I would say that most of my ideals are libertarian, I support free market economics and a high amount of social freedoms. And yet I get annoyed when looking at libertarian discussions, because so many of them support open borders. I've seen them say "wanting to restrict immigration is authoritarian".
I think it's just absurd. I try to explain that if you want a nation with libertarian ideals, you need most of the populace to believe in them. And letting in millions of people from places like the middle east or africa - people that do not respect things like the NAP or free markets or private property - you will have no chance of ever having a nation with libertarian ideals.
So I don't get it, why do libertarians pull wool over their eyes, to the truth that unlimited immigration will destroy their country?
Alexander Reyes
Most libertarians I've talked to are just liberals by heart who can't swallow the massive expansion of government that most Democrats today push.
They justify their remaining liberal views through a libertarian lens. Trump building a wall is 'big government' for example.
Gavin Evans
Because if you take away the welfare system, immigrants will have three choices. They can either starve, leave, or become productive citizens. Thus limited immigration becomes pointless under a minarchist government.
Anthony Green
Because the free market includes the FREE transit of capital AND people
You wouldn't be in this terrorism problem if you wouldn't have your Extremely interventionist politic fäm. And you wouldn't have this economical migrant problem if you wouldn't have this HUGE system of gib me dats
Stop bombing countries and then you will not have people who want to kill you. Remove welfare and people will stop going to your country as leeches.
Evan Cruz
>huge immigration >ruin state >no state >low skilled people >companies still running >??? >slavery Its a conspiracy you retard
Nolan Gutierrez
>minarchist government I like this burger
Logan White
There is another choice for them: they can attack and try to dismantle the government. This is probably what would happen now if all welfare was taken away
Jose Green
Yeah, I'm no ancap, but I believe in the idea of a "night watchman state", basically the government provides police, a military, a justice system, and maybe some infrastructure, and leaves the rest up to the people. I'd also like the military to be volunteer only, even in times of war, and for the only taxes to be a flat sales tax that cannot exceed 10%. Also, the government can only go into debt in times of war, and it is literally impossible to increase the governments power whatsoever, the Constitution in place would be unchangeable.
Lucas Lee
Libertarians want to dismantle the government though.
Adrian Jenkins
As long as we have welfare, we'll need strict immigration policy. You absolutely must not combine open borders with welfare under any circumstances. But, theoretically if we were able to abolish welfare in the future, by all means open the gates.
Ryder Smith
It's good to see there still are classic liberals in Sup Forums What you think about education though?
I still think Education has to be provided by the state [private schools are obviously allowed], just by the fact that a educated country is way more competitive and attractive to international investment.
Caleb Ward
>and for the only taxes to be a flat sales tax that cannot exceed 10%
Aiden Lopez
>You wouldn't be in this terrorism problem if you wouldn't have your Extremely interventionist politic fäm Oh right, so our resistance to terrorism is what creates terrorism? What an endearing viewpoint, really makes me think.
>Stop bombing countries and then you will not have people who want to kill you Muslim terrorism pre-dates US involvement in the middle east. Al Qaeda bombed a US embassy for preventing Indonesia from committing genocide in East Timor.
>Because the free market includes the FREE transit of capital AND people The only place in the entire world which subscribes to that policy is the EU. The domestic EU market is one of the most highly-regulated in the world.
People who talk about free trade being about free movement, are ONLY interested in free movement. They seek economic "justice", not prosperity.
Bentley Fisher
It depends I suppose. The question is, how good would the free market be at meeting those demands? How many kids will be left out despite private schools, non-profit charity schools, and homeschooling taking up the mantle of education? If it turns out to be a significant amount, then by all means, reluctantly have the government provide education.
What's wrong with that, user?
Hunter Martinez
>mfw libertarians don't realize that immigration violates the NAP
Elijah Williams
There's a large intersection between the people who become libertarians and those who become liberals/atheists/pan-sexual etc ...
It's fundamentally a fringe ideology and like all such ideologies it recruits from a common base of people. These people are idealists, young adults, and people who look towards creating their version of a perfect society as escapism to compensate for their own lack of accomplishments.
It has nothing to do with libertarianism itself, and being a libertarian doesn't defacto make you a cuck.
Julian Brooks
Reaction anti-immigration retards see people as, well, people instead of the sum of their potential labor.
Julian Butler
Why do national borders not come under property rights?
Jackson Flores
...
Justin Gray
>resistance Hmm... So hat you are doing in Syria and Yemen [support terrorist, bomb civilians, impose embargos] is "Resistance"? wow!
