Did Japan ACTUALLY sue for surrender before the nukes?

Molymeme got triggered in that hiroshima video and kept repeating that, but I can't find any credible source on that. Literally one quote from one guy is all I can find.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Red_Scare
doug-long.com/hst.htm
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

nips learned their lesson. Now they know who is their best friend.

The Japanese tried to communicate with back channels and seceret agents to try and sue for peace. This did this because they didnt want to make it seem like they were giving up..also they wanted the emporer to stay in power.

So they did it to themselves. They spent a few days dicking around trying to save face and two cities got leveled... If they had gone through proper methods it would have worked.

Moly-jew is a rhetoric spouting ideologue at this point. He treated that caller (who was pretty well informed) like shit, in order to shoehorn his obviously incorrect ideas onto his viewers.

these three are simpletons. they surrendered two weeks before they were dropped but the allies wanted to set an example for the soviets. this is taught everywhere except apparently burgerland and bongistan

I always read that they were thinking about it but never did anything obvious. Is this one of those videos where Molymeme dramatizes a situation and then starts crying?

>You didn't get indoctrinated by leaf propaganda
>This makes you look bad

Try again, leafcuck.


Next tell us about how the 2nd amendment prescribes gun control.

>August 6th: Little Boy dropped on Hiroshima
>August 9th: Fat Man dropped on Nagasaki; Soviet Invasion of Manchuria begins
>August 15th: Emperor orders unconditional surrender
>August 20th: Remaining Kwantung Army forces surrender to the Soviets


So objectively speaking, Non-argument man is wrong.

no. i am anti gun control and very pro trump. americans are just unfortunately so easily tricked again and again into lauding their crimes. vietnam, iraq, etc. you have been at war for 300 years

>americans are just unfortunately so easily tricked again and again into lauding their crimes.

You say we're easily tricked.... But trump is elected.

There's no such thing as a crime in a real war. Crimes are things that can only exist where there is peace.

Most americans understand what america is.... Better than you know. But even so, America is still the greatest country there is.

Nah he just treated a caller who didn't know too much pretty badly. Unsettled me a bit desu

Why did Japan and Germany pick so many shitty fights?

I believe japan attacked because we embargoed them and they thought they could knick out the navy in one go.

Okay buddy.
>muh evil empire
Do they actually teach you cuckoldry in sex ed in Canada?

>but trump is elected
you ARE easily tricked. ww2 and vietnam and iraq have all already happened back to back and have been lauded in the exact same way nothing is learned. you pay for all this with your taxes the great comfort you are missing is invisible to you..

you played the wrong side in ww2 the 50s could have lasted a whole lot longer before they moved from germany to new york. you have taken a huge nose dive in all the same directions as germany did, the collapse they created in 2008 with bush is coming again but a hundred times stronger with obama's mistakes...

A

look at the state of england today. haha a leaf very funny. you sent the world in this downward spiral 80 years ago and we will soon be at the bottom of it

>it was everyone I disagree withs fault
Kek

>you sent the world in this downward spiral 80 years ago
Fuck, thats right. I forgot that Britain forced hitler to start his land grabs. The poles and french invited him in, didn't they. Us evil Brits should have just sat back till they owned the continent. Fucking storm-tard

he's an intellectual elite. and I dont mean what I'm about to say to hate on him, I think He's great.

He has a very serious flaw in his expectations for his show where he brings people on and treats them as his intelectual equal, when they are not. Then he gets mad at them when they say stupid shit, which they must because they are normies.

He has the same fundamental issue in UPB where he assumes the eqality of two people to be inherent and does not attempt to justify it. Which doesnt necessarily kill UPB it just means that it doesnt stand on its own it supliments some other dogmatic based pragmatism that provides a inherent equality.

>you played the wrong side in ww2 the 50s could have lasted a whole lot longer before they moved from germany to new york.

The 50's wouldn't have existed for us had the war not played out the way it did.

You're talking out of your ass.

Obama made mistakes. We all know that. That was the platform trump ran on, and he won. The fact that trump won shits on the idea you're trying to pass as truth here.

