I was born to a Republican family with more pictures of Reagan than of my own family. My dad is a100% MAGA, wall Trump voter, but my mom is a minarchist at heart. When my dad would spout off statements beginning with "there should be a law" and "we should use military power", my mom would hand me Mises institute, libertarian memes, Milton Friedman books and others. The transition from 2-3 happened when she asked me if I wanted to go to a three day seminar at Orange CA, hosted by fee.org. at that point, I realized the market can solve any problem. From 2013 to now, I absorbed as much information as I could, debated statist, party puppets, even libertarian minarchists and communists. It was only in early 2016 that I truly understood that there is no problem that the government is capable of solving. That the market can not only do better what the government can do, but does everything that the government can't. 3 months ago, it clicked that not only government is inefficient and lacking, but actively evil. There is nothing the state can do without harming people. There is no problem not caused by the state. The state can do no right. Government is one thing, and one thing only: evil in purest form. Government is why man is banished from Eden, condemned to death. Not only that, but that the market is man's salvation, and the only solution to all woes. Capitalism is the flesh of God in words, just as Christ is the word of God made flesh. Capitalism is the purest good, but government is sin.
I was born to a Republican family with more pictures of Reagan than of my own family. My dad is a100% MAGA...
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You're a giant flippin fuckin faggot quit trying to be edgy
This is my true belief. Tell me one good thing the government has done.
"And I am going to teach all my apostles that we should let evil greedy corporations hoard all their money and keep our employees paid in pennies per hour for hard high-skilled labor and there's nothing anybody can do to stop them. Fuck nobody should do anything to help the poor."
It's been proven that the welfare state is better at keeping people out of poverty than charity organizations + the church.
The homestead act, keeping order. People tend to at least try to have some form of order, and that eventually comes in the form of government throughout history. Common currencies, laws to create order and to protect freedoms. Alan Greenspan finally saw after the financial crash that free market capitalism isn't perfect, and that economic rules put in place can sometimes help.
Money is worthless if not spent. If you are smaug and want to sleep in a pile of gold, the jeweler is payed handsomely. If you want to drive fancy cars, the automobile factory workers get a boost. If you want to be a gourmand, cooks are paid. Money is the means of exchange, not the end goal.
ill be joining the military soon and they will help me pay for school and a valuable occupation with decent benefits, I will be thanking the government for that. Free college, opportunity, a chance to travel the world.
The homestead act keeps worthless people in homes while the skilled but poor immigrants starve. Common currency is not required. Anything is only worth what the seller will accept or what the buyer will pay. Order is created by the market, because disorder stops people from being paid. Humans have more incentive to work than be hooligans. The government destroys freedoms, and sells back filtered versions in the form of licenses. The financial collapse was caused by government interference, Ron Paul warned you.
That's a larger point though. Who is going to spend more money, a billionaire with a basic liquidity of a billion for arguments sake, or a thousand people with a million dollars each? The thousand people will, as they won't be storing their money off shores and reinvest their money through spending on the economy, create local small businesses, etc. That money could be used to spend more money on more cars than the billionaire.
It's a problem when money at the top becomes concentrated at the top. This is why we have some redistributive policies
You are pretty inaccurate and wrong there, give me a second to respond
But even the single billionaire hoard helps the economy. If they hold stocks, companies on the Nasdaq get uplifted. If they put it in banks, the bankers get a cut in management fees, and cut loans to normal people.
>implying you stop at ancap
Come to us at ethno nationalism, you can't have less government without it.
Where's your proof of that for the homestead act? Worthless people? I think that's subjective. It helped to settle parts of the United States, expand the country, about 1.6 million people's claims would be approved. Small farmers had a chance for land, and were incentivized by the government.
I'd argue that many historians see a common currency as an accomplishment of earlier civilizations and helped to establish order. "Order is created by the free market"... or it can be created by the government as well, if things get out of hand.
The private system could also destroy freedoms, you act like they'd be innocent and loving for freedoms. They would be fine with child labor, or slave labor, if there were no checks to them put in place. And no the financial collapse wasn't caused purely by the government, their were mainly market forces involved. A credit crunch, fall of consumer and business confidence, fiscal austerity, instability in credit and financial markets, the housing bubble, Things like the adjustable mortgage rate or whatever, bad loans from banks and loosened criteria for giving mortgages, people simply being misled by banks, bad loans packaged and resold and given good credit ratings, banks short of liquidity.
