Was there a worse idea for a country than Austrian-Hungary?
>spoke multiple languages >consisted of many different ethnicities >two different kingdoms
Why was Austria so opposed to just joining Germany when it formed and just creating a large single German speaking union?
Is there any reason for Austria to be a seperate country today other than World War II treaties butchering Europe? Why did they just stop there instead of butchering Germany further and like forcing them to allow Bavaria to be an independent nation again or something?
dude, maybe a history book would help you until the mid-19th century the idea of an "ethnic state" wasn´t even born, completely different factors played a role - for example religion, marriage between houses, alliances etc.
why should the habsburgs have merged with germany and lose their inherit lands? the idea of making an alliance with the kingdom of hungary was the best "tactical" decision they could make, it secured the connection to the mediterranian, since austria didnt have much colonies they had to expand eastwards if they wanted to still be a power in europe. of course, then ww1 came and all those plans came to a halt. note that nationalism is a (historically) very very new idea, the old monarchs didnt think in this frame
Lucas Hall
>Was there a worse idea for a country than Austrian-Hungary?
Yugoslavia.
Charles Taylor
something I observed in the right wing youth, they always look into history from their perspective, mostly filled with 20th century ideology.
hence you get questions about why multi ethnic empires existed, why christian states allied with muslim states from time to time, why christians fight one another, why people converted to different religins to suit their whim, why europa was not united against the common enemy from orient
Gabriel Morris
what would have been the alternative in 1918? actually slovenes cheered for that state (even if it was a new monarchy with years-long military service dominated by serbia) to finally escape austrian rule. without shs not only the carinthian slovenes would have been germanized (after 1918) but also the rest (see nazi period). not to say that the shs state was any good, just without it slovenes wouldnt be where they are today. it was the first country in which they were a constitutional people
Noah Price
This.
Daniel Martinez
I already see this is going to be another Hungary vs Romania thread
Julian Nelson
yes, very true. the lack of education here is sometimes astounding.
Cooper Allen
>Why was Austria so opposed to just joining Germany when it formed and just creating a large single German speaking union?
This is not a hard thing to understand if you ever read anything about the history of Austria and Prussia
James Johnson
The nation was just gonna be Slovenes and Croat with a Serb minority. But failed to get recognition so it was sadly forced to Join in union with the kingdom of Serbia.
Anthony Garcia
I mean, even if you understand history it doesn't help that history was complete nonsense.
>multi ethnic empires existed >christian states allied with muslim states from time to time >christians fight one another >people converted to different religins to suit their whim >europa was not united against the common enemy from orient
Sure it made sense at the time because the people of the past were stupid, but looking from a modern perspective it's hard to comprehend the stupidity.
Brody Robinson
it was actually really great empire at that times our education system set it roots back then
Gavin Reyes
>people of the past were stupid >trump is president in the usa
if you think that your current point of view is the state of the art for generation to come you´ll be disappointed, kiddo
Gavin Powell
see and it failed to get recognition precisely because Serbs lobbied against it. In reality only libruls were pro-Yugoslavia, others just realised there's no other choice and went with it, very unwillingly.
Ask Croats how they feel about it, same as they felt in 1918. Horribly bad.
Eli Gray
it seems nonsensical/stupid to you because you do not know or do not bother to know how old ideologies, old ways of thinking, old morals, old values. You look only from a modern perspective and thats why it seems confusing to you.
very similar to say 'I do not understand why moral philosophers endorsed slavery' when it comes to ancient greek etc
old people were not stupid, their values were different, and conditions that they were in were different.
Brayden Roberts
Are you telling me Serbs ruined this neat looking state because they wanted to be with Serbia. Cunts.
Angel Perry
Jesus Christ, go read a fucking book.
Luke Rivera
i would be so on fucking board with this.
David Hernandez
Why may I ask? You are a Serb, right?
Joshua Torres
The first conquering of Carinthia for Slovene lands was completely in the hands of Slovene volunteers, and was celebrated by Slovenian majority in Carinthia.
From 1919 onwards, it was the Serbian army that entered, and it scared and intimidated the populace, just like how their migrants still do it in Slovenia to this day. It scared the traditionally European nation of Slovenes to the point where they went to the referendum in 1920 and unironically voted to remain in Austria.
And they made the right choice. Even today, if they were to vote on whether Carinthia would secede and join Slovenia, they would make the right choice by voting for Austria.
Because just like in 1919, we are being ruled by a mob of communists, Russian agents and Serb diaspora that has been subversive ever since independence in 1991, and there is no future in this country, for its people.