Terrorism has been always active, communists or anarchists doesn't matter , but you forget the U.S. literally helped Islamic terrorists to fight Soviets. Without the U.S' interventionist policy the Islamic terrorism wouldn't be a problem at this moment.
And this continue, so, this problem will never ends till the countries realize they protect themselves better at avoiding wars.
>The domestic EU market is one of the most highly-regulated in the world. Sadly yes, over regulation is always a cancer to free market.
>People who talk about free trade being about free movement, are ONLY interested in free movement. Sorry, not me.
Joshua Campbell
They think borders are authoritarian because the goverment currently controls them. These twats don't realized that you can still have private borders for your property.
Jaxson Lee
>So hat you are doing in Syria and Yemen [support terrorist, bomb civilians, impose embargos] is "Resistance"? Yes, it is. If you're trying to imply something about the imbalance of the power at each side's disposal, I'll remind you that the term "resistance" makes no distinction.
And "supporting terrorists" by bombing them is an odd thing to hear someone say.
>but you forget the U.S. literally helped Islamic terrorists to fight Soviets Afghanistan is not Yemen. Yes, the US fought proxy wars with communism, that has FUCK ALL to do with Syria and Yemen. Syria's destabilization is a DIRECT result of the so-called "Arab spring", something the US did not actively support or oppose with use of force.
Funnily enough, you decided not to mention Iran, which is much more closely representative of a back-firing US foreign policy than Syria. Presumably you didn't mention Iran because you don't care what Iran does. Another hallmark of someone whose "libertarianism", is characterised in large part by anti-Americanism.
>And this continue, so, this problem will never ends till the countries realize they protect themselves better at avoiding wars.
The choice isn't between war and peace, it's between fight, or surrender.
Henry Edwards
The problem with this theory is that mudslimes can still come to my country and explode/shoot up malls, given that they find a job.
3rd worlders will also vote for bigger government 10 out of 10 times (every demographic in America is mostly liberal besides Whites)
People are not just laborers, what's in their mind matters too
Jordan Parker
>by bombing them Cosmetic bombing, yes. ISIS was expanding under the Coalition operations, which you are included.
>Arab spring" >something the US did not actively support Yeah, no. You have to be shitting me in this one, you really think the U.S. didn't supported the Arab spring? They fucking started it. I mean, this is basic information in Sup Forums
>Iran Country which the U.S, following his interventionist policy, wants to start another war, yes.
>it's between fight, or surrender. You can fucking avoid any war, ask Switzerland how. It's called "Neutrality", politically and economically. It's the best option for every country.
Christian Price
>The problem with this theory is that mudslimes can still come to my country and explode/shoot up malls, given that they find a job Then have an extensive background check before they can enter the country, with surveillance as long as they remain a non-citizen. Or just ban immigrants from certain areas, religions, or ideologies. Borders and external security is one of the justified functions of government, and although I'm in favor of allowing immigration, it is neither tyrannical nor unjustified for any nation to close or restrict its borders.
>3rd worlders will also vote for bigger government 10 out of 10 times Yes, well let's make that impossible if we can. Ideally we would be able to make it impossible to change or "reinterpret" the Constitution once it has been put in place.
Justin Cooper
>Cosmetic bombing, yes Leaders, and families of the leaders. Missiles are expensive, the US doesn't waste them.
>ISIS was expanding under the Coalition operations, which you are included. Yeah, because pussy-footed members wouldn't be part of missions which bombed infrastructure. They allowed Turkey to buy ISIS oil for months, until the Russians put an end to it.
>you really think the U.S. didn't supported the Arab spring? Yes. >They fucking started it. >I mean, this is basic information in Sup Forums Considering the Arab Spring began by deposing a US-backed leader in Egypt, I'd say that the theory is full of shit.
>Country which the U.S, following his interventionist policy, wants to start another war, yes. Holy shit, it's as if I just said that.
>You can fucking avoid any war, ask Switzerland how. Switzerland is surrounded by wealthy, white, like-minded neighbours, the US has worldwide interests.
Nathaniel Ross
Because most libertarians are just liberal-hipsters that don't want to identify as liberal but are too much of a pussy to have strong values.
Jonathan Ortiz
wouldn't we let them come? it would only increase the potential amount of workers in your company and you don't have a minimum wage so you can give them how ever much money you want as long as it is a mutual agreement, and if you're worried about the nap we can just physically remove them from helicopters if they violate it.
