Unions are Marxist

Unions pay people not for what they do, but for how long they have worked- the same way that Marxists earn more the longer they stay (and more able to infiltrate government).

Perhaps the Rust Belt is more Marxists than even Commiefornia.

The issue with unions is they reward their members not based on their performance but on the length of time they've been part of the racket.

Which would not be a problem if the government did not make regulations saying that people HAD to become a union member if working for a certain company...

When can we end this racket forever?

Unions are fine, without them people would be getting screwed over for the work they would be doing with independent contractors who also don't provide for their benefits. The only thing wrong with them though is that they're usually pro-democrat.

Companies can't be cucked into allowing the government to legislate that their workers must belong to a union.

Unions don't increase the amount that anyone is willing to spend for a product. And thus unions decrease the amount of product sold in order to boost their worker's pay. This creates unemployment- which is shouldered by NON-UNION tax payers.

Union proponents are selfish, and no different from the Left.

I'm pro strong union. I want my blue collar laborers to feel represented and have solid benefits and fair pay. right to work sounds great until the workers realize they are treated like trash, and they do a trash job because of it.

i'm sorry but what is so bad about paying more based on experience?

> i'm sorry but what is so bad about paying more based on experience?

Unions, by increasing cost, necessarily increase unemployment. Which is fine SO LONG as the union shoulders the cost of those that they PRICE OUT of work.

>right to work sounds great until the workers realize they are treated like trash, and they do a trash job because of it.

This is an example of how poorly union 'think' is- they assume that an employed would not pay more if it meant the workers did much better. The opposite is true- when union workers can't be fired, they do a horrible job.

>no union job
>get hurt
>get laid off that day
>replace you
>tfw they take you to their doctor
>he's very shitty and makes you feel like you're some kind of bad guy

It's called EMPLOYMENT INSURANCE. Only a commie would think that the government should pay for his insurance. Which is what Cruz vs Sanders was about. Commie.

>calls me a commie
>lives in a country with "free" healthcare

I'm just visiting Trudea's wife while Trudeau fucks dat Ivanka. You gonna have a young Cuban/Frenchie in the White House while Trudeau is going to have a substantially darker baby.

>Unions pay people not for what they do, but for how long they have worked-
Wrong.

You obviously do not understand most union halls.

I work out of a skilled labor union, and Ill give you a rundown (it won't be quick) on how it works.

As a Union worker, my Hall dispatches me to a signed contractor at their request for X number of tradesmen. Our hall calls EVERYONE on the list. This is a "list" of every member seeking employment. They start at the longest unemployed and go down until they "fill the call".

I then go to the jobsite.

A construction project is something that has a beginning and an end. It is not office work with an infinite amount of papers that never stop.

I go to a project for a period of time. Sometimes a few weeks and other times for 6+ months. At the end of the project, I report back to the hall, and they put me at the bottom of the list, where I wait for future calls for dispatch. As workers go out, I go up on the list again.

In addition, we have a training system of apprentices. They are paid 50% and work up over 4-5 years to the full rate. Once at the "full rate" you make the exact same as every other journeyman in the local union. Every man makes the same. It does not matter if you have 3 decades or 1 day as a journeyman.

We are a large group that shares work across a large area. It is "communal", but we support coal, natural gas and many rights and ideas that are typically Right wing. We also game the government for jobs and fight for many democratic causes when it benefits us as a whole.

In the last election, it was HIGHLY advised that we all vote for Hillary.....most of us defied this and voted as we see fit.

The next time you plug in your vibrator, thank a skilled union laborer. We worked on the power plant that gives you electric. We work on the sewage plants that keep your water clean. We work on your water supply infrastructure.

You do best to not talk about things you don't understand.

> They start at the longest unemployed and go down until they "fill the call".

Most unions start with the most seniority.

> In addition, we have a training system of apprentices. They are paid 50% and work up over 4-5 years to the full rate. Once at the "full rate" you make the exact same as every other journeyman in the local union. Every man makes the same. It does not matter if you have 3 decades or 1 day as a journeyman.

Again, not how MOST UNIONS work.

> We also game the government for jobs and fight for many democratic causes when it benefits us as a whole.

aka you are cronies- using government power against others.

