Redpill me on Universal Basic Income

Redpill me on Universal Basic Income.

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its a blue pill... so best stay naive.. Just believe that its bullshit for lazy hippies

will probably end up making the poor working less hours and therefor living less comfortable while other people live extremely comfortable

What happens when 75% of work is automated?

Won't work until we live in a real post scarcity society. And at that point money should become irrelevant anyways.

sage goes in all fields.

Esentially it's the answer to this

youtube.com/watch?v=7Pq-S557XQU

you innovate and make new jobs

did it for centuries, we can do it again

we didnt just start sitting around doing nothing when the industrial revolution hit, just because the machines could do way more than a single person could anymore

>don't feed the birds

What's there to do in life at that point?

just another name for free handouts.

Dumb. We need to just fix inflation and stop taxing and regulating small businesses into the ground. Also kick all the illegals out and put a halt on all immigration for 30 years so the wages can come back up and there won't be a job shortage

It's a social engineering technique designed to flood black neighborhoods with hordes of white NEETs. That way the niggers can kill the defenseless beta males and help thin out the white race faster.

It can't happen. there just isn't enough money to provide a living wage for nothing to everybody.

And even if there was, NEETs would quickly outbreed your capacity to pay for them.

It's a scam. Pic explains. Basically the new narrative of the old communists to appeal to NEETs and millenials and those wanting free gibs.

They will completely privatise what we're public services and what was free will be paid for out of your "basic income".

Lots of money will be saved on administration of social welfare.

that was a tad different then when automation hits now. A machine then meant that labor got easier (you didn't have to bring coal to a furnace or shovel it in) broadly speaking

what it'd mean now is that labor will disappear.

No one will be able to afford to live on this money of course. It will also be mandatory that this money is used to pay for health insurance. It probably won't be enough money to live except in squalor.

Travel, cook, read, meet with friends, learn history, create/consume art, workout/hone athletic skills, have sex...

Seems like a pretty good life to me.

What about when our AI overlords do all our mental labour for us, and our AI controlled robots do all our physical labour?

It's alright depending on the circumstances, but the spread of the idea so quickly over the past two years has led to fucking retards, like you, who completely misinterpret the original purpose and need of the program

>machines are completely autonomous

Have you ever worked around modern machinery or in a factory?

...

the world has become more productive and automated for thousands of years and people still have jobs.

Blacks had their universal basic income started by LBJ called "war on poverty". Did it help?

Isn't this basically just welfare? Poor people blow that shit on alcohol and lottery tickets

If you have everything given to you,you enter a stagnant lifestyle,you stop wanting more.Its the cancer that will kill civilisation.

75%+ of work is already automated. If we were supposed to pull goods around in hand carts instead of using AUTO-MOBILES controlled by us through an interface, it would take all of us.

By that logic, you should be kicking Americans out too because that'll bring wages up even further because of a lack of labour.

You can do that on social welfare right now.

God, redpanels is the dumbest shit sometimes. If UBI actually worked it would be nothing like communism. No collectivization. Private property and corporations would still exist, and nothing would be stopping you from accumulating massive amount of wealth. It would be the best of both worlds. Now, you can make the argument that UBI is not viable and I would tend to agree, but just saying "lul communism" is fucking retarded.

Not in the US. Weepy libs will claim millions will die without both social services AND their basic income.

We already live in post scarcity society where most of the scarcity is artificial.

The red pill about market system is that it needs scarcity, problems and inefficiencies to function which has lead to a point where a lot of them are artificial and fed to us through advertisements.

youtube.com/watch?v=6xGyKuyGhaE

Why would Americans that are citizens want that? That wouldn't be in their own interest.

Yes, a life without men...

Yeah, that's what we have now.

Sure, there'll be more jobs, specialized jobs, so not for lower skilled people. So there's no or less work for them eventually.

Also, if there's less work low skilled people that means people will either do nothing or also go to college because there's no alternative. They might even go after these jobs that are created; so that means that market gets over-saturated and guess what happens then? More unemployment.

