Would True Communism Work?

Would true Communism work if applied to the real world? All of the """communist""" countries so far have just been nepotistic dictatorships.

Would Communism as envisioned by Marx work?

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peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf
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No, it puts too much faith in man not to be selfish and screw over his brethren.

>nepotistic dictatorships

Many implications here

I choose 'dictator' over being poor and dying at a young age because there is no healthcare or being stuck as a poor person because i can not afford education...

Freedom is not free, infact it costs alot!!!

No. Communism is incomparable with human nature. An ancap utopia is more believable.

communism would only work if our population was much lower and all jobs were automated, and its not looking like we are getting there anytime soon

This.

rare

Not in any economy that's not post-scarcity.

Turns out people are greedy yo.

RARE MODERN-DAY COMMUNIST FLAG

LITERALLY CUBA DURING EMBARGO TIER

the exact reason they were nepotistic dictatorships is the same reason it doesn't work

that is a paradox
>true-comunism does not work
>if it does not work it is not true comunism

No.
>/thread

I post on int a fair bit, not pol very often but sometimes i browse and i feel the need to tell you american the truth.

Not that you listen anyway, you just believe what you want to believe.

Thic skulls

He would have limited power.
Human nature is not fixed.
Besides, I don't believe we can even begin to formulate what human nature really is.
This is the answer

Though we will get there a lot sooner than you expect.
Nobody wants to employ inefficient meat machines when they can install tireless inhuman machines with millimeter presicion.

communism may work for ants and bees, but not humans

...

>He would have limited power.
By what, laws?

>the ruler makes the laws
>has limited power

There are no laws that grant him power to begin with.
His power is his ability to produce.
But that is owned by all men.

>no laws
that is anarchy

No.

Communism always has to be a dictatorship.

In Communism the "means of production" are owned by the state.

So congratulations, you just confiscated land and property from the "ebil capitalist (tm)".

Now what?

You're gonna make sure everyone gets an equal share of the pie?

Or are you gonna take the big villa for your family?

And what will the other card-carrying members of the party do? Or the high-ranking officers of the military?

Even if YOU decide to redistribute everything equally, there will always be someone who would like to have more than his allocated 40 m^2 of living space.

Communism (and by extension Socialism) is a big fat lie. You just replaced the capitalists with a oligarchy based on party association or military rank.

I specified in that sentence(that grant him power)

but if he makes the laws how is he powerless?

I don't get it. If everyone becomes communist, who will they leech money from so they can keep being professional do-nothings?

True communist dont work.

there was a phraze in romania in comunism
"they pretend that they are paying us we pretend that we are working"

You don't comunism for those things, you know?

...

"Who" is this person?

Noone "person" makes the laws.
You have a senate.

>Would Communism as envisioned by Marx work?
(((True Communism))) was proven to be scientifically impossible almost 100 years ago and some aspects of Marx were debunked even earlier. Read pic related.

How does it? What selfish act can you even do under communism that would screw over your brethren, beyond making a nuke and bombing everyone?

What does this even mean. I hear people say "human nature" all the time but it is always an ambiguous phrase, and not something specific.

Strawman argument.

>In Communism the "means of production" are owned by the state.
WRONG. Jesus fuck read at least a sentence of Marx.

>objective: stateless classless antiimperialistic society
>method: global empire with a state monopoly under a ruler class controlling everything

the scam of the century

No i dont know?

What you talk about, my English could be better but communism is not a verb so i dont know what you mean by 'do communism'...

Okay so then you have a small group of people whose sole purpose is to make laws, that other people have to follow. Assuming that this senate is formed by people with the best of intentions, what happens when a man who wishes to abuse the position joins?

In this setting you are not required to "prove your worth" to society. Everyone just assumes your not drunken, raping, human garbage.
> How dare the government assume I'm not dangerous and insane? TOTALITARIAN ASSHOLES! Fuck Commies, cause I dont want my filthy rich 10 year old son coming home drunk and fucking my dog while he sings in Russian!!! THATS WHY.

