Communism general

Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.

Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.

What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:

>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.

>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."

>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/

ML uses a philosophy called dialectical materialism, see here:

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/1938/09.htm

It is reccomended that you read some of the critical works of Marxism-Leninism so you can make an informed assessment of the ideology.

Resources:

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/sw/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/sw/

marxists.org/reference/archive/stalin/works/decades-index.htm

marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/

marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1884/origin-family/

marxists.org/archive/lenin/works/1914/mar/11.htm

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=G136GODWKhc
youtube.com/watch?v=USUe-HmUu8s
youtube.com/watch?v=crhnYgpUJBk
youtube.com/watch?v=oCSNa38MQrI
twitter.com/AnonBabble

>each according to their ability, to each according to their need

Apparently many people needed time in gulag picking blocks of frozen piss.

...

reprotin

Hi comrade

A communist society would free individuals from long working hours by first automating production to an extent that the average length of the working day is reduced and second by eliminating the exploitation inherent in the division between workers and owners. A communist system would thus free individuals from alienation in the sense of having one's life structured around survival (making a wage or salary in a capitalist system), which Marx referred to as a transition from the "realm of necessity" to the "realm of freedom." As a result, a communist society is envisioned as being composed of an intellectually-inclined population with both the time and resources to pursue its creative hobbies and genuine interests, and to contribute to creative social wealth in this manner. Karl Marx considered "true richness" to be the amount of time one has at his or her disposal to pursue one's creative passions.Marx's notion of communism is in this way radically individualistic.

...

...

youtube.com/watch?v=G136GODWKhc

>WHITE ARMY OUT OF NOWHERE

I don't think this thread will be very lively. Unless a bunch of people decide to spam it with may-mays.

sauce me the fuck up senpai

Remember to purge atleast one commie today!

>needing to appropriate a march written by a man who volounteered to join the Red Army, played during Lenin's funeral and later became kapellmeister in an NKVD division, playing this march during Red Army parade of 1941
How sad.

youtube.com/watch?v=USUe-HmUu8s

Vete a twitter anda...

...

How do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society?

But then you have three separate job classifications which cannot survive in an equivalent salary due to the disparity in job skills needed.

I'm assuming the low-skilled machine workers, the technical machine mechanics and the highly techinical machine creators would be given the same wage and same access to the commune.

That's asking for lack of initiative from the upper two classes which would lead to striking in a capitalist society but since that can't happen in communism you would just end up with large angered portion of your workforce which your economy is entirely contingent upon.

>marxsism-leninism
the stormfront of marxism

A communist economic system would be characterized by advanced productive technology that enables material abundance, which in turn would enable the free distribution of most or all economic output and the holding of the means of producing this output in common. In this respect communism is differentiated from socialism, which, out of economic necessity, restricts access to articles of consumption and services based on one's contribution.

That's why even most communists see Marx's vision of communism as a distant utopia that will maybe become achievable after we progress scientifically to the point where two lower classes are fully replaced by robots and AI's, a post scarcity world. Think something like Star Trek.
The thing that's achievable right now is socialism - a meritocratic system that aims to provide people with equality of opportunity rather than equality of the outcome. Free education, healthcare, housing and all that, but people are still different depending on how talented, intelligent and hardworking they are.

Nah, that's Trotskyism.

How do you automate anything without knowing any costs? The cost of a machine might be greater than the lifetime of its work.

Secondly, who would actually make such machines and work day after day to keep them just so some communist losers can live for free?

What cost?

communism debunked

> communism will be so productive everything will be free!

That isn't an economic theory, an explanation of how your system would work, nor any realistic insight. That is literally raw fantasy.

...

>DSG: Dick Sucking Genera

>tfw browsing this thread while warthundering in soviet tanks
C O M R A D E

As a matter of fact, CAPITALISM is already so productive (and has been so productive for about 200 years now) that everything could be free.

...

How so, you delusional idiot?

Why isn't everything in North Korea free?

Things take work to make, that is an absolute fact. There's no "everything could be free". Your mind is chaotic and nonsensical.