It's a common joke among people who work in robotics that they'll make a new one to fix that and so on and so on"

but yeah, I never said machines are completely autonomous anyway

his argument is sound laddo
we should encouraging women to not enter the job market instead of the absurd situation you proposed

They will have their basic income, minus the cost of paying for and insuring for their services.

Now you have a nice private everything and no administration costs on your social welfare programs.

It's the same system we currently have. Just with a little stream lining.

>Redpill me on Universal Basic Income.

"The primary reason why the individual citizens of a country create a political structure is a subconscious wish or desire to perpetuate their own dependency relationship of childhood. Simply put, they want a human god to eliminate all risk from their life, pat them on the head, kiss their bruises, put a chicken on every dinner table, clothe their bodies, tuck them into bed at night, and tell them that everything will be alright when they wake up in the morning.

This public demand is incredible, so the human god, the politician, meets incredibility with incredibility by promising the world and delivering nothing. So who is the bigger liar? the public? or the "godfather"?

This public behavior is surrender born of fear, laziness, and expediency. It is the basis of the welfare state as a strategic weapon, useful against a disgusting public. "

-----Silent Weapons for Quiet Wars

It's being tested with 2000 random people collecting welfare starting january 2017 in Finland.

Not now, maybe in 50-100 years.

>We already live in post scarcity society where most of the scarcity is artificial.

Sure, but it doesn't matter whether the scarcity is artificial or not in its nature, for the actual problem remains the same nevertheless.

Judging by the rate automation occurs in our industries it is an inevitability. Otherwise you'd have a vastly disproportionate class system with the elites owning 99.9% of the world's wealth, the middle class not existing, and the lower class getting .1% to live off of. That .1% would be used to buy commodities, there wouldn't be enough to go around to buy luxuries. Therefore the market would collapse because a vast amount of products are made yet there's nobody to buy them. This is an exaggeration of course, but it will be a real problem if we continue this trend in the next 100 years. Universal income is merely a proposal to prevent this from happening. With universal income trade can still go on, goods will still be bought and the economy will live on. What most people fail to realize is that it's not about free handouts, it's about keeping economical growth. I don't think it would work out that way, but I understand the intent.

I'm saying that's how it will be sold to the public, but in actuality none of the current administrative apparatus will actually be dissolved. Liberals will scream bloody murder that POC need both to survive, when in reality POC are just buying twice as much malt liquor

"Crudger's Law of the Internet." First person to mention the Robot Apocalypse when discussing AI, loses the argument.

There are going to be two jobs in the future.
You telling machines what to do.
Machines telling you what to do.

As for basic human income: No. You wont need it. The useless people will die. The adaptable people will have jobs. and wealth will largely be measured by the power of the AI that you control; not necessarily the, "Work," that you do.

You do what we've always done, further specialize our jobs and output. The basic income crowd for some reason want to specialize in the newest form of vaginal discharge art, while the other end of the spectrum wants innovation in technology.

Then you have those that want create new technology to control/placate the masses, while also intruding on every aspect of their lives, with the end goal of policing their thoughts. (See:facebook)

It all comes down to satisfying emotional vs logical desires. There should be a balance leaning towards the latter, but instead we lean extremely far to the emotional.

Also conservatives need to stop trying to ban abortion...good god imagine this world with an extra 200 million low oq negros in it

SRS BSNS

You do understand that people, make, clean, load up with whatever product, service, refuel and install these machines right? They are not automated machines are not autonomous

It is a way to create a communist society.

Automation does not have to lead to mass unemployment.

Pointing out that nobody has refuted this, or quantified the savings in welfare they claim will happen. Saging thread.

*automated machines are not autonomous

It is merely a way to remove power from people and give it to the government. You are literally just dependent on government hand-outs. Only communists want this type of society and it is not at all necessary just because machines are doing some things. If machines are doing things, I will make one and make it do things for me.

75% of people adapt or starve. no one is gonna work and give ahmed and jamal free shit just because they're alive. revolting would be suicide because military is also automated and you'd get BTFO in seconds by superior warbots.

the real interesting issue is what happens when we have AI so efficient that it can give us whatever we need with zero human effort. AI that can travel the universe and gather resources and energy and improve itself to the point where it's better than us in any way imaginable, provides us with literally anything (maybe in the form of VR), and the cost of living like a king is absolute zero.

the elite who own it don't have much incentive to keep it to themselves. on the other hand there isn't much incentive in sharing it either. who knows.