Working as slowly and poorly for starters. You're gonna get paid the same unless you start popping out babies like a madman

"who" can be a group of ppl as well
it was called aristocracy

Not a strawman, socialism has been tried several times and failed, but people still advocate for it.

Whomever has the greatest strength will inevitably rise to exert control over the rest. Even in a communist society.

no, ((they)) would control everything

>I'm okay with a regime that sucks for everyone as long as I have nothing to lose
How egalitarian of you

It wouldn't work because reproductive competition would still be there as a motivator for inequality.

>human nature is not fixed
yes it is

>besides it's so magical we can't explain it
No, it's actually very simple. Human nature is a collection of behavioral patterns optimized for survival.

Never put communism near my home again

nope

>Everyone just assumes
There you go again.

>I'm okay with a regime that sucks for everyone as long as I have nothing to lose
well that is exactly what comunism does
it can't lift ppl up so it drags others down

thanks ping

/thread

/ideology

oh you poor, naive little thing.
You dont realize we have 'owners'?
Did daddy Trump sing you to sleep last night?

He has nothing to offer to turn them into his servants.
No army threats.
No secret service.
No personal wealth.

Aristocratic class controlled wealth and army
What class exists in a classless society?
> human nature is fixed.

Ridiculous.
You have people with widely different fetishes ideas moral codes, pleasures, fears etc.

Human nature is an endless river that may flow in every direction.

ikr

>This retarded question
>That stupid fucking picture

Communism is such a fucking joke neck yourself useless

>muh workers own the means of production
but that's complete bullshit

bc teh (((dialectic))) is pretty gay desu

>Working as slowly and poorly for starters.
Robots aren't going to work as slowly and poorly as you are, so why does it matter? Not to mention most people interested in math and science do the work simply because they genuinely want to. The goal is to automate human labor as fast as possible.

You probably think the USSR was socialist. And if you do, explain how it was.

What power are you going to attain? Power structures have been eliminated, there is no upper class and there is no state.

Sure it is. Regardless, Communism is not "the government owns everything", there is no government with communism.

just because you don't name it does not mean it does not exists

>Would true Communism work

Yes, but ONLY if someone as clever as you were put in charge of it. The only reason it appears to have failed in the past is because people who aren't as good hearted and altruistic as you have been in charge.

If you replaced the entire human population with robots, sure.

btw i always wondered how do some ppl take economic ideas of a leecher that siphoned off his friend as genuine

No, all people have the same nature. It manifests itself differently because people have different attributes so their optimal strategy for survival will differ.

I was going to explain, but then it was clear you cant tell the difference between syndicalism and socialism

this desu

>Whomever has the greatest strength
Exactly how would you quantify that?
is it a 'CAN-DO attitude?' Or is it, whoever can lift the most, gets to run the city?
...or are you actually just talking about the plot to Mortal Kombat? One way or another I don't think you went to civics class.

Power structures will form. You underestimate the ambition of man.

>Those that make the argument that "human nature" will render Communism impossible forget that history is nothing but the progressive evolution of human nature

if it's MK i chose GORO

You're conflating strength with physicality.

Then explain it all to me.

>One power-hungry man wants to start a government for power
"No fuck off"
>One power-hungry man tries to start a business for power
"No fuck off"
You can't just say "but it will happen tho"

Who is this fat cunt and how much chin wooble did that quote make?

desire , self-preservation and greed is not something that can be erased out of our genes
without them we will die out as a race

What exists?
Class?
The ideology don't want it.
Sure it might surface... but that isn't a part of it.

No, all people have the same nature.

Why would this be the case ?
Baseless assumption.

>It manifests itself differently because people have different attributes so their optimal strategy for survival will differ.

The prediction of your theory is the same as mine.
What distinguishes you theory that
-all have the same nature but manifests differently
From my
-all do not have the same nature

??

Because if it's the same prediction my theory wins since it makes fewer assumption.

>there is no government in communism
Then it's pretty fucking pointless since you can't have a meaningful society without government and hierarchy.

>Then it's pretty fucking pointless since you can't have a meaningful society without government and hierarchy.
Why?