Blake White
>only liberals ok, please show me the društvo liberalnih slovencev or something - also this political stream did not exist back then. there were a fuckload of states that formed but were never recognised / had a very short span between 1918 - 195x, triest for example being one of them - without yugoslavia, slovenia wouldnt even have a glimpse of the primorska region it has now (look it up, it´s considered a "national shame" in italy still how they lost this territories to yugoslavia)
of course history wasn´t nice, especially on the balkans, but when was it really? point is, without yugoslavia, slovenes would be a minority somewhere, if even. look at carinthia, from 200.000 speakers to merely 15.000 now.
Zachary Baker
Serb minority and liberals. Once Serbs managed to bribe Mehmet Speho and the Muslim Bosniaks and get them onboard with the idea, that was also the end of internal struggle for independence of SHS state. The external struggle has been over same day Nikola Pašić gained access to Entente leadership.
Isaiah Nguyen
>I'm too stupid the view the world through anything other than my anachronistic looking glass, therefore everyone living in the past must have been stupid.
Hope you're baiting son, anything else is inexcusable
Landon Miller
The liberal party was called Narodna Napredna Stranka, it was finally serbophile in nature, but was politically marginalized by SLS, the catholic party, mainly because there was no such thing as Slavic bourgeoisie in ye olde Slovene Lands, and because liberals betrayed Slovenian cause and aligned themselves with German liberals in the Vienna parliament.
You're also implying I'd want Primorska. Those people are filthy subhumans and commies, fuck them. Slovenes always lived better as servants to a superior nation, but we've ended up paying bills of a bunch of inferior nations for a century, and now can't rule ourselves (because we're retarded peasants).
Jackson Wood
dude! carinthia was ALWAYS a stronghold of german nationalism/national socialism, if the serbs would have come or not, the idea was to brutally germanize this land. they voted for austria 1) out of economical reasons (celovec and beljak were more attractive/near marketplaces than ljubljana or kranj, dont forget the karavanke border), 2) cs the shs state was a monarchy and austria a republic (you didnt have to die for your fucking king) and 3), maybe most important, they were screwed - everything was promised, from schools, topographic signs, media etc., nothing was kept. arthur lemisch, first governor after the war, declared in his speech after the plebiscite to make all lost sould german again. for over 90 years there is a violent, rightwing, german-nationalist pressure, the fact that even 15.000 slovenes live there shows the will of these people not to break (after deportations, terror attacks, discreditations, broken promises...)
Angel Myers
Thanks for the information about SHS, Slovenebro. I've had a bit of an interest in the formation of the new states after WW1 but never knew why and how they formed. This has shed a bit of light upon SHS. Thanks.
Leo Perry
France could be explain in the exact same way before the revolution standardized everything.
Easton Wright
you´re right, i thought you meant that in the sense of modern liberalism (its sometimes hard here on pol). but yes, nns could be classified as (for then) liberal
and come on, without primorska you wouldnt have pršut, teran, refošk. great things
Bentley Watson
spliting was a mistake. should have gassed Masaryk
Grayson Collins
any multiethnic country a shit with one notable exception that is Switzerland which is rooted in freedom-loving peoples joined around a robust confederacy that benefits all of them
Kevin Gonzalez
...
Isaiah Stewart
You're welcome my dude, I'm graduated with a degree in history, so I always had exclusive access to and information I needed. In reality, this period in our history is really poorly researched.
William Powell
Was there a worse idea for a country than Austrian-Hungary?
>Belgium.
David Watson
One last question to you before I head from this thread. Do you think it would have split eventually (assuming it survived past WW2) and perhaps a peaceful split like Czechoslovakia?
Austin Thomas
AH was based you dumb nigger, the problem was we went too easy on the fucking subhumans in our country and also the hungarians
Logan King
it would have, if it wasnt for fucking nationalists on all sides (but to be honest mostly serbs, least slovenes who wanted to stay in the federation for as long as possible). the west had yuge plans for those coutries, the germans profited from the war, muricans were happy bombing etc.
in a nutshell, it wouldnt hadd to happen, serbs wanted it, the west wanted it, russia had own problems at the time. shit was fucked up
John Clark
That's very true.
But in reality, I'd advise Slovenes in there to just forget about their heritage. The political class in this country has betrayed them on every occasion, and will continue to do so. Right now, Carinthian Germans are about to re-write the state constitution in a manner that will forever delete the existence of Slovene language in the region, from existence.
Our politicians "strongly" "protest".
There's no point fighting it anymore.
Lincoln Sanchez
Federalisation would do wonders. Imagine america, but with this map. Also, bilingual regions where population is mixed (german bohemia....)
Juan Reed
It was definitely shit. But that goes for basically all monarchies
Hudson Green
You mean the kingdom? Yes, I'm fairly certain it would.
