I wonder if Sup Forums can solve this thought experiment

I wonder if Sup Forums can solve this thought experiment.

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youtube.com/watch?v=HvYjApa01bk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_basis_of_self
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(((SWAMP PEOPLE)))) won't trick me.

can he still be considered white?

Well yes because his neural states have been restored.

>Combining your genes with literal mud
>Still the same

Your racemix propaganda can't touch me, dirty jew

He has been blessed by the power of true conservatism.

When I located the fabled Atlantigated, I too had undergone such an enlightenment. Now I can manipulate the dimensions, and I am currently teaching Bahrron Trump the forbidden techniques of the Zodiac.

With the Bogdahnoffs on our side, nothing can stop us from obtaining the mythical Galactigates.

Are you the same person as the one who went to sleep the night before when you wake up the next morning?

This is just a poorly disguised version of the thought experiment regarding Star Trek's transporter, and no one has the answer unless they understood fully the nature of the soul (or lack thereof)

t. swampman

No, he will not recognise his friends or family.
Why?
Because the belief that simple arrangement of particles can invoke memory is a physicalist belief, and physicalism is wrong.
idealism takes primacy.

thats fucking retarded

If it's exactly his neural state then yes. This isn't much of a thought experiment bruh. The difference is now he is mudman. Destroyer of worlds.

I took a totally degenerate and incestuous philosophy course that was all about this at the Uni of Edinburgh last year.

basically it comes down to the psychological or physical criterion.

Also must be kept in mind is substance dualism, which if we accept that his actual "mind" which might be seen as his "soul" is separate from any physical attributes he has.

basically its all gay bullshit that doesn't answer anything and only serves to justify the work for """"""""""tens""""""" of philosophy teachers who teach this to there soon to be unemployed students.

I personally dont think he would recognise his family as he is different fundamentally from his predecessor in that realm of "non substance" descarte talked about.

Im in my second year BTW studying Politcs AMA about university degeneracy i guess.

retarded.

It sounds more like a shitty superhero comic than a thought experiment

Why do you think there's any non material "mind" involved?

Consciousness is the definition of a person, a person is always shedding skin, breaking and recreating dna and replace withered cells with new cells, none of your body is the same as the ones you were born with, if his neural state remains, then so does he

This stuff is frightening to think about and is likely to cause existential crisis when you do, it's best just to not think about it

Depends, for a materialist there wouldn't be difference, but if you believe in spirit then there would be difference

>physicalism
Doesn't have to diminish your idealism. If anything it makes it much more important to find meaning in our world and pursue our ideals.

youtube.com/watch?v=HvYjApa01bk

Sorry Dahnald, you don't hold the republican majority anymore.

Lightening can't strike in the same place twice, so this is impossible. Now, if a more reasonable scenario such as if two toasters fell into the swamp and created a swamp man, then we can have this discussion. But lightning striking in the same place twice is just ridiculous

There's no difference. Hardly a thought experiment.

hint:
it's not USA

I am generally a proponent of Descartes substance dualism as i said.

Its the whole " I think therefore I am" think

basically i can deny my body and my environment exist but i cant deny "I" (my mind) exist.

a big problem about modern philosophy regarding it is that it regards it as just a form of modern enlightenment philosophy.

In reality its mostly a theological argument.

half of Descartes proof for it is about the other half apart from "you cannot deny you yourself exist" which is "you cannot deny God exists"


which opens up into a entirely different argument about the existence of God.

However if we are discussing the theory itself on its own merits, trying to show internal disconnect, we must accept its premises and work from there.

Trying to argue against dualism with the time honoured methods of causation and some of the more common lay man arguments totally ignore this important factor.

I wrote a whole paper about this last year.
basically substance dualism is just as much theology as it is secular philosophy and pretending its not is just straw manning.

monist idealism is the truth you fucking plebs. quit all this talk about physicalism and dualism.
how the fuck do you ever plan on defeating the eternal jew if you can't even acknowledge that the jews themselves are merely the earthly agitators of the demiurge?

i don't think you know what i'm talking about.

The premise is false because Trump will have drained the swamp first

>Lightening can't strike in the same place twice
This is nonsense. It's just unlikely that it would strike at the same place twice. But it's not more unlikely to strike at the same place as any other place. You can actually assume it to be somewhat more likely since this is probably a slightly better conducting path for it.
And it striking twice at the same place is much, much more likely than it rearranging the particles to recreate a person anyway.

>breaking and recreating dna and replace withered cells with new cells
>"I don't understand cell division: the post"

> basically i can deny my body and my environment exist but i cant deny "I" (my mind) exist.

My response IRL would be to put my hands around your neck and start strangling you.

After you're gasping for air, you'll have to concede that you do exist in physical reality, and you need to breathe.

I don't get how this isn't just wank.

I remember this comic. It's the origin story of Argentina-Man.

This is Alan Moore's run of Swamp Thing.

