Why do BRs here are so against Lula and want him arrested? I mean literally, I was reading about him at wikipedia and looking at some graphs, and his government was unironically the best thing that came in ages in Brazil since Pedro II.
>Grew an average 5% in 8 years
>Took 11 million people out of misery
>Advanced from the 12th economy of the world to the 6th in 2008
>International relations were so well regarded by every country that his minister of foreign affairs was elected the best diplomat in the world
>Literally pushed for the unification of South America and the pursue of an independent international sovereignty free from external powers
>Developed the Brazilian Space Program and Airspace Program to the point of sending a man to space
>Made Petrobras one of the most high valued companies in the world
>Literally ditched Multinationals in the name of national industries financed by public money
If anything you guys should thank him for the time he was in power my friend. I mean even if corruption was a thing, that is nothing compared to the dimension of his actions
American questioning about Brazil
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The argument is that he was just reaping what the previous president planted, I don't know if it's true or not, but seeing how Dilma fucked the country up I'm inclined to believe it.
well even in 2008 where here everyone was panicking, you guys did well and grew 7,5% next year
Either way I don't like his policies.
He prefered to trade with Latin America (even if the deal we took was worse).
He is a confirmed communist, very anti freedom of market/trade.
He is pro desarmament of the population.
All of these are a deal breaker for me.
inb4 a swarm of mortadela eaters defenfing their god
>>Took 11 million people out of misery
Oh yeah, when misery was $5 a day and now you call it $1, everyone is out of misery.
Whatever, everyone is worse because keynesian economic crisis.
why tho? Just because you cant get gunz and he appeals to the left that means you will neglect a leader that actually developed your country?
basically this
FHC fixed the country and Lula just rode off from his wave, if Lula was competent Brazil would've grown a lot more, but then he also stole a lot of money, corrupt 9 fingers nigger
>>Made Petrobras one of the most high valued companies in the world
before he and his party broke it completely to line up their own pockets?
It's not like developing this country is a challenge user, Brazil is rich in almost every single natural resource.
He's a communist. Is that not reason enough to want him arrested?
then why you guys spent like decades growing nothing?
>rode the wave for 8 years, even when passing through the biggest world crisis since 1929
he is a world class surfer then
because corrupt socialist niggers
Quit saying " LITERALLY " all the motherficking goddamn time!!!!
I see this shit from 20-something women all the fucking time!! Just stop already
>3 literally in a 1000 word text
are you autistic?
who are you replying to
wtf i hate brazil now
go back to fagchan you flaming shitsipper
Also, it's that you're using the word in a way that is completely unnecessary, yet you obviously believe it makes you seem smarter. It's your attempt to put artificial weight to your points, but it just makes you look like a complete and utter dumbfuck.
kys, you commie shit
holy crap that is some intense autism my friend
He just delayed the crisis, we are only now living our 1929 crisis.
it is more like due to Lava-Jato then the world economy 2bh
Meh, autistic or not, I've got an active sex life and social life on top of being a grad student.
I'll take it, my banana loving friend.
PS, 7-1
PPS I'm actually intrigued on the state of affairs in Brazil, political and social. So anyone willing to give a good description, please do.
it is mostly like the rest of the world. Globalists vs Nationalists. PT and Lula are the nationalist party that actually want to industrialize the country and reduce inequality gap and the PSDB, PMDB and Temer are actually globalists that want huge unemployment and to reduce worker's legislation, pensions and government investment, give our infrastructure, industries and commodities to globalist multinationals, and make our country forever subservient to other countries interests
What's all that good for if his term was plagued by nepotism and corruption? So much money was stolen, such an astonishing amount that could single-handedly solve all social problems in Brazil.
