Are you opposed to Universal Healthcare? It seems to work out for other countries...

Are you opposed to Universal Healthcare? It seems to work out for other countries. Why would it be so bad to have a system like that in America? Genuinely curious.

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Because it requires a nanny state. In order to keep costs down govt will have to try to force healthy behavior - you are already seeing this with taxes on soda in bigger cities, but if we had full universal healthcare that would just be the beginning.

People can either be free to choose to do risky things and indulge, and pay for the risks themselves; or they can have their health taken care of by the govt, but have their behavior thoroughly regulated and taxed.

Obviously all the ex-serfs in Europe don't have such a problem with being told what to do by the state, but no self-respecting American would accept the same.

So basically with that kind of system in order to keep costs down (which will more than likely be high enough already) they'd force everyone to eat healthier/be healthier through varying means?

>In order to keep costs down govt will have to try to force healthy behavior

What is this kind of bullshit

USA is already spending far more per capita on healthcare (while not covering the entire population) than other countries, it could adopt single player universal healthcare and costs would go down.

The idea that universal healthcare would lead to excessive costs is bullshit.

>People can either be free to choose to do risky things and indulge, and pay for the risks themselves

Do you even realize that being sick is not directly related to doing "risky things"? Do you realize that people gets cancer or has genetic hearth diseases? Do you realize that there are people that can't pay for insurance not because they are lazy, but because the very disease they are suffering prevents them from going back to work?

Talking with conservative americans is like talking with a wall.

Its not about excessive costs but excessive regulation. We already have laws about things like requiring seat belt use in cars, wearing helmets on bicycles, that sort of things, as well as taxes on unhealthy luxury products like tobacco/alcohol. This is without any universal healthcare - if the state started footing the bill for everything I imagine they would get a lot more restrictive. Obviously most of these things are common sense or healthy choices, but its valuable as an individual to have the freedom to do as you like as long as you understand the consequences.

As to people with genetic diseases or who are the victims of actual accidents, I consider that an entirely different question - just like we have a special program for elderly people, we ought to have one for those who truly had no choice due to genetics or who are victims of fate. But if someone decides they want to smoke for life and drink themselves to death, they ought to be able to without the state and by extension the taxpayer paying for it whether the 'patient' wants it or not. The same goes for people who have risky hobbies - I see assholes longboarding down mountain roads in the wrong lanes filming themselves on their phones around here. If they enjoy it so be it, but if they get hurt doing it I don't see how its societies responsibility to care for them - they shouldn't have taken such risks without being prepared for the consequences.

Niggers

>be America
>foot the research and development costs for the entire worlds medicine
>get chastised by the rest of the world for high medical cost while they enjoy the subsidized medicine from their government
>mfw

This

Everything outside of north america should be fucking gassed, foreigners are useless

niggers
also its stuipid that the strong help the weak survive.

Because getting jew'd is better than being called a commie.

well, that was mean.

Germany have 330 million people most of which are obese?

...

Because Dems did it first so notlw it's forever flawded and dangerous to the fiber of America
>cities
Isn't it just NY

go choke on your second-rate tea

USA has never implemented real tort reform.
You can still sue someone for personal injury.
Indigent care is compulsory.

This is why it will not work.

>things like requiring seat belt use in cars, wearing helmets on bicycles
8/10

Anyone who worked in ER/EMT is opposed to it.
Niggers and white trash will call an ambulance over minuscule shit, funneling millions of dollars into the toilet, not speaking that only in USA a security guard is required in ER, crackheads breaking equipment, mexicans smoking, etc.
If you want free healthcare we need first arrange many, many helicopter rides.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but we're not like other countries.

Husband of a small business owner here, +50% on taxes owed thanks to Osama Care.

If only it was just Jew York.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soda_tax#United_States

>Are you opposed to Universal Healthcare?
Strawman question/argument

No-one is opposed to 'universial healthcare'. Lots of people are opposed to having their money stolen to be pissed up the wall on the undeserving/put in the pockets of political scum/having aforementioned political scum take greater power over their personal lives - all supposedly in the service of the common good.

'Universal Healthcare' is a political scam which is always rhetorically pushed on the basis of "OMGS how can you be so evil as to deny free medicine to everyone" when the reality is it's largely motivated by the establishment wanting to gain a permanent foothold in people's personal lives and create an enormous government bondoogle which inevitably becomes an object of religious veneration by the ignorant.

