Redpill me on economics Sup Forums

Redpill me on economics Sup Forums.

Is capitalism a tool of the (((globalists))) used to control us?

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youtube.com/watch?v=B4wU9ZnAKAw
youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8
youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU
usdebtclock.org/
youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y
orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf
orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-II.pdf)
investopedia.com/articles/investing/022416/why-banks-dont-need-your-money-make-loans.asp
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

second

Yes. Even by just purchasing my neighbor's lawnmower for 30$, somewhere in the world and unnamed ((man))'s nose will grow outward by 3mm.

Not, that would be cronyism. Capitalism has not been seen at its full form since Reagan. The problem is cronyism making more and more regulations and putting more taxation on top of it. What countries need to be full on capitalist is a flat tax of say between 20-45%

Yes, and any promoter of free market capitalism is a kike puppet.

Capitalism is a buzzword and commie propaganda - there is non, maybe for black markets. We have state corporatism. And (((monopolists))) on legal tender in the private sector.

Also, Austrian economics, read it - bye

Damn...
Really makes me think

All you need is these documentaries:

youtube.com/watch?v=B4wU9ZnAKAw

youtube.com/watch?v=jqvKjsIxT_8

youtube.com/watch?v=DyV0OfU3-FU

What uneducated hole did you crawl out of to conflate economics and capitalism? Economics is a study, capitalism is a system.

Also, if anyone talks about the Austrians school, it's a surefire way to tell they know nothing about economics.

The fact that there are many economic philosophies makes me doubt if economics can be taken seriously.

>I-it isn't TRUE capitalism!

Cronyism is literally the natural outcome of capitalism, just like a totalitarian state is the outcome of communism. Once a few people get to the top, they use their money and influence to put gates in place to keep everyone else out.

A 20%-45% tax is way more than needed 10-15% federal and 5-10% local would be plenty. The free market will take care of the rest. There is no need for such a large government. What is the government needed for beyond defence?

This unironically made me think

Huh.

I hadn't really put that together before.

I'm with this guy

Economics is completly fake.

The currency every nation uses is called "fiat currncy" and can be printed as much as needed with no restrictions. Doing so will devalue the currency, but the vast masses are too busy and dumbed down to recognise this as a problem. In fact, many people believe that prices going up of food, houses etc. is demostrative of a booming / healthy economy, when in fact, it is a sign of your currencys value going down.

for eg, your house doesnt spawn a new floor, or new land around it, yet the price goes up typically. This is because the units of value you use to measure the value of your house is going down as more are printed it effectively dilutes the value of each single unit - £ or $ or what ever.

>Capitalism has not been seen at its full form since Reagan
it was close in 1850. none after.

you can't get "redpilled" on economics instantly

The main economist you need to read is Gottfried Feder. He drafted the National Socialist's original 25 points and was behind the core of national socialist economic policy.

FOr the most part he based his economic policies on the then current mainstream economic schools i America (started by Alexander Hamilton and the American School) and Germany (started by the German Historical school, namely Fredrich List) which relied on nationalism, protectionism, infrastructure, public utilities, wtc in order to build up their countries so they could stand up to the British Empire. Another key historical and political figure to focus on is Henry George, the man who more or less ended the gilded age in America by focusing on the key issues of classical economics and paved the way for the "progressive era", under Teddy Roosevelt, Taft, etc.

Modern writers and economists you needs to read today are

Michael Hudson
Randall Wray
Bill Black
Mike Whitney
James Petras

under no circumstances should you read Mises or any bullshit Austrian site and assume they know what they are talking about, 9 out of 10 times they are wrong.

>""""""""Free market""""""""""
>Le magic invisible hand
>the present financial system is totally natural you stupid fucking goy, we can't control it, oy vey sorry you can't afford to buy a home

Lotta good goys ITT

Capital is actual value. Like an actual physical asset.

The fiat currency that circulates in the economy is "fiat" and can be created at will.

We dont live in a capitalist society. Our moneytary system is a socialist one.

Your working ANY job doesn't add value to the economy - it adds debt.

All currency in circulation is DEBT.

If the national debt was paid off there would be no currency in circulation.

The more the economy grows the larger the national debt grows.

Economic Collapse is a mathematical certainty.

usdebtclock.org/

>itt nobody understands capitalism

>repeating what his liberal (((prof))) told him
good goy

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>Is capitalism a tool of the (((globalists))) used to control us?
You are so fucking retarded if you think this

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>repeating what (((Mises))), ((Rand))), (((Rotherbard))), and (((Friedman))) tell you verbatim

best goy

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Leftwing systems are inefficient and prone to corruption.