It doesn't take a major in economics to understand that such a thing is extremely naive and goes against the core principles of western economies and even the existence of money itself.

Sure, there will be at least some jobs for some people for a long time. But all these fucking NEETs around here can't stop bitching about automation and/or immigrants "stealing" their jobs selling tamales/making toasters/washing dishes/whatever the fuck else position they believe would be handed to them if only Mexicans would go away.

I work in law and have seen a lot of review work disappear because eDiscovery has made it obsolete. Most of these people did not become eDiscovery professions. The work is becoming even more automated, lower the demand for a lot of the (especially) low-level employees in the field.

Despite the unemployment rate in the US being low, the labor participation rate has been on a downward trajectory for years. Innovation is only going to continue this trend. We need to start thinking about how we're going to stay afloat when demand for labor sinks even lower.

Then products become 95% material value, as labor costs plunge to oblivion.

That means only skilled labor (particularly, social and I.T.) will have high value.

There won't be an auto-psychologist, but there may be an auto-oncologist.

It's great for me. It sucks for millennial liberals.

In regards to UBI and automation: we will eventually come to the point where scarcity will be so low that we may need a UBI. That time is nowhere near approaching. All automation will do is necessitate a higher-skilled labor market, meaning everything we do must be *that* much better. UBI doesn't come into play until replicators are built.

Also quantum computers are memes.

A quick skim of this thread shows nobody used numbers. Fucking retards.

The federal budget in 2015 was 3.8 trillion dollars. There are currently 323,00,000 people in the US. If we spent every dime of the federal budget on 'basic income,'

3,800,000,000,000 / 323,000,000 = 11,764

That's less than $12,000 per year per person with zero federal funding anywhere else.

>no one is gonna work and give ahmed and jamal free shit just because they're alive.
As much as I wish this were true, we both know that's not the case.

Sure.

>Poor people have a high marginal propensity to consume.
>Supply them with money.
>They spend it all. Always. And even take out debt to consume more.
>Keeps the circular flow of the economy going.
>Don't need to raise taxes because the state can create money.
>inb4 runaway inflation. The Fed pumped some 50x times the US GDP into the economy (along with the money "multiplied" by the banking industry) and guess what inflation was in 2015? Less than 1%... even with near 0% interest rates and the most government spending ever.
>Modern Monetary Theory will save us all.
>Therefore, UBI is fine so long as it doesn't exclude white men.

>Redpill me on Universal Basic Income.

The last time it was implemented (Rome's grain dole eventually extended to all citizens) it literally brought down civilization for a thousand years.

Humans have not significantly changed since then.

What I think will really happen if automation takes over: A small amount of humans would live in large cities akin to Judge Dredd. Poverty would be rampant due to the low amount of jobs available. Industrial companies would be performing akin to China(ie building skyscrapers for no reason besides dumping money). The majority of people would live outside these cities in rural communities that differ in technological levels. Most external communities would be in the lower-middle industrial era, others would be medieval. Either way they'd pale in comparison to the technological prowess of the cities. Having land for farming would be pointless as vertical gardens take root in the mega cities. The external communities would grow food for sustenance, not to provide for the mega cities. They would have their own insular economies and initiate trade with other communities.

There really is no reason automation leads to a UBI. If a task can be automated, it will be much cheaper, so consumers will have to work less to buy it. Also, they can use automation themselves to make the things they need. In the worst case, the population will decrease to match demand for work, which is a lot better than UBI/communism.

the only reason it's not currently the case is because some form of work is done by almost everyone, there isn't a very tiny minority of people who carry the rest of humanity on its shoulders while everyone else slacks off and enjoys the fruit of their effort without raising a finger. basic human income is just not sustainable, especially when the elite have better guns.

If machines start making everything why don't we just make it ourselves and call it 'hand crafted'

Example: Craigslist destroyed the entire newspaper industry with 13 employees.