> The next time you plug in your vibrator, thank a skilled union laborer. We worked on the power plant that gives you electric. We work on the sewage plants that keep your water clean. We work on your water supply infrastructure.

As though non-union labor could not do those things, and do them 2x better...sad how poorly you have 'thought' through your points.

In addition to pay, our hall offers dental, medical, annuity and pension. Our benefits are self paid. People cry that we make too much, but we don't get too many volunteers to put on the harness, get your weld hood and climb 12 stories in the air to fix the inside of a dirty chemical tank that is leaking. We do jobs that the average person simply cannot comprehend. The places I work are generally heavy industry, and are everything bad about a job. They are loud, filthy, chemical ridden and are outright dangerous. Perfection is a must. Simple mistakes can cost many times the initial cost.....up to and including the loss of human life. You as an individual create your conditions. I am aware of every chemical around because I know to ask. I know to ask for face masks when needed. We are required in our hall to have 40 hours of OSHA training in addition to 4 years of schooling.

What I do will take years off of my life. I demand to be paid what I am worth. It is supply and demand. There is little supply of labor in my field, so the pay is great.

Don't like it? Tough shit. I probally don't like what you do, but I don't judge you for it. Hopefully it has some benefit to society....

This tbqh. Voluntary unions are fine, involuntary ones are competitive illiberal and should be abolished.

FUCKING KILL YOURSELF NIGGER

WE AINT GOIN ANYWHERE

My family has been Union since we have been in this Country.

How do I become the guy who rides the trains or the one who works shipping things from china to the US?

>Most unions start with the most seniority.
A labor union is very different than your idea of a "Union". This is not a private sector union. I do not work for the contractor. I work for my hall. I do not apply for jobs at a contractor, then pay dues to a hall. My hall dispatches me to work.

I am explaining how United Association union jobs work. This is me providing proof. Feel free to google that. You have provided no proof to your statement while trying to convince me that it is true.

>Again, not how MOST UNIONS work.
I don't know how things happen in Canada, but again, the United association does have a HUGE presence in Canada as well. You will do best to research your point further. Just because your creepy uncle works for the teamsters, does not mean that you understand Unions.

>aka you are cronies- using government power against others.
Big business fights for their right to enrich the share holders. We fight for the rights of the workers. The motto is "A fair days wage for a fair days work". We strive to make sure our contractors make bank, but we also make sure we get a fair wage to do it.

>As though non-union labor could not do those things, and do them 2x better...sad how poorly you have 'thought' through your points.
This is more of your opinion.....which is irrelevant because you have proven that you really don't understand skilled labor or union halls. Sure any joe-blow could do it. Hell, a bunch of "Refugees" could do what I do and for less. The reason why we are still around is because contractors know where quality is. This is a big part of our apprentice program. Quality of work sets our hall apart from the non-union shops. We get jobs because of this that they can only dream of. Supply and demand. Why buy a Chevy when you want a Cadillac? You get what you pay for, and companies know that.

How do you get in one?

sacrifice your first born

Thats the shitty thing about them. You basically need to be born in one. If you want a good job, go to your local hall and ask for a job. They will say no, but go sit up there every morning till they give you one and prove you aren't out to get hurt on the job. I plan on being a Union boss one day and changing the way they do shit. It isnt perfect but alot better than working for some bullshit boss.

Fuck you nigger. I wouldn't work in a union for twice... nay thrice what I make now.

>In addition to pay, our hall offers dental, medical, annuity and pension. Our benefits are self paid.

It's easy to pay good when you OUTLAW competition...

> People cry that we make too much, but we don't get too many volunteers to put on the harness, get your weld hood and climb 12 stories in the air to fix the inside of a dirty chemical tank that is leaking. We do jobs that the average person simply cannot comprehend.

People will do anything for a price. And the thought that you are doing work for less than such price is laughable.

> The places I work are generally heavy industry, and are everything bad about a job. They are loud, filthy, chemical ridden and are outright dangerous. Perfection is a must. Simple mistakes can cost many times the initial cost.....up to and including the loss of human life.

