Illegals contribute 12 billion dollars in taxes and 13 billion into social security. But people still claim they're draining the system. But, hey, let's do some math; let's even use the Center for Immigration Studies numbers.
CIS says illegal immigrant households receiving welfare cost $5,692 in taxes. There are 11 million illegals in the U.S. but not 11 million households. For Latinos in the U.S. the figure is 3.87 people per household. So that means there are about 3.66 million illegal immigrant households.
CIS claims that 73% of Mexican and Central American Households take welfare. So that's roughly 2.66 million on welfare. 2.66 million illegal immigrant households costing $5,692 in tax dollars is $15.1 billion. Their social security payment, which they will never receive the benefit of, almost covers that total!
So, uh, I guess they don't leach off the system! Or am I not understanding this right?
My parents were immigrants and always payed their taxes. We never took government assistance or abused it. I can't say the same thing for some white people.
Jason Adams
Yes. According to the IRS at least 6 million file taxes yearly.
Adrian Martinez
In the town I live in only white people have government assistance.
Sebastian Long
Well I am no expert but I highly doubt most of them pay fully, and doubt their employers withhold payroll taxes on money paid to illegal employees.
I think there is a ton of room for contrary claims, but unless there is overwhelming evidence, I think people will have a hard time believing they are contributing fairly. Unless they are liberal in which case they'll believe anything that feels right.
Dominic Reed
They pay 12 billion more than drumpfy does
Luke Martin
And here I thought it was those illegals who sucked off the government tit!
Josiah Garcia
It's true the entrepreneurial do pay taxes when they work for themselves. The rest of this post is disingenuous and should be saged because the board is overrun with this shit. This isn't even a real place to be right now, they are effectively ruining this board with dumb threads and derailing conversation in others. If this is a conserted effort it should be investigated and you should be charged for conspiracy to infringe the first amendment.
Andrew Brooks
WTF I know illegals are keeping the US afloat now
David Cruz
The ones that work for companies do The one's who get paid cash usually don't
Nathaniel Wilson
I think that my argument is pretty sound though. Those are commonly agreed upon figures, both the amount illegals contribute in taxes and the total number of illegal aliens in the U.S. And CIS isn't a pro-immigration organization, I think it says so in their mission statement.
Aaron Robinson
Illegal immigrants cost $80 billion dollars last year
Aiden Diaz
I work at a job that helps people in need, and it's always white people asking for help. There is nothing wrong with that, but don't assume minorities are the only ones.
Owen Gomez
>tfw I honestly can't tell if Sup Forums has been invaded by shills or if it's just another wave of shit posting like it was prior to the election
Xavier Gutierrez
>The rest of this post is disingenuous How is this post disingenuous, because it challenges your worldview perhaps? Forces you to rethink things? Or does the basic math just confuse you?
Brody Reyes
Too bad paco I want my European ethno state back. You and the rest of the niggers degenerate our society. You have to go back, or you will fertilize my country.
Gavin Johnson
>isn't a pro-immigration organization
Their tag line literally contains the phrase "pro-immigrant"
Leo Watson
Where's your source? Maybe I just came at a bad time. But I'm genuinely interested in an actual discussion.
Isaac Hernandez
Well you leave out the part where illegal immigrants are estimated to cost the US 80-120 billion yearly to deal with, so if we go by simple math we end up with a net deficit.
Caleb Walker
>low-immigration, pro-immigrant I concede I worded that incorrectly, but you're only telling half the truth.
Parker Martinez
He asked for a source.
Connor Gonzalez
how the hell do illegals even get on welfare in the first place?
Jose Scott
What's your source?
Anthony Morgan
How do they get to stay in the country? idk
Eli Edwards
There women pop out an anchor baby and there men work for cash
Landon Butler
No you leave out the crime statistics when a little fucking poco flips a coin in every family for the chance to be incarcerated. You leave out the administration costs. You leave out wage depression in certain areas and affect the development of the area and the lives of its people, preparing the market for unsustainable scenarios as well. I'm sure there's more but that's just my knowledge some dude who thought about it for a fucking minute... Who made these figures available to you and told you this story?