The only reason canada doesn't have anything to criticize is because it's an irrelevant country. You faggots don't do anything but complain.

Yes

> Poland dindu nuffin
> except killing and raping ethnic Germans in Danzig
Fuck off beady

>there is no such thing as crime in real war
what is the Geneva convention?

Don't blame us because you're too much of a pussy to stand up for your own countries. This is why you're becoming muslim you fucking idiots. This is like race-baiting, but nation-baiting. You're a fucking fool, and you're being used.

you beat them twice and the whole UKs economy is smaller than just germanys, nevermind the other pieces of the reich. they lead the EU which you will be leaving. they own the continent anyway. the siphoning of your resources, and the US' are the symptom of letting these people run your country. and of course letting coloureds rape your children. especially in england.

i was just clearing something for the op. i'm not on a high horse, my nation is a war criminal as well

No.

They were warned first and there was even an attempted military coup against the emperor after he called for surrender following Nagasaki.

Their leadership knew most of them were in deep shit for war crimes so they were willing to seppuku their own country rather than give themselves up.

They didn't officially surrender until after we fire bombed them after the nukes. They almost didn't sign on the mighty mo. They wanted terms other than unconditional which wasn't going to happen. That is literally all that matters. Unless they were going to unconditional surrender we were going to keep bombing.

the US had been the major centre of the industrialized world for decades, it peaked shortly after the war and then immediately started declining with marxist policies 60s onward. the war creating the 50s from nothing is preposterous.

>what is the Geneva convention?
It's a load of bullshit.

The only international law is the one that the relevant, powerful countries wish to enforce on a particular day.

>a few ethnic germans raped
>starts war resulting in millions of germans dead and raped
>b-but hitler wuz a gud boi.

>war creating the 50s from nothing is preposterous.

We were one of the only developed countries left that had functioning factories. There was huge demand for our services.

i'm completely lost, i've re-read and still don't know what you're talking about. the usa is slated to be minority coloured soon, not canada.

If not for the Americans and Soviets we wouldn't have one. Thank god that Churchill had the sense to fight Germany in a two-front war, instead of surrendering Europe to hitler.

the emperor and a few higher ups wanted to surrender unconditionally but the majority of the top tier generals didnt. they were OK with surrendering but they not a total one. there were overtures but no official request for unconditional surrender.

America dropped the nukes to show off to Russia.

No. Japan was debating surrender or Sudoku. Surrender was dominant but it was not decided.

Japan surrendered because the Soviets were about to annex Hokkaido, like they did with Sakhalin, a former "home island".
The atom bomb conspiracy theory (pushed by the west) is retarded. They didn't care for firebombing for 4 years, they wouldn't suddenly start caring.

They were not accepting unconditional surrender and some of the requests just came from the captains not the main land.

The main land did send a cease fire/surrender notice but it had the stipulation that the US fuck back a bit

>two countries at war, during world war 2 no less
>one threatens to sue the other one if they dont get peace

u wot m7?

this burger gets it

this

Is that why the Emperor mentioned the Soviets in his surrender speech?

Oh wait, he didn't.

Eat shit, swiss cheese.

i'm out, but if anyone including op is still in doubt

> "I was against it on two counts. First, the Japanese were ready to surrender, and it wasn't necessary to hit them with that awful thing. Second, I hated to see our country be the first to use such a weapon."
[Dwight Eisenhower] On his stated opposition to the use of the atomic bomb against the Japanese at the end of World War II, as quoted in Newsweek (11 November 1963), p. 107

they wanted peace, but without total surrender and occupation.

They wanted to surrender on their own terms. We weren't going to allow that.

>my nation is a war criminal as well

It's possible, but it probably wouldn't have been done specifically to avoid nuclear attack. I mean, Stalin knew about the bomb so the USSR could conceivably have communicated that to Japan, but Japan surrendered because the Red Army invaded Manchuria on August 9 as Stalin had promised, not because of the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

What are you talking about? They were all chummy with the communists just weeks before. The U.S. only did this because they actually wanted to test it on a civilization.

Anime?