They always will devolve to oppressive regimes so a few remain rich while everyone starves.


But the problem with right wing systems like capitalism is that in general it has been co-opted by the rich so they want a system that only benefits them.

That is why you never see capitalist/right wingers talk about quality of life, fair work standards, worker rights, etc.

The ideal system is a pro-worker/average people capitalist market.

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This. Also another thing that you might want to consider, theoretically of course. There are four different types of economies.

1. A free market economy where there are no regulations and supply and demand fulfill the needs of the citizens of a state. Ironically, America is less of a free market economy than our country maple-bro. Best example is Switzerland.

2.A Command Economy is made of an authority that makes supply and demand based on what the authority considers is the need of the state. USSR and North Korea are prime examples of this.

3.. Traditional Economies, supply and demand is usually dictated by the traditions of the society or state. A good example of this is an Amish community.

4. Mixed Economies are a combination of all the different economies and it is usually said that every economy is a mixed economy.

As the quoted user said; there is a contrary outcome of both positives and negatives when operating in any style of economy.

taxation is theft

...

>he doesn't know that wages rise with consumer price inflation


this is why libertarians are so useless

The real problem is the increase of prices "independent" of consumer price inflation i.e. rising rates of real estate, healthcare, education, and other financial goods that get people in debt.

...

Yes, in microeconomics. In Macroeconomics it is the tools necessary for production. One of the three essential resources which includes labor and land.

public debt doesn't matter

only private debt is relevant

Government is based on force

feel free to start your own government without getting invaded and overthrown.

And the "ideal economy" is subjective, relative to its society.

Some races naturally gravitate towards certain cultural mindsets. And economies are more successful when they adapt to their people.

>he doesn't know that fiat is the most utterly severe cause of inflation

didn't read the rest of what you said. Yes precisely! The Collapse you are referring to is a depression.

yep, "property ownership" is a spook

Yes. The end result of capitalism is cronyism and oligarchy especially when you have a race of tribalistic bankers who control all of the money in the world.

>AHrVlQqd

Dankeschon

It's not capitalism anymore because banks get bailed out so they can behave pretty much how they want.

It's has much more in common with socialism/communism. It just differs in that the main beneficiaries are not the poor it's the rich and speculators.

The left bailed them out. Not that the mainstream right wouldn't have. But it just adds more insult to injury coming from the deranged morons that is the left.

This

fiat money results in consumer price inflation which means wages rise with prices

the real problem is when a good rises faster than Consumer price Inflation (CPI). This results in mass private debt, which unlike public debt, is bad for the economy.


In america the biggest causes of private debt are real estat, education, healthcare.

This is largely caused by financial firms giving cheap credit to consumers creating massive private debt bubbles (like the 2008 sub prime scandal, which was mainly wall street jews lending out cheap loans to Mexicans and then omitting mass financial fraud and repackaging those loans as triple AAA rated debt on the market)

This has nothing to do with fiat currency and everything to do with lack of regulation of banks and an obsession with allowing giant debt bubbles.

The solution is tight credit for private lending and mass government spending in public infrastructure, military, utilities, education, projects, etc to spur the economy.

Surely the more public debt the greater the rate of devaluation of the currency we all use. The public finances and the private individuals use THE SAME currency.

and taxation IS theft. Any interaction with the state has to be VOLUNTARY otherwise you gonna get a very disgruntled populace.... providing they are thinking and aware of right from wrong

You can trade debt.

>"our jewish fantasy coin currency has intrinsic value r-right prof. zuckerstein?"

Fractional-reserve banking is a mathematical meme lad. We are never paying back nominal debt back. Are you that ignorant?

>devaluation of the currency we all use
Which is irrelevant beyond giving you an advantage as a net exporter of goods which means more domestic jobs

>The public finances and the private individuals use THE SAME currency

assuming they are in the same country they legally have to.
>taxation IS theft

All government is force

Don't like it? Try to build your own country with your AR-15 then (as if you could get one legally in the UK)

>Any interaction with the state has to be VOLUNTARY

If interaction with a state is voluntary then the state ceases to exist. It might as well be a book club.

>a very disgruntled populace

Whoever wants to rebel can try

They know what the problem is. The "regulation" of which you speak would cause immeduate economic collapse, which is a mathematical certainty anyway.