I presume he means that in a capitalist society prices are determined by supply and demand and wants to know how they are determined in a socialist society.
In a theoretical Communist society there are no costs, everything is free. For socialist societies it's a tricky question. In some socialist countries prices were determined by the government (which usually lead to deficits, as supply of government owned industries didn't have a well thought out way of fitting in with demand, USSR for example), while some socialist countries that don't necessarily shun the free market determine it the same way capitalists do, China is an example.

...

>In a theoretical Communist society there are no costs

You fucking moron.

When you do something, you are taking costs.

For example, when I chose to use a glass of water to drink, I'm taking the costs of not using this glass of water to water my plants, or sell it, or bathe myself with it.

Costs are a fact of reality. They are not a capitalist construct.

You delusional fucking idiot.

>Things take work to make, that is an absolute fact.
And work doesn't need the perspective of a trade to be done, that's another absolute fact. Production for the sake of value, ie: capitalism, is both recent and outdated.

Does your wife make you pay when she cooks for you?

Read to this post please , you seem to misunderstand what I mean by "Communist society"

I'm not saying that we could magically shift to fully automated gay anime communism right now, I even gave you a few examples of how that worked, and still works for some countries in real world.

>And work doesn't need the perspective of a trade to be done

I don't give a fuck. You said everything could be free. Are you trying to pretend you didn't write that? Faggot.

How do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society?

>For example, when I chose to use a glass of water to drink, I'm taking the costs of not using this glass of water to water my plants, or sell it, or bathe myself with it.
And whatever you chose to do with your glass of water, you won't try and determine what is the most profitable; your decision will be based solely on the USE-value of your drink, your plants, etc.

This is a perfect example of how "costs" will be determined in communism. Thank you.

This is where other issues arise though, socialism isn't inherently meritocratic or at least it is as meritocratic as capitalism. Also, most developed countries already have equality of opportunity.

Socialized healthcare and education sounds nice but it effectively entails to keep the educators and doctors as resources to be used by the state (or whatever you would call the centralized power structure).

One thing that I've seen as constant is that while communists and socialists preach that the individual gets maximized freedom, that freedom is secondary to the commune.

Hypothetically, if a specialized and necessary professor doesn't want to teach a semester at university while in capitalism he could supplant this loss in funds by working part time at a starbucks, there is no such thing in communism, you either take the job given to you or you lose access to the commune as to reassign jobs costs the organized power structure resources.

Bureaucracy ends up developing to keep track of everything which creates large and expensive wait times (this normally ends up being the downfall of most socialized institutions).

Can you answer my question? How do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society?

so you are saying all communist societies are just pipe dream fantasies with loads of ifs maybes and whens?

>This is a perfect example of how "costs" will be determined in communism. Thank you.

Answer the question then, how do you know whether a good is worth its costs under communism?

If there is no trade I don't pay for anything, by definition. In other words: everything is free. Your wife's meal being free doesn't mean that she didn't have to work to make it, neither does it mean that she didn't have to chose wether she was gonna use the bolognese to make spaghetti or lasagna.

>how do you know whether a good is worth its costs under communism?
There is no value concept under communism. Your question makes no sense.

>when you realize that profitability for corporation is the same as the best use of a glass of water for you

I said exactly the opposite.

In a communist society there are no costs. Also communist society doesn't exist yet and I explained why. Then I explained how costs are determined in socialist countries. I don't know how I can make this more clear.

It's an ideal. There's nothing wrong with striving towards perfection, even if that perfection is currently unachievable. Humanity made many breakthroughs in it's history that would seem completely fantastic to people from the past and I'm sure we'll be able to achieve communism one day. Socialism is not an ideal, it's a compromise of an ideal with imperfections of our present day reality.

>Your wife's meal being free doesn't mean that she didn't have to work to make it

Neat, you just discovered that costs exist.

Now tell me how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society.

>determine what is the most profitable; your decision will be based solely on the USE-value of your drink, your plants, etc.
and how does a corporation determine the USE-VALUE? the highest profitability

Is it my question that makes no sense of communism that makes no sense?

Because the fact that you have no concept of value sounds like your problem.

See: If you still don't get it, let me try to explain. What does it mean, when product A is worth its cost? Caution, I'm not asking how you determine whether product A is worth its cost or not in capitalism or in communism, I am asking what it MEANS.

