Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need.
>Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need."
>To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
My 18th century ancestor once was a crew member on a pirate ship.
He killed hundreds of Spanish sailors.
David Brooks
Communism is a death cult
Nolan Perry
He didn't kill enough.
Evan Miller
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Jaxson Sanders
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Samuel Moore
It certainly is a cult at least. They're always ranting on about how stuff isn't "real communism", but then if you ask them to tell you what capitalism or fascism is they'll give you some propaganda version that Marx came up with. You can't really talk to commies, you just gotta kill them. It's only self defense, after all.
Wyatt Carter
How is this relevant to the discussion?
Jackson Brooks
PURGE THE HERETIC.
LET NOT ONE COMMIE SURVIVE.
Isaac Bailey
Only logical way of making a wealthier society: >allocate resources better or >work harder
How commies plan on doing it: >abolish the only method of properly allocating resources because it doesn't allow for a gibsmedat society and >work less D E L U S I O N A L
Cooper Ward
That makes no sense.
Hi comrade nice to see you again
Brandon Green
Trotskyism is Marxism-Leninism?
Zachary Bennett
>That makes no sense. You subscribe to a particular viewpoint, refusing to see things in any way other than through that viewpoint, and killing anyone who disagrees with your way of thinking, then your system leads to you and your followers all dying of starvation.
Sounds like a death cult to me senpai.
Wyatt King
>inb4 NUT REEL CUMUNISM!
Jack Flores
The difference is that he rejected the socialism in one country and also it's critical of the bureaucracy that developed under Stalin.
Anything with communism in the name is real communism.
You may now bend the knee to the superior ideology as us communists take credit for China's success.
Did you know that in the '70s North Korea was the second most industrialised country in Asia, only behind Japan?
Makes you think...
Evan Rivera
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Gabriel White
>Did you know that in the '70s North Korea was the second most industrialised country in Asia, only behind Japan? Wow, so communism is really good at turning industrialized nations into 3rd world hellholes then. Who would've guessed?
Nathaniel Jones
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Easton Gomez
I dunno ask the Union of "From Feudalism to Superpower In Twenty Years" Soviet Socialist Republics or the People's Republic of "Fastest Industrialisation in History and Also Singlehandedly Halved the Global Poverty Rate" China.
Logan Rodriguez
>Cuba was once richer than Japan Let that sink in.
Landon Smith
>cuba still has a higher quality of life compared to most of its hypercapitalist neighbours despite being cut off from global trade and being a shitty island with no resources Makes you think...
Mason Bailey
So feudalism is a crappy system? Who would've guessed it!
Logan Garcia
The USSR out-competed the vast, vast majority of capitalist states as well, cuck.
Jeremiah Rogers
Its the same fucking cunt every day, at least use a fucking proxy so it doesnt look like its only one guy doing it ya faggot
Caleb Morgan
Well the word capitalism wasn't really used before Marx though, it was pretty much popularised because of Marx, so his definition is pretty much one of the original definitions of the capitalism. There is nothing obscure in it, it's basically just a private ownership of the means of production.
Brandon Rodriguez
You're a massive faggot. Your autism is deafening. Day in day out you start this same thread. Why do you bother? Get a fucking job you dirty wop neet.
Easton Collins
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA Not even people in Brazil look at Cuba as if it was a nicer place to live.
>Cuban doctors fleeing to fucking Brazil Really makes me think
>goes from better than Japan to one of the worst places in the west Delusional commies actually defend this
Carter Myers
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Isaiah Johnson
Of course! In fact, the communists did so well, that they decided they were having too much success, and made it more fair by having all but 5 nations turn to capitalism. Heck, even then they realized the massive advantage they had, so 4 out of 5 of the communist nations adopted some capitalism, to even the playing field. How noble of them!
Tyler Nelson
You can look up the figures yourself. Cuba has the second highest access to clean, running water in the world. Pretty remarkable when the only thing flowing like water in your country are the rivers of blood, monkey.