It completely negates the non physical part of a person. The "soul" if you will.
The material perspective falsely implies that the consciousness is generated by the brain

our brains merely act as receivers

They will hear them speak

If our cells replicated without other cells dying, your whole body would be a cancer

This is not scholarship or science. There is no reason to reject the answer that the man is identified immediately or accepted unquestionably by the same Bad Author Power that provided the teleportation-lightning. Furthermore, this isn't even fantasy, because you end up in the same place.

no you can't recreate memories

they took a valid philosophical question about consciousness and diluded it into dumbass "will be recognize his family" bullshit, nah swamp-people are the lowest tier of shitskins

>basically i can deny my body and my environment exist
why dose cartesian dualism even exist, why did he find it so difficult to make the leap to monist idealism?

i should never accepted the pharmaceutical jew, those mind altering drugs. the cognitive dissonance is real. how can this seemingly material substance, alter my mind and perception so much? surely that is an argument for cartesian dualism.
but at the same time, they kept me in a constant state of derealization,

shit.
it's happened again

>Colombian
>Valuable genetics

kys

That's shittily phrased: "IS EXACTLY THIS MAN"

Is it the same man? Yes, you baked that in as a premise - IS EXACTLY THIS MAN. Of course he would do all the same things because your premise is that it IS EXACTLY THIS MAN.

well like i said read Descartes's proof

basically he says that somehow there could be some mad scientist or, in his words devil that could be deceiving all your senses to make you believe everything around you

basically you brain is in some bottle somewhere being fed information

so in your case you throttling me isnt real, but since my brain and, mind are fed that info i believe it.

the point of this is not making the actual argument that "everything is an illusion spook" only that it is "conceivable" under extenuating circumstances that it maybe 1% chance could be.

whereas the mind, you cannot be denied by simple logic since you "think therefore you are" or must be

because of this key difference in conception you must be different " substances" as Descartes up it. Basically there must be something fundamentally different between what you could possibly deny and what is impossible to deny (ie to Descartes the mind (you/soul and then God, which is the part people forget )

I am not a wholehearted believer in the proof personally, i just think its studied wrong.

You point is not invalid, and opens up a totally different discussion about survival and its validity to our mind, so thats cool, thanks

your brain isn't somewhere remote, being fed sensory information.
your sense of self, your sense of "I" isn't even contained in a brain, it's not contained in any material vessel.
it's all spiritual deception.
it's the demiurge dude, it's the fucking demiurge, that's what is keeping us penned up in this illusory material "reality", as soul chattel.
i'll be honest mate i'm dissociating right now.

Existence is a process. An action, an event, a movement.

The man ceases to exist. Another is created in his place, but the original is gone.

The question now is weather there's any difference in their value from the perspective of his family.

If they know he's a copy, will they still accept him?
He's a perfect copy, he's just like the original and acts and thinks in the same way.
He hugs his kids the same and greets the neighbors the same. He'll probably meet the same end as the original, but he's clearly another being.

so in a sort of roundabout way what you are talking about is Causation. A classic issue for Dualism

basically how does the mind exactly affect the material and the other way around possibly?

as far as monist idealism that deals with the entirely different school of realism and its relationship.

I personally don't find it all totally invalid.

honestly i dont even find it necessarily contradictory to dualism with its emphasis on consciousness.

yeah mind altering drugs are a touch and go thing.

I personally have experimented with lots of things but never allowed myself to lose base.

personally it comes down to will and confidence honestly.

Truth/Beauty/ Justice are one thing and nothing will change them

yeah thats what dualism sort of says!

that the "I" is not contained in any physical substance

thats why descarte says its a totally difference "substance" (as opposed to the unsubstance of the mind)

Christ on a fucking cracker I'm glad someone else noticed. It's shameful it took this long for someone to mention it.

>your sense of self, your sense of "I" isn't even contained in a brain, it's not contained in any material vessel.

But it IS contained in the brain.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_basis_of_self

when two men download via torrent a show, they're two exact copies of the same show

they both watch it, one of the men likes it and the other not so much, but it's still the same show

this is super simple stuff

it's an illusion.

Why does this thought experiment take place in a SWAMP

>including his neural state

The question is answered in the question..

The prefrontal cortex is not an illusion. Neither is life.

If you are absolutely convinced that it is, seek help immediately.

SINCE SWAMPMAN WAS NATIVE BORN ON OUR SOIL, HE CAN STAY.

fuck off kike
you cannot even prove the prefrontal cortex is real.
you can't!
you can prove that it is logically and empirically consistent with the rest of the material "reality" which you experience, but you cannot prove that any of that is real either.

>muh impossible silly question that purely exist to temporarily confuse some people and is somehow considered "philosophical"

underrated post

It would be interesting to see more threads like this.

Ever heard of derealization disorder?
Well, I wouldn't go that far in your case.

But let's look at it another way.
Can you prove that it isn't real?
Right now, you and I have information from the world(real or fake), flowing into our heads.
There's no real proof that it's false. We can't find any even if we look.

you came forward saying this isn't real but why are you saying that?

...

