Hello Comrades. This general is for the discussion of Marxism-Leninism, the ideology of revolutionary socialism and communism.
Communism is the next stage of humanity following the capitalist stage.
What exactly is communism according to Marxist-Leninists:
>Communism is a stage of society in which the productive infrastructure is socially owned, and goods are produced not in order to sell for profit, but in order to meet a social need. >Communism in it's full form is a stateless, classless society that follows the maxim "From each according to their ability, to each according to their need." >To achieve such a society Marxism-Leninism teaches us that we must replace the capitalist state, which is controlled by the capitalist class, by a socialist state, which is controlled by the working class. Then, a period of class struggle follows in which the capitalist class is liquidated by the working class. When the capitalist class has been completely vanquished, there will be only one class, the working class, and eventually the functions of the state will become indistinguishable from the functions of the society as a whole, and the state as such will 'wither away' as Marx said. marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1848/communist-manifesto/
>commies literally cannot explain how they'll create wealth How much more delusional can you get?
Juan Baker
Well at least they kept order unlike Brazil.
Austin Fisher
MUERETE HIJO DE PUTA
Joshua Richardson
>tfw part of communist family and will rape the commoners again because democracy is falling apart and the regime is returning and the west can't do jack shit about it
Feels good man.
Logan Scott
>Brazil is richer than China >Brazil is richer than Cuba >Brazil is richer than Vietnam >Brazil is richer than Venezuela >Brazil would be richer than Russia if Putin wasn't an ex KGB that knows how to mold culture.
"a-a-at least they kept order unlike brazil"
Connor Robinson
>turn countries with the same gdp as japan into africa-tier development >"at least they kept order" Move to Cuba and go enjoy all the order, faggot.
Wyatt Jackson
Numbers such as these are absolutely irrelevant and are caused by western intervention rather than some inherent failure of the socialist system. The ordinary person, despite supposedly more "limited", lived better then and he knows it today. That's why he wants it back. Sure it won't be the same system but the american neo-liberal democracy is cancer and must be destroyed.
Logan Bell
MANDATORY THREAD FOR NEET COMMIES
NOT REAL COMMUNISM #217412348
Alexander Phillips
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Benjamin Wilson
>The ordinary person, despite supposedly more "limited", lived better then and he knows it today. That's why he wants it back. I highly doubt that the average person wants to live in North Korea. Heck, the people in Hong Kong don't even want to return to China cause their capitalism has brought such a huge difference in prosperity.
Alexander Morris
We still can do it. You from the west and I from the north
Ethan Gutierrez
Communism is almost as stupid as Islam. It has failed badly wherever attempted. Soviet Union, China, North Korea, Cuba, Vietnam. If you think it works in practice you are an idiot
Leo Lopez
Do you even calculate, bro?
Sebastian Martinez
>turn countries with the same gdp as japan >Bulgaria >Albania >Romania >Hungary
Communism is trash but is this monkey trolling or legitimately retarded?
Nathan Brooks
>mfw commies actually believe that "western intervention" made 50% of planet earth full of minerals and riches less intelligent and productive.
If that made any sense we would be having a non-stop world war for the past 50 years. Those nations produce less wealth because of their own behavior. Not because of "western intervention". There were countries with almost no natural resources that were at war with the west like Japan, and they were infinitely richer than communist countries.
Also
>"rather than some inherent failure of the socialist system" I already posted links explaining that there's an obvious inherent failure in the socialist system.
Liam Wilson
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Lucas Scott
What are the means of production?
Sebastian Reyes
Direct product of modern american propaganda and even despite that most countries in the eastern block are looking for alternatives since they see it just doesn't work. A new fresh take on socialism with some changes (particularly integration of the orthodox church and limited private ownership) is inevitable and there's nothing the US can do about it while China is looming on the horizon.
Short war is far less devastating than prolonged disruption, which is what america and it's close allies are doing to the "post-communist" nations. This is coming to an end with Russia rising though so enjoy it while it lasts.
All in all, neo-liberalism is dead. And you know it too.
>Cuba was literally a first world industrial country with the 8th highest wages on the planet, you swedish cuck.
And you try to prove your point by posting a picture of the European Warsaw Pact, the mind behind this one is not in particularly smart.
Jeremiah Campbell
>Direct product of modern American propaganda They are statistically worse off than the capitalist countries, that's a fact.
>even despite that most countries in the eastern block are looking for alternatives since they see it just doesn't work They should try free market capitalism, it tends to work pretty well.
>is inevitable and there's nothing the US can do about it You JUST SAID that the previous failures were due to USA intervention and now you're saying that this time its impossible? Make up your mind.
Parker King
Seems like you completely ignored the videos I posted and the explanation of the obvious impossibility of a communist economy. I wonder why?