>In a communist society there are no costs

So, if I spend all life saving medical resources to make sculptures, society will not suffer for it?

Do you realize how retarded the idea of "there are no costs" is? Do you realize how delusional you are?

It means that the productive enterprise increase the welfare of society as opposed to drive the society into Armageddon in a spiral of waste. It means that the use of resources added, and not subtracted, from society.

Can you answer my question now?

>and how does a corporation determine the USE-VALUE? the highest profitability
No. Profitability is all about VALUE, not use-value.

>most developed countries already have equality of opportunity
Eh, to some degree. It's hard to argue that a person born in a poor family has same opportunities to act upon his talents as a person born in a ridiculously rich family. Cronyism and corruption is also a problem that socialism has to somehow beat.

>Socialized healthcare and education sounds nice but it effectively entails to keep the educators and doctors as resources to be used by the state (or whatever you would call the centralized power structure).
Socialist state represents the people and there's nothing wrong with serving the people. As long as the government is actually democratic and not just claims to be.
In many ways these problems are born from inherent differences between more individualistic western world views and more collectivist eastern ones, where serving the larger whole is something to be expected.
It was unfortunate that Russia was the country that got to build socialism first and other countries followed (or were forced to follow) in our example.
Whatever society we try to build we get despotism in the end.
I'm sure if French got to have a go at socialism it would be a lot more humane and efficient than the Russian one.

How can someone write so much on a topic without actually knowing what he is discussing. For someone advocating for a future without markets/money, he seemed to be hung up on the notion that cost = money.
That said, the blame is also on the other guy. If he had re-worded his question differently in one of the 10 times he said it, maybe it would have gone somewhere.
"If personA needs thingA and personB needs thingB, and I only the means to produce either thingA or thingB, which one should I prioritize?"

>ITT: Commies can't answer a huezilians fucking question

You guys are a fucking joke, I'm glad my dad and uncles removed your kind in their old country

>It means that the use of resources added, and not subtracted, from society.
So product A is worth its cost if it is more useful than the raw resources used to make it or than product B, that could have been made with the same resources?

Ok that's fine for me. Obviously you seem to think that a society should be its production decisions on utility. That is the point of communism, as opposed to capitalism.

I fail to get your question though.

Op suck my balls.

>Communism is a theoretical utopia existing in a post scarcity society so scientifically advanced that needs of the people can be fulfilled for free because nanomachines and matter replicators
>BUT HOW MUCH DOES IT COST HUEHUEHUE
The biggest bane of all conversations about marxism are these disputes about imagined realities. Why not discuss something that actually exists instead?

but unless you have demand at a given price you dont know what a utility of a good is!- why prices are important. And there is no UTILITY for a single item, people value different things differently, hence some are willing to pay way more for a product than the others

...

>"If personA needs thingA and personB needs thingB, and I only the means to produce either thingA or thingB, which one should I prioritize?"
This is a rather stupid question. Who are these people? What are these products? Why do they need them?

You fail to get my question? Are you mentally fucking retarded?

You don't get the importance of knowing whether you are constructing or destroying the welfare of society?

And why haven't you answered the question yet?

So my wife can't decide what to do with her Bolognese if she doesn't have "demand at a given price" for spaghetti and lasagna?

> If he had re-worded his question differently in one of the 10 times he said it, maybe it would have gone somewhere.

It wouldn't.

You don't understand that what fundamentally is happening here, is someone getting brutally hit with cognitive dissonance. Explain more things and throw more words and the person will just use those extra words and terms to attempt to slide a direct discussion. I've been doing this for a long time.

no your stupid ass society cant determine how many are needed, how dearly its valued by people and the alternatives people choose. Its just a pipedream where either everything is rationed and you do what comrade tells you to or everybody hoards a bunch of shit they dont need because they didnt exchange anything for it.

>Edgy Teenager Faggot General
FTFY OP

You can't answer anything about the system you advocate for on a daily basis. How fucking pathetic.