Also corruption investigation are mostly focusing in arresting and destroyin Lula's image even though there is not a single proof for arresting him. Even tho the leader of the other party was already caught and released with a helicopter full of cocaine back in the day. On the left is the judge that is behind Car Wash operation, and on the right the leader of PSDB which had 1 ton of cocaine in his helicopter, and on the middle our president
Any day now.
corruption will always exist and is plaged by every sector of Brazilian society. The left actually realized it and instead of fighting it used it to bribe the politicians for his program of reducing poverty and unemployment, and that way we grew 5% a year back in 2003-2010
>there is not a single proof for arresting him
What is Odebrecht? Lula / Dilma's theft of funds estimated to be some R$ 96 billion? The ridiculous over-invoicing?
>corruption will always exist and is plaged by every sector of Brazilian society
Well, here's why Brazil is destined to be forever doomed. You accepted your fate, with absolutely no objections. #Lula2018?
On one hand, Germans became so PC, they have no awareness of danger and flood the country with backwards refugees, on the other hand, Brazilians have no clue what it's like to live in a country with very little corruption - they accept corruption is everyday life in Brazil and do nothing to change it.
>corruption will always exist and is plaged by every sector of Brazilian society.
Do you also want me to fuck your girl for you?!
What's up with my people that makes them give up at the first sign of hardship?
We've won a six years war se for not rest until Assunção was occupied and López dead.
Did the Republic took our balls also?
Odebrecht did corruption by themselves and there isn't a single proof that relates Dilma and Lula to them, and if there was they would be arrested just many ex-politicians were, also Dilma was pleaded innocent by the same Senate that impeached her despite being impeached for a "" supposed "" crime. Also I dont where you are getting that 100 billion figure. Also we arent Germans, corruption is done by everyone, we dont follow the rules and live in a harmonious anarchy, where culture is the main ingredient for maintaining order. We are so culturally strong that we will defy the society laws for imposing something that every brazilian deem as fine. Hence that is why we dont live in total chaos despite, not following rules. That may sound really abstract especially to a culture that follows everything obediently
>right wing shitposters hate social democrats and call them communists
Nothing new.
Not an argument.
Going against corruption is going against Brazilian culture by itself my friend. Our culture is basically so strong that makes we trust our family, friends and people over the rules that are imposed to us. Hence why corruption is everywhere, sure it must be fought when it reaches a level where on guy alone use it to become rich and fuck everyone, but brazilians themselves fight over it. We got a chaotic culture, and we must adapt our government to it and not really adapt the whole country to the government
But them why Pedro II reign was so corruption free?
His reign only has two major corruption scandals.
>corrupt free
kek, m8 nobility in the monarchy could be bought, do you honestly think it was corrupt-free? Also that time people didnt have that much access to information as we do, so it was much more easier to suppress corruption scandals my friend
since the fall of the dicatorship, he is arguably the best prez huezil ever had. the huehues here that love to hate him do so bc they like to be edgelords.
Except his party is literally communist, they identify as communist and embrace communism. His "right wing" opponents are social democrats you fucking retard.
en.wikipedia.org
>maoism
>communism
I don't know how much more blatant you can be than that
quick rundown:
>FHC rebuilt the economy
>FHC liked to globalist created a fake image of Brazil as the country of the future for international investors
>Lula made a transitional government
>inherited economic stability + international investors
>Lula transformed the state machinery into the gold mine of the revolution
>used public education as propaganda machine
>every public servant had to be leftist
>used a Soros like distribution of public money to every kind of phony foundations and ngos the left has created in Brazil and Latin America
>the whole plan was developed and executed by members of the São Paulo Forum
>FHC linked to the globalists*
well he didnt statize the private sector in 8 years of the government
>epoca.globo.com
>veja.abril.com.br
>imprensaviva.com
I can see Brazilians being prejudiced towards Lula for his lack of formal education, but they don't hate him because they are "edgelords," they hate him because he is a criminal and is under investigation. It a breath of fresh air amid people with this type of mindset . I can;t believe Brazilians actually think corruption is an essential part of their culture.
Meant to reply to
Only retard defeatist think corruption is 'necessary and part of our culture'. I haven't left yet because I still have hope things will change here.
