I'm a leftist interested in understanding the right's ideas.
In a recent speech, Steve Bannon said the following:
>We’re a nation with an economy, not an economy just in some global marketplace with open borders — we’re a nation with a culture and a reason for being.
What evidence is there that "open borders" have in some way affected or influenced culture?
Other urls found in this thread:
archive.boston.com
twitter.com
shill thread meant to slide other threads dont post here
I'm serious, fucktard.
Culture comes from people
Change the makeup of the people, you change the culture
To an extent, but, hypothetically, shouldn't most immigrants' children be fairly integrated and assimilated? And shouldn't it be considered that a pretty decent portion of immigrants here are moderately to heavily assimilated?
I do understand concern when there are major culture clashes or a sudden big shift in demographics, but I think this wasn't and isn't really happening in the United States.
1965 Immigration act. 90% European and Lead the World in almost every field. Flash forward to 2017.
around 60% european. Failing academically, financially. Some of our City's are now 3rd world tier with undrinkable water. Crime rate has risen exponentially. What do you think is gonna happen as our percentage goes down? Do you think it will magically start working and become a pleasant place to live? Nah, we will become Brazil. Hell there is a purge going on right now down there, and it's being ignored by the media. There is your future without borders.
Correlation isn't causation. There have been plenty of times in America's past with severe economic distress with far fewer immigrants.
Also, the situation with water in some areas is bad but it's not like it was magically way better in the past. Our government has always just been kind of shitty.
In theory they should, and often they do through the education system. However, the trend among immigrants (and its been true since beginning of time) is self-segregation which leads to ghettos (I mean this in the original sense of the word.) if you want to see the influence of Mexican immigrants to the South, in the past 15 years most signs and other things have become bilingual, and now we even run ads that are in spanish alone. It's not always negative, and for example people celebrated la dia de los muertos here too. In Europe it's a far more dangerous situation because it's not families, it's overwhelmingly military aged men who are often sexually repressed
ok smart guy
what year will south africa surpass its previous peak
I don't completely but mostly disagree about Europe's situation. Either way, I just wanted to talk about the US because that's where I live and know the most about.
I don't see an issue with legal immigration in this country, as long as people are reasonably good at the language and try to integrate with the culture. And as far as I can tell, that's the majority of immigrants.
I don't mind signs being bilingual, as long as people are trying to gain a decent grasp of the language. Airing or displaying things only in Spanish is surrendering too much, but I'm pretty sure that's done very rarely and only in a few small areas.
Also, on this point
>I do understand concern when there are major culture clashes or a sudden big shift in demographics, but I think this wasn't and isn't really happening in the United States.
On a national scale, I agree with you, but if you look at cities like LA and certain neighborhoods the shift is very dramatic. Black folks got REPLACED in South Central and Compton by Mexican migrants in only the past 20 years
Because the world isn't perfect. Other nations have borders. If you are not willing to defend your borders, (Ie, open borders), other countries will just freely move their borders up. They don't need to send the military, they just migrate people onto the land.
No, you take after your parents more than any other people in the world. It doesn't matter if you now speak English and have gone through American schooling, you will still be shaped by your parents parenting techniques which typically include the traditions instilled to them by their parents which are clearly not American by culture.
You can't integrate millions of people waiving mexican flags.
They are not hear to be American, they just want money and gimmi's
Sure, I don't believe in literally open borders. But I don't think the US had or has open borders. I think Bannon is heavily exaggerating.
I'm all for protecting the border and carefully vetting applicants. I have no problem with increased border security, as long as it's done efficiently and wisely. I think a giant wall is a huge waste of money and time, but I have no problems with reasonable increase in funding to ICE.
>No, you take after your parents more than any other people in the world. It doesn't matter if you now speak English and have gone through American schooling, you will still be shaped by your parents parenting techniques which typically include the traditions instilled to them by their parents which are clearly not American by culture.
That's true, but I'd say most immigrants here already tend to become pretty integrated, and combined with most people's kids being exposed to born Americans, they're likely going to be fairly integrated.
If their parents haven't assimilated much, then that's definitely going to impact their kids heavy, but from what I've seen this isn't a common or major problem in the US. Maybe I'm wrong.
Explain Zimbabwe and South Africa then. Same thing on a smaller scale. They used to be prosperous now they are in ruin. And it is known that diversity does not help civic participation and the things that encourage a healthy community.
archive.boston.com
Who is actually coming here and waving Mexican flags though?
Also, I don't care if they get government benefits if they're employed and paying taxes and I don't really see why other people care.
Mostly people care because those groups tend to vote overwhelmingly democrat, and so the democrats keep advocating mass immigration. Because it's self-reciprocating and involves the expansion of the welfare state it's a dangerous proposition
>And it is known that diversity does not help civic participation and the things that encourage a healthy community.
I don't doubt this is true, but isn't it pretty likely the cause is psychological? People are naturally skeptical and biased. It's something that can change over time, and has changed at an accelerating pace over the past few centuries.
>Explain Zimbabwe and South Africa then. Same thing on a smaller scale. They used to be prosperous now they are in ruin.
I don't know anything about them, so I have no idea. But if your point is that an African or black-led country just can't be prosperous or well-run, there are counter-examples.
That's a pretty reasonable point, so I understand why conservatives dislike immigration for that reason. I'd feel the same. It's very self-perpetuating, as you say, but it's also a feedback loop from the opposite perspective. A partial explanation is that immigrants tend to have lower income, and lower income people tend to vote Democrat, but the other issue is that Republican policies tend to be anti-immigration (or sometimes even antagonistic towards their nation or ethnicity).
Just as Republicans are forced to self-preserve by becoming more and more anti-immigrant, I think immigrants naturally react and get pulled further to Democrats for their own well-being. Each exacerbating the other.
Leftists are completely against assimilation, they promote multiculturalism in everything they do, praising people holding on to their original culture.
I should also say that it's a feedback loop from each party's goals. Republicans want to strengthen their voterbase (immediately but also in the long-run) by reducing immigrant count, and in reaction to actions by Democrats. Democrats want the opposite and also feel the need to react.
I do see how politics makes this a much more difficult issue. It's sort of a big conflict of interest for Democrats. Many Republicans are guilty of the same conflict of interest or outright scheming, through gerrymandering and other tactics, but Democrats are in the unique position of pretty much *every* single one of themselves in a conflict of interest even when being pro-immigration for solely humanistic reasons.
Well obviously everyone will have a different definition for "leftist", but I think most US leftists generally favor moderate assimilation.
>praising people holding on to their original culture.
I'll also add that it's not such a black-and-white thing. People can still feel and practice aspects of their original culture while integrating with ours and feeling and practicing like Americans. In cases where the two might come in conflict, they should respect our culture, but in the US I think this is almost never an issue for the vast majority of people.