They are 2 distinct people and 2 distinct products. Unfortunately, the means to produce the 2 products is the same, society must decide which one to produce because we live in a world with limited resources.
Since everyone and everything is equal in communisim/socialism, it does not matter what the things are or why do those 2 people need them...unless you want to make a system that assigns some sort of value to those things and people?

youtube.com/watch?v=crhnYgpUJBk

How do you feel about the free market?
Is it a necessary evil?
Does all industry have to be nationalized? Are small businesses ok, or are they an instrument of oppression too?
This is a very divisive question among marxists.
Pls don't pull the "revisionist" card, but I feel like in the present day world free market is the most efficient way for an economy to function and probably the only way for it to be healthy at all. Of course natural resources, education, healthcare and real estate have to be nationalized, or at least heavily controlled by the state, but the rest is fair game.

>be commie
>starve to death
>not my specific version of communism
>not my fault that my system did not work for me
>blame others
>rinse and repeat

kys

youtube.com/watch?v=oCSNa38MQrI
Thanks for the entire ideology btw. And this cool song.

Daily reminder that industrial democracy inside a free market and a representative republic operating according to a communist constitution is the way forward for communism, not utopian ideals about moneyless society.

>t. butthurt starving larpers

>something about Berlin and reactionary nazi pussy eager for bolshevik cock.
Also, East Germany best ally. Even we were surprised how dedicated you were to the whole thing. Stasi were an absolute miracle.

I agree m8. And I don't really see anyone in this thread calling for immediate elimination of all money. I've seen communists like that, but they are more of extremely idealistic and infantile larping variety. Doesn't stop them from calling everyone a revisionist though.

Stop pursuing fairy ideologies ffs

NEVER. And we're gonna drag you along with us after we come back, Бoлгapcкaя Hapoднaя Pecпyбликa.

>no your stupid ass society cant determine how many are needed, how dearly its valued by people and the alternatives people choose.
>Sales statistics don't exist.
>Customers surveys don't exist.

DDR was best that ever happened to germany

communism nearly made humans out of you

>They are 2 distinct people and 2 distinct products. Unfortunately, the means to produce the 2 products is the same, society must decide which one to produce because we live in a world with limited resources.
And thus society will decide. Where is the fucking problem?

Hello comrades.
How are you doing?
What's the political situation like in your country?
Is there class awareness?

Epic meme. GULAG inmates mostly did things like logging, mining, or construction.

...

>And thus society will decide. Where is the fucking problem?

The problem is the part that your cognitive dissonance didn't allow you to think too much about, how will society decide that?

How do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist system? How many times do you have to write bullshit that doesn't say anything for you to realize that you are following a delusional doctrine?

You didn't answer his question. Calm down.

Get on my helicopter

>Black Book of Communism
epik XDDD!!!

>>Customers surveys don't exist.
>Sales statistics don't exist.
if i dont pay for i'll want more than I can produce because people generally see themselves as underrpayed/overproducing and think they always deserve more. AND then we come back to my idea that you either have hoarding by people who under produce coupled with shortages OR you have rationing.
Maybe you could do what pic related says and introduce tokens to better keep track of things

How do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society? Can you answer for your fellow comrade?

But that's wrong, you fucking moron.

...

>How are you doing?
Ok. Didn't expect to see a lefty thread here on Sup Forums. I only came to this board to see some hype HAPPENING threads about us accidentally bombing the Turkish miltary base. I didn't find one and settled here.

>What's the political situation like in your country?
Like shit. Corruption and cronyism are rampant and the Communist party is an absolute fucking disgrace during the whole situation. They are the second most popular political party in this country and yet they choose to be Kremlin's lapdogs, afraid of ever openly criticizing Putin and his policies. It is also ruled by a senile geriatric fuck. He's so senile that his statements would suit a conservative, religious and nationalist party rather than a communist one. The disparity between active and ideologically motivated lower ranks of the communist party and it's moldy, impotent leaders discourages many people from following it.

>Is there class awareness?
That's the only thing we have going for us. People understand very well who the enemy is. The unfortunate part is that they are ruling us and most people, while disliking them, don't want anything to do with them or the political system in general. They prefer to live in stagnant stability for now, since shaking things up could cause another crisis like in the 90s. The times aren't hard enough for people to truly motivate people yet.

thats money man

Russian antifa ITT. Around me many neonazi. How to be?

If you cannot convince a Fascist, acquaint his head with the pavement.