>literally quoting reinaldo azevedo and two other biased media sources
m8, the media is connected to the globalist media and want in everyway Lula to lose 2018 because he wants our country to be sovereign and against globalization. Also yeah, just like mafia is a part of italian culture and southern european culture, the only way to destroy corruption is to actually destroy every family bond and the passion that we have for living and replace it for germanic order and autism. Forget it m8, we can be developed and first world just like italy is despite being corrupt
>corruption is a part of our culture
this is a leftist meme created to
>induce hatred towards portugal, blaming it for everything
>induce hatred towards the old politic class
>and finally justify when they got caught in corruption like: "we had to take part in corruption, because the system always worked so here, but we do for the greater good of our people"
Lula piggybacked on previous economic plans by FHC and the rather coincidental growth of China(and all the business that provided) and in the end lucked out.
All he did with the growth gifted to him was install welfare plans that he knew were unsustainable. He took millions out of poverty by giving them handouts with no prospects of actual, meaningful growth. Nowadays, 25% of the population is enslaved to Bolsa Senpaiília. Perfect for his party, of course. Nobody that benefits from bolsa senpaiília would dare vote for any party that isn't PT, lest they lose their allowance.
And as the program grew in scope and profits from deals with China decreased, he leaves office, hands a time bomb to his protegé Dilma, and lives happily with his heroic imagery and corruption-bred retirement.
You'll find that there's a lot less people willing to praise Dilma than him, even though she was just a sacrificial lamb to justify Brazil's collapse, a process that started in Lula's term.
>even burgers parroting the leftist propaganda
mind your own greasy business
This desu. This is a good quick rundown.
God damn it hiroshima fa m ilia is a word
Lava-Jato must go on, it's the only thing that can make this country better. If you believe otherwise I don't even know what you're doing here.
Yeah, lula lucked out for 8 years, even in 2008 when we had the biggest world crisis since 1929
a faggot that will ultimately be remembered as yet another reminder why communism is the killer of nations at the expense of all solid legacy that gets destroyed by the surplus hordes of useless yet entitled subhumans
>we
Care to enlighten me what Lula did to save us from 2008's crisis?
We did feel it. Not as much as other countries because again, we dealt primarily with China and not the US.
Then why he doesn't arrest Aécio or any PSDB politician, I mean Aécio unironically had a helicopter full of cocaine and hasn't even been indicted. Meanwhile Moro haven't got one proof linking lula to corruption schemes and he is already defendant in 5 processes
Hows the police strike? Did more die?
>Care to enlighten me what Lula did to save us from 2008's crisis?
Were you too young to remember my friend? He literally gave tax exemptions to most national industries to foment our internal market, and it did work to the point that in 2009 we grew 7,5%, meanwhile most countries were going on the second year of recession
>I was reading about him at wikipedia and looking at some graphs, and his government was unironically the best thing that came in ages in Brazil since Pedro II.
>I was reading about him at wikipedia
That's yout problem.
>Why do BRs here are so against Lula and want him arrested?
Because 12 years under his party wasn't enough to make us any smarter.
Brazilians are pathetically stupid and will gobble whatever boogeymen the media chooses if the smearing campaign goes on for long enough.
Lula is seen as our greatest representative of the people since the 80's. And since then the media targets him and tries to make a villain out of him.
It's the same thing against Trump. They invent whatever headline that can cause the most damage - oftentimes the news itself won't have the same character of the headline. They will force that narrative until you cannot escape it.
If it's completely false they will either not correct themselves or correct themselves in a fashion that nobody sees.
So we have that going for over 30 years. For the last 15 he's been target with force due to the fact of being a president or an ex-president, to the point that everything he did or did not do becomes negative news. Everything he says or does not says becomes negative news. Seems familiar?
Then come the corruption scandals from people under him, from people of his party.
