What's the deal with civic nationalists?

I've never heard of such term until i somehow got into burgerland politics, clear up my mind Sup Forums.

Are "civic nationalists" just an SJW-tier fauna that started being appealed by an "edgy/badass" trait they can't find within the left?

Or legit right wing people who don't have the balls to take the final step and embrace identity politics due to social repercussions waiting for the day they become fashionable?

They just pretend not to have a natural sense of belonging to their own ethnicity, right?

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>America
There's your answer

It's not really an answer actually, i can't know to what point cosmopolitan societies annihilate your very identity, although the fact they're so eager to get in touch with their main heritage and the tendency to live in relatively homogeneous neighbours/cities/states makes me think it's just an hypocritical play.

as long as you can contribute. Idgaf what color your skin is. No shitty un-American ideas. No islam, ect...

So "the place you call home" for you guys is wherever your basic values are in charge, and your language is spoken? No looks, dialects, traditions?

you're thinking about spics, niggers, and sand people. I said "if you can contribute". obviously a majority of these people will not make the cut. I see no problem with bringing skilled intelligent individuals.

this isn't the same as open borders. Immigration rate will never exceed birth rate of native pop

kinda had similar questions. Never heard of "civic nationalism" until Sup Forums. I wanted to know who originally coined the phrase. Looking up on wikipedia: there's a lot of [citation needed]s. Doesn't even seem to have a clear academic pedigree to it or even clear definition.

America's nationlism was usually called "cultural nationalism" IIRC, which I believe would be the same type of nationalism for almost any western country, as opposed to the "ethnic nationalism" that would mean devision of the scottish, britishl, and irish.

>why doesn't a big empire embrace ethnonationalism

First time I heard the term was when Ukip got infiltrated by them, to me they're liberals trying to latch onto the success of the right

ah... so it's a Ukip thing (or rather a pervertion of the Ukip movement)?

I'm not sure, that's just when I first heard it. I imagine it was a term that originated in WN or WN-sympathetic circles when they found themselves in alliance with people that are normally on the other side

It's for people who don't understand politics, or words for that matter. They're basically egalitarians who think anyone can be a part of your nation, which is indistinguishable from the state, just by living here. I guess the only requirement is that you aren't muslim and that you come LEGALLY (always say "legally" with authority if you want to be a civic nationalist. It's a rule) because apparently that makes you different in some way. Oh, and you have to hate sjws.

You may have a point.
I totally see the bond between Americans is of course a culture based on their bill of rights or whatever. I still don't this is nearly enough, especially when "the cake gets too little to be shared", i'm quite convinced people of the same ethnicity tends to naturally stick together. What would happen if a long lasting great depression occurred, with such a great deal of diversity? People would start acting like jews, from nepotism when it comes to business, to waging war towards the other groups.

It's sort of a pointless position to hold here, and most of Europe pre-refugee crisis because all of the immigration is already legal, and we hate it. These civic nats will hate it just as much when they realise the only difference between legal and illegal immigration is a piece of paper

If they assimilate then there is no problem.

If they are genetically incapable of assimilating then they'll be deported.

>They're basically egalitarians
>and you have to hate sjws.
Oh, the irony. Hating sjws is basically "shooting at the red cross", as we say here. Too easy. Just like people like McInnes and related YT personalities, nothing more but leftists who call themselves right wing just because they disagree with the most retarded positions the some leftists advocate. And maybe they might be against gun control, wow.

>the only difference between legal and illegal immigration is a piece of paper

Wrong. Legal immigrants are vetted and selected. We can let in the best of the world. If some one in a million 150 IQ Christian Arab wants to come in, no problem

>Or legit right wing people who don't have the balls to take the final step and embrace identity politics due to social repercussions waiting for the day they become fashionable?
this one

>Why should a big shitty empire stay together to subsidize our globalist elites who destroy the world?

I'd rather break it up along racial lines and take it back later.

It's not so much a lack of belonging to their own ethnicity, but an acceptance of those from other ethnicities, with the caveat that they follow the nation's rules, laws, culture and morality. Failure to do so results in being expelled.

I cannot truly fault a nigger for being born with such a disadvantage, he did not ask for his fate. Therefore I don't disparage him for it, and allow him to live by my side with the hope he will overcome his base nature. . But should be2 fall prone to his blood then he is no longer welcome.