Free markets (REAL free markets) need no regulation and will regulate them selves if currency is backed by value, or eveyonr is correctly educated to recognise money creation as devaluing the currency and to have their pay increased in line with that devaluation to stay afloat as it were

that is what the commies wants you to believe, all part from a jews plan towards the awakening of the URSS

>Free markets (REAL free markets) need no regulation and will regulate them selves if [pointless garbage after this point]

If you take an entry level course in micro or macro, you'll be introduced to many shortcomings of a free market society. You would spend a great amount of time in such a course examining market failures and their remedies.

Capitalism is an economic stepping stone toward post-scarcity tech.
If left without any impetus to improve itself and make way for post-scarcity tech, capitalism will simply consume and expand repeatedly, too shortsighted to plan ahead and ultimately dashing itself upon the rocks once everything's been consumed.

>200 years later
>s..surely it w-will dash itself upon the rocks any day now

>jewish fantasy coin currency

You realize that your libertarian gold fetishism is a common jewish stereotype right?


>Fractional-reserve banking is a mathematical meme

Fractional reserve banking doesn't exist

all money is created out of nothing. If the country doesn't control the currency then the banks control the currency. And when the banks control the currency they create endless bubbles that wipe out the savings of their depositors.

This happened again and again in America under the "wildcat" banks in the 19th century.

Do you like having your savings wiped out every 3 years? Then adopt wildcat banking.,

>immeduate economic collapse,

regulation would fix our economy by purging the parasitic jewish financial elements and replacing them with productive (STEM) enterprise.

The west had a production based economy until Jimmy Carter and Ronald Reagan began deregulating wall street in the 70s and 80s.

After that the US abandoned protectionism (which had existed since the 1790s under Hamilton) and began exporting jobs overseas while importing millions of illegal Mexicans to work for low wages (Reagan's 1984 amnesty)

>It's not true capitalism because it doesn't produce the results I want!
Lol you faggot
Same shit the commies come out with

I wouldnt trust those couses at all, friend.

Who writes the curriculum?

Of course they are going to play down the free market thing.

In reality free markets work and regulated or manipulated market fail. 100%. Guaranteed. Every time.

Poor service or product in a free market simply wont survive and will be forced to improve by natural means

>Fractional
yeah thats the nominal meme here faggot dont sidetrack

you have to deprive state monopoly on legal tender to end that jew bubble

Holy fuck you are retarded, bosche. Capitalism is making money off a cache of money, I do it every day. The fact that I unfortunately have to pay taxes does not change this. You really are a dumb fucking teenage kraut.

So basically the United States?

>deprive state monopoly on legal tender

That only creates numerous jew bubbles that can never be ended.

Banks create money from nothing. Without a central bank you simply have numerous banks creating their own bubbles endlessly, wiping out the savings of their customers every few years.

This has already been put into practice before in the US, and it doesn't work.

nope that would be called interest you massive burger.

capitalism is contract individualism between two or more consensual parties

This system of "making money off a cache of money" is unsustainable and BOUND to fail.

Its a mathematical certainty.

Read Austrian economics like the man said.

You don't need to trust the courses, you need to critically look at the information. My mentioning courses at all instead of self research is because you clearly can't do the latter, which is much harder than the former. As I said though, there's tons of market failures which all occur in a free market.

>Poor service or product in a free market simply wont survive and will be forced to improve by natural means

Your view is too narrow. Try thinking of scenarios which wouldn't be able to adjust in timely fashion or at all.

The only useful way to think about economics is how do you produce more from what you have.

I'll outline an easy, tangible, concrete path towards 20%+ GDP growth, well beyond anything that any school of thought in the public domain offers you. Importantly, it won't depend upon abstractions or theories (lower/higher taxes), only actionable (and falsifiable!) plan.

Is it possible to build a space elevator today?

Yes:

youtube.com/watch?v=0qezLhypA0Y

The key idea is the Orbital Ring version of the space elevator, not the geosynchronous tether concept you are familiar with.

See, for example, Paul Birch's writings:

orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-I.pdf

The orbital ring only requires tethers about 300 kilometers long which is technically feasible with common material like steel, but ridiculously straightforward with better and already available material like kevlar.

There are some important questions. First, how much would it cost to do something like this?

We need to send about 160 million kilograms of material into space (See Birch's boot strap estimates in part 2: orionsarm.com/fm_store/OrbitalRings-II.pdf)

We have rockets available at $2000/kg costs to LEO today in "mass production" mode, which is only about 10-20 launches per year. Compared with the couple thousand launches necessary for a space elevator, $2000 is an unreasonably high upper bound for launch costs.