And non-union workers could not be compelled, by risk of being fired, to do a good job...the ones who are able do the best have no risk of doing it badly?...

> I know to ask for face masks when needed. We are required in our hall to have 40 hours of OSHA training in addition to 4 years of schooling.
Implying that it does not make sense to train non-union workers.

> What I do will take years off of my life.

Every job has this- both making life harder (sickness) and shorter. And every wage has this factored in.

> I demand to be paid what I am worth. It is supply and demand.

Says that is paid by supply & demand WHILE having the government legislate again *truly* supply & demand non-union workers.

> There is little supply of labor in my field, so the pay is great.

Little supply, but still requires government to limit the workforce. It's statements like that that make it hard to take union workers seriously.

> Don't like it? Tough shit. I probally don't like what you do, but I don't judge you for it.

The difference is that I don't use government to give me an unfair advantage.

>You basically need to be born in one
Fuck.

I know its shitty, Im out to change that tho.

A friend pulled me into the teamsters union. Best job and benefits I've ever had.

I've been getting fucked over with pay and health insurance by non union companies my entire life. I finally got a job with a union company and make a fair wage and have medical great medical insurance. Unions are great for workers. They should not be necessary in a "1st world nation", but from my experience they are.

See this man knows whats up. Eventually I wanna be an organizer for the Teamsters or LiUNA. Unions have to change the way we operate or we will literally die out.

>You basically need to be born in one
It helps to have family, but It also helps that you have good grades in school. I am not joking either. There is a selection process, and our hall will only take the best who want it. We don't take society's rejects. We certainly have our "bad eggs" but they have a way of making enough mistakes to get kicked out.

No one says that unions don't pay well- only that they lower employment (by increase worker costs), without shouldering the cost of those unemployed.

If taxes were lower, employees could buy their own insurance without having to pay the tax on the income first (which employers can avoid). Then you could carry your insurance.

Unions won't die out so long as they are supported (with special legislation) by the government.

Without government, unions would have nearly 0 power.

>but It also helps that you have good grades in school
I've been out for almost a decade.will they still check?

Ayyy Lmao

Heres a fucking leaf thinking he knows what he is talking about.

We Government is against Unions because we are literally the defacto government of the working class, or at least historically we were. In Revolutionary Spain, Unions ran without the Government even existing. Whats your case now?

>The difference is that I don't use government to give me an unfair advantage.
Ill point this out....but again everything you say is proving more and more that you have no clue.

Our government fights us on everything. You name it, they fight us. They have tried to award contracts in our territory many times, and came back to organized labor every time. They sold off the power plants to private companies, and then the private companies picked up up after they failed to be able to do what we do in the same time.

Every contractor I work for is a private company. Every job I have worked on in the last decade has been a non-government project. Non-union contractors cannot compete in certain fields.

There is a place in the trades for unions and non-unions. I don't disagree with that. Understanding the type of work is essential to understanding why. You don't. I do. I do understand the differences however.

If you pardon me, I have to be up at 4 30am to go work on a gas-fired power plant. I won't be posting any more tonight. Keep believing what you want, but keep being wrong inside of your bubble.

It depends entirely on the union, in some industries they are the only protection for the worker

In America it seems different though, especially in construction

Never argue with a leaf, unionbro. There is no winning with them, they pay $50 for a case of beer so they are always angry.

I like the idea of a Union but sometimes they suck. Prehaps my experiance is different since jobs did not get bid out like you described but I used to be a teamster and all the union did was rubber stamp anything management wanted to do.

The only thing they ever did was take money out of our checks. We voted them out a few years back. Now management treats us like garbage and seniority means nothing. We got screwed all the way around

o/ m8. Let him come to the states and look for a job realizing he cant get one or make shit regardless.

Sick job i wish i could have a legit shot at employment like that but it seems like either your pops worked at the plant or you were in the Navy

at least thats how it looks here on the East Coast

Thats how it works here on the east coast at least

>they assume that an employed would not pay more if it meant the workers did much better.

Without a union there is no reason for an employer to do anything but bare minimum for the worker.

Like how one game publisher ran out of budget and ended up paying their developers with left over xboxes, which were less value then they were owed

>Our government fights us on everything. You name it, they fight us. They have tried to award contracts in our territory many times, and came back to organized labor every time.