Most civics are just nationalists who can't cross that last line though. You're right for most of them.

Unlike Europe which fell under the spell of Marx, the superior Burger does not fall prey to cultural marxism and identity politics.

This.

Sup Forums likes it because Sup Forums has a bunch of American minorities on it who think that SJW bullshit is dumb but who also have obvious issues with white nationalists who want an America with a lot fewer minorities in it (SJW or not).

>that would mean devision of the scottish, britishl, and irish.
it is what the southern irish want
but you dont see a difference between a union of peoples with very similar genetics, iq, cultures, standard of living, history etc. etc. and a union of africans, europeans, and chinks that all believe in some abstract ideas? diversity = conflict, brits become indistinguishable in each others countries within 1 generation so its not an issue

Eh you can always cut out the niggers, spics and other lower life forms and not lose anything. European cultures are similiar enough to each other that European immigrants and people of European descent can integrate into American society but the idea that totally alien cultures and races can be mixed in has led to nothing but disaster. Even if you root through the mud and find a decent negro, that negro's children will almost always turn out to be nigger trash, its not worth it to even include the "good ones".

>We should take the highest tier from around the world to compete with our own middle class instead of these people improving their own country.

So you're a selfish faggot.

>If some one in a million 150 IQ Christian Arab wants to come in, no problem
I would agree with this, but even those Visas should be handed on the base of your native people's demographic rate. If it's too low, FIRST you go for some policy that rises it, THEN you may accept such a number of immigrants. Protecting native people's legacy is protecting the very identity of your country. Of course it may not count for the US (tho, on a certain extent, it does).

Your career/life is over once you cross the line so cucks hide and stay civic nationalists

Heres how this timeline would go down

>USA immediately annexes USAA for dat dere farmland
>then takes Florida cuz lol why not
>War between German State and USA
>USA wins because much higher population density and majority of military bases/nuclear weapons
>USA then annexes all the smaller powers

Wew

>and allow him to live by my side with the hope he will overcome his base nature
this is fucking retarded enjoy paying the nigger tax
>But should be2 fall prone to his blood then he is no longer welcome.
what are you going to do if its his niglet offspring 3 generations down that cause the issue?

>Eh you can always cut out the niggers, spics and other lower life forms and not lose anything.
That crosses the line of every single civic nationalist tho

Agree on the rest, literally nobody would complain about any western european immigrant, here.

I speak from experience, 150 IQ Christian Arabs are not the ones that immigrate. Legal immigration is a tool for the elite to flood the nation with people that undercut and displace the working class to depress wages and maintain a miniscule GDP growth, 150 IQ Christian Arabs are already succesful in their own nations and I'd rather have nobody coming in than get the occasional good apple in a spoilt bunch

I think this explains it quite neatly.

It's a term for everybody who doesn't wants to limit immigration without starting an all-white country.

>he hates competition

Un-American faggot. We don't live in some communal fagland.

>Visas should be handed on the base of your native people's demographic rate. If it's too low, FIRST you go for some policy that rises it, THEN you may accept such a number of immigrants.

That's how it used to work. There were numerous moves to stop immigration when it became too fast, like the Chinese exclusion act. They were taking over California way too fast

Exactly right.

The similar genotype and phenotype is important as well. People try to pretend that people who look radically different can mix into a society with no issues, when our most important sense is sight. People are just less trusting of those who look different from them; it's not good or bad-just biology. That has little effect with overseas trade, but huge aggregate effects in a multiracial society.

Social trust is destroyed.

You have no balls. Single ethnicity states have no identity.

Damn, that's pretty awesome.
And it implies the very root of the problem: giving up everything you've been, your grudges and preconceptions and embrace the values promoted in the American constitution can be summed up in a term: "doctrine". It's natural, that immigrant must be indoctrinated, indoctrinated hard. And like in any nation where a strict doctrine is in charge, those who don't live by these rules, must be either deported or killed.

Nice jewish propaganda, bro.

The (((melting pot))) loves africans, goyim!

>What's the deal with civic nationalists?
retarded kike attempt to turn the right back into neocons and an inept, white genociding clusterfuck like the democrat party

The niggers should have never been allowed in. A soft genocide is the only solution.