Kingdom of Yugoslavia had all sorts of internal and external foes and was largely reliant on alliance with France, as well as CZ-SK, Hungary and Romania to some extent, and these aren't reliable alliances.
Belgrade establishment wasn't able to even properly resist Bulgarian appetites for Macedonia and the VMRO movement, they wouldn't last a week if Croats suddenly decided they've had enough. And whatever Croats would do, Slovenes would follow them in as well.
Christian Rivera
>t-they have nothing to do with the modern eu, r-right guys?
Carson Ross
Prior to the 50s/60s Bavaria was a rural shithole
They only recently became more than a medium-tier German state in terms of importance, but behave like they've always been the cream of the crop. Nowadays Bavaria, BaWü and Hesse pay for the rest of Germany. However most Bavarians I met, genuinely believed that only they were paying for all other 15 states, and genuinely hugely overestimated their performance in certain fields, placement in rankings, importance, wealth etc. They're even more WE WUZ than ex-GDR people that call themselves "Prussians".
Jack Green
they actually wrote the slovene language in the constitution, the christian peoples´ party wanted to block it, even if the suggestion came from THEM - the topic was something completely else (the reorganisation of the governing system in carinthia), but they, as the parties there always did, wanted to distract the people with the minority once again.
now they found a compromise where for the first time, slovenes are actually mentioned in the constitution. after so many years, there is a governor who is kinda friendly towards the slovenes (kaiser), he even sent his son to the slovene gymnasium (he speaks it perfectly). but there are still so many idiots in this country, you cant even imagine. why slovenian nationalists cheer for the FPÖ i will never understand and yes, carinthian slovenes lack the support of slovenia, most people dont even know about them really. you are a solid exception
Aiden Cox
>muh russia >muh serbs
You have to be retarded to believe this shit in 2017 when the world is basically monopolized by Americans and their globalist puppetmasters.
Isaac Wilson
I'm the only Slovene poster on here that sees through that shit.
Why do you think you get so much "turk rape babies" crap from Slovenes? In reality most don't know anything about Bulgarians, they just know whatever Russian and Serb agents in our MSM tell them.
Caleb Sullivan
I would unironically consider being okay with this.
Robert Bailey
The modern EU is also stupid and shit though.
Lincoln Thomas
That's... very interesting, thank you so very much for this! I sadly didn't get the time to check any media sources on it, but I knew the whole thing was suspect, when the only party that actually put a stance against this measure at home were the far-left syriza-esque bloc.
Josiah Murphy
youre welcome, since i live here i maybe have more acces to things surrounding this. if you are sometimes up for a read about carinthian slovenes you can check volksgruppen.orf.at/slovenci (slovene state broadcast in austria, not the best, but it gives you a overview about the topics surrounding the minority - from politics to "who has the best salama in pliberk"). another one is novice.at/ , the slovenian newspaper, but it says that the paper is under reconstruction
actually the slovene rightwingers rarely stood up for the carinthian slovenes except of "greater slovenia" - banter from some panteri or some shit like this. not that the left does so much good, but at least the fundings for the minority were better.
Jace Price
They also live largely separated from each other and mostly don't speak each other's language. It's basically the most remote/mountainous parts of each culture, that sort of banded together. While not having that much in common in general, they experience the same isolation and peculiar environment, which is distinct from the rest of their native cultures. Also the French and Italian speaking Swiss take kind of a backseat, anyway.
Cameron Cox
what is your problem with the Fpö in the long run?
Arent all the other parties suicide parties?
Elijah Anderson
I'm pretty sure no one here would want that, since it would be just Austria paying for everyone else with no upsides for us
Juan King
being from the slovene minority in carinthia there is no reason at all why i should support them. slovenes live in that region for hundreds (some say for a thousand) years, all they want is to get rid of us. they say carinthia is german, they try to deny our rights to us (topograohical signs, school system, cultural funding), they never apologized for putting us in camps and deporting us, heck, they would do it again. on the other hand, they were in power quite a long time, now carinthia is the biggest mess of all regions in austria - they sold everything the country owned for very cheap, made billions of debts, biggest corruption scandals of modern austria, i could go on and on. whenever there was a problem in the country they blamed it on the slovene minority or foreigners. you cant even imagine how much they fucked up here. look it up, some they already imprisoned, now there is a huge trial where all the highest ranking fpö-politicians are accused of corruption. and it is not barely the end of it.
Landon Martin
I thought Bismarck never wanted Austria to be a part of the unification because it would challenge Prussia's dominance.
Michael Adams
It should exist once again.
But I don't think it ever will.
This was the only period in the history of Vojvodina when it was peaceful and prosperous.
