Taxation is theft

>Taxation is theft
How to argue against this?

you cant its irrefutable

It's a statement and not an argument. You can't argue against that.

But you can refute the statement or provide alternatives.

On a serious note. It's a contract that everyone has entered. And if both sides (the people and the state) abide the contract – taxation is useful and more effective.

You can't.

R O A D S
O A D S
A D S
D S
S

You can't. Taxation is theft. Statist bootlicker cucks like getting robbed.

Taxes is the price you pay for civilization

Don't ever call the police
Don't ever call the ambulance
Don't ever collect unemployment
Don't ever collect social security
Don't ever use medicare
Don't use public roads
Don't use public education
Don't accept federal student loans


Then sure, taxation is theft

It's the price that the government forces us to pay for their brand of civilization, yes.

you don't have to call the police
the only reason Warlord Tyrone the 5th hasn't raided your home yet is because there is law and order being enforced by a police force

Taxation isn't theft. You're voluntarily paying for the services your government provides to you.

Don't like it? You're welcome to leave.

contract is voluntary by definition

Nice selfie

At its inception it was voluntary. You were born into it.

its impossible. you dont have to be a libertarian to agree with this its literally the most basic exercice of logic. if you cant accept this youre probably worthless to talk to overall

And who volunteered to be born?

>born at x place with your family and friends
>a warlord says to you 'lol pay up'
>why no i dont own you shit
>lol then off to the prison with you
>o...ok ill pay... fucking robber
>you : LOL LEAVE THEN LOLOLOL


kill yourself brainlet

I never asked for their service.

change the social contract to a voluntary contract

offer alternative coarses of action for those who do not wish to contribute

Theft is a crime.

Taxation is legal.
Your property is only yours because the state defends your property rights. If you fail to pay for this service, you forfeit their protection of your property, and your membership in a society.

monopoly much?

As far as I can tell, you can't.

That said, it's necessary to have a civilised society and is clearly preferable to the alternative.

no tax no gibs me that

I never asked to be born. Fuck off socialist.

I never asked to be a part of civilization m8
That's like forcing someone to stay in your house and making them pay rent on top of it

Neither did we ask for you to be born.

nobody forces you to stay.

You say "Trump does it so it's okay".

Remember when we spent all our time justifying Dubya's wars because muh merica? Taxation is another stupid thing we're tricked into holding in high esteem, and it'll take something like widespread bitcoin use to redpill us.

You mean the brand of civilisation that's given you all the means to survive and thrive, even if you're a worthless basement-dwelling neet?

Whoa whoa whoa, hold the fuck on Sup Forums. Did one of you Nig nogs mention roads? Cause if so we got to discuss a few things.

Not my job to exit a situation someone else placed me in against my will

>Not my job to exit a situation someone else placed me in against my will
It wasn't against your will.

You didn't ask NOT to be born, either.

Yeah, and if the woman doesn't say no it's not rape, right?

They're called borders.

I don't buy shit beer. Or shit cars. Sorry.

lmao more like corona and other products goes out of business in the US and mexico caves to avoid this

Are you saying your parents raped you?

>What is an analogy
Statist "education" everyone

People who live in a community have an obligation to form a system of civic law and order, and such a system requires either unpaid service from the public(corvee, knight-service), or the public paying full time government workers and military(taxes). So taxes in theory are not theft, they are duty, in the same way citizens have a duty to assist sheriffs in making arrests, serve in the military in times of war, serve on juries, etc.(though you are in the Netherlands so you probably don't have those obligations thanks to being a libcucked American puppet regime)

However, the current American system of taxes IS arguably theft because it goes far outside the boundaries of what is necessary for the country to function, and what communities need.

cause land is a voluntary resource...

wait...

Go move to Wyoming, build a log cabin and live off the grid. I promise as long as you're not using any services provided by tax dollars, such as roads or police protection, the tax collectors won't bother you.

If you want to participate in civilized society, however, you need to contribute just like everyone else.

>What is a metaphor

whiny cuck education, everyone.

Even gangs have rules.

>le KUK meme XD
Alright, I accept your surrender. The funny thing is I completely support taxation too.

this

But then won't Americans choose cheaper, non-Mexican products? Beer and cars are different...