So the government Created you and Fights you?...seems like a waste of resources X 2.

> They sold off the power plants to private companies, and then the private companies picked up up after they failed to be able to do what we do in the same time.

The private company had no workers because the government legislated against private workers- this is not a surprise.

>Every contractor I work for is a private company. Every job I have worked on in the last decade has been a non-government project. Non-union contractors cannot compete in certain fields.

How do we know this when non-union workers are legislated against?...

>There is a place in the trades for unions and non-unions. I don't disagree with that. Understanding the type of work is essential to understanding why. You don't. I do. I do understand the differences however.

Somehow, by magic, non-union workers cannot compete. Is this the magic that union leaders sell you?

fucking 12 year old leaf has never held down employment in his life

pink collar doesn't count faggot

24 beer is 40 USD. And we have real beer. Keep thinking that drinking 12 1.5% beers is impressive. Real beer has 4.5% alcohol.

>drinking macro brews

>Without a union there is no reason for an employer to do anything but bare minimum for the worker.
Unions only pay more by increasing prices/wages, which causes unemployment- which pays 0.

Kokanee and Molson are both 10x the beer than anything AmeriTards could fathom tasting.

Lol bud light has 4.5% alcohol and I can get 24 for $13...which is about 18 minutes of work for a union employee.

Unions follow increased wealth, not cause it.

But keep being confused by the direction of time- guess that is how you managed to elect a joke as president.

4.3% is Bud Light- might as well drink piss.

lol try some real beer faggot
They passed out these anti union propaganda books before we de-certified a few years ago. The stuff your posting is almost word for word. Not sure if your a willing shill or just useful idiot

It really depends on the job and the skill and demand of the workers. Certain levels of IT jobs will compete for you for instance, offering better incentives and salary. I got a great sign on bonus and annual bonuses and increases.

IT got sweet talked in the early days by double dealing CEOs imho you could have been the strongest union in the country

>They passed out these anti union propaganda books before we de-certified a few years ago. The stuff your posting is almost word for word. Not sure if your a willing shill or just useful idiot
I know nothing of formal anti-union information- only that unions cause unemployment (by increasing wages, and thus product price). And unemployment pays 0.

Unions were formed for the workers. At one time there was nothing for the people. There wasn't workers rights, or anything. What else would you have if there was not the EEOC/ OSHA etc.?

>What else would you have if there was not the EEOC/ OSHA etc.?

If risk was higher than today, then pay would also increase. And perhaps some people are more willing/ABLE to deal with risk. Not everyone is a 300lb ameriFat who requires guardrails on a 3ft high platform.

Did you get rejected by a union? Me and fellow unionbros always say 'They hate us, cause they ain't us'.

Nah cutty! Look at the old photos of New York iron workers. Times were different back then. People worked to eat, not pay their Netflix sub.
"If risk was higher than today, then pay would also increase."
No Buey jose....
Working in dangerous environments is serious shit. Every safety rule is written in blood."
But I guess you could scream about a 300lb straw man instead.

Was part of a union- I could not stand the amount of coffee drinking and poor workmanship.

> Cronyism

You don't need unions for that

Unions are for faggots that require nepotism to secure a decent gig and lack the nuts to negotiate with their boss to secure equitable compensation for services rendered. Fuck unions.

Have you no job experience at all? You don't need a union to keep dumbasses from getting fired.

But such is the only reason that unions have any power.

fpbp candabro, heres a rare pepe

You don't want to be a train conductor. Trust me.
>you find hobos sleeping in your train car
>had to ship some top secret government shit
>strained family life
>have to go 3 days with no sleep

It wasn't a good job.

Right to work is the best option.
The left always says "right to work" is union busting legislation. Its really just the ability for working people to decide for themselves whether they want to belong to a union and pay union dues.

Right now, in many states you are required to be a union member to be employed in certain professions.

As someone mentioned earlier, this is illiberal, it denies people of their natural right to self-determination, and its a fundamental problem.

Right to work isnt union busting, althoguh it is represented as such, and allows people the liberal right of voluntary association. Rather than the current compulsory association.