Angel Jackson
Make Karantanija great again :P Rož Podjuna Zila in this thread, nice to see some historical knowledge in the board from time to time.
Leo Diaz
I’m from the minority as well, and I considered voting for the FPÖ candidate, since he was the only one not promoting multiculturalism (which equals islamization). But alas, I couldn’t, these people are incapable to run a country, they fucked up Carinthia hard, no reason to believe they would do better with Austria. Also, they already run the country in the 2000s and fucked up hard also on the topic of immigration.
Gavin Morris
haha, geil. še eden. skot pa si?
Aiden Lopez
>>spoke multiple languages >>consisted of many different ethnicities >>two different kingdoms
Oh shit
Josiah Martin
>a bunch of different Iberians pretending to be different and speaking slightly different dialects acting like they aren't all Spanish so they can be special snowflakes
Austria hungary is the reason why hungary and much of central europe is more developed than the balkans or eastern europe the germans are just better at anything so it was a good idea
Joshua Morris
Actually it's because we're genetically smarter, gypsy.
Xavier Robinson
We wuz Kaisers
Isaac Long
Živijo, take it from someone who grew up in this country, there was never anything positive from the fpö towards our minority. now, as they have a new enemy (migrants) they shift to them, but fact is that they still hate us. you cant imagine the comments and insults we had to go through just because we are who we are, since centuries. haider annoucned in newspapers "kärnten wird einsprachig" (koroška bo enojezična), strache, although they were enemies for a short tiem, praises him on every possible occasion.
they still hate us, but they hate the migrants more. once kebap is removed we are next.
Jason Jones
Well yeah, you can literally see quality of life differences depending on if your on the KuK side of Romania or not.
Nolan Reed
it's actually pretty clever
Carter Torres
Actually its because you are the rape kids of the germans nothing more Hell only like 10% of ur dna is still magyar you cuck
Tyler Nelson
This is a really shitty map.
Connor Anderson
So you're saying we're 90% German?Thanks for the compliment gypbro
Hunter Wright
so better mopve to hungary now! Nice
Sebastian Adams
>Nigger Mountain is dumber than Turkey
Holy shit.
Brandon Collins
saxons came to hungary in 1150. srsly guys where hungary is being mentioned there's no way Romanians dosen't come there to post some shit.
Aiden Rodriguez
>Was there a worse idea for a country than Austrian-Hungary? germany comes to mind
Logan Perry
AH is literally the scrub filter for history. If you can't fathom how AH came to be, you don't know shit about history.
Leo Ward
There is no nation so eternally assblasted than the Poles.
Jaxson Carter
Prmejduš I understand there's a Volksgruppengesetz in place that regulates the matter, don't know the details but perhaps point out some specifics of it and whether it's under siege
Benjamin Foster
Ever heard of the Austro-Prussian war?
Kayden Edwards
this
Brayden Cooper
btw how's that green energy going Austria
Ian Martin
Št. Jakob :) verjento sva soseda ajajaj
Juan Rodriguez
Well not just german but also slavs celts and whatever the fuck else pretty much the same as us exept we have daco roman ancestors instead of magyar
Hunter Nelson
Truth right here.
Joseph Butler
>hey still hate us, but they hate the migrants more. once kebap is removed we are next. You sound like paranoid Jews desu
Cameron Harris
No, you mean Poland, Untermensch
Gavin Moore
Daily reminder that the eternal spaghetti singlehandedly brought down Austria Hungary.
Landon Peterson
Hey...No you didn't.
Jordan Nguyen
Implying it wasn't the eternal Serb
Jordan Phillips
Nope
Justin Long
Why didn't you fight better in WW2? We could have had a restoration of the Roman Empire with Nazi flavour today instead of this shit show! FUUUUUUCK!
Austin Collins
> tfw most slovenes like the serbs > tfw carinthia will be part of slovenia forever
COME HOME SLAV MAN
Parker Sanchez
The empire was actually relatively stable before the war
Colton Clark
Read Mein Kampf, Hitler spends many paragraphs telling how much a retarded civic nationalist cancerous country this was and how it shat all over the Austrians who made it. Really makes you think....
Benjamin Hernandez
Hitler was an equivalent of a neet shitposting on an anime forum about things he doesnt understand. Its awfuly appropriate you condiser his """"opinions""""" as relevant.
Michael Lee
...
Mason Morales
The Habsburg's Empire lasted for 400 years. Hitler's Reich lasted for 7. I'm sure his opinion matters.
Jason Martin
Best part, if that idiot of gaurilo didn't heroed, that would be the future. It was proposed by group of scholars gathered around prince Franz Ferdinand Google United states of greater Austria.