Intellectual Property belongs to everyone-

But don't worry, this is not communism.

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Why not all property? Then all the factory's could be run by society to make things that people need.

Except it doesnt.

What the fuck kind of entitlement do you think you deserve?

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You assume that this is not how it works currently- thing is that factories also NEED people to do work that they don't want to do- hence money.

We could replace money with vouchers and if you work yuo get labor vouchers and then you can trade them for stuff but not do capitalist stuff with them.

People have a right to live- IP holders don't have the right to withhold tech that can help people live better.

Does the factor exist without someone having to work to build it?

Ancap here. Intellectual property isn't real property. It's just a made up, state sponsored restriction on what you are allowed to do with your actual, physical property.

Does it exist without workers?

...

Factory owners pay builders.

Look at the body I wrote..."but don't worry, this is not communism."....get someone non-autistic to answer your question.

Not the full value of there labor they don't. Workers generate more money for the company than the owners pay them. Otherwise the company would have no profit. Workers work extra just to create profit for there boss.

It is, actually. Intellectual property is an inefficiency that is required for capitalism to ""function"".

> Workers generate more money for the company than the owners pay them.

The wage anyone earns is between the value the create and their next best option (their opportunity cost)- as such, both profit (worker: wage - opportunity cost)(boss: value - wage).

That's the magic- more value is created than is input- and the created value is distributed between the worker and the boss.

"It is" meaning that IP enforcement is communism?

I make a chair. The chair sells on the market for 20$ I only get 5$ my boss gets 15$. Theft.

Your boss has no expenses?...

No, you said "Intellectual Property belongs to everyone, but don't worry, this is not communism." I said "it is".

>ancap here
>Intellectual property isn't real property
>the less rich lose the last semblance of protection or justice from bigger businesses with deeper pockets
>at that point, the state just protects the big business from military retaliation
Did you even think your shit ideology through?

I left that out for simplicity but it doesn't matter. Its still theft unless the worker gets all 20$ minus the cost of materials.

Ah, I was right in determining what you meant. I agree with you...just not sure why the /s of the text is not coming through...

I agree. In fact, I think patents hurt capitalism instead of help it. You effectively eliminate competition by saying no one else can make what I have, and it is a ridiculous concept to apply property to ideas. Patents are why Games Workshop is so expensive and so pants on head retarded, they have no competition so they don't ever need to improve their business model.

Your boss, for the trouble of running his business, earns nothing?...what is the line between labor and non-labor?

>the less rich lose the last semblance of protection or justice from bigger businesses with deeper pockets
pfft yeah that's what copyright does are you stupid? Copyrights pretty much only serve mega rich corporations right now.

So what does someone get for cleaning the floors of a car factory? Or for being a truck driver? Nothing? Because they didn't personally produce the products you think they should get nothing? You selfish jerk.

Look up patent trolling and the damage it does.

But yes, capitalists will sooner or later will try to corrupt the government and rig it in their favour, something corporate fascists are too naive to understand.

This. Information is not property. Even if you choose to treat it as such, IP laws are unenforceable beyond your country's borders, so it is pointless. This is how China has amassed so much wealth - by ignoring patent law.

>Because they didn't personally produce the products you think they should get nothing?
This is what I want the answer to...but all we'll get from him is some bs...wait for it.

>capitalists will sooner or later will try to corrupt the government
yes...which is what libertarians are saying dumbass. We are saying keep the market and government separate.

Reminder that
>COPYRIGHTS=/=PATENTS
COPYRIGHTS=/=PATENTS
>PATENTS=/=COPYRIGHTS
PATENTS=/=COPYRIGHTS

Talking about 'intellectual property' as some whole is erroneous.

>capitalists will sooner or later will try to corrupt the government and rig it in their favour
This exists since the foundation of any government.

They're the same thing. The exact same. GTFO lolbertarian.

>We are saying keep the market and government separate.
You can't. Economics are a fourth branch of government, whether you like it or not. Material conditions will influence the population's moral character, which their personal politics are an extension of.