We also need to include the cost of materials. A space elevator is about 98% steel and aluminum, 1% kevlar, and 1% other such as superconducting magnets. Most of the mass (98%) cost around $1/kg, with an average cost per kilogram of no more than about $10 per kilogram.

Summing the above up, we get about $430 billion in launch costs plus another $1-2 billion in material costs.

In other words, we can have a space elevator for less than $450 billion - significantly less than one year worth of DoD spending, one bank bailout, many times less than a variety of pointless wars, etc. This is well within our reach financially in other words.

Fractonal Reserve banking exists.

But if you say it doesnt - then theres no problem, right?

Problem solved.

That was easy

What do we get in return for this $450 billion investment?

Virtually unlimited value. For example, with a space elevator we can reliably launch our nuclear waste into the sun. We've spent $100 billion building a waste repository in Nevada, but it was ultimately decided not to even use it. Now it costs only a dollar or two per kilogram to get rid of all of the nuclear waste in the world.

Second, we have immediate access to viable asteroid mining industry. Because the cost of delivering payloads to LEO drops to about $1/kilogram, we can not retrieve asteroids with trillions of dollars worth of minerals for mere tens millions of dollars in addition to having an easy viable way of returning those resources back to the surface.

We acquire the ability to deploy profitable solar power in orbit above cloud cover and with the ability to return said power back to the surface with near zero loss by running power transmission cables down the elevator.

Just how profitable?

With increased luminosity in space, enhanced exposure time, and the ability to deliver base loads, solar panels pay for themselves in only 1-2 years while having a 20 year life time.

In other words, if you put $5 trillion of solar panels into space, you get your $5 trillion back by the end of year two and a $5 trillion income stream each year thereafter.

In other words, the US could cut everyone's taxes, both personal and business, income, capital, death, or otherwise, all to 0%, not even cut any benefits or current spending, and pay off the national debt within a decade.

a contract cannot exist unless there is a state mechanism (force) to ensure there is a legal system to back up a contract

Without an enforcement mechanism a contract is merely words scrawled on a piece of paper, and is meaningless (much like money)

It should already be obvious that the entirety of the political debate spectrum is cointelpro.

Are taxes too high or too low? Irrelevant, we don't actually need taxes.

Is social spending bankrupting us? Irrelevant, we can retire the national debt without cutting spending all while having no tax whatsoever.

What does this have to do with taking the red pill?

We've had the technological ability to undertake such a project for decades.

That means all the squabbling you have heard your entire life, money, debt, spending, taxes, scarcity, whatever, is all bullshit. Not only is it bullshit, anyone with rudimentary knowledge of the world has known that it is all bullshit for all of this time.

In other words, once you come to understand the such a project is and has been technically feasible for decades, you have to reevaluate many things.

Why is there nothing of this in the conspiracy media? They are not really trying to expose or solve any problems. One hundred percent of it is cointelpro. From the Young Turks to Infowars or whatever, they are all completely full of shit because solutions to our problems not only exist, are easy to carry out, but this has been the case for a very long time.

Similarly, you now know that 20%+ annual GDP growth is possible. If Trump gives you 3-4% instead of Obama's 2%, he is simply working with the establishment to try to placate and subvert a rising tide. If we see the easily achievable 20%+ growth rates, it is at least possible that he isn't a subversive. Anything less and you know he is a fraud.

>have central banking system right now
>systems gonna fail -- again
hmmmmmmm really made me cringe lad

In a free market you'd be protected by actual assets.

There's no such thing as a failure because your assets are owned by yourself and you have them physically to hand.

Fractional reserve banking doesn't exist because there are no "fractions" or "reserves"

banks don't lend out deposits, they craete money (debt) out of nothing.

investopedia.com/articles/investing/022416/why-banks-dont-need-your-money-make-loans.asp

The system isn't "failing"

It is working perfectly for the jewish billionaires and bankers that Germans seem to love giving power.

The question is whether there is any political will to amend central banking so it works for the people again. The more libertarian fantasies about abolishing the state and the central bank there are the less possible real change becomes.

>we're not commies because we hate jews
End yourself you dumb nazi

Ok so you don't know the widely used definition of market failure, that's ok. I should've known better. Consider scenarios in which the free market would inefficiently allocate resources and result in a negative outcome in such a way that the issue wouldn't be market-adjustable in decent time, or at all.