I don't understand, what is ethno nationalism and why does it preclude a lack of government?
I would think, judging by the name, some sort of governing body must guard the border, and their salaries are paid through taxation, which is theft.
Stopping communists from gaining power
I'm not saying he doesn't, I'm not demonizing entrepreneurs, I'm just saying sometimes their money can go to waste. Which is why we have proportional taxes aka income taxes.
Do you think billionaires have to pay as much in taxes as a share of their income when it comes to the sales tax? I don't think so. Add any other regressive tax in there and you see my point.
I believe in the mixed economy, of the free market and government each playing their role in creating prosperity.
Taxation isn't theft, we've been over this before. As being part of the state and voting on certain laws, you legally agree to pay a certain share of your money. This is legal, the opposite of theft.
We're a Republic and our representatives have voted for taxes, both locally and in Congress, which has some control over taxes due to the Constitution, thus making the "taxes is theft" argument even more dubious
Try disagreeing then, and see how voluntary that arrangement truly is.
> (You)
>Where's your proof of that for the homestead act? Worthless people? I think that's subjective. It helped to settle parts of the United States, expand the country, about 1.6 million people's claims would be approved. Small farmers had a chance for land, and were incentivized by the government.
Homesteading sells land for cheap which the government has no claim to. A farmer worth anything could purchase the land fairly from Natives, rather than purchasing second hand after it is stolen by the military.
>I'd argue that many historians see a common currency as an accomplishment of earlier civilizations and helped to establish order. "Order is created by the free market"... or it can be created by the government as well, if things get out of hand.
Order can be created by the government, but when government's create order, people are killed. The market creates order with liberal application of money to all involved parties. Workers strike? Increase their pay or find new workers.
Economists hypothesized that at the end of the reign of the Roman empire, the gold became worthless by virtue of having the Caesars face on it. Gold is still valuable, but sometimes, the portraits of dead presidents are not.
>The private system could also destroy freedoms, you act like they'd be innocent and loving for freedoms. They would be fine with child labor, or slave labor, if there were no checks to them put in place. And no the financial collapse wasn't caused purely by the government, their were mainly market forces involved. A credit crunch, fall of consumer and business confidence, fiscal austerity, instability in credit and financial markets, the housing bubble, Things like the adjustable mortgage rate or whatever, bad loans from banks and loosened criteria for giving mortgages, people simply being misled by banks, bad loans packaged and resold and given good credit ratings, banks short of liquidity.
Child labor happened during a time with a (p1/2)
Ethno nationalism = homogeneous societies, specifically white nationalism is what we want (assuming you're a colony like the US/Aus, for French French Ethno Nationalism is what you want). They have considerably less crime and requires less rules. To add to this, as a homogeneous white country you don't have non-whites who vote for bigger government.
It's literally the only way you're going to be able to reduce government.
This is how certain systems of government work, and I think it's generally a stable way of doing things. How about you pay no taxes and have every single benefit the state gives you and takes it away? No mortgage deductions or low income housing subsidies, no food stamps or your beautiful NHS buddy.
So if I vote, I agree to taxation. If I don't vote, I agree to taxation. If I live in the state I was born in, I allow myself to be taxed by not leaving. I to leave, I must possess a passport, but signing a passport means I agree to an expatriate tax. If I smuggle myself out of the country illegally, I'll be shot by border guards.
I'd be glad to accept such an arrangement. Unfortunately it's not available.
The value of state services is always less than the value of revenue, because resources are squandered in economic inefficiency and excessive management.
So if I vote, I agree to taxation. If I don't vote, I agree to taxation. If I live in the state I was born in, I allow myself to be taxed by not leaving. I to leave, I must possess a passport, but signing a passport means I agree to an expatriate tax. If I smuggle myself out of the country illegally, I'll be shot by border guards.
There are many white statists. Look at the third wave radfems. Worth mentioning, most members of government are white. My dad's a white statist, my mom's a Filipina minarchist.
May I suggest bleach?
By being in the country you agree to a form of contract with the country, my house my rules kind of thing.