I'm not saying Cuba is a great place to live but it's far, far from the worst. And a lot of the countries worse than it have been practicing the "superior" ideology for decades.
Jayden Roberts
And? There have been plenty of capitalist experiments that lasted for a much shorter time than the USSR. What the USSR achieved when it was around is unrivalled by plenty of capitalist countries today. France has NEVER achieved what the USSR achieved in its fucking millennia plus of continuous government.
Nothing lasts forever. Especially not in a politically unstable shithole like Russia.
Jaxon Davis
>Nothing lasts forever Or, in the case of communism, nothing lasts a century. But hey, you know what they say about burning the candle at both ends. Better a few decades of glory and hundreds of millions of deaths, than a lifetime of being a wageslave, am I right?
Logan Williams
>you can look up yourself the Cuban government claims to have better hospitals than São Paulo! >north korea claims to have 100% literacy! >the data that comes from a communist dictatorship that doesn't allow private entities to gather data proves that communism is great >Cuba litearlly second best clean water on planet earth >gets cholera outbreak My fucking sides.
Matthew Parker
>It's a "high ranking Cuban politician flies to brazil to get treated in the most expensive private hospital" episode
Jayden Wood
>when you come into a thread solely to spout memes The USSR was a global superpower, one of only three or /maybe/ four in all of history. And there have been a lot fewer communist countries than capitalist ones.
Russia was at its most powerful, most relevant, more anything it has ever been, under the USSR. Communism has proven to be the single most effective ideology for mobilising Eastern Europe - far more successful than capitalism has ever been.
Cry more.
Like I said, you can look it up yourself. They aren't Cuban government claims, they're independently verified by various research organisations like the WHO.
Carson Hill
You delusional autistic fuck. Private press and private information is illegal in Cuba.
>They aren't Cuban government claims, they're independently verified by various research organisations like the WHO.
The WHO doesn't gather data and just takes whatever the government claims, you idiot. That's why the WHO says North Korea has 100% literacy.
John Wood
>The USSR was a global superpower, one of only three or /maybe/ four in all of history It was a moderately powerful nation, but at no point did it even come close to the power of the United States. If the Soviet Union is what we're calling a "super"-power these days, then the USA was an ultra super power or something. Heck, even at its most powerful, the USSR had only 1/4 the GDP of the United States.
Joseph Kelly
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Caleb Thompson
I agree but I also very much enjoy that image, have a cool dragon.
David Gray
>Every time
Juan Morgan
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Zachary White
Daily reminder
Samuel Smith
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Brody Flores
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Cameron Torres
Are you really a Communist? Can you give me some cash?
>Private press and private information is illegal in Cuba. But this is demonstrably wrong, as evinced by all the time the private press has gone to Cuba. If you're arguing that it's literally impossible to get accurate information about quality of life in Cuba you're wrong.
I was wrong though too, it's second highest in Latin America not second highest in the world. Which is kinda my point. Cuba is a second-rate shithole, but ALL of Latin America is a second-rate shithole. Cuba's just not the worst shithole.
>It was a moderately powerful nation, but at no point did it even come close to the power of the United States Wrong.
Go look up Operation Unthinkable. The USSR eclipsed the USA in the 1940s and it took the USA several decades of jockeying to build a reliable edge.
People like you, who know nothing about the Cold War and weren't even alive during it, read the memes on the internet today and retroactively apply them all the way back to the 1950s. In fact people in the 1950s were shitting themselves over the USSR. It was the single greatest threat to US foreign policy and an extremely credible one, hence the necessity of the Cold War in the first place.
It's easy to stand on an enemy that's already dead and proclaim how easy the fight you never fought was.
David Scott
This
Jacob Richardson
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Jonathan Thompson
SAGE Wrong board, fag
Jack Campbell
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Kayden Rodriguez
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Zachary Harris
Greetings comrade! come join us on the glorious motherland discord! discord.gg/swp3YFF
Down with capitalist pigs!
Ethan Jones
>turkey was never communist >lower than east germany and poland What are you trying to prove?