But it IS an answer, for America and Canada at least. No idea why Europe does it.

Italy was built up by European people, so it is for European people. Black slaves also participated in building America, so they're a part of American history too. Chinese workers built our railroads in Canada in the western provinces, so there's much more Asians in our western provinces than in our eastern ones.

They are a part of our history, we need to deal with it. No idea why Europe is cucking itself though...

Wishful thinking or Chinese "Canadian"?

Then
>what are you going to do if its his niglet offspring 3 generations down that cause the issue?

Then the niglet will be sent away. I said I was a nationalist. Doesn't mean I like the way this shit is handled now. I think any crime should revoke one's citizenship automatically.

Yanks are mutts that generally lack an ethnic identity, that's why they focus on things like 'black' and 'white' nationalism and 'civic' nationalism.

They're uprooted peoples, no Blut und Boden.

UKIP were always C I V I C as fuck. They took the place of Ethnonationlist BNP in our poltics. However bnp got around 1% of the vote compared to UKIPs 15%

Multi racial societies don't work, period, it just leads to division and racism.

It doesn't matter which races are involved, it doesn't work.

>Competition means bringing in foreign ethnic groups to destroy our genetics and cultural cohesion.

We definitely can't have healthy business competition without rag heads and street shitters here. How could we maximize our shekels otherwise?

Why do you think they recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school?
Yes, Superman was created by 2 Jews. Is this your first day here?

>No idea why Europe is cucking itself though...
A lost war, an undisputed winner projecting its influence, ideas to be implemented in order to let the (actual) guys in charge to profit.

revoke to where? maybe they are 1/4 from 4 different places, and what country is going to be told by weak little canada that they have to taker a person?

>Why do you think they recite the Pledge of Allegiance every day in school?

I get it, the point is: those who don't stand up should be a step closer to being deported in order to keep the system from falling apart.

Release your guilt, dude. You have no obligation to the descendants of slaves. Our ancestors already did the right thing and freed them, we don't need to keep them here and give them gibs for eternity.

Because im a legal immigrant and want to defend the American Dream plz Richard Spencer makes sense but he hurts my feelings, do we really have to divide ourselves by ethnicity and race, after doing psychedelics I truly see myself in everybody's eyes that I look into :(

How about Yugoslavia and Northern Ireland. Does that show monoracial societys don't work. Does chile show multiracialism works

No, the real solution is a genetic free-market. White genes tend to provide more value, so minorities will purchase them and become white themselves.

White nationalists still think it's the 1930's. It's possible to have both ethnic and civic nationalism if you consider human genetic engineering.

Don't fall for the toxic unconditional love meme. Terence McKenna was a CIA agent.

>Never heard of "civic nationalism" until Sup Forums. I wanted to know who originally coined the phrase
Not sure, I know JS Mill and others played with the idea of "enlightened patriotism" in letters with Tocquevilles, in the context of the virtues of liberalism and individualism in civil governments.

The term "civic nationalism" itself though? I do not know.

Wrong, look at Singapore. They are less PC in Singapore and embrace "positive racism"

Nah, just figured you supported the text. If you don't, my bad.

That equivalence between non-european immigrants and euros is the main problem with America, so it's rustling.

Carswell and Evans are no comparison to people like Farage or Nuttal who I've always seen as soft ethno with civic rhetoric, or at least the policies they supported would aid the cause of ethno.

No he fucking wasn't you retard. You can either embrace love, or you can embrace toxic ethnonationalism. I mean, it's not even necessarily toxic. This is life, where there's predators and then there's prey. The ultimate end goal of ethnonationalists is for their ethnicity to reign supreme. Nothing wrong with that. But there's also nothing wrong with love and finding common ground.

Fucking retards.

Ever heard of a nation called Great Britain? A 300 year old nation that conquered the world and won two world wars? Civic Nationalism forever.

how are you guys doing now? empire still going strong?

We do have to divide ourselves but it will make us better friends, senpai. Friendly ethnonationalism is the future, and it still rings true even after much personal growth and mediation. Don't forget, while we are eternal souls we are still in different bodies for now.

