixes and most things around the house you could or did yourself.
The "specialization" literally came from big businesses so they could milk people for their cash. This is why you have all the non standard screws in machinery, and non standard parts. This is why certain things are made obtuse on purpose. This is why you are not getting patterns and plans with your electronics nowadays.
Its still just as easy to fix a tv as it was 50 years ago. Probably even easyer since the tools needed are so widespread. But the companies intentionally dont want you to fix issues that you would have to spend 2$ and 5 minutes on, because the alternative is you buying a new TV for 300$+
>a movement where people use their free time to work outside their profession
What's the problem here? You said yourself people are continuing in their specialised professions, just picking up practical hobbies. That sounds better than them watching TV or whatever normies do.
>That sounds better than them watching TV
so...still not good at all. "My gf started selling herself...but at least she used a condom."
Unless this leafs job involves shitposting, it is being a hypocrite.
Leaf, why arent you at lord shekelsteins sweatshop tryin to design child friendly machines?
You mean people with worthless patents?
kys no personality faggot.
This is the most blatantly jewish thread I've ever seen on this board. "Drumpfkin" shills, CTR, JIDF and even the average Israeli poster cannot possibly hold a menorah to the overwhelming jewery epoused by the OP.
Don't learn new skills it's bad.
Don't make things for yourself, pay for it.
Don't repair things, just replace it.
Give up your money for superfluous products, stay dumb and unskilled.
No subtlety at all. Jesus.
>naturalistic fallacy
We moved past doing what's 'natural' a long time ago.
I didn't say you should do anything with your time, I said you can. And even if I said you should, that doesn't mean I'm claiming your time as mine. You should spend your time reading a book, dumbass.
>This is why you are not getting patterns and plans with your electronics nowadays.
Or perhaps it's because people are more productive nowadays, so instead people can do their main job instead of trying to be a jack of all trades.
>> they tend to forget that most car fixes and most things around the house you could or did yourself.
This happened because people were not able to get extra work- which is easier or harder today, depending on one's work.
>The Make Movement- a movement where people use their free time to work outside their profession- is a continuation of societal collapse.
this could easily be a party official line from 1984
you genius
>> Unless this leafs job involves shitposting, it is being a hypocrite.
True, what I'm doing belongs to intellectuals. But they are dishonest, and thus such discussion canno tbe left to them. The same cannot be said of your local mechanic.
That is the worst analogy I've ever seen and has nothing to do with anything. What's the actual problem with this?
At present most people waste away their free time in totally non-productive passtimes. Suddenly people are saying it's cool to do something practical instead, which not only means they're acquiring new skills but are also more personally satisfied by how they spend their free time. You said yourself they're still doing their actual jobs, so where's the issue?
>Don't learn new skills it's bad.
False. Just said to specialise, not be a jack of all trades.
>Don't make things for yourself, pay for it.
Do what makes you the most money.
>Don't repair things, just replace it.
Repairing things is inefficient- a $1000 TV can be produced and shipped for $50- that is why you buy warranty (so that the manufacturer can send you replacement fro $100 instead you you spending 5 hours and $100 fixing it).
>Give up your money for superfluous products, stay dumb and unskilled.
False. False.
>We moved past doing what's 'natural' a long time ago.
But out brains still respond to such environment. The way around it is to rationalize all situations- which we are ill-equipped to do.
>At present most people waste away their free time in totally non-productive passtimes.
When people watch TV, they know they're wasting time. The danger is that 'makers' think that they are accomplishign something- they are being delusional- which is dangerious.
Seems like you're implying that we should then just do whatever's easiest and never try to better ourselves or rise above our base instincts.
Keep strawmanning.
I'm saying that it's silly to spend time maing $X when one can spend time making $X+1.