>only literal physical objects should be used to trade
>none of those damn new fangled credit cards are allowed

kek. Good luck bartering your house plant for food at the supermarket

Libertarians are just communists by other means.

You would use the free market to keep your self protected at all times, going liquid when neccessary.

Theres no need to allow for time.

You wouldnt keep your wealth liquid

im not talking about a house plant

or supermarkets for that matter

i'd only want (((them))) to delete taxes and state patents. id welcome monarchy with a 10% tax cap too.

>Muh free market
Lmao, how's being 16

For the central banking system to work currencies need to be pegged to something physical to regulate capital flows between nations. Without that you inevitably end up in a race to the bottom with infinite debt/liquidity systems based on trying to obtain a comparative advantage in a free trade system. This benefits speculation and those in the position to profit from inflation rather than real wealth creators until the system collapses

financially secure, apparently

>going liquid
>in your ancap utopia where cash is banned

lol

1. you could never have a system where cash is banned, assuming banks all made their own money they would issue their own debt, so at any moment the bankscould fail and you would lose your life savings

Bravo ancapistan

2. If you DID ban cash you could never use bank debt/credit (i.e. currency) to purchase anything. You would be forced to use physical assets to barter. So again have fun pawning off your cat to try and afford this month's rent.


because your dumb gold fetishist (ancap) system can't account for even the most mundane of economic transactions

pegging currencies to commodities is what makes them fail.

The government needs to have full reign to issue debt whenever it wants to

Did I mention banning cash, anywhere?

Or is your autism playing up?

Ok I don't know how to break it down for you in a further digestible manner so I'm going to spoon feed you.

>Externalities
Non-market participant being affected by activities of other parties in the market.
ex./ Noise Pollution, endangering ecosystems, positive externalities where someone benefits without engaging in the market, the widely known Coase Theorem

>Information asymmetry
Market participants cannot come to an ideal outcome because one party has more or less information than their counterpart and engages in an inefficient manner
ex./ Organ trade, insurance, used goods

>Time varied preferences
Non-ideal market engagement based on preferences varying with time and participants not accounting for or being blind to future preferences
ex./ Again, organ trade, tobacco use, taking less money now than more in the future in scenarios where there's no more necessity to having it now than later

>The big M word, Monopoly and it's cousin, Monopsony
Monopolies forming because there's no regulation to prevent them. Barriers to entry can be placed to prevent proper competition.
ex./ pick your favorite monopoly for monopoly, university hiring in the labor market for monopsony example

Cash can't exist without a banking system that issues debt (money)

it seems you just want a barter economy where debt can never be issued. Good luck ever getting the money (or in this case bricks of solid gold) to start up a business.

Jews

This is a advert for why mainstream education is bad.

This massive tangent is unneccessary.

You need to recognise the basics and fundementals.

You can go off onto tangents like this ad infinitum and still be paying off your student loan for you useless college qualification

>dude fuck facts and history and shieet I have muh Austrian Mises.org ideology

Money has existed for thousands of years before banking systems existed.

Ask yourself -- -- Why does the aristocracy value gold?

They require it for sustenance.

I have no debt because I had a scholarship. I studied economics and math and am currently employed. I'd love to know what fundamentals you learned which throw out basic outcomes that you can observe for yourself. These don't just spring up in abstract models, I literally listed a bunch of examples. I tried guiding you towards reaching this conclusion in prior posts, but you keep droning on about tangible assets, like that will somehow resolve issues that have been debated for god knows how long now.

>Cronyism is literally the natural outcome of capitalism

Nice try. Cronyism/Corporatism physically cannot exist without the state. When you have a monopoly on force, any regulation you make will tend to favor one enterprise vs. another.

Communism RELIES on force, so greater control -> totalitarianism is an obvious outcome.

History shows monetary systems thrive under free markets and fail under regulation and manipulation.

Just got to teach the fundementals to the masses, and avoid the endless polava you are trying to describe, and everone will hve some actual wealth.

and not debt-currency

100%. Guaranteed. Every time

thats interesting. Care to elaborate?

...

You have no "issues" if you hold tangible assets.

Your "education" has taught you wrong my friend.

All those guys on wall st. are "educated" too, you know

>not knowing it's actually the privately owned central banks that run everything

>History shows monetary systems thrive under free markets and fail under regulation

Stop painting in broad strokes. Market systems thrive (for the most part) under free markets and fail under (over) regulation. There's unresolvable or difficult to resolve in a decent amount of time issues that pop up in the free market that are easily made more efficient with minor regulation.