Absolutely right, he was furthering globalism and communism.

I agree with you. Still feels bad man. But every day I get closer to embracing it.

You also belong to a Civic nation burger. The British Empire is still alive and well in parts of Australia.

Well no, empires are not really viable in a global capitalist economy. The whole point of colonialism was to invade 'x' country in order to gain resource 'y'. Nowadays it is not really needed.

>2152
>world is 99%+ white
>over time, people who choose non-white were seen as being different just for the sake of being different
>gene hipsters shunned
>designer gene centers finally just stop offering shitskin genes because there's no demand
>mfw

You are projecting. I respect and admire many races and ethnicities, but I want my own country, culture and bloodlines safe. I want all ethnicities to flourish in their own homelands. I am against colonization as well.

I went to south korea for business and I bonded with a guy there about how much hapas and half-breeds are terrible, and white sex tourism is cancer. Thats true common ground.

Civic nationalists are to the right of SJWs. It's also a safe label to use for watered-down white nationalism, if you're afraid of being smeared or attacked.

Take a man, give him reason, remove all hope. There's your "civic" nationalist. It's just americans who've given up on their one significant problem and prefer to sit with their thumb up their ass.

I will support white nationalism if every white nationalist take a dna test to prove their purity. I suspect the majority will get BTFO tho.

There is nothing more cucked than civic nationalism.
Might as well be a fucking liberal.

That's what happens when you use racial, communitary-based or identity-based politics.
Nationalism has been made racial, so there had to be a term coined to describe nationalism that does not deal with racial or ethnic identity.

Call them Propositional Nationalists.

It's not about "reigning supreme" else I'd be an Imperialist and frankly we'd be reigning supreme regardless of how many third worlders that are imported, it's about protecting my ethnic group's shared identity, history, traditions, culture and ancestry. I think every ethnic group deserves that, mixing societies only leads to hatred and mistrust, it destroys common ground that could've been found.

youtube.com/watch?v=6zGRSv2HD3I
Forgot link.

At what point has the US ever been an ethnic Nationalist state?

Yes he was. He was hired in south america while he was escaping from law enforcers due to its drug dealing. Reason why he could come back into the country and start preaching along with the rest of new-age MKULTRA spokesmen.
And the face of your nation will be irremediably compromised in few years because you still get mass immigration from the ex colonies. And native brits suffer for it.

Every ethnic group does deserve that and the anti-white and pro-"diversity" rhetoric is annoying and appalling. Still dont think America should be a white ethnostate.

I reject ethnic nationalism because it can only lead to tribalism when pushed to its logical conclusion.

For example here in the UK, we are mixes of basques, normans, pics, saxons, anglos, celts, etc, etc. And that was the ethnic soup prior to mercantilism and imperialism.

I imagine your situation is even worse considering you are literally sat at the edge of the Mediterranean sea. According to roman mythos the estrucans were greek rape babies. Are you saying the heartstone of the roman empire should have gone back to greece because you were full?

I think the rise of white ethnonationalism can be attributed to the identity politics of the left, and liberal immigration policies that have foreigners outnumbering the native population. If we could have the white population not be outnumbered by immigrants, there would literally be nothing wrong with immigration into America.

Not a nation, 3 nations with one state, it was a political union not a social one. Norn Iron is the example of what mass migration leads to.

It's not about the majority. It's a gradient. Having 25% leeches that are guaranteed to vote for gibs means whoever offers it can go so much further in pushing their ideology, since they only need 1/3rd of the actual people's votes.

>as long as you can contribute.
this is the stupidest fucking view a person can have
As if different groups don't hold radically different ideologies? As if the non-whites living in cities give 2 shits about whites in rural areas?

When the non-whites are the majority they will define what is "American"
Would you want to live in a country where YOU are a powerless minority? What of your own kind that now live in white minority areas? What of the ones persecuted for their race by the non-white recent migrants?

White people in the west have forgotten the whole meaning behind "nation-state", or why we have democracy, or why we have a country at all

Civic nationalism would only make sense to people in the US who don't have a long identity linking the nation and their race. It's a conceit of white people who think non-whites could love a white country's ideals when in practice, for good or for ill, those ideals were never realized for non-whites.