Elijah Richardson
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Oliver Martinez
Which is why it still exists.
Oh wait.
Oliver Foster
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Nicholas Jones
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Bentley Hughes
Can you give me some cash? I want to play the new World of Warcraft expansion. Prove that you're a communist.
Josiah Carter
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Noah Martin
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Joshua James
There are a lot of capitalist states that don't exist anymore too, buddy.
Christian Turner
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Landon King
>The USSR eclipsed the USA in the 1940s >USSR didn't have nukes in the 1940's >USSR relied on USA lend-lease to fight WW2 >USSR didn't have to fight Japan thanks to USA Honestly senpai, we should've gone after the Soviets right after we beat Germany. We could've just nuked them into oblivion, especially since they were running out of soldiers to throwing into the meatgrinder around that time.
Josiah Murphy
The failure rate is nowhere near close. You're delusional if you genuinely believe otherwise.
Julian Robinson
>muh nukes Guess how many nukes the US had at the start of the 1950s? Just under 300, and only 30 planes that were capable of delivering them.
You didn't really have nukes either - not in anywhere near the numbers to win the war. You can't bomb Moscow from Berlin with no fighter escort, and even if you could what would it accomplish? Russian industry was dispersed behind the Urals by '45.
As late as 1957 the American planning staff agreed that there was no way to hold Western Europe against the Russians. You can TRY and argue otherwise but the actual generals who were there at the time think you're wrong, and I think they're probably right.
>muh lend-lease Russians used American tanks for training and gunnery practice. Hate to break your heart.
What Russia REALLY needed were trucks, and by 1945 their army was fully motorised or just about. They were well on the way to self-sufficiency.
>USSR didn't have to fight Japan Japan suffered 600,000 casualties in Manchuria when the USSR entered the Pacific theatre.
You're wrong on all counts.
Jackson Cruz
>The failure rate is nowhere near close. Neither is the success rate. Capitalism has one, maybe two successful countries (the USA and Britain) on par with the USSR. Communism has the USSR and maybe, eventually, possibly China. Proportionally speaking, communism is more successful.
Blake Rodriguez
>Communism has the USSR No it doesn't.
Nicholas Moore
>capitalism has one, maybe two successful countries D E L U S I O N A L
Justin Phillips
Are you saying its...
NOT REAL COMMUNISM?
Brayden Turner
Hello comrade.
Hunter Perez
Successful as in on-par with the USSR.
Samuel Green
China is communist, with a strong prosperous economy.
Noah Scott
The USSR was never communist, and no actual communist ever claimed it was. Read Bordiga.
Kevin Sanders
Hi
Blake Howard
>China is communist Come ooon…
Cameron Cooper
>Just under 300, and only 30 planes that were capable of delivering them. >300 cities being nuked wouldn't have crippled the Soviet Union Whatever you say senpai.
>You can't bomb Moscow from Berlin with no fighter escort >Implying we wouldn't have achieved air superiority
>What Russia REALLY needed were trucks >United States sent 400,000 trucks to the Soviet Union
We also sent 1.75 million tons of food, which isn't really helping the starving commie meme.
>Japan suffered 600,000 casualties in Manchuria when the USSR entered the Pacific theatre >Enter the war after Japan has been beaten to near death by the USA >Kill some Japanese and claim Soviet Superiority If you say so, user.
Tyler Green
Cool.
Then communism has never been tried and thus the endless "MUH COMMUNIST DEATH TOLLS" shitposting can stop.
Nicholas Turner
Doesn't work, China became capitalist in 1971 after their economic reform.
Asher Ramirez
>Then communism has never been tried A mode of production isn't "tried", be it communism, capitalism, feudalism or whatever. It doesn't make sense.
Charles Price
Answer me this comiefags, in a communist society what is the insentive to work to your full ability other than you getting more for your work? If there isn't any insentive then wouldn't everyone just contribute the bare minimum to society regardless of their capability? What kind of society would that kind of laziness produce with everyone doing the absolute bare minimum?