>All in all, neo-liberalism is dead. And you know it too. Neo-liberalism never existed because it's a metamorphic buzzword constructed by the people that are allegedly against it, so they can associate everything that's bad with the buzzword and do some virtue signaling.
Jordan Martinez
The means of production includes two broad categories of objects: instruments of labor (tools, factories, infrastructure, etc.) and subjects of labor (natural resources and raw materials). If creating a good, people operate on the subjects of labor, using the instruments of labor, to create a product; or, stated another way, labour acting on the means of production creates a good.
Means of labor is a concept in Marxist political economy that refers to "all those things with the aid of which man acts upon the subject of his labor, and transforms it." (Institute of Economics of the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R., 1957) Means of labor include tools and machinery (the "instruments of production"), as well as buildings and land used for production purposes and infrastructure like roads and communications networks and so forth. Labor, Itself defines "work, especially hard physical work."
Subject of labor, or object of labor, is a concept in Marxist political economy that refers to "everything to which man's labor is applied." (Institute of Economics of the Academy of Sciences of the U.S.S.R., 1957) The subject of labor may be materials provided directly by nature like timber or coal, or materials that have been modified by labor. In the latter case, the subject of labor (e.g., yarn in a textile mill or semi-conductor chips in a computer assembly factory) are called raw materials.
Carter Brooks
>West germany had a higher gdp per capita than japan >right next to germany, poland after the USSR had only 5,000$ per capita Turns out the pic proves my point just fine. Your objection was retarded.
Benjamin Cox
>china >communist
pick one
Isaiah Thomas
>instruments of labor and subjects of labor But these do not do anything of themselves. If these resources are seized how do we know what to produce? Surely there must be something beyond this which is the true means of production?
Luke Wright
Remember when the means were production were ACTUALLY seized, and it lead to the total destruction and empovirishemnt of China? youtube.com/watch?v=f-woaDniFQ
They were literally at times of peace. Turns out seizing the means of production was worst than having a world war. It is seriously better to get nuked than to have commie ideology.
Andrew Wright
>144th in economic freedom >Is run by a communist party It checks out to me. The only way they can get more communist is if they turned into North Korea.
Owen Kelly
Free market capitalism is the thing making them statistically worse. The US today is not what it was yesterday. I'm not sure how otherwise to explain it but I'll try. You are weak now, dying country torn apart by internal division, bound for irrelevancy as happened with the "great british empire where the sun doesn't set" . You can put all your hopes and dreams on someone like trump but the truth is nothing will change.
You seem to be under the impression that I'm some of those western autistic retards talking about insect pipe dreams. That is not the case. The eastern block functioned well enough, and "fell apart" due to essentially not trying not to fall apart. Rather than going for "perestroika", a simple take 2 on Stalin's methods, without any other changes whatsoever (needed or not), would have guaranteed the USSR wouldn't have been destroyed for at least another generation or two. Personally I wouldn't have liked that for reasons of my own but who cares.
As for the charts, they are inaccurate because they compare simple numbers and nothing more. To make matters worse, they compare it AFTER the system was destroyed. Wow. Burn a house down and you'd find ashes. Shocker.
None take into consideration the following things that existed >total lack of poverty >extremely high literacy rates >housing ownership >social services >work
Michael Martinez
Daily reminder that the central foundation of all Marxist theory- that of primitive communism- has been debunked now for a century. Marx was a miserable failure as have been all of his offshoot cult leaders.
Dominic Campbell
West Germany got the Marshall Aid East Germany,Poland etc got punished by the Soviets and had their industries shipped away.
Juan Long
>Free market capitalism is the thing making them statistically worse. This just doesn't match up with reality. Economic freedom is directly correlated with economic freedom. Hong Kong vs. China, South Korea vs. North Korea, Venezuela vs. Chile, cold war East Europe vs West Europe.
Christopher Gray
>debunked by the (((Mises))) (((Institute))) >into the trash it goes
Alexander Rodriguez
The magic of the free market, or the magic of "force fed wealth by the US to prevent communism"?
Interesting how capitalist miracles don't happen after the ussr died... despite a lot of time passing since them.
Robert Wilson
Woah, you ignored my videos once again, so I'll post them again, maybe this time you'll see them. >youtube.com/watch?v=Jqv1out48E4 >youtube.com/watch?v=CmOUDMAtRt4 >youtube.com/watch?v=zkPGfTEZ_r4 A communist economy is intrinsically impossible. There's no economizing when you don't know value. The western block was piss poor, with families sharing apartments, and with children living with their parents past adulthood. Their gdp was mostly nonsense, it was malinvestments being counted as GDP. Soviet politicians thought western propagandists were fucking with them when they visited a common grocery story in the US.