...

nukes are a hoax, Japan was fire bombed

>They were all chummy with the communists just weeks before

Not really, in 1917 allies, including the US sent troops and supplies to snuff out the Communists but this lacked support back home. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allied_intervention_in_the_Russian_Civil_War

The Russians were actively spying against us because Stalin was paranoid as fuck and we weren't nearly as close with them as we were with the British en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_and_Ethel_Rosenberg.

Don't americans learn history? Japan offered negotiated surrender several times, and the allies refused as they wanted a complete surrender. When the USSR started invading Jap islands, the US dropped the A-bombs and ended the war.

Are you stefan? Your show has become garbage. Stick to your 'truth about' videos

calm your shit. I support the US action and decision to drop the bombs, lest the USSR get a jump on the jap land invasion and split the country in two as they did in Germany.

Japan was in fact ready to surrender BUT not without at least one good defensive action to inflict high casualties to US forces.

Japan Imperial Gaurd was 2 million strong on the homeland with another 2 million withdrawing from China. Well supplied and armed. Japan decided to put its remaining resources into a good defensive invasion. Then sue for peace to show, the US it has strength to do keep the war going.

But they wanted to sue on their condition, not unconditional. After the first bomb japan already lost most of their major cities prior with only 3-4 major cities still habitual but ZERO effect of their war effort. Military and strategic wise the bombs didn do much to hinder their efforts.

Now here;s the important point. 1941 Russia/Jap singed a five-year neutrality pact. Japan hoped that Stalin might be convinced to mediate a settlement between the United States. Where Russia would impose a US influenced on Japan/Chinese area.

But that all went to shit when Russia invaded Manchuria and quickly taken back most of Eastern Asia within 10 days and another 14 days to be near Japanese coast ready for invasion.

So after the 2nd bomb dropped, this gave the Emperor and the government a perfect excuse to surrender. They were lying ot the people the whole time about the progress fo the war. Now they saw a perfect excuse, a miracle scientific breakthrough of godly destruction brought down the mighty Emperor. Not US nor the impending invasion of Russia.

Was justified, well in the Japanese government it was the best thing if could happen, we did them a favor.

>accepting conditional surrender

Why would you do this? It never works.

>Did they sue for peace

Yup. They tried to. The USA wasn't having any of it thought because conditional surrender is what caused the second world war to kick of in the first god damned place. Total defeat was viewed as being necessary.

Let's keep in mind that Japan was incredibly fortunate that Macarthur was running the show in east asia, and he set out very generous terms, unlike what happened in Germany. Japan's atrocities were much worse than the germans, and they pretty much got off scott free for what they did. Very few people at the top were executed and many of the corporations and their wealthy owners were allowed to continue on, shifting their business from military application to domestic/consumer ones with the help of the US.

pic related is every call in discussion w/ molyfaggot

>Hey molyneux love the show but just so you know there is definitely an irony in saying "not an argument" not being an argument in and of itself
>Not an argument
Guys a fucking shitshow, Im sure he's absolutely terrible to be around

this user gets it
Wilson fucking hated the Bolsheviks.

The allies demanded unconditional surrender from all axis countries

For once, leaf is not bound for the flames.

But not an argument is most definitely an argument.

lol @ you actually defending the nuking of civilians for literally no reason

you are literal scum

c h e c k e d

from what I recall nobody wanted to see the humiliation of the emperor not being the son of god and losing (unconditionally). But America would only accept that. Hence they just went for it to do the check mate.

They did, but not according to US terms, which demanded unconditional surrender. 2 nukes changed their attitude really quick.

They didn't fully surrender, they essentially wanted something like this
>We'll stop breaking your stuff if you stop breaking ours, K?
Being the aggressor that started the war, they could not be trusted to be allowed to rebuild

Japan was nuked for two reasons
Anything other than these two reasons if a false narrative.

Reason #1 to intimidate Russia
Reason #2 to test their new toy.