For example see the insane worship of the deeply mediocre (frequently murderous, always wasteful, often spiteful) NHS in the UK. ANY stance or policy which isn't simply "MORE MONEY TO NHS, MORE GIBS FOR LEECHES!" is treated like someone has proposed murdering people freely in the streets while raping cancer ridden children as the last coal mine is destroyed having been filled up with puppies and kittens.

>Are you opposed to Universal Healthcare?
yes
>It seems to work out for other countries.
such as?

but MUH FREEDOM
If i want to get bankrupted for getting sick, I should fucking be able to get bankrupted for being sick. You Europors make me ill, I swear.

Everything in those countries is more expensive.

I never said I wanted Universal Healthcare by the way. I'm just trying to understand why it's not possible here. What are the pros and cons and why some of you would be for it or against. lol

because america will never cut military spending because you where consumed by the military industrial complex.

Hell the best argument for universal healthcare isn't even that it might help you or someone you know.

It's that it's cultivates a empathy amongst the doctors and nurses and allows them to just focus on their job rather than having to think about 'does this guy have enough money to pay for the life saving procedure, that I know how to do, and could literally be doing right now'

t. someone who worked at a big city hospital.

what would you consider to be first-rate tea?

Why does healthcare cost so much in US to un-insured people?
It doesn't actually cost 20k to scan a broken leg and put it in a cast, but people somehow keep on ending up having to pay these ridiculous prices.

Nigger you don't understand why healthcare in America is so expensive.

In other countries governments negotiate prices for every medical good from hospital beds to prescription drugs. They lowball on prices, paying for only part of the true cost of research and development because they know Americans will then pay for the remainder.

This is why obamacare failed so hard. It didn't lower the cost of healthcare it just spread the overpriced crap amongst all Americans.

America needs to play hard ball with the rest of the world, which is what the God Emperor will undoubtedly do. Can't wait for the rest of the faggot world to finally pay up when it comes to healthcare.

Hell if I know. I just started my own coverage not too long ago and I honestly don't understand why this costs so much.

Becauae it starta with this and ends with ubi. Any socialism policy leads to more social policies, that in the end fuck the middle class, the rich and in the end, even the poor.

>because america will never cut military spending because you where consumed by the military industrial complex.

MIC is a big problem in US. However it isn't terminal.

On the other hand, the welfare state and the pompous 'empathy' espoused by European countries - most spectacularly by the Scandicuck nations - is suicidal. It's also been funded by a combination of US generosity for over half a century and a previously 'high trust' society based on overwhelming ethnic homogeneity. Good luck maintaining it in the decades to come.

>It's that it's cultivates a empathy amongst the doctors and nurses and allows them to just focus on their job rather than having to think about 'does this guy have enough money to pay for the life saving procedure, that I know how to do, and could literally be doing right now'
If someone is so lacking in empathy that they need to abrogate personal responsibility and depend on threat of violence by government to put money in their pockets before they treat someone they should not be in a caring profession.

>t. someone who worked at a big city hospital.
Your argument is based upon (your view) of human psychology so your qualification is irrelevant - though it says something about your own probable lack of empathy and significance of money in your life considering the point you've attempted to make.

t. someone who worked as a combat medic in a Muslim shithole.

Look

I'm just saying

You already have enough military to annihilate the rest of us, do you really need to keep spending that much money on it?

It works in homogeneous societies where 90% of the people can be expected to behave responsibly, have similar income, similar life expectancy and have similar genetic and behavioral risks.

In a diverse country like the US, what will end up happening is the care being disproportionately eaten up by the obese, alcoholics, drug-users, and those with high risk of HIV infection, while the cost is spread evenly to the general populace.

>If i want to get bankrupted for getting sick, I should fucking be able to get bankrupted for being sick.

Yup. And if people who are so keen on helping others/introducing Universal Healthcare genuinely want to do so there is absolutely nothing stopping them using their own time and money to ensure those who cannot afford treatment receive it.

But that would require using their own time and money rather than having Daddy government use threat of violence against others to do their bidding.

How much do you pay a month?

It all costs so much because the rest of the world is fucking us in the asshole.

Americans have an effective agreement with the rest of the world to “split the bill.” After prices have been shopped and negotiated overseas, Americans get their much higher price.
Whatever medical companies give up overseas they make up in the United States, where there are no price ceilings, and where there are no negotiations over medical prices because the our government doesn't set prices on shit like that.

The world consumes the same steak dinner that we do, but they pay a hamburger price because they lowball the fuck out of us.
Americans pay for the full cost of their steak dinners, plus extra to cover everyone else’s dinner.

we're getting kiked hard as hell.