In the wise words of Abraham Lincoln, you should probably investigate a little bit yourself before you make an ass out of yourself on the internet.
William Hernandez
hmmm seems like a pro-immigrant organization to me. Maybe their reports are skewed toward being favorable to illegal immigrants
Luke Fisher
Thanks for paying 12 billion in taxes, that totally pays for all your expens-
Jacob Jenkins
>muh economy I don't care nigga get out
Jordan Green
>almost covers that total!
Jace Miller
I don't get it, don't they check their citizenship status and refuse them welfare if they are not citizens? WTF
James Evans
Hey now, don't be a bigot! They're totally kind and peac-
Carson Russell
FAIR is an unbiased source of information? A nonprofit which is bent on immigration reform?
Jace Myers
Like I said man, I think its naturally to be heavily suspicious about something like this. Burden of proof is definitely on someone claiming illegals are pulling their fair share.
Jeremiah Allen
Nigga talking about bias when he based his entire argument on a fucking immigration lobbying org, and hasn't acknowledged his limited argument. Like I know it but still giving YOUs. Dadoy son
Samuel Moore
Border jumping beans BTFO!
Jordan Peterson
>FAIR I was reading about them earlier. They saw this coming back in the 70's because they're based af. Also Trump is literally getting all his advice on how to solve this demographics mess from them because this is the best timeline.
Benjamin Anderson
Attacking the source instead of the information I see. I provided a source which uses facts and publicly available information to create an educated guesstimation. Of course they have a bias, everyone has a bias, but they're using undeniable evidence to support their position.
What do you have? Where's your source illegals even provide us with a measly 10 billion in revenue a year?
Samuel Flores
>contribute Okay, but how much do they cost?
Jacob Lopez
Welfare SNAP Medicaid Education for illegals Education for anchor babies Incarcerations Prison Emergency Room visits Lost taxes from americans because mexicans work for less Crime ICE salaries Drugs = War on Drugs Sex Trafficking
If you think the pros outweigh the cons you're retarded
Nolan Martinez
I am telling you from experience and from knowing a lot of those illegal aliens. They pay their taxes, fully, and trust me they are not getting any money back. You can post as many estimates as you want, but I know the reality. As for your fellow white people who love to use their food stamps on junk food and ask for financial help, my taxes apparently got you.
Nathaniel Lee
Okay. We're still losing 100 billion dollars a year if we assume they're even paying 13 billion in taxes. What's your point?
Kevin Wilson
Lol thread over guys, this dude has boots on the ground. He gets what's going on in this country, you may have your statistics and reports, but trust him because he knows a lot of illegal aliens, and they're all straight holmes.
Ryan Wright
Here's an image with sources. Anecdotal evidence is not an argument.
Jeremiah Rogers
oh, ok i'll just take your word for it. they pay their taxes fully. So grateful for your experience which surely reflects reality.
I don't even know about my parents taxes, how would you have intimate details about every beaners?
Brandon Edwards
>In this episode of Liberals shitposting on Sup Forums >HURR DURR ILLEGALS ARE GREAT!! WE NEED TO KEEP OUR INDENTURED SERVANTS FOR OUR CORPORATE OVERLORDS BECAUSE WE ARE RACISTS!!!
Feel free to justify the enslavement of Hispanics just like you justified the enslavement of Africans, you fucking hypocritical racist bigots.
Noah Thompson
>Illegals contribute taxes Stopped reading there.
Nathan Long
>At the state and local level alone, undocumented immigrants nationwide collectively pay an estimated $11.64 billion each year in taxes, according to a recent report by the Institute on Taxation and Economic Policy. t. USA Today 3 seconds on google dawg.
