Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To acheive such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said.
OK, let's say that Schultz use the newly formed EU army to impose a communist dictatorship. What would happen to me and my family? You will kill us because we are fascist?
Jaxson Foster
If you cause a ruckus, then yes. You will have the choice to be exiled if you want though
Juan Hall
Exiled? Communism want the whole planet, end of borders, end of history, end of individuality, a fucking planet under a single dictator. I can be exiled but if your dystopia will take power, in a couple hundred years there will be no place to be exiled. Why a rational human being would want this?
Cooper Cox
>wants world communist >Allows exile What's your endgame?
Tyler Ortiz
This. Commies aren't people
Jason Anderson
Mars will need plenty of workforce for our hard labour camps.
Hunter Cruz
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Aaron Rodriguez
Yeah! fucking commies who think words mean things!
Isaac Butler
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Easton Myers
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Colton Turner
>Be normie >Enjoy capitalism >Gets sent to Mars for hard labor
Sebastian Martinez
We want a direct democracy not a dictatorship. We want an end to borders but immigration wouldn't be a problem because everyone would be employed so no one would move to another country just for a job. And no we don't mind you being an individual. In fact we want you and only you to get the full value of your labor.
Jackson Taylor
islamic gommunism
Julian Bailey
FUCK WHITE PEOPLE FUCK DRUMPF
Andrew Martin
You won't be forced into hard labor just because you like capitalism. But you probably won't have those feelings once you get bunch of free shit and no taxes because labor vouchers.
Mason Lewis
Communists =/= Liberals/Socdems
Easton Russell
>Free shit Ayyyy
Jayden White
Once we have labor vouchers instead of money there will be no need for taxes and you can still get tons of free shit.
Nicholas Bennett
Care to defend your fellow comrades at reddit?
Kevin Cox
You talking about /r/socialism? If so not my comrades.
Dylan Hughes
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Sebastian Cooper
How different are you between them then? Don't get me start a #notallcommies
Grayson Roberts
You can't have direct democracy and communism. In direct democracy, most people will want an economical rewards as an incentive for their good work, and you cannot give economical rewards to some people and not to other, this will recreate the classes, and having a surplus of cash and goods will also fuck up your planned production, or I miss something?
Adam Gomez
I don't believe in censorship. I'm not a liberal who likes to LARP as a communist. I like cat girls.
Thomas Johnson
your kind be the first up against the wall
Wyatt Lee
Every red thread I see, I will make sure this is posted.
Fuck communism.
Nathan Powell
We don't want equality of outcome. People who work hard should get more money. If you had actually read Marx you would know this. You know how in most modern capitalist constitutions it says that we can't go back to feudalism? So in the socialist world republic the constitution says we can never go back to capitalism.
Ryder Harris
The only reason that communism is "from each according to his ability to each according to his need" is that sometime in the future when post scarcity has been achieved we want to just give everyone everything for free.
Gavin Jackson
My comrade.
Wyatt Collins
>Be commie >Teams up with le reddit comrades cause you don't care about your difference as long as you get rid of big meanie porky >Revolution success! Capitalism abolished >Le reddit comrades begins to be intolerant of anyone who is defending capitalisn, facism, monarchist, catlism >Reddit comrades gets into power instead of (you), sends all normies to Mars >Be you, who attempt to speak for the normies, gets labeled as counter revolutionary
James Johnson
>retards still falling for the egalitarian rule by plebs meme
Joseph Phillips
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Hunter Evans
No.
Jackson Mitchell
>tankies
Isaac Peterson
I don't get it. You want to end high and middle class and create a new society where some people are able to get more money than other people. How this will not recreate class division?
You will end up with the same situations as pre-communism, but with a lot less personal freedom.
Jose Rodriguez
Get this shit the FUCK off this board.
Jackson Allen
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Luis Butler
>be polish toilet scrubber >be a failure under communism >be a failure under capitalism
Carter Stewart
Why don't you like Stalin? He was a great intellectual.
Mason King
>Toothpaste
Hudson Adams
Eat a dick, porky
Ryder Campbell
Because instead of it being some people getting more money because they exploited people its the people at the top worked the hardest. And because people aren't exploited they will be paid the full value of there labor and won't have to work extra hours just so their boss gets more money.
Luis Cook
Nice thumbnail.
Joseph White
What are the benefits to communism?
Brody Young
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Jason Parker
Human paradise on Earth and beyond.
Jonathan Lopez
>Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage
Adorable. Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy, too?
Nathan Reed
this thread is a fucking punchline.
