It seems to me that debt-based central banking creates far more "value" than physical labor in the US today.
Also, Internet firms like Facebook and Google have very small work forces, yet are worth billions. Most of their revenue comes from advertising, which is only contingent on the labor of its employees to a relatively small extent.
Am I missing something here?
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
en.wikipedia.org
en.wikipedia.org
twitter.com
You can't convert yards of fabric into cords of wood.
The Labour Theory of Value is wrong because it is based in its entirety on the false assumption that 'value' can be objectively quantified
Because growing interests.
/thread
how does marx's LTV compare to smith or ricardo's LTV?
It's an interesting theory, and I found it the most interesting part of his work. But it has the following major flaws:
1) it doesn't account for naturally rare things like gold, which you may find a lot of for relatively little labor if you're lucky.
2) it's very hard to compare labor to labor, because one man's 4 hours may have been much more productive than another man's. If you value the output the same, then the effort put in will rachet down too.
3) who will verify the time put into something's production?
Because digging a ditch and then filling it in has no value even though you put labor into it. Things only have the subjective value than people are willing to pay for them.
because 'value' is a subjective thing, not some kind of objective measure that can be abstractly calculated
basically marx had some good ideas but was just another autistic jew who was too disconnected from real life and his ideas ended up being used in really unfortunate ways
OK, but that generally occurs today because private banks are able to borrow money from a central bank at low interest and loan it out again at high interest. Also, fractional-reserve lending.
Am I correct that the LTV does nothing to explain the phenomenon of fiat currency?
there is no ltv
If Marx is SOOO bad name a better economist
Right-wing stooges only seem to know about Ayn Rand, and she's obviously pretty fucking retarded
You forgot to add that he was also a failed father
communism only works inside a family structure, outside of it, it collapses
>Most of their revenue comes from advertising
= sold products = paid by worker wages
inb4 the goyim deserve no private proverty, they are just worker slaves, (((we))) centrally plan everyting
inb4 Communism was invented, and paid 4 by jews
inb4 pure cohencidence...
>If Marx is SOOO bad name a better economist
Isn't Marx obsolete when applied to a post-industrial economy based on debt and digitization largely removed from the physical realm?
ludwig von mises
Must be bait, since Ayn Rand wasn't an economist.
But even Keynes was better than Marx. And of course, Smith did really solid, if introductory, work. Milton Friedman will be a popular one here, better than Keynes.
Right, Mises and Hayek are also good.
>= sold products = paid by worker wages
So are you saying that one company is also responsible for the "exploitation" of workers in other, unrelated companies? Did Marx ever say that?
Gottfried Feder
Japan is currently using his model now.
rekt
Fan Li was unusual among tycoons for his view of money. He believed that one who understood money would be willing to abandon it if it became a burden. It is only a means to an end and should not be taken too seriously. Nonetheless, it must be handled and acquired according to principles. Fan Li also urged a somewhat loose construction of these principles, encouraging broad and flexible utilization in various situations.
The Twelve Golden Rules are as follows:
>Ability to know people's character. You must perceive evidence of characteristics from experience.
>Ability to handle people. Never prejudge a prospect.
>Ability to stay focused on the business. Have a definite focus in life and business and avoid jumping around.
>Ability to be organized. A disorganized presentation is unappealing.
>Ability to be adaptable. Make sure you are organized enough to respond quickly.
>Ability to control credit. Do not allow nonpayment. Make sure you collect what is owed.
>Ability to use and deploy people. Use employees in ways which bring out their potential(s).
>Ability to articulate and market. You must be able to educate customers on the value of goods.
>Ability to excel in purchasing. Use your best judgement in acquiring stock.
>Ability to analyze market opportunities and threats. Know what is selling according to areas and trends.
>Ability to lead by example. Have definite rules and standards. Make sure they are followed to ensure good relations.
>Ability to have business foresight. Know market trends and cycles.
>The Twelve Golden Safeguards are:
>Don't be stingy. Never confuse efficiency with inhumanity.
>Don't be wishy-washy. Be confident in pursuing opportunities. Time is of the essence.
>Don't be ostentatious. Do not overspend in order to make an impression.
>Don't be dishonest. Truth is the only basis for business. Without it someone will get hurt.
>Don't be slow in debt collection. Without collections, liquidity is affected.
>Don't slash prices arbitrarily. This will only trigger a price war in which everyone will lose.
>Don't give in to herd instinct. Make sure the opportunities are real and not part of a craze.
>Don't work against the business cycle. When things fall in price, they will then rise and vice versa.
>Don't be a stick-in-the-mud. Keep up with things and make progress. Examine new things objectively.
>Don't overbuy on credit. Credit is not license to spend wildly.
>Don't under-save (keep reserve funds strong). When business is slow, one with money can expand while others close.
>Don't blindly endorse a product. Make sure your vendors are still following standard operating procedure.