Alexander Bennett
>I am telling you from experience and from knowing a lot of those illegal aliens.
please tell me how many is a lot of illegal aliens, because if it is not over 100,000 it is not even a decent sample size to make any sort of analysis off of. I would 2 million would give a decent data set, but even then I would not trust the data as that is less than 16% of the population.
I know a few illegals, and no they don't pay shit and they work under the table. Those who are wage slaves claim 99 dependents (which is in some cases accurate)
Jaxon Wilson
> according to the (((IRS)))
Christian Cox
Lol the fucking (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((IRS)))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
Get the fuck outta here you fucking fag - get shot in the neck and bleed out in a gutter
Michael Gomez
No one is disputing that and yet we're all laughing, you and boots on the ground up there are less human for denying fact for emotion. Or maybe it's just a way to make a little coin because we all know those public perception networks that failed to usurp our nation before haven't dried up yet.
Nolan Stewart
Illegals do drain the system.
Aaron Brooks
Great, thanks, we both agree we're losing over 100 billion dollars taking care of illegal immigrants and their families.
See what this is, this is called having facts. I know it's probably a hard concept to grasp, most of your arguments being based on emotions in the past. But it's time for you to grow as a person, and leave behind emotions when dealing with stuff like this. If you'd spent some time researching you wouldn't have even needed to make this thread. You would have realized you were wrong, instead of me having to take time out of my busy schedule of browsing /his/ to link you studies you should have already known about.
Chase Morgan
: / Dude unhinged rage is not entertaining or productive
Ayden Martinez
Fuck you, wetback.
Parker Watson
It would be better if they were actual citizens instead of criminals.
Jackson Nelson
> t. I don't pay taxes
Michael Anderson
I sign my checks in three places you... Fucking person.
Asher Collins
>Presented with facts and sources thinks it's fake Get outa that liberal mindset and actually think
Evan Martinez
>USA has over 20 million illegal immigrants >6 million pay tax Go fuck yourself
Eli Barnes
I think I own that Chihuahua now.
Ryder Flores
You lost me.
Chase Smith
>fuck op
Oliver Fisher
see >What do you have? Where's your source illegals even provide us with a measly 10 billion in revenue a year?
I will defer you to my original post, my friend, no emotion there except a question and a little math. This is part of my research, thanks, and you've helped contribute to it. I know you've never ventured farther than the basement threshold to receive your coveted tendies through a slot in the door your poor step-father had to install to keep you fed, but sometimes people in the outside world, or even on Mongolian Pubic Crochet Boards, exchange ideas and mutually benefit from them. So, if you will kindly lighten up, this can be one of those occasions.
Lincoln Martin
I said 11 million illegals total. Where are you getting 20 from?
Austin Howard
Ah once to address, once to approve, and once to endorse. Middle of the check, bottom right, back top. Actually live in Texas in construction and I'm just as enthusiastic about immigration, and these curiously consistent shitposters. I think it is a crime to disrupt an open forum in a systematic way, and I'd see these people doing it tried for sedition.
Gabriel Miller
If a white professor said this about any other race, they would lose their job, home and possible divorce.
This is infuriating.
David Rogers
nigger. illegals cost texas alone 20+ billion a year.
Liam Cooper
>my source is pastebin
wew you sure told him
Nathan Gomez
>They pay their taxes, fully, and trust me they are not getting any money back
Wow you're a bastard, you're letting them pay taxes you know they wont get back and you still let them stay here?
At that point sending them back would be doing then a favor
Hudson Jones
Dude clay bowl production needs to be highest at night to take advantage of the drying time in the sun sun. You'll never MMGO this way...
Juan Bell
What you are missing here is without those illegals, more LEGAL Americans would be in the workforce, less LEGAL Americans would be on Welfare...so it is a net gain to remove those illegals. and then there is all those paid under the table.
Josiah Ross
you know illegals cost the country in other ways beyond welfare right? Prison/court costs, medical costs. Not including the vast amount paid in cash who dont pay a dime in taxes. Most illegals dont have a social so look for jobs that are cash only.