Just wait until you reach the final stage of progression, user.
So property is owned and controlled by the state, including the product of your labour? And you're not a slave how exactly?
So if I vote, I agree to taxation. If I don't vote, I agree to taxation. If I live in the state I was born in, I allow myself to be taxed by not leaving. I to leave, I must possess a passport, but signing a passport means I agree to an expatriate tax. If I smuggle myself out of the country illegally, I'll be shot by border guards.
There are many white statists. Look at the third wave radfems. Worth mentioning, most members of government are white. My dad's a white statist, my mom's a Filipina minarchist.
Money beats guns. I don't need to make my enemy dead if I can make us rich friends
>There are many white statists. Look at the (((third wave radfems))). Worth mentioning, most members of government are (((white))).
Wow, so you're saying people who are indoctrinated with marxist (jewish) propaganda are going to try and increase the size of the government?
Who would've thought.
Fascists want to expand the influence of the state, you wouldn't accuse hitler and co. to be under the influence of jewish marxists would you? Not every white is your ally.
The government did have a claim to it though, that's the thing. And you think the natives would let them purchase land cheaper? I don't think so. There was a lot of free, uncultivated land, and it helped to expand the United States and give a lot of poor farmers a better opportunity at life. Because they sure weren't incentivized to buy it as much when the natives were there.
People aren't ALWAYS killed, and I know private companies wouldn't be above hiring private mercenaries to intimidate people, or other workers or companies. They would be out trying to protect their own economic interest, which does not come to the benefit of everyone all the time. Monopolies can be formed. And sometimes people are kept in shitty working conditions because they have nowhere else to go. The argument that if there was no government and then the market would create peace is a complete lie. There would be more instability with no centralized authority to dictate any control.
Companies could set tolls on certain roads they control, and could leverage any price they want and you would have no control over the price of them, which is why we leave some things to the government.
I agree with you mate. despite all the memes, ancap is the final redpill
but realize its not a very viable strategy right now, that's why trump must do for the moment
My posts aren't sending. Fucking hell
same here wtf
radfems are communists
The moment you dismantle the state is the moment the communists take it from you. They want the state to fall just as much as you do, and they are much better at tearing it apart to spark a revolution than you are.
Wew lad, way to twist my words.
Property isn't owned and controlled by the state, you're living on property that's on a large section of land the state is protecting for you. You know, just like how ancaps would work in reality, a protection agency (let's call them the state) protecting your land for a fee (let's call it taxation), they try and protect you from crime and invasion and can even expand to help with medical issues.
>m-muh fascist boogyman
Fascism exists to restore law and order to a troubled society.
Since you seem to think Hitler actually did anything wrong (aside from losing), how about you lurk more newfag.
>the free market will solve our problems
Can't wait to buy child slaves.
Gee, you make such a good case, we should really just drop laws against racketeering. Clearly it's in the best interest of property owners to be forced to pay for protection from a detached monopoly, with failure to pay leading to imprisonment. What a fantastic deal.
Lemee tell you about roads, my good sir
Are you twelve years old? "Hours of research", still think Ayn Rand is libertarian, not realizing that government officials are just representing preferred groups of people, or that those people wouldn't be even worse if directly left to act on their own. Open a goddamn book, or if you live in commiefornia look out your window.
tldr you talk like a fag and your shits all retarded.
So wait, you're saying we need laws?
What happened to being an ancap? I thought you ancaps hated laws because they held back the free market.
And reminder, you're knowingly living in the area they're protecting, if you don't like it just leave. I hear Somalia has quite the anarchy going on.
Actually not true. Here is a source with intext cited studies into this exact question!
theadvocates.org
I refuse to argue with someone who's being wilfully retarded.
funny thing is somalia actually got better with anarchy
The natives would have sold it for more. That's why the farmers were worthless. They couldn't afford the land from the natives, so they sent the military to get it for cheap.
The NAP prohibits using armed mercenaries for anything but self defense, and economics enforces this simply with the fact that dead people can't do work.
Don't forget, the state has a monopoly on all nationalized businesses, and anyone who tries to stop the government from erecting a toll road is shot.
You don't need a central authority to grow. Grass doesn't need Mexicans and cows don't need farmers. Instability is growth!