>You can't.
We did it for fucking years. You can be a fucking pedant and say, "ooo people vote based on their lives" but that is a fucking cop out.

Then make the chair yourself.
>PROBLEM SOLVED
It's not theft because you're mutually agreeing on your payment.

China's wealth per person is really low- and they are only allowed to ignore IP so long as they make our shit...which will decrease as their economy grows.

I wouldn't wait for a well thought out answer if I were you, none of communism makes any sense to begin with. The capitalist saves up resources from his labor, he takes the risk, and innovates new and more efficient ways to improve his business, but screw him right? That factory worker was the one who built that car (using materials the capitalist bought) so he should clearly get all of the reward!

What do miners get? I mean, it's not like they make any cars, so do they just get raw ore and minerals? And it's not like farmers personally built those tractors, so I guess its back to the hand plow for them.

>We did it for fucking years.
Which years? Clarify, before I call you an idiot.

>Material conditions will influence the population's moral character
This is STRAIGHT from Atlas Shrugged. Ayn Rand discredited this idiocy 60 years ago.

But I can't make the chair as cheaply/quickly as my greedy boss enables us to.

Actually we do, That's the entire point, I wouldn't help you after all.

You are not entitled to anyone's service let alone their creations.

...

The gilded age.

It is because of ignorant vapid pieces of shit like OP
Things like
sott.net/article/228583-Scientists-cure-cancer-but-no-one-takes-notice
Go ignored.

lets sieze the means of production then produce nothing.

communists are all the same empty headed and selfish.

Responding to every post by OP at once is pretty autistic, and I'm not entirely sure what your first sentence means, but I basically agree.

There is no motivation for innovation whatsoever without intellectual property. This isn't an abstract philosophy, this has very real effects in the world. Look at the amount and quality of medicine the United States has invented in the past 20 years, then look China's invented medicine in the past 20 years. It's a clear difference.

I can sort of understand OP being upset, but said breakthroughs being "withheld" wouldn't exist in the first place if they were given out on creation.

>That factory worker was the one who built that car (using materials the capitalist bought) so he should clearly get all of the reward!
I find it odd how they differentiate between labor and non labor...just blows my mind. The mental gymnastics are amazing.

they will destroy your farm and eat your food because they did the work in picking it out of the ground in the night.

>let alone their creations.
user, what you have just said is the ENTIRE FOUNDATION OF CAPITALISM. What you are supporting is what is called property rights, you don't have the right to what I have made, so thus if you want to use what I have produced you can only do so on my terms.

The first sentence was coming from the position of a creator slaving away for years to make something to make a living then people steal it.

voluntary transactions you dumb nigger. Nobody is entitled to anything. All individual economic decisions are made with the assumption both sides will come out better for it. This is economics you can learn in high school

idk if you can keep your information to yourself then you solely own it. But once info become public its up for grabs.

Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his brow?

Fuck off commie.

Who cares? You're forgetting this is Sup Forums. I almost guarantee that 99% of people here already torrent everything anyway

Exactly I will pay you and follow your guidelines and rules thank you for this service.

>now imagine if I where a pinko fuck "YOU OWE ME WHERES YOUR MANAGER"

>sott.net/article/228583-Scientists-cure-cancer-but-no-one-takes-notice
You're saying that it's my fault that government approval of drugs costs too much for a non patentable drug to come to market....perhaps its the government's fault.

After all, if insurance companies could save TRILLIONS, why would they not use 1-2B to pass the treatment...

>1870-1900
You mean the times which gave birth to political cartoons such as this? Where people complain about trusts and monopolies controlling the government? Which lead to the fucking Sherman Act of 1890?

That time? Where economy and politics you think were separate? Are you ACTUALLY FUCKING RETARDED?

I dont share my idea or invention. Check mate faggot. I'm going back to eating ramen.

YES THATS EXACTLY WHAT I AM SAYING IT IS UP TO YOU TO HOLD POLITICIANS ACCOUNTABLE.