Mason Price
>eastern block*
Kayden Ross
>The magic of the free market, or the magic of "force fed wealth by the US to prevent communism"? I'm pretty sure we aren't subsidizing the entirety of capitalist civilization, and if we are then how is that not more proof of the prosperity that capitalism creates, that an economically free country like the USA can single handedly take down communism and support free market capitalism throughout the entire world.
>Interesting how capitalist miracles don't happen after the ussr died That's exactly what happened, WTF are you talking about? Hong Kong and China my friend.
Brody Butler
Proponents of capitalism argue that the real living standards of those on low pay are better raised by allowing the whole economy to grow. As it grows, those at the bottom of the social heap will benefit from wealth that ‘trickles down’ from the top. The falsity of this argument can be seen by looking at the figures. The long term rate of growth of the UK economy is 2.5 percent per annum(1993).
How many years would it take a woman earning the median wage to get up to £300 per week at this growth rate? The answer is 30 years: check it on your calculator. Socialist redistribution could achieve directly what would otherwise take the better part of a working lifetime. With socialism the employee can have her cake and eat it too. She gets a once and for all rise in income through redistribution, but economic growth does not stop, so she will continue to enjoy rising earnings year by year.
Christian Nguyen
This is now a Nazi Frog thread
Justin Nguyen
Fire Cuck 2017
Andrew Phillips
Once you read the Gulag Archipelago, get back to us.
Nicholas Ramirez
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Ayden Williams
Auf Wiedersehen
Charles Lee
>Proponents of capitalism argue that the real living standards of those on low pay are better raised by allowing the whole economy to grow. As it grows, those at the bottom of the social heap will benefit from wealth that ‘trickles down’ from the top. Almost no one makes that argument.
Michael Perez
The planned economy bureaucracy had it's problems, not unfixable though as is often claimed. Still, the cold war and external pressure played larger part and most importantly the internal party decay. "loosening the fist". As for the videos. You can find the total opposite. Which ones do you believe then? The ones that fit your narrative?
Funny how propaganda works.
>china is capitalist when I like it but not when I don't
Though I have to say their system does indeed ring closer to future iterations of socialism. It is obvious that the lower class is less rebellious when there is clear upper class ruling them, even if it takes care of them worse, rather than some idealized "we are all equal but not exactly" nonsense. A flaw of human nature I guess?
Austin Murphy
You want Socialism? You are on the wrong side, Fascists.
Brandon Gutierrez
Yeah I know, brutal rape and torture. What does it have to do with communism?, that's not what communism goal is you know...
Julian Perry
I am not reading any of your propaganda books.
Camden Rogers
But Hermann Göring made so much more sense
Jayden Morales
>Socialist redistribution could achieve directly what would otherwise take the better part of a working lifetime Then why it DIDN'T do that every time it was tried?
>china is capitalist when I like it but not when I don't From talking to commies on these threads, this is actually what they believe.
>Though I have to say their system does indeed ring closer to future iterations of socialism Which explains why they're doing so poorly compared to Hong Kong and Taiwan.
Nathaniel Cox
Yes, funny how propaganda works. Makes people defend autocracies that wrecked havoc upon their own people.
>As for the videos. You can find the total opposite. Which ones do you believe then? The ones that fit your narrative?
You didn't even fucking clicked on them, you are so delusional, and going through such a strong cognitive dissonant that you didn't even fucking clicked on the videos to see what it was. You are assuming it's some sort of propaganda, except you clearly didn't even watch them.
Henry Robinson
You are just a bunch of paid rioters for Israel.
Connor Peterson
Am I allowed?
Isaac Hernandez
Hong Kuck only exists because China allows it to.
Jackson Gray
It's literally money laundering haven for the top members of the Communist Party
Noah King
And you'll be the first to hang under their NWO because you are good for nothing, least of it hard work. No one needs you, no one wants you. Topkek.
David Murphy
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Josiah Lee
Same as your Mudslime friends. You get gassed either way, so you are unimportant to even deal with. We rather deal with Soros himself, you play monkey. See you around.
Ethan Lopez
>Hong Kuck only exists because China allows it to. How is this any different than "communist countries only failed because the USA stopped them"? Don't try to argue for communism from a position of force, it doesn't work out well for you.
David Phillips
Just because you made this thread
>I will snitch on antifas dealing drugs and fuck thier whole family.
>I know like 20 antifas that deal drugs and know when they getting thier shippment.
>they can thank you for a life time in prison for LSD and Extacy dealing
He opposed abortion and supported traditional gender roles. Pretty based.
Liam Ward
>Communism has never been tried! >USSR >Failed so quickly it had to be altered and people lied their way through killing everyone that tried to stop them