That is it.

its been known for decades? japan wanted to surrender, they declined only to surrender to the same terms after 2 nukes, yet every dumbass is taught the nukes were justified,

they were not even major citities in the war effort, it was literally a war crime and nothing else. just like they had no problem with forgiving japanese crimes for science data.

this lol.

but again what do you expect? just look at north korea, how everyone thinks everything is fake because VICE said it once 10 years ago. "omg fake airport" even tho they have 90k tourists a year.

they literally surrendered on the same terms that was suggested 2 weeks before the nukes.

which part of this did you not understand ?

What is the treaty of Versailles?
Who wrote it?
What I'll intended effects happened because of it?

>nips learned their lesson. Now they know who is their best friend.
they sure do

Fuck outta here juden!

Comments in the video called him out on it. He was getting pretty salty with his one-liner replies.

It's just a statement one makes when someone makes an actual non-argument. Example:
>Commenter: Stefan you're wrong about spanking because your mother was excessively abusive towards you!
That's not an argument because his personal life has no bearing on his argument against spanking.

The only thing that caused the Jap's to surrender was Manchuria getting wiped out.
The only thing that caused the US to accept their surrender was beta testing nukes in full view of the Soviets, and the threat of Soviet invasion of the home islands after Manchuria was wiped out.

Then why was there a coup attempt after the nukes, ahead of the surrender?

Casualties of war. You think people just hug it out in war? It's fucking war. People die. Bad shit happens. If you don't want people to die, don't fucking throw stones. Japs started that shit. They have themselves to blame. Do you think the nips gave a fuck when they attacked Darwin or Pearl Harbour?

Totally incorrect. The Japanese were prepared to lose Manchuria and were already preparing a defense of the home island versus AMERICAN invasion, not Soviet since of course the Soviets had no way to stage an invasion of Japan in the first place. Their logistics were too stretched even taking Korea, let along launching a massive amphibious invasion. You repeating and spreading bullshit and you don't know what you're talking about.

Cry more weebs, we did the right thing.

The nips knew that according to the Potsdam declaration we wanted unconditional surrender.

>mfw Molyneux tries to argue that embargoes are an act of war despite him being a libertarian and believing that freedom of association is essential to society

I don't know how you can be so ahistoric so as to believe it wasn't the shocking loss of Manchuria that compelled their initial back channel overtures toward surrender.
>try to surrender with the condition of the Emperor must retain the thrown
>US says no unconditional or nothing
>drops two nukes
>then accepts the condition that they won't shitcan the Emperor
This is objectively what happened. Subjective is ferreting out the motivation.

Molymeme is fake news.

This. Embargo doesn't violate the NAP.

How can you possibly believe that when the Japanese were already repositioning divisions within the Home Islands to fight off Operation Downfall? They must have expected to lose Manchuria if they were preparing to fight an American invasion of Kyushu and Honshu.

I don't know how you can think that a Soviet invasion of Japan was even remotely possible in any way.

No, all the states involved realized that the disintegration of Russia allowed for easy land grabs, i.e. around the Russian civil war period 1917-1921. It wasn't a coordinated effort to snuff out Gommunism. As for wilson? He admired the fuck out of the USSR. Try again faggit

Why did Molymeme act like such an ass during that debate? The guy was being friendly as fuck and Stefan just kept bullying and asking him random questions and shooting him down when he tried to agree.

Was Stefan just in a bad mood?

Do you just pull this kind of bullshit straight out of your own ass? It definitely was a coordinated effort to snuff out communism, the United States didn't even recognize the USSR until the 1930s.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_Red_Scare
how can you not fucking know about this
stop posting about shit you don't know about

Canacucks hate the way WWII ended. It's been a chip on their shoulder for a few decades at least.

>America, Britain and Czechoslovakia attacked the Red Army because they wanted to annex Russia
really makes you think

not an argument

Not the guy you are arguing with, but here is Truman's own words... "He'll [Stalin and Russia] be in the Jap War on August 15th. Fini Japs when that comes about."

doug-long.com/hst.htm

The other guy is right, you are mistaken.

Being an asshole for no reason isn't an argument either

This. I posted this as a comment. Told him embargoes aren't acts of war and he tried to say Pearl Harbor was somewhat justified by it.

He got mad and said he never justified it.

How's that contradict what I said? Truman is referring here to the invasion of Manchuria