Luke Cox
>Then communism has never been tried Communism has never existed, but there have been attempts to get to communism.
Noah Cox
It sill is ruled by a communist party. Stop trying to meme your failed system.
Brayden Campbell
Exactly.
Landon Roberts
>the single most effective ideology for mobilising Eastern Europe Christianity, actually.
Lucas Wilson
A communist society would free individuals from long working hours by first automating production to an extent that the average length of the working day is reduced and second by eliminating the exploitation inherent in the division between workers and owners. A communist system would thus free individuals from alienation in the sense of having one's life structured around survival (making a wage or salary in a capitalist system), which Marx referred to as a transition from the "realm of necessity" to the "realm of freedom." As a result, a communist society is envisioned as being composed of an intellectually-inclined population with both the time and resources to pursue its creative hobbies and genuine interests, and to contribute to creative social wealth in this manner. Karl Marx considered "true richness" to be the amount of time one has at his or her disposal to pursue one's creative passions. Marx's notion of communism is in this way radically individualistic.
Christopher Smith
>300 cities being nuked You mean 30. If you're lucky. And then 15 the next week as you start losing bombers. And then fewer as your bombers drop like flies.
And they're all Western European cities (aka irrelevant to the USSR) because you can't get a fighter escort over Russia.
Nukes would have been strategically irrelevant, and the details of Operation Unthinkable show this.
>air superiority Over fucking MOSCOW? From which fucking airfield will you be launching your fighters you fucking moron? They don't have bottomless fuel tanks.
Completely leaving aside the fact that it would be a hell of a fight, you can't even get to the fight in the first place.
>>Enter the war after Japan has been beaten to near death by the USA You mean "fight an army of 700,000 Japanese renowned for their ruthlessness, highly experienced and well-equipped, over a theatre the size of the entirety of Europe, thousands of miles from Moscow, and take them all prisoner or killed in less than a month."
I'm through debating this. You're a fucking armchair general who thinks he knows better than the actual generals who analysed the feasibility of war with the USSR full time for 1945 to 1957.
You're fucking wrong. You are on every conceivable level as wrong as it is possible to be and there are declassified military documents from 1945 through to 1957 explicitly detailing every facet of your wrongness. Plans from YOUR OWN ARMY say you didn't have a chance in hell of holding Europe.
lel that's retarded. Russia was getting blown the fuck out consistently from the date it formed until 1941.
Dylan Lewis
The only thing Leftist thing I'm interested in is how labor works and looks. In a socialist factory you can haggle and come to an agreement on how much you work and how much you get paid for it right. It's like the principles of a tanda en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tanda_(association) but applied to work.
Dylan Collins
You know why they became capitalist? Because capitalism works, as opposed to communism.
Brandon Cook
I will tell a secret: the more you work, the more you produce, no matter the mode of production.
Here is your incentive.
Christian Sullivan
Uh, no, you idiot. It was precisely when communists ideologues claimed to be taking a step towards communism that millions died.
Eli Cox
Fuck Commies!
Jordan Green
Basically it's envisioned as an industrial democracy. Workers vote on pay scales and the level of managerial prerogative. In one organisation maybe the CEO makes 40 times as much as the workers and appoints all managers. In another maybe the CEO makes the exact same and all managers are elected. The specific organisational structure doesn't matter - those that are competitive in the economy will succeed and those that aren't will disappear.
The point is that workers consent to the level of managerial prerogative that managers exercise.
Trading shares would also be illegal. Pay would be determined by council and vote, but dividends would be paid equally to all employees.
That doesn't sound like communism so much as what will ultimately follow the process of automation, you can't force it to come early and trying to will ultimately delay it.
Isaiah Mitchell
The same incentive there is in capitalist society.
All the reasons to work hard in capitalist society still exist in communist society.
>but i don't get paid any more Yeah, and you don't get paid any more in capitalist society either. I am a lazy dumbass slacker at my current job and I get the exact same hourly rate as all my colleagues.
>but you won't get promotions if you slack off Yeah, and you won't get promotions if you slack off in commie society too.