Evan Turner
Oy Vey a typo when I'm trying to look cool and diss in front of my frreeeiiiinnds!
Ian Hall
>there are 11 million illegals in the suburbs of Houston alone ftfy
Grayson Morales
You seem to be confusing my calling you out on attacking the source while you have an unsourced claim with me doubting you. Just trying to make you a little self aware.
>my research Bitch drop the act. You didn't research shit, you got told something in your little bubble and wanted to stick it to the man, or whatever this attempt was. Could just be shitposting, but let's not pretend for a second you did any research. I did your research.
Hell, it's disingenuous to even call it that. I didn't research anything, I provided readily available information literally at your fingertips you were simply too lazy or too thoughtless to consider might exist.
I've had a long ass month, a long ass day, and I'm not in a good mood or a good place right now. I don't feel like playing nice, I feel insulted people like you still manage to feel superior in the face of being objectively wrong. I don't hate you, I want you to change your ways, be better than the standard human trashcan.
But the more I engage in dialog with the left the more I just want to see it all burn, and the more I talk to the right the more I just want to put a shotgun in my mouth. If you're serious about "researching," and I really do honestly hope you are, start fucking acting like it. Take it seriously. If you want to be pro illegal immigrants, fine, but you should have known 30 goddamn years ago they're an absolute economic drain on us.
I'm fucking sick of all this side stepping that goes on. Fucking sick of it.
Hudson Diaz
>illegal >taxpayer
Chose EXACTLY one
Dylan Torres
Hey Bros... The person knows. You're doing this because you want to feel this way right now. The shadowboxing is sometimes useful for people happening upon this board I think, but you're not actually having an honest conversation. I imagine that somebody in government NOW is quietly investigating behavior like this and following the trail to wherever it goes.
Tyler Price
And now reading your post, I guarantee that people paid to endure the mental chatter of this conflict all day are some of the most miserable people alive. If they aren't paid, they dont just wander in here to have their minds changed.
Blake Ortiz
And what's your point? I shouldn't vent on Sup Forums? I shouldn't call people out on their bullshit? I'd love an honest debate, but facts are facts. You can't debate facts, you can debate what to do with them.
Do we integrate these people? Do we kick them out? Do we just cut funding entirely to those without credentials, bar them from public services, go full Orwellian Nightmare so we can make sure only US citizens are benefiting from this? But nobody's here to debate that, least of all OP. He doesn't want to talk solutions, he wants to insinuate it's not actually a problem. That's horse shit, unfettered mental manure, and I'm not going to humor him without at least getting some satisfaction out of my wasted time here.
He's miserable? I hope so. I was miserable once, I didn't get better because of flowery words. I got better because I decided to fix the problem that was making me miserable.
Hunter Myers
Yeah I liked your points and candor, guess I'm here venting too I knew I wasn't getting anything done here lol. I think there should be a grace period and after that we should send them to Liberia when we find them here tbhfam.
Ryder Adams
Correction I got less done than you did, you actually looked shit up for a communal good.
Austin Butler
I just want an honest discussion, but I might as well be looking for a gold nugget at McDonalds at this point. I don't expect much even, but the one consistent thing I've found is leftists don't want discussion. As infuriating as some of the talking points the right has, they have talking points, they will debate you. Leftists want you to source everything, are hesistant to source anything of their own, and what you do source is inevitably attacked for not being one of their sources. It gets old, fast. Where did all the moderates go? Why is everything gotta be an extreme? Feels like everyone's a Sith and forgot the color grey existed.
The last time I tried to talk to a liberal about how blacks have been shafted, and we need to rethink how we've dealt with them because what we're doing now clearly isn't working, the conversation lasts 20 seconds before he got mad, stood up and left. All because I insinuated the Democratic party is manipulating blacks through welfare.
Dylan Brown
Dude, just stop. The far right pantshitters here are too fucking braindead to understand a word you said. They've invested in Donald Dumbfuck and his "polivies" for Christ's sake.