Except I'm not allowed to leave without a passport. If I leave without it, border guards shoot me. If I get my passport stamped, I pay expatriate taxes to defend land I don't live on.
funny thing is somalia actually got better with anarchy kek
You're the ancap who wants laws against racketeering, that sounds pretty wilfully retarded to me.
Anyone else having connection issues?
You ever notice how every gathering of libertarian minded people is mad up of 99% white males?
You ever notice how blacks overwhelmingly vote democrat who in return expand government and increase their gibs? You ever notice how theirs a growing number of single mothers doing the same thing?
The only way ancap works is if your population is intelligent enough to see it's merits and trust in the free market. As well as follow the NAP.
There's only one way your ever going to be able to reach the kind of population.
dude like what if
>takes a hit of weed lmao
what if we got rid of government dude
>coughs up a lung
like it's bad ya know? the market is so good though
>sips bong water
so like we could just buy and sell things and the market would just do all the stuff the government did before but better because uhh money and shit dude
>stares at wall for a full fifteen minutes
what do you mean the market can't exist without a government to enforce order?
>Except I'm not allowed to leave without a passport.
Then get a passport.
>If I get my passport stamped, I pay expatriate taxes to defend land I don't live on.
Consider it a leaving tax.
I thought you wanted to leave, there's the door, there's the cost. Leave and you'll never have to pay taxes again, or you stay and pay taxes for the rest of your life. You've clearly made your decision haven't you.
Face it, you want government to protect you from actual anarchy, you're just being an edgy contrarian child.
Markets cannot exist in the presence of government. Order occurs naturally and spontaneously for the production of goods. Government enforcement of order stifles competition.
>Order occurs naturally and spontaneously for the production of goods
In a homogeneous society sure, if the government disappeared tomorrow niggers would loot everything from the producers.
So there is no situation in which I am not taxed? Also, expatriate taxes continue even if I never come back. If I leave, I still have to pay taxes. It's not a tax to get through the door, I still have to send money back ask the fucking time. It's not freedom, it's parole.
Not all niggers are bad. Not all Whites are good. Look at Detroit. The looters are shot by shopkeeps with AKs, the good niggers show up to work the next day and work to earn shit.
See? You're complaining there's an option of leaving.
The option's there and it's a small fee, especially when compared to paying taxes for the rest of your life.
And you do realize you can renounce your citizenship, right? The only ones that would have trouble with that are the super rich in America, most countries will just let you go.
Show me all of those markets that have existed in the absence of government then, since that's where they naturally exist.
The government can stop foreign interests from moving to your land then voting, or taking, your rights away
Retard
Only whites aren't tribal
But you have to pay expatriate taxes for the rest of your life. You don't actually leave.
If there's no government, foreigners can't vote my rights away. Next!
Similar to how you inherit property from your parents, you also inherit a contract with the state.
There is a perfectly reasonable exit clause in the contract: You can leave.
Read "I, pencil" and tell me where in that story, government is required. Government red tape stops work and stops charity.
My eagle scout project got blocked for 4 years due to government red tape.
Yes yes we get it, you're a cuck that thinks #notallmuslims! Better open our borders then right?
"N-not all X" isn't an argument, they're vastly overrepresented in crime regardless of income levels. The bad whites tend to be outliers, the ones who are truly bad that can't feel remorse are even more outliery.
With niggers, they aren't even outliers. Like 1/4 black men go to jail. What makes it worse is the good ones are only good for a generation, breeding reverts them towards the mean.
They don't belong in our countries.
Pretty sure you don't. But let's assume you do: Have you tried not paying? I don't think Somalia's government will hunt you down.
if every ancap left somewhere and created a society of their own how long do tou think it would last until some state gobbled it up? obviously it wont work until there is a sizable population with a similar mentality enough to defend it
Invalid
>Persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should be aware of the fact that renunciation of U.S. citizenship may have no effect on their U.S. tax or military service obligations
>T. Travel.state.gov
It's time to start putting 9mm in the heads of (((antifa)))
Thanks for proving my point shlomo, your meme ideology is a joke even by Sup Forums standards.
Yeah, your neighbors can.
What's to keep people from tribeing up, pooling their resources and going to war with you?