Xavier Cruz
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Dominic Johnson
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Chase Taylor
You won't have to work as long because you get the full value of your labor. You will always have a job due to the planned economy. You can participate in direct democracy in the workplace and decide with your fellow workers how the company is run. You could participate in a democratic government and you could travel unrestrained in the socialist world republic.
Lincoln Brown
When are USA and Europe communist start to send help to Venezuela?
Tyler Flores
Yeah! Fucking Commies who think words mean things!
Daniel Scott
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Kayden White
You mean the country with some nationalization and price control the not socialist one? I don't know.
Charles Flores
>full value of their labor my ass
The state need money to fund the army, the media, the space travels and the party leader hookers. In communist countries the state don't mind much about the population, since people can't rebel, and tend to spend a lot in big works and infrastructures, you will get the bare minimum to live and the rest will be spent "for the greater future of the nation", and if you are not happy with your work, you can't even resign.
But again, if you reward your best people more for their good work, you create an imbalance, someone will get richer and classes will be created, you can't escape.
Oliver Murphy
>anybody who isnt a gommie is a bilthy gapidalist :DDD
Okay there mr double digits. Also
AHAHAHA NICE HISTORICAL PREDETERMINISM NERD
Chase Gonzalez
Free shit is degenerate That's disgusting user why would you allow the people to have direct democracy especially regarding how they are meant to work this will only put into place a system of decadence because the common man wishes for an easy life and will attempt to put into place practices that whilst making his life easier will cause a large loss in efficiency in the workplace
Jose Scott
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Sebastian Cruz
Yes classes will be created but everyone will have equal opportunity instead or "born poor? Looks like your going to have to try extra hard!" We want to abolish taxes. People will be paid with labor vouchers digitally that they can use to prove they did labor and get goods. No money so no taxes. And yes you can resign. I'm not in favor of soviet style totalitarianism.
You don't need communism to have equal opportunities, but with communism you surely have "less opportunities" And if classes will be created, in some generations the gap between rich and poor will be so big that people "born poor" cannot have the full range of opportunities as people born rich. Just like today in capitalistic societies.
No tax? How can you pay for the army? and for healthcare? Who will build roads and dams?
Jack Bell
But user from the paper says they're not entirely owned by the workers also there is the factor that these putting are putting their own money into the business this would naturally create a situation where the employees who have invested money would have an obligation to be more efficient since they would be seeing that business as their own there is also the factor that they are in a capitalistic society the drive and need for money would be far more pronounced than in a situation where the country that business or workplace was in was a communist nation
John Robinson
That these people* 50 degree heat and sleep deprivation do not mix
William Roberts
You don't get it. There is no money there is instead labor vouchers en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Labour_voucher Labor vouchers can't be transferred they are simply created as proof of labor you have done. The people who build the roads and damns and work in health care are paid in labor vouchers which they can cash in for food or other goods. There is no tax but all this stuff still exists. Also as for the thing with classes there is no inheritance so no one is born rich or poor. When someone dies there labor vouchers just go away.
Kevin Jenkins
Explain why direct workplace democracy wouldn't work?
Easton Cruz
But user couldn't they use the labor vouchers to buy material goods as a intermediary for trading/giving to your offspring
Commies are delusional people who refuse to directly discuss their own ideology. I already attempted to talk to them in dozens of threads, their ideology clearly cannot survive outside of echo chambers.
Also, learn to sage, you fucking idiots. Type sage into the options box at every reply.
Brandon Scott
Yes but then your stuck with a bunch of goods and because there is no money you can't sell them.
Charles Thomas
Centralized planning has been debunked but decentralized planning has not.
Liam James
direct workplace democracy would only work depending on the environment they are in for example in a capitalistic society there would still be the drive that has been put in place to obtain as much wealth as possible to both survive and not die in the gutter and improve their station if it was in a communist society where there isn't as much as a "sink or swim" mindset then it would only lead to doing the bare minimum amount of work required not to be sent to a gulag
Charles Fisher
Only logical ways of making a wealthier society: >allocate resources more efficiently >train and educate people to work better and/or harder
How commies plan on doing it: >abolish the only method of valuing things >make a gibsmedat system where people don't have to work to survive
You literally can't get more delusional than that.