>If someone is so lacking in empathy that they need to abrogate personal responsibility and depend on threat of violence by government to put money in their pockets before they treat someone they should not be in a caring profession.

Clearly you've never been to china

>universal healthcare is struggling to meet demand in countries with 30-60 million people
>hey guys let's do universal healthcare for a population of 300 million! :^)
Good luck.

>I just started my own coverage not too long ago and I honestly don't understand why this costs so much.
This is part of the problem right here. 60 years ago it was pay for service. You walked into the doctor's office, paid $10 or $20 bucks, and that was it.

Today, the cost of administrators is one of the greatest burdens.

Plus, as you note, American health care consumers are generally ignorant of health care costs. They just know they want a test, or a pill, or whatever. They've no idea the tests they're getting might cost thousands of dollars, or the pills they're getting cost 15 years and $500 million dollars to produce. No. It's all Big fucking Pharma's fault.

Fucking idiots. Americans are pussies, running to the ER with a fucking head cold.

I might be a retard, but I never understand this argument.
With a higher volume of people come more money to spend on healthcare, more specialists and more hospitals.

You can just split the country into small territories with populations of 1 million and pretend they're all different countries

See this leaf understands.
Also the only reason you can have your barely afloat shit socialist medical coverage is because the United States subsidizes it.
The u.s. Is the leader in biomedical innovation by a long shot, with as much as 40% of the money going towards it being American dollars.
This is why I REEEE so hard when I see communists post shit like
>Lel fat Americans are too dumb for universal healthcare we are so much better top laugh fatties
God damn it fuck off you only have that shit because of us.

Yea, thank god your government doesn't give a shit if you drink Coke and eat McDonalds every day, it's your god-given right to do so.
Hmm.. You might even wonder if they *want* you to drink Coke and eat McDonalds every day - could there be profits in selling you addictive junk and then afterwards selling you expensive health-care as you're dying from obesity?

What a wonderful society

Drugs aren't free here. You still have to buy it yourself, although some of them are subsidized by the govt.
What's free are the doctor visits and immediate care with all the drugs you may require to be kept alive if you get hurt/whatever. Also blood tests, MRI scans, etc.
Why couldn't that be cheaper in the US?

I think a little over $200. It's just me for now but next year I'll be married and she's an attorney that basically works for herself so she will inevitably end up on my stuff too.

>It didn't lower the cost of healthcare it just spread the overpriced crap amongst all Americans.

Have you heard of socialism?

It doesn't actually work in "other countries", senpai.
Mismanaged healthcare kills with bureaocracy in a way You can't imagine in america.

Dude I don't even eat sugar, much less drink coke - I'm just saying that if we are going to look to government to solve our health problems, I prefer doing so through educating individuals and teaching them self control through promoting classical ideas, rather than just letting the govt force behavior one way or another.

If you are saying that govt cant be trusted to represent our interests in the matter, then I guess you are against universal healthcare as well?

Honestly, I think that's a bit extreme. We don't have to kill them or even fight them, we just have to make ourselves better then them.

Alright fair enough, but why not do both? Educate people so they know what they should and shouldn't do, but at the same time tax sugar and alcohol so that even the retards wont eat or drink themselves to death.

I am not against universal health care, you are. That's what you meant in your first post, if I'm not mistaken. It seems like everyone in America is against it, and I'm struggling to understand why

>own time and money to ensure those who cannot afford treatment receive it.
But in the US, no one is denied life saving/emergency care. We still have to pay for these people that cant afford it, and instead of getting preventative medicine, all they get is emergency care, which is generally much more expensive. Government pays, and hospitals have to absorb the cost (which they pass on to the other patients).
>Daddy government use threat of violence against others to do their bidding.
Does the NHS gestapo knock down your door? This is news to me, please elaborate

check wreck^^

nice

Because it is the cost side that needs fixing, not the how to pay for it side. Stopping the providers from doing all their monopolistic bullshit is step 1, then we can talk about how to pay for it.

cant argue with quints

start with canada plz

>But in the US, no one is denied life saving/emergency care. We still have to pay for these people that cant afford it, and instead of getting preventative medicine, all they get is emergency care, which is generally much more expensive. Government pays, and hospitals have to absorb the cost (which they pass on to the other patients).

This wasn't always the case, and its time to stop it. Charity hospital for the indigent. Too fucking bad.

weeds out the idiots at least.

Well hello there fellow disciple

>nanny state
>american

just remember you don't even rank in the top 10 countries for personal freedom.

rofl

yeah.... not going to happen retard

you rank so low in things that make countries actually good to live in its going to be a LONG LONG time before you're country ever has a chance at getting into the top 10 of anything worth while.