>author and a journalist
>not a job
It's not that hard
>lived as a nigger
>worked like a nigger
>thought like a nigger
>wrote like a nigger
>nigger inspires niggers to be niggers
Marx didn't invent the theory that labor is value. It's obvious to anyone who isn't a kike reliant on usury.
Marx is a coordinated disinformation campaign by the oligarchy.
The working class is impoverished by usury. Return on rent seeking above economic growth rates requires that the poorly capitalized become even more poorly capitalized.
Without fractional reserve debt systems, the only way to make money is to invest capital in productive rather than rent seeking capacity - debt / loans.
That forces employment to its limits and endows the workers with negotiating power, undoing the premise that the workers will become increasingly marginalized.
TL;DR convoluted bullshit to keep your eyes away from the real problem, the usury class, who are not real capitalists at all
>Acknowledging journalism as a whole a work
>"I wrote shit and sold it, that makes it true"
> the usury class, who are not real capitalists at all
lol capitalism is literally state sponsored usury
Thanks, so you agree with my original point about debt-based central banking having little or nothing to do with the LTV as formulated by Marx?
HANS-HERMANN HOPPE
No. Fractional reserve debt systems are not capitalism. Fractional reserve banks are not capitalized: if everyone showed up to get their money, the game is over. There is no capital there.
Usury is marxist. It is enabled only by social constructs. Socialists, commies, and bankers all belong in the same boat.
The LTV is only (superficially) relevant in debt economies. It is completely retarded and irrelevant in capitalist societies. In debt societies, the consequences but not the causes are accurately described.
Marx is lightweight shit for third graders. If you are an adult and give him any credence you are fucking retarded.
Basically, because it assumes that a good has ANY value at all.
Value is not a noun, it is a verb.
We value things, and we can increase their value to other people, but there is no quantifiable value that you can put on something.
The theory does account for competition in a certain sense, but it assumes long run price stability, which we know is false because the futures market exists.
The other mistake it makes is that it assumes that labor-saving devices don't exist. From a marxist perspective, when you make a hammer, it is useful, but only as useful as the labor put into it. He assumes the labor is constant, and can't be saved. So from his perspective, all that happened was that labor was moved into the hammer, then the value added from the hammer to whatever else was made.
Keep in mind that the odds that Marx believed his own bullshit are very low. He even admitted that political theories are made up to serve the interests of the authot.
You're fucking retarded. usury is making money which is sterile fertile. it's using money to make money, the worst example being compound interest.
Marxism is Sodomy.
Labor value theory can't even explain money. Not that it's supposed to, it is just one theory after all. But all the same, Marx didn't even get his economic analysis right, and certainly not his political analysis.
He was the equivalent of a salon or huffpo "writer"
If you want to understand how the american economy runs, let me give you the quick rundown.
The Fed controls the world reserve currency, and the military backs them up. Basically the world's biggest extortion racket.
Now, since the only people in the world who can hit the US govt. are americans, we all get paid off. Ironically, it's actually almost impossible to be actually productive, because a 40% tax rate extracts almost all value from the system immediately. But we get a payout, if not in the form of a govt. check, then from doing a useless job that the govt. has set up for us.
Because of this, we have way too much money as a country (european money is also overvalued, but you are basically direct american subjects). So we can't export. Which is good, because if we could export then even more money would come back, and other countries might realize that they're getting a raw deal. So it's a fucked system, and it's entirely politically motivated, which is the worst possible way to run an economy.
What about the Internet economy? Economies of scale are are radically multiplied by its global reach. A dozen "workers" in Silicon Valley can generate billions of dollars for a company if they play their cards right. The great share of the company's "value" seems to derive from the characteristics of the Internet, as opposed to the actual "value" of those workers' labor.
>Also, Internet firms like Facebook and Google have very small work forces, yet are worth billions. Most of their revenue comes from advertising, which is only contingent on the labor of its employees to a relatively small extent.
Thats on the internet and yes, you dont need a lot of people to run servers and maintain them and code only a select few
They get money from ads and how much people click on their site
What happens when the petrodollar collapses, say because green energy renders fossil fuels obsolete, and the rest of the world calls in its holdings of US debt?
Or what if China becomes so powerful that the RMB replaces the US dollar as the global reserve currency?
How long can the current Ponzi scheme continue?
Autist
But the "labor" from those ads come from the companies that advertise, not the Internet firms themselves (i.e., those that host the online ads).
>all applications of his theory have ended in mass murder
yeah because it was always a forced top-down approach whereas marx said it would be a natural uprising from the masses i.e bottom-up
muh free market kapituhlizims are so low iq it's honestly annoying having to read their thoughts
The U.S. dollar will always be king. Go buy Chinese commiebucks if you prefer.
>He believed that one who understood money would be willing to abandon it if it became a burden.
Likewise, if the economy in the United States tanked so bad that we we're at weimar republic levels of poverty, there would be no doubt a movement like that of national socialist germany where we through out the banks and issued labor certificates.