Nothing you "own" actually belongs to you. Property is a social construct.
Tax is just a rent you pay to be allowed exclusive rights to something that belongs to everyone.

I don't think you understand what a tariff is. Putting a 20% tariff on Mexican imports means that Mexico is paying a tax to ship there shit in here before it even hits the shelves. This alone will be enough to pay for the wall. As for Mexican imports being more expensive, yes they will be. And if we(America) didn't have a product to compete with them than people would have to pay more. But we have American made product that will stay the same price. When you go to the store to buy some liquor which one are you gonna buy? Coronas for 18.50 or bush for 15.00? That is how tariffs work.

>faggot

Taxes are a price you pay to be part of your community. They are a theft to those who don't want to live in our community, but you living in this community is a theft to those who have worked for, paid for and createdr the community. Taxes are the price of civilization, and that civilization endures only when everyone wants to be a part of it, i.e. likely only when everyone is of the same race.

very good example

Yea, we finally came to an agreement.

Your parents should be hung for birthing you into our civilization.

...

Taxation is the means of pooling resources to provide services from a colony to a large state.

There will be some form of tax, in any civilization; there always has and always will be. Even in non-state organizations there is still some form of taxation.

The challenge is the balance of taxes-services and when the interests of the government don't represent that of the people.

hanged*

>That's like forcing someone to stay in your house

Except that this isn't "Just a house" you utter fucking retard

and in-fact is a NATION that protects you 24/7 with a military, has provided a power grid and water supply for you to hook up with.
And it has Services (Ambulance, Police, Fire Fighters) that will respond at your will

FUCKING hell, why are ANCAP faggots so fucking stupid for fuck sake
Communism and shit on a level is understandable but you guys are just so stupid

Human rights are a social construct. You don't actually have any inherent right to live. There is nothing concrete to stop be from enslaving you, castrating you, fucking your sister, and killing your parents. Except the social constructs we call laws. Too bad you don't believe in those.

Lol I'm not an ancap but gud one
OP wants to know how to argue against the taxation is theft meme so I'm giving him arguments
>Ok so it's a slightly fancier house with a security system

>How to argue against this?
You can't because it is theft - or robbery rather - per definition. What you could argue is that theft or robbery is justified for certain purposes.

Sorry for going off at you then.

ANCAPS just piss me the fuck off so much
Anybody with 2 brain cells understands it all

Well you were given the opportunity in the country built by the people not just you.

There's really no argument against it.

You're better off trying to justify that it works better than its alternatives (like voluntaryism) and that the net benefit to society outweighs the moral issue with forcefully taking citizens money.

It is technically theft.

The guy retains the right to use guns for law enforcement. Taxes are lawful. To enforce tax codes, government uses guns. Anyone else does this outside government it's robbery. So, yes; taxes are theft.

Now, if the enforcement is coupled with representation and authority to act as a group to decide where those funds should go, then it's probably not theft as one has some authority and responsibility with the group. That's where "no taxation without representation" came from.

So, to argue against taxes as theft, the individual paying taxes must have sufficient representation with the taxing government.

Except the government spend most of their time destroying civilization.

I always like these fantasies from 'innawoods' people.
>Go move to Wyoming
>Not using any services provided by tax dollars
muh roads

>No police or community protection
Whats to stop me from sneaking on your property, killing you in your sleep and seizing your cabin and land?

>Whats to stop me from sneaking on your property, killing you in your sleep and seizing your cabin and land?
Nothing. He never made such claims.

>Whats to stop me from sneaking on your property, killing you in your sleep and seizing your cabin and land?

What's to stop you from doing that currently? If you can surprise the guy before he can get his gun and shoot your ass, it's not like he'd have the time to call the police and have them get there in time to stop you.

Yes he did.

Land and rights and granted and protected by a government.

It's theft is I get no opportunity to negotiate it, nor agree to what "civilisation" I want.

I certainly didn't agree to paying for welfare

Might makes right.

You say nice strawman then walk away

Think about this critically.

It's not an argument about calling the police, it's the argument that in a civilization even if you kill someone who occupies that land you would not have rights to said land. Those rights are granted by a sovereign entity.