Still arguably a better option then destroying the other countries. And you laugh at me for suggesting we can work to make ourselves better. Why do you hate improvement?

Because in that scenario, with universal healthcare, if the retards still buy it despite higher prices you just subsidize their behavior. They will be able to afford the higher prices, because they don't have to pay for the consequences. Its very similar to the arguments against welfare as a permanent source of income instead of a temporary stopgap. Giving money, or in this case a service, no matter what because its the "right" thing to do totally removes consequence from the equation and rewards the wrong outcomes. Whether its true in any individual case isn't the issue, its what it will do in long term population trends. Care no matter what you do will encourage less thought given to what you do, which will result in more care needed, which means higher tax and more regulation. It never ends.

>Why do you hate improvement?
He's an abo.

Ah, didn't realize that until after I posted. My bad.

because your country just voted in someone who is going to lower you even more in alot of the rankings that matter when regarding personal freedoms? so, you're improvement is at least another 4 years away. and boy oh boy is he going to lower them quickly.
not an abo, they make up like 3% of the population.

>Talking with conservative americans is like talking with a wall.
Talking with liberals is like talking to overweight hamburger eating heart attacks waiting to happen. The fatness is not genetic. It is because people can't self control. So, 2/3 of america is overweight as fuck, and blames everyone but themselves....
and somehow eveyone in america should subsidize the health costs of someone who is not remotely healthy.

Bullshit.

It sucks

I dont like paying for unhealthy fucks, people who make poor life choices and drug abusers and even criminals healtcare through my income tax.

Fuck this stupid system.

The quality of care in these countries is considerably different. I remember watching peep show where sophie is giving birth and the doctors LEAVE THE ROOM for extended periods of time

digits have spoken

Americans already have universal health care, medicare and medicaid. The poor and the old (the most expensive part for the system) They just pay for it with no benefits.

you are so fucking cucked you think your system is better? good lord it makes me laugh

at least when our women give birth there are a doctor and nurse present at all times

Universal healthcare functionality is inversely functional to the percentage of nonwhite citizens who use the system. It barely works in Europe with their booming nonwhite populations, it won't work in the US at all.

Does it cost that much money (for you personally I mean) Like do you look at your checks (or tax returns) and just go "Fuck if it wasn't for this health care shit...."

(not being sarcastic)

You're not thinking far enough ahead. At least with the government, you can vote to relax any restrictions. When your employer demands you quit smoking, or lose weight, or eat broccoli or face termination, you'll have zero recourse.

Sure, it's not widespread yet, but it's already begun.

same here? i've seen those pics of your bills for the privilege too, makes me kek heartily.

it wont work in america, everyone over there is too retarded, peped up on a thousand different drugs, srs like 1 in 2 or 3 burgers are on a drugs, and you have the highest rate of overreaction and hypochondria, not to mention your hordes of sjw's ready to have a panic attack at the drop of hat, cant think of a worse place to have universal healthcare, the death rate at hospitals would skyrocket, simply because the people who need real care are waiting while 10 hypos get their mental state petted by doctors who should be saving people with legitimate problems.

what im saying is americans are too reliant on doctors to solve every little ache and ailment of them and theyre all too self centred to see the strain and problems their own actions would cause for others

Don't forget that they can only afford to spend as much as they do on Healthcare because we foot the bill for their defense costs

No, I'm not. I think it's a much less corrupt system than the murricans have--problem is, I'm not sure if it could ever work in Burgerstan.

At any rate, the many such cases of people I've known getting blindsided and financially ruined by HUGE medical bills is quite frankly outlandish in most other developed countries. I just can't understand why some people would prefer the very corrupt system that is US medicare. I've met too many middle class people who have been wronged by it, and who oppose it, to ever support a system like that.

I also think that it discourages doctor visits(sounds good fiscally, right?)--which often leads to a culture of "ignore symptom X until you can't anymore". And by the time you finally do visit a doctor, only from necessity, you could find out that you've let a disease progress unchecked.

I also believe that poor access to medicare fosters infectious disease itself in the lower-income populations, which can then inevitably be transferred to the middle and upper classes.

Sure waiting lists suck in Canada, but not as many people end up in perpetual debt from being unable to afford medicare. Our pharmacare isn't free, and neither is the dentist, so there are acceptable gaps in our system

apparently repealing obamacare will kill an extra 44500 americunts every year. kek

R&D? Come on. Compare R&D expenditures to marketing expenditures, and think about that for a while.