>NOT LET THEM FUCK YOUR KIDS IN THE ASS.

>figuratively and literally.

POLITICIANS WORK FOR THE PEOPLE

WE DO NOT WORK FOR THEM

with what fucking materials? you think you own trees?

Don't worry, trust and human kinship will keep us together and honest!

certainly you can also buy little potted plants


hahahaha fuck you scumbag

Intellectual "property" is a meme. If I "steal" your IP, you still have it!

My stance is that if information is unlikely to have been discovered by more than the creator, than the creator owns it.

But at the same time, I don't believe that such can be morally enforced in a non-voluntary society- which can't exist when countries "own" (without homesteading) so much land.

Explain how patent protections can be enforced without government subsidies. Pro-tip: you can't.

A miner who used his labor to build mining equipment, then let workers use his equipment to earn a wage, as long as the minerals went to him. Then, we bartered, and I gave him money for his minerals, which I refined into usable metal and shaped into car parts in my factories.

Can you provide a single fact to back that up?

>certainly you can also buy little potted plants
Wants to replace mass production with potted vegetables. LMFAO

You have to remember China has billions of "people" they've got more top slavemasters than we have total population

China has amassed wealth by being a cheap workshop and selling us tat.

The Chinese are as greedy as jews and as brazen as niggers, and will cheerfully screw you at the first opportunity. But there patent system isn't bad though, and heavily modeled on the European system. The Chinese themselves file thousands of domestic patents, far outstripping other countries.
Where it gets difficult is actually suing the bastards, the small infringers will disappear like morning dew. Larger established companies can be taken on though.
Their design law and trade mark law is bullshit though.

As a general comment on this thread, there are many areas of technology where the development costs are large, but once developed, the product's easily copied. Pharmaceuticals cost millions to develop and test, but are trivial to copy, half the stuff wouldn't get done without patents. Why the fuck would an inventor invest in developing something if they knew everyone else will just copy them?

Intellectual property shouldn't exist.

I don't know about the book, but banning intellectual property would realistically result in the sort of rampant cut throat capitalism seen in the Chinese domestic market.

Lead, Arsenic, Fire...need I go on?

>unable to greentext or discern meaning.

Yes because the item directly petrains to the type of ownership.
>Hint : It doesn't you are dumb.

Eh? The patent system is a revenue generator for governments, from filing and renewal fees, and the patent holder pays for enforcement.

>If I trespass on your land, you still have it!
>If I impregnate your daughter, your still have her!

>Why the fuck would an inventor invest in developing something if they knew everyone else will just copy them?
If I cum on you face, you still have your face.

That would never happen though, Canadians only get aroused when they suck dogs' cocks.

Implying that it's bad?

No. IPs have value, like anything physical. You make bread, you can sell it to those who need it. You come up with a service and you can sell the service. You come up with the idea and you can sell the idea too.

Only those who are incapable of coming up with something of value want something like that. Seeing as you're a fucking leaf, I'm guessing you're a subhuman Chink too who are known to be creatively bankrupt.

...is it not obvious, from "but don't worry, this is not communism," that I am pro-IP?...

Just inconvenient. I don't have a dog.

Imagine how well a girl would suck your dick if her food/shelter/life depended upon how well she did...and remember that dogs also cannot bitch like females.

Property only belongs to those who are capable of controlling its use.

If I'm bigger than you, and take what is yours...and when you attack me I shoot you in self defense....

Correct. Though property generally uses legal remedies and monetary damages.
Without power to enforce your ownership rights you have no ownership rights.

>I don't understand IP nor the process to create it
It's ok to be retarded user.

>Without power to enforce your ownership rights you have no ownership rights.
This is what government does- they have as much power to enforce IP as they do to enforce physical theft- someone may steal your tools, and use them...but in the end only the owner gets to use their tools.

It's not required. It just makes it easier for the rich get richer. Thousand cuts etc.

All those 'functioning' socialist countries...