>Theft requires property rights

>Property rights require rule of law

>rule of law requires basic government

>government defines property rights so that taxation is not theft of property

>taxes are not theft by definition

>I never asked to be a part of civilization m8

Then fuck off to somalia right fucking now
No one is forcing you to stay where you are, you are free to go to your ancap utopia, well? Fucking go already instead of whining that everyone is stealing from you.

>taxes don't trickle down to the customer
Keynesian detected.

Your socialism is showing.

theft isn't real

>interjection
interjection
>interjection
If I may.
What the flying fuck are you on about m8? Are you trying to compare a society with living in a room in a house? You stupid little fuck, let me explain to you why your such a faggot. Like it has already been said, laws are a social construct. Because in reality we are nothing but more intelligent monkeys. There is nothing morally stopping me from firing a TOW missile into your house because your stereo emitted sound waves that made a puddle in my yard vibrate which violates the Nap.
>bitch
So there's a reason why laws are social constructs. Because people don't want to have to worry about being ass blasted by thy neighbor. So we make laws to forbid certain things. Like your right as an animal to murder other animals for violating the NAP.
>stupid bitch
But you can't just right laws on a piece of paper. They have to be enforced. So you have a law enforcement force that is hired to protect you. Now it's time we talk about roads...
>this faggot still thinks he's cool
People need food. So people grow a farm. Now they have to deliver the food to the market. Kinda hard to do that if you have to trek through dense lawless woods just to get raped and have all your food get got by people's mouths. So the government collects a small fee from people to not only pay for the police department, but also for workers to build a road so the farmer can get he's product to the market without getting raped.
>your cadence is sloppy

>Those rights are granted by a sovereign entity
Rights mean nothing if there's no one to enforce or protect them.

If he kills him and just starts squating on the land without consequence then that sovereignty never existed. It's just like a law that is never enforced is not a law.

Taxation provides the resources to maintain society.

Way to only read half of my post you literall faggot.

That's actually a very good answer, honestly.

Personal property is also theft too bro.

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

The overwhelming majority of Anarchist are ass-pained children who don't understand how the world works.

Well if you are fine with some one taking your money and building infrastructure that you use then it is trade.

By definition, Taxation is theft because there is no consent.

The only counter argument is that it is a necessary evil for civilization.

Theft provides the resources to maintain my life.

You don't, you agree and talk about the second amendment as related to the subject.

Theft requires a sense of ownership, not property rights. Theft is more fundamental than simply ignoring property rights.

By your logic torture doesn't exist unless a government makes a rightbto be free from torture

Taxation is part of the SOCIAL CONTRACT everyone is born into, which everyone seems to have forgotten about, post-1960's. The government must be good stewards of the people's money, and it remains the people's money, but the act of taxation is not immoral.

>CONTRACT everyone is born into

hmmmmmmm....

You don't know what a contract is do you?

Theft is usually sporadic, and you can take effective steps to avoid it.

Taxation is much more like racketeering.

You are agreeing to it by being in the country that is taxing you.

No one is forcing you to stay there, if you want to you can move out to ancap utopia that is somalia, absolutely no one is forcing you to stay where you are.

The walls around my community, the security that patrols, my personal walls/gates, my security system, my dog, my weapons and my person in that order. None of that is aided by the government in fact much of it is hindered.
If you get my defenses I guess I don't really have much issue left, you could theoretically do that now. You earned it.

Do you have any proof of that? The history of states is mostly wars and coercions, not voluntary contracts with citizens.

You pay rent to live in a country, just like you'd rent an apartment.
If you don't like the rent, you leave for another apartment or country.

It is.

But the world is a shitty place and a small amount of theft to keep an army and infrastructure up that prevents invasion and plagues and shit is worth it. Ideally we wouldn't need to do this, but unless you have a better idea, it's the best setup we got.

The trick of course, is to keep it to what we need and and not take more than is necessary. Since everyone and their mother are always asking for more, a conservative government is best to counteract that.

(YOU)

>$500 has been withdrawn from your social security fund to get Abdul through another month of unemployment

Say "Thank you, social contract"

>Don't accept federal student loans

was with you until that. thats literally a multi billion dollar business for the banking cartel. but then again everything is.

Well, first off this figure is retarded.
Second, I may not like it. But its not like anything is forcing me to stay there. If I want to I can leave any moment and not pay such things anymore.