Go look at africa, or north america before white people l built a government. That's what a stateless society looks like.
Is constant war over resources worth more freedom to you?
14 US bombs were dropped into Somalia during the Obama administration.
We can't get rid of all of them. Precluding crime violates the NAP. Only retaliation is just.
My point does not prove your point. The government blocked progress. The absence thereof creates progress.
>T. Catholic
>With niggers, they aren't even outliers. Like 1/4 black men go to jail.
aussie cunts think this
NAP doesn't exist m8, the guy shooting you in the back didn't agree to it.
Rights cannot exist without a government to enforce them.
Or rather, only one right exists in anarchy, and that's might.
If goods do not cross borders, soldiers will. All I have to do is be worth more alive than dead to enough people that they would rather protect me for my skill than kill me for my gold.
He doesn't have to agree to it to be shot. I can cut parts of my pay to body guards if the market decides I am worth enough to afford guards.
>All I have to do is be worth more alive than dead to enough people
You aren't worth shit, you aren't the warlord across the road. The only way you're going to be "worth" anything is if you pay them taxes to protect you.
Rights are taken away by the government, as the government is the only entity with the legal right to use force. In anarchy, the only right is to trade.
>I can cut parts of my pay to body guards if the market decides I am worth enough to afford guards.
I thought taxation was theft.
NAP is a meme. It only works if you can get every human in your society to follow it, humans have NEVER been able to achieve that. The state state steps in when the NAP fails. It's role is to provide the safe environment for a market to flourish.
Not necessarily me specifically. If I am worth money, I live. If I'm the user from Portugal above, I die. Taxation is theft, if I agree to it, it's not taxation, but a fee I pay willingly for protection.
Taxation is involuntary. If I consent to paying for guards, it's not taxation.
>if I agree to it, it's not taxation
You don't have a choice in agreeing to it, you'll die if you don't do it (whether the people you're paying taxes to do it themselves or other people do it).
The state isn't the only entity which may wield a Кaлaшникoвa. I am allowed to defend myself and my neighbor (if my neighbor consents to my help).
>In anarchy, the only right is to trade.
In anarchy I have the right to murder you in your sleep. Who's to say otherwise?
Exactly. Taxation by definition is involuntary. I don't have a choice in agreeing to it. That's why taxation is theft.
LOL
O
L
You don't have a choice in the matter, you pay taxes or die.
In anarchy, you don't possess the right to murder me in my sleep, as to do so, you must enter my property, and take that which is not yours (human life). Bastiat poses that the right which is intrinsic is to defend one's property including his body.
I'm talking about the taxes you're paying to the warlord to keep you alive you retard.
It's voluntary insofar as you can choose not to pay, you'll just be killed/harmed/abducted for not paying. Sounds a lot like our taxation doesn't it?
>you don't possess the right to murder me in my sleep
Why are you restricting his rights?
What are you a statist?
That's why taxation is theft. "Give me your money or I'll kill you!". Theft
You live next door to the mafia. Either you pay the protection "fee" or they kill you (or tell bandits where you live and that they can get away with killing you). How is this not a tax?
You can't defend yourself, you're sleeping and I payed off your security.
this board is 18+
Please come back when you finish high school lad. the last thing we need here is more teenage angst
I don't need to pay the warlord a tax not to kill me. I can sell shit to him. We haven't invaded Japan in 60 years, because if we invade them, they stop making anal Loli vore hentai. It's worth it for us and them. "Don't invade" is not a good. We send them goods as well, and they send cars. Symbiotic relationships exist. Retake 6th grade biology
Do you not understand the problem here?
And yet you'll willingly pay it to the warlord.
You don't have to live in a state that offers its protection and resources to you. Your citizenship is a contract, and taxation is part of that contract. That contract is voluntary.
You could go to Africa and be a warlord.
you have this completely fucking retarded notion running through your head that the McWarlord next door is 100% rational 100% of the time.
>I can sell shit to him.
Sounds like a payment to me. Unless you sell shit to him at a lower cost than you'd sell to others (let's call it a tax) he has no reason to buy them from you.
We haven't invaded japan in 60 years because our state has made an agreement with their state, not because of the products they create.
We haven't invaded Africa either and they produce fucking nothing.