>Sure it might surface... but that isn't a part of it.
the problem is that exactly because it always surfaces when given the oportunity in comunism that it does not work

No.

see somalia

Those all play into communism tho??
Communism is the result of the dialectic between the proletariat and the bourgeois, which is in part motivated by the selfishness of the proles.

peterleeson.com/Better_Off_Stateless.pdf

>implying the dictatorship authoritarian (((communist))) countries that have existed werent initially attempts at creating a marxist society

Simple, they do it because they themselves are leeches, and will argue that only the idea matters, not the person who says it, and it's fallacious to attack the person.

the road to hell is paved with good intentions describes marxism very well

It's mostly the old organization secret service and army personnel.
Need a fresh beginning.

The state (dictatorship of the proletariat) would protect the interests of the proles until Communism could be established as the ruling ideology.
lrn2Marx

>Explain the difference between socialism and syndicalism in one post.

> If you replaced the entire human population with robots....
> implying the wealthiest powers on the planet arnt currently invested in reducing our social lives to highly controllable frames that can be constantly observed and manipulated to makes us increasingly self-obsessed rather then empathizing with other societies, rising up, and taking the power structure back from our 'masters'
Yeah....A world full of 'robots' is pretty far fetched...

yeah shure an essay wrote by some prick is a better description than what goes on there aka law of the jungle

As if everyone would be in agreement with the status quo. As if one man rather than a group of men would attempt to rise.

Baraka baby

The Plymouth Pilgrims tried pure Communism it was a disaster.

>That picture
>Would cummunism work?
/leftypol/ is more of a joke then nu/pol/ from plebbit.

You understand that there's a reason why it always goes the way it does, right?

The whole premise of Marxism is that there's this downtrodden and idle majority, "the proletariat", and that the capitalists are able to exploit it because it doesn't know any better and blindly accepts its place in the hierarchy. So the people of the proletariat can't just spontaneously uprise because they're conditioned by the hierarchial capitalist society and lack the initiative and the "class awareness", so they need revolutionary leaders to lead them, and because they're up against this ruthlessly efficient capitalist hierarchy, they have to form a hierarchy of their own to fight it. And once they win, the benevolent people at the top are supposed to just disband this new hierarchy that now controls everything out of its sheer faith in the cause of communism. Now guess which part never happens.

>WRONG. Jesus fuck read at least a sentence of Marx.

>The proletariat will replace the capitalist mode of production with a mode of production based on the collective ownership of the means of production, which is called Communism.

have you read marx? no? your just a shitposter?
oh ok good to know you fucking dipshit.

Fun Fact: Karl Marx wasn't the first writer on Communism and Socialism.

Oh come on now, you can simplify, I have some basic understanding so you can just point out how I'm stupid specifically and add context around all that.

>As if everyone would be in agreement with the status quo.
Why wouldn't they?

>Pre-industrial society

>implying we wouldnt have artificial wombs and AI waifus at that point in time

> " You understand that there's a reason why it always goes the way it does, right?"
There's your first Sup Forums tattoo right there.
put that on a T-shirt.

the fucking leechers in the frankfurt school were no better

>sucks for everyone

who say that?

Nobody.

You are making assumption based on what you want to believe.

It is good for everyone.

If it was so bad, you think we would not have another revolution and simply kick out the communism?

People rule this country, not ideology, not political party, we support who we want to support, why does westerners never understand this?

We may not get to vote for any crazy backwards thinking person we like, but i bet your country too has guidelines and regulations for applying to run in elections. This does not make us not democracy or dictatorship.

>communism isn't human
>we are human
>communism wont work for us humans

also, i went on lefty/pol/ today to monitor them and see if they were going to that Berkeley protest thing but it seems like Sup Forums has raided the fuck out of them. When did this happen? I would've loved to be a part of it.

But people want power because it's the best survival strategy. Humans are evolved to want power, you can't get around that.

My theory assumes two things:
- all humans want their genes to survive
- humans aren't born equal
My theory wins because these assumptions are actually true.

(((True Communism)))
Communism is authoritarian by nature shitdick.

Masshole here. Everything they did was a fucking disaster. The Pilgrims were fucking inbred savages.