Better off using your time figuring out how to get blacks to the polls. We do that one thing in 2020 and we can pretend President Pussygrabber never happened.
Julian Scott
Lol liberals are not worth talking to. People on the right usually do kind of an old person thing where they site something true and generalize, but they don't really know the particulars of why and it's more of a dichotomy choice than their own reasoned stance. I'm 26, the problem I find with most people is that they won't be vulnerable to themselves that they don't know something. Giant snowball to never learning anything pretty fast. Honestly women disappointed me the most in life, truly awful situation right now or more likely always. I don't think they realize what manipulation is, like dogs in a mirror.
Evan Evans
...
Juan Diaz
>I feel insulted people like you still manage to feel superior in the face of being objectively wrong Projection much there m8? >I provided readily available information literally at your fingertips you were simply too lazy or too thoughtless to consider might exist And I'm reading it right now. Really makes you think. >If you want to be pro illegal immigrants I'm neither one way or the other on this issue. I just provided what I was thinking about in my original post and asked for input. Are you trolling me maybe? Or are you just a melodramatic twit?
Luis Butler
Enjoy your eight years CTR.
William Jenkins
>Better off using your time figuring out how to get blacks to the polls. We do that one thing in 2020 and we can pretend President Pussygrabber never happened. If Trump can improve the inner cities, and he can, he probably will too, then blacks will vote Republican for the next 100 years.
Grayson Barnes
>implying it's an economic issue
I just want the brownies out because I don't like them
Isaac Barnes
I get the joke, and it's clever, but you should get a real job sooner rather than later. I would also call and tip off if there's money involved here, because that would be a great service to the country (and western world).
James Barnes
I'm not objectively wrong here, so I fail to understand what I'm projecting. You on the other hand carry a certain air of superiority about your posts. You ask for a source, I happily oblige, mentioning this is common knowledge in a condescending tone. You respond by attacking the source, I point out your fallacy then quip about how you're attacking my source while having an unsourced claim. You then do a clever little quip by repeating what I said earlier, only adding in a dawg to try and show how nonchalant and unbothered you are. Classic attempt to show how you're holding the moral high ground here, you're the calm and collected one so that makes your argument better.
I'll give you the benefit of the doubt here and say you were just responding to my condescension with that tone. But don't try and pretend you weren't trying to grab the moral superiority position here.
You've been mostly reasonable despite your tone, so I'll explain my hostility towards you in the fact your OP comes across as pretty shill-tastic. Lots of numbers, big assumptions, biased source, and an incredibly massive jump to conclusion island. Numbers that on a glance, mind you, make incredibly little sense to me given official government numbers put illegal immigrants in the US much higher than that. Official numbers said there were 11 million illegals in the US... in 2006. 11 years ago. More recent studies say there may be as many as 20 million illegals around. FAIR estimates 13 million, for reference.
Really it was just your attacking of FAIR as a source, rather than even the OP, that really set me off. That's a bad thing, don't attack the source if you want discussion, attack the content.
Benjamin Ortiz
And yes, I do realize I am attacking your source now, but my concern for the bias is how the achieved the numbers. They rate the amount of illegals on the low end of 11 million, and also seem to undersell the cost and amount of welfare the average family is taking. CIS is not the first source I would go to if I wanted to make a positive point about illegals is what I'm ultimately saying.
Caleb Morales
They do get money back. Lots. Paco says he's self employed just to claim max additional child tax credit on his 7 nieces and nephews. I work at the IRS and see it happen return after return after return. Illegals don't file unless they're getting a refund and they lie about their earnings to always get a refund.
Christopher White
THEY DON'T PAY TAXES STUPID CUNT
Landon Collins
Hey Italy, what's up? Having a good day?
Zachary Lewis
>let's even use the Center for Immigration Studies numbers.
because we all know how committed to keeping track of illegal immigration Obama's government was.
We have no idea how many illegal immigrants are here. fuck off retard