I do consider myself a civic nationalist because I believe the declaration of independence and the US constitution, modulo the slavery bullshit which was pushed by jews and democrats, form a racially agnostic minimalist state. But I also realize that white nationalism is more practical even if I don't think that whites are superior in any sense. Unfortunately white nationalism is linked to white supremacy in normies' minds (for good reasons or not) so I don't push it IRL.

You got to reason from timeline to timeline, we may destroy our current status quo and our great great great grandchildren may find it normal, you're saying it's perfectly okay to just embrace the change without trying to make sure the nice things the UK you know (the populations that forged it) will be still there for your children and grandchildren to enjoy.

Etruscans were most likely Anatolians, besides, we had phoenicians, in the immediate post-neolithic a mass migration from the current middle east occurred, we've always been a clusterfuck of cultures. But as i said earlier, it's a diversity worth preserving, and it would be to anyone who loves his own country.

>empires are not really viable in a global capitalist economy.

This is a totally inaccurate view
The US deliberately set about to destroy white civilization, which included white colonialism. Nothing inherent about empires ending.

As well, the population of brits vs their ruled areas was dramatically different 100-200 years ago. Whites used to be over a quarter of the worlds population, and non-white populations were 90% involved in subsistence lifestyles

If the brits had properly colonized areas of Africa & India, they could easily have kept those lands.

>I reject ethnic nationalism because it can only lead to tribalism when pushed to its logical conclusion.

This is the ONLY thing that will ever stand the test of time
No, the UK is/was not an ethnic soup.
You had scots in one area, irish on their island, welsh in their area, and english in england.
Maybe there was some admixture from saxons or norway but that was largely minimal

Governments come & go, values come & go, your nation is forever.

The biggest issue is that white identity is formulated around non-racial attributes like job meritocracy and politics. White identity is tied into civic responsibility which is why the left is so eager to conflate nationalism with white supremacy. To the left Americana is white nationalism because it was a status quo.

see my

Indians are natural Republicans. You'll see a growing movement of Indians voting Republican in America. Thats why Trump reached out specificailly to two groups of immigrants: Polish, and Indian. I'd assume that most Asians are natural Republicans. It's the identity politics of the left that confuses minority groups. But it doesn't have to be that way.

2 words for you: Regression toward the mean

nice platitude. u have the mind of a liberal.

Their ancestors worked hard to build this country, why don't they deserve to be part of it?

Just get over it, they're here to stay. We do have an obligation to them, in fact we have an obligation to every man, woman and child that has worked hard to build our country in the past, to respect their descendants.

...

you might want to double check the data on that
or more likely check it for the first time

>10,000 chinese might have worked in Canada doing work that otherwise whites would have done
>Therefore the 10 million recent asian immigrants who have nothing to do with those early chink migrants are "Canadian"

Do you think the shitskins cared about the work whites did building civilization in africa or asian ? Nope they just ethnically cleansed whites out, to the applause of the left in our countries.

We have no obligation to anything other than our own race/nation.

I know the data. It's just the liberal brainwash. I said you will see a growing trend towards Republican as people get redpilled.

See image

It is a perfectly accurate view. The US did push for an anti-colonial agenda following WW2, but our empire was already in trouble because financing the logistics of foreign rule on another ethnic population was unviable. It was too expensive to maintain, particularly when the natives started rebelling once their quality of life/means/education improved. However yes, the americans simply pushed the final nail in the coffin. Hell it was precisely mercantilism (the economic model of the colonial era) that the americunts rebelled over when we introduced the tea tax and sugar tax to protect our east india company. It could only last so long.

>No, the UK is/was not an ethnic soup.
lol okay, the picts, saxons, normans, danes, celts, etc never fucked and mixed during our 3000yo history. The only reason you can't tell is because caucasians mixed babies are not as obvious as the black/white mixed.

If you are for racial purity, you have to be consistent all the way through - regardless of general whiteness or not.

>You got to reason from timeline to timeline
So genetic purity is relative? That's good to know. Now don't get me wrong, I don't particularly want the """native""" ethnic soup to be made a minority, but that is also achievable through civic nationalism and putting an end to max immigration.

I just think ethnic nationalism is a knee-jerk reaction that will cause more problems than it would fix in the long-term.