In brazil we have a dynamic of favoritism in politics. You do everything if you have a godfather. If you do not, you have to trade influence or effectively blackmail each other.
That way when PT came to terms with reality and went on to do what everybody did, they got bashed on - fairly, of course. It's not because everybody does that you have to do. But it's not like you cannot understand that in brazil you cannot govern without dirtying your hands eventually. And here is the thing: understanding is not justifying. The well in brazil is so poisoned that even this basic notion is overlooked.
So when PT got their hands dirty everyone came to him and tried to make him liable for everything his party/related people did.
But in 15 years of scrutiny not ONE THING was found on him. NOT ONE SUBSTANTIAL IMPLICATION WAS FOUND ON HIM.
Now they try to relativize and turn the world upside down to implicate him, but that's all. Lula is a great man.
he also followed Meirelles policies (i.e. FHCs policies), and, as soon as Dilma change it to PT's preferred "developmentist" (aka centrally-directed crony capitalism) the country went to shit.
This explains the situation really well
mises.org
Cronyism + keyneysianism + easy money
ptbr- mises.org.br
See this also mises.org
That's the problem: keynesian policies are good only during crises - and even that is debatable - but try to stop them after that.
>mises.org
For starters, Moro doesn't have the power to arrest Aécio. He's a senator. Foro privilegiado, remember?
He does have the power to arrest Lula, despite Lula's efforts.
And you're being ignorant, either on purpose of by accident. Just last week we got news of confessions related to Aécio receiving bribes for the construction of the Cidade Administrativa in Belo Horizonte. He's focusing on Lula, no doubt, but he's definitely not ignoring other corrupt politicians.
>No tax reform
>No political reform
>No labor reform
>No social security reform
>Subsidies everywhere
>Cheap loans for close friends (see Eike Batista)
>Rock bottom in industry competitiveness
>9 out of 10 universities turned to trash
>Science and innovation: unheard of
>Assistencialism fueled political corrals everywhere
>A new corruption scandal every month
Lula dindu nuffin productive and Dilma continued his legacy.
>All he did with the growth gifted to him was install welfare plans that he knew were unsustainable. He took millions out of poverty by giving them handouts with no prospects of actual, meaningful growth. Nowadays, 25% of the population is enslaved to Bolsa Senpaiília. Perfect for his party, of course. Nobody that benefits from bolsa senpaiília would dare vote for any party that isn't PT, lest they lose their allowance.
THIS X1000
Every time you read a dumb "macroeconomics" article like those that mentioned the "Venezuelan Miracle" or the "Brazilian Miracle", you can throw them directly to the bin.
Its typical in our shithole Banana Republics:
>government directs the distribution of factors of production towards X good (in Venezuela it was oil, here it was soy) that is currently enjoying a good price internationally
>government now has enough money to enact welfare plans, keeps the niggers happy
>everything runs smoothly until said good drops price. That's the moment governments go fullretard and start getting indebted, money printing, price controls, etc.
When governments control production, and use our money to subsidize it, they don't have the speed to react to a sudden economic variable change, and worst of all, we the citizens pay the economic miscalculation.
So you can fuck off with your commie shit, take a helicopter ride and leave private enterprise alone.
And yet Dilma herself admits that they underestimated the force of the crisis, and it grew to be much worse than they had anticipared.. Those measures were just a bandaid, judg like everything else in his term.
> he doesn't arrest Aécio or any PSDB politician,
Wow, congrats on proving you're a partidarian piece of shit.
Go learn how your own contry works Paulinho
not really the problem itself was about the fact that Dilma was denied any action about the crisis because she wanted Lava-Jato to go on, and Cunha stopped the congress so him and the PMDB could save themselves
well not my fault when Lava-Jato is partidarian as fuck
>When governments control production, and use our money to subsidize it, they don't have the speed to react to a sudden economic variable change, and worst of all, we the citizens pay the economic miscalculation.
So you believe the private sector will simply adequate itself to the crisis and not simply abandon boat, fire everybody and flee to another country or sector?