TABLE 2 Timings for applying the planning algorithm to model economies of different sizes. Timings were performed on a 3 Ghz Intel Zeon running Linux, with 2 GB of memory. Industries Mean Inputs CPU Time Memory N M seconds bytes Law M = √ N 1,000 30 0.1 150KB 10,000 100 3.8 5MB 40,000 200 33.8 64MB 160,000 400 77.1 512MB 320,000 600 166.0 1.5G Law M ≈ log N 1,000 30 0.1 150KB 10,000 40 1.6 2.4MB 100,000 50 5.8 40MB 1,000,000 60 68.2 480MB • questioned Murphy’s requirement that planning requires pre-knowledge of all possible prices, • argued that the domain of prices to which planning is applied is in principle finite rather than infinite and that thus Cantor’s arguments are inapplicable, or at worst prices are countable, and Cantor’s arguments are applicable but irrelevant because there is no concievable requirement that this domain be closed under diagonalisation, • argued that planning over finite prices is tractable, • shown that diagonalisation is not applicable to prices or commodities, and • discussed how infinite structures of predominantly zero values may be given finite representations. In conclusion we have shown that Murphy’s arguments are ill founded. The computational feasibility of economic planning at a detailed level is an issue that must be investigated in its own right, and cannot be settled by appeal to Cantor. We have presented specific arguments that suggest that detailed planning is indeed feasible.
Owen Lewis
Isn't that already practically guaranteed under communism isn't the entire point of that system to keep everyone relatively the same?
Brandon Martin
Possibly. I haven't though about all the inter workings of a voucher based system yet and I haven't read all the theory.
Jaxson Ramirez
There's nothing about decentralized planning in any socialist idea. It's a vague claim with no links to any real idea. That's why you just threw that claim without explaining anything.
Putting papers and computers in different buildings is not decentralized planning. Socialist has only one will to appease, it's intrinsic central planning.
Adrian Lewis
It's more than a possibility it's practically guaranteed
Logan Allen
No. The point is to stop exploitation.
Christopher Sanchez
You delusional fuck, I already replied to you and attempted to talk to you a dozen times, except you don't reply.
Tell me, according to that paper: how do you know whether a good is worth its costs in a communist society? I'm willing to bet you are not going to reply to me, just like the previous 5 times.
>avoid a direct conversation to maintain your beliefs D E L U S I O N A L
Logan Hill
You say that like exploitation is a bad thing
Aiden Brooks
Putin shill who's trying to ruin the West by convincing millennials to fuck over their countries.
Brandon Torres
Imagine it like this. A decentralized communication network is formed between all the local town halls and all the factories. Then every week the people of one town get together in the town hall and write down what they need and they take out their labor vouchers and prove they did enough labor to be entitled to these things. Then the message is sent and the factory makes it and each worker gets some labor vouchers based on the labor they just did to make it. Then its shipped back to the town. decentralized planning.
Ayden Roberts
Also that's odd i was under the impression that communism was about equality and having a classless system where everyone is about the same with only minor deviation depending on circumstances
William Cooper
By the amount of labor that was put into it.
Nathaniel Perry
And how is that measured? Why didn't you elaborate? Oh, that's right, you are a delusional person who's literally making things up as you go along.
Juan Collins
Thats the eventual goal once post scarcity is reached but while in socialism and scarcity still exists then were fine with a meritocracy.
Lucas Kelly
So the total production of the nation go to a shared pool of voucher, that voucher get divided for the amount of population, and everyone get some. It's just a simplified version of money. You don't get the "full value of your labor" as you stated. Some works do not produce any utility, like research or bureaucratic paperwork for example. The people doing productive works get part of their value stolen by scientists and clerks. You may call with whatever name you like, but this is a tax.
>No inheritance Well, ok on this, too big sum of money should not be inherited but:
If my father worked to build a car, or a house, with his bare hand, because it was his own passion, he can't leave it to me. If my father raised some horses, or dogs, a very fine breed of animals, and all my family is very attached to these animals, he can't leave them to me. If my father built a garden, a beautiful garden with all kind of rare flowers, as his hobbies, out of work, he can't leave it to me. That suck.
Ryan Young
Aren't we already in a quasi meritocracy being the only difference is that we recognize an individuals right to give their kin and line a better position in society?
Ryan Gutierrez
The overwhelming majority of things you wrote are irrelevant, and nothing you wrote answers anything.
>write down what they need and they take out their labor vouchers and prove they did enough labor to be entitled to these things
So, in your fantasy, you are assuming you already know the value of these labor vouches and the value of the commodities they want to purchase. And you didn't explain to me how did you get to that value. You didn't explain the only thing you had to explain.
Kayden Baker
Value is all ready subjective in capitalism. In socialism its just made up.