Assuming the transfer of molecular and neural structures are instantaneous, I would think that this man would be in a great deal of pain and would be considered a psychological deviant for the rest of his life for claiming that lightning teleported him into the middle of a fucking swamp.

The only true answer to the swampman question is for him to hide the original thunder-struck corpse before returning home and wipe any lines of communication that might implicate his strong sexual relations with Raiden from Mortal Kombat. As we all know, inter-dimensional ass-rape brutalities are quite possible so it would be best for swampman to cut his ties with the likes of Static Shock and any other lightning slinging minorities.


Thank you for your time.

"When Swampman goes home..."

He is home, where his molecules were arranged.

Similar arrangements were made in D.C.

>you came forward saying this isn't real but why are you saying that?
Because people need to understand that attachment to the seeming reality of the physical world, is what keeps them enslaved.

Also yes, I have legitimately experienced derealization for prolonged periods of time in my life after I was tricked into taking psychopharmaceuticals.

You need to understand what I mean when I say none of this is real. Of course it's real in a sense of the word, but it is without substance. The mind and the experience of this seeming material reality, is what takes primacy, not the other way around.
We simply find ourselves here, bound by the need for empirical consistency for this illusory material reality to exist.

You act as if I am a nutter and yet you have not a single inkling of a proof for how a subjective, conscious perspective, a sense of self, a sense of "I" could arise from the material world.

BANE?

But there is still a corpse of him laying next to the swamp.

I would assume that walking home naked smothered in mud would implicate that individual with nefarious activities if a doppelganger were to be found on the eve of his naked stroll near the swamp lands.

>b-b-b-but lightning relocated my entire molecular structure and reformed it through a swamp crucible that released my new body into the wilderness
>yes, much like a miraculous re-conception

I think it's the other way round.

The mind doesn't really exist. Our sense of self is the illusion.

you're a fucking faggot

Memory is part of the neural state. Man 2 is not man 1 despite being identical. Man 2 has man 1 memories and should act accordingly.

Good thread

gotem

How the fuck is this politics?

>Lightening can't strike in the same place twice,
Lightning rods beg to differ

I was arguing with a friend that God exists by using philosophy. He couldn't understand being unable to fathom god and the fragility of reality.

He would have no memory therefore he would be like a new born baby unable to swim. He would drown and never make it home. In fact he wouldn't even know where he lived!

>good thread
>same memory
>act accordingly
There is a fucking corpse near the swamp nobody is acknowledging.

How would you explain to your wife and the police that despite being in the obituaries, your naked mud walk down by the bloating rotten man in the swamp was actually just a thunderous molecular transportation of the self into an entirely parallel entity?

Totally. And eventually swamp thing figures out he isn't alex whatever his name is, and that he's a plant elemental. I guess John Constantine tells him, just to fuck with his plant mind.

>Will he recognize friends and family
Of courshe, information is in his brains if he's recreated the exact same. But I don't think there would be a continiuty of conscious experience as there is a fundamental break in the consciousness and so the real him is dead and gone and not experiencing anymore, altough I suppose the real me an hour ago is dead and gone and not still experiencing too, but I have the illusion of continuity due to the continuous progress of memories.

Let's rearrange the problem in very different configurations to find out where you stand on the self problem

A man goes hiking near a swamp and suddenly finds himself neck deep in the swamp. A corpse of his former self lies somewhere near the swamp, killed by a lightning strike. He goes back home.

A man finds himself neck deep in a swamp. He was somewhere else near the swamp moments earlier. A corpse much identical to him lies somewhere lies there, killed by a lightning strike. He goes back home.

A man is brought to existence by a lightning strike in a swamp. A corpse of what is the exact man lies near the swamp, dead, killed by another lightning strike.

Some dumbfuck goes hiking in a swamp and dies. God doesn't want his suffering to end so he makes a copy of him at the very instant of his death and puts him into a thought experiment and laughs.

A thought experiment goes hiking near a swamp and is killed by lightning. By extraordinary coincidence, another stroke of lightning in the swamp nearby arranges words in such a way that it is exactly this thought experiment, including its illustrations. When swamp experiment goes back home, he will behave just as the original did, but is there nevertheless a difference? Will the solutions still apply?

Underrated

no, you cannot recreate neural states, and they differ from person to person.

The rate and relation of neural actuation is a chemical process, not an electrical one.

>it is exactly this man
>is there nevertheless a difference?

Obviously not.

is he shrek?

>rearranges molecules
this is too vague, does it apply only to the external appearance? if the arrangement includes the whole body with all organs and the brain, then yes since neurons are made of molecules and neurons are what constitutes our memories.

fast decomposition of corpses
this means that it's harder to find the body, which is implicitly part of the problem here

This shit impossible and ridicule "experiment" sure does is politics.

Stop posting in slide threads.

Take one complete deck of cards in order, Ace through king, for all four suits
Build a house of cards by taking one card off the top of the deck at a time.
Collapse the entire thing
Put the cards back into a deck in exactly the same order as the first time
Build the house again in the exact same way with each card in the same place again

Is it the same house of cards?