>be developing country
>grow 5% per year
No fucking shit. It's called industrialization and happens everywhere the government isn't totally incompetent
It would have less reason to flee and it would have an easier time adequating itself to a crisis if its productive energies weren't inhibited by regulation and taxation.
Reminder that it takes 80 days to start a company in Brazil. The problem this country has is too much bureaucracy and regulations.
I'll try to keep it simple.
>misery
He lowered the extreme poverty line to obcenely low income levels. Like, if you had a monthly income of above U$ 50, you would be above the line. And guess what? His welfare program (wich was just combining the already existing programs) was just enough to pull out someone from the extreme poverty line.
>growth
He literally bade it so anyone could have a credit card. Even people with no stable income. That's why the family indebtment exploded a few years ago.
>education
Before him you were either alphabetized or illiterate. Lula created a slew of new categories, like "can write his own name", so to be officially illiterate you'd have to be Mogli. So yeah, he "eradicated" the illiteration rates.
>violence
If you were killed during a robbery attempt, guess what, you weren't a victim of homicide. And if someone shot you but you managed to get to the hospital alive, that's not a homicide either. And even after all this mathemagics we still have homicide rates of countries on war.
>health
Yeah, we got universal healthcare. Beautiful on paper, but in reality, you'd have to wait over 6 months to have an appointment with an odontologist, and another few months if you needed to have a cavity filled. So that's why pretty much everyone has a health plan, because the state run healthcare system doesn't work.
>if its productive energies weren't inhibited by regulation and taxation.
Hence why, the state should be minimum, worker's legislations shouldn't exist, pensions should be private only, that way the entrepreneurs will have all the power they want and they won't abuse the system, and will invest in diminishing economic inequality and their wealth will trickle down and not be concentrated in those that have power over the economy
I can smell the irony.
You're forgetting that:
1) The poor will be less fucked by the most perverse taxes of all: consumption taxes and inflation
2) The poor will be less fucked by the regulations that prevent them from starting a business
3) The poor will be less fucked by the now cheaper prices of goods and services
You probably believe that the government can simply outlaw poverty. Why do you hate poor people?
All of that happened because the period he ruled over was one of externally favorable factors to the Brazilian economy (commodity prices were high for a decade). The crisis we have now happened because commodity prices dropped, and it showed that the fundamental problems Brazil has (over regulation, business unfriendly rules) were not solved at all. If the country relies on externally favorable environments to grow then it will stop growing once the external environment changes, and then what happens now will keep happening.
I don't want Lula because I know he doesn't understand all this and he thinks everything he did was great, even though the same policies will not work again because the world has changed and commodity prices probably won't be as high as they were before for as long as they were.
Best part is corruption, though.
>Venezuela, as an economic partner of Brazil due to Mercosur, asks the brazilian government a loan so they can invest into infrastructural works (like building roads) that would theoretically help both Brazil and Venezuela
>the Brazilian government allows it, by using money from our Development Bank
>Venezuela uses the money to hire Odebrecht, a brazilian contractor that is now known to be involved in a polictical scandal and divert several billion dollars to Lula's party (Worker's Party), their allies, Odebrecht heads themselves and Maduro
>the contracts are overpriced by tenfold
>the overprice is shared between the above mentioned parties
>years later Venezuela claims that they can't pay the debt to us
>the Brazilian government pardons the debt because well, Venezuela is fucked
Lula himself justified his gains with fictional lectures in wich he would have been paid with literally U$ 4000 PER MINUTE of speech.
I believe there are people that simply don't give a fuck about poverty at all, and think the solution is basically giving more power to the people that don't give a fuck at all about poverty. I mean just like in all LatAm there are billionaires, rich people, and why these people don't industrialize our country like they did in the USA, Europe? Because simple they don't want to, different from these countries, we, having a good life, settle by it, and will not create more problems just for the heck of it
so why haven't moro arrested lula yet?