A question to Atheists

Atheists of Sup Forums. How do you explain yourselves?

I am talking about those who identify themselves as Atheists, because the true definition of Atheism is the denial of the possibility of the supernatural whatsoever. Is it not far more logical to identify yourself as Agnostic instead of Atheists?

From a scientific perspective, it is logical to be agnostic because it makes sense to say "hey, I haven't seen anything supernatural but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist."

Why is it that Atheist insist that the Supernatural cannot possibly exist just because they haven't seen it?

>inb4 why is your God the correct one out of thousands?

I'm not making that argument, I'm saying that despite that, why would you rule out the supernatural as a possibility? It seems like you could have denied that the earth is round with the same level of insistence as you do with God.


tldr: Does not seeing something really mean it can't exist?

Thread theme: youtube.com/watch?v=xf58TEMm8Rw

>quick trilbdown

>It is an intolerable presumption on the part of human reason to doubt it

But I never said that.

this is pretty pointless…why does it matter what religion that other people follow?

>Why does it matter which ideology people follow?

That's a callous view of philosophy and religion wouldn't you say?

That's like saying it doesn't matter if people are Marxist or Fascist. The difference between the ideology of Christianity and Islam for example is striking and has huge impact on people.

It's important for people seek out what is right and what the best way to live is.

>identify themselves as Atheists
>identify
>implying Atheists are leftist, intersectionalists

Please.

But I'll bite.

I am Atheist in defiance of a God who is not self-evident, in provocation to reveal himself. In the least God is transcendental, if he exists, NOT personal.

The only anchor is a faith based argument of 'muh feels' and that is a bad argument. It may as well be a lie to trap you into some metaphysical slavery by malevolent demons.

>I am Atheist in defiance of a God who is not self-evident, in provocation to reveal himself.

>The only anchor is a faith based argument of 'muh feels'

But isn't your atheism which is based on an act of defiance, based on "muh feels" anyway?

If you choose to be atheist for the sake of being defiant against a God who is not self-evident then you are basing your opinion on feelings and not scientific fact or possibilities.

Is it not more logical to be agnostic and say that you doubt that there is any God because he is not self-evident? I'm not saying that you have to believe in God, but the denial in the possibility of the supernatural or of God outright isn't a scientific conclusion, it's also based on feelings just as much as any other religious fundamentalist.

Why would the teapot be so small? It seems a pretty bad teapot.

>But isn't your atheism which is based on an act of defiance, based on "muh feels" anyway?
No, it is based on finding the truth. If we hold the world at ransom we should be theoretically able to force God's hand, thus making him reveal himself.

This is also my answer to agnosticism. It does not have an end game. I have to know, so this is my move. I am not against the supernatural, I welcome it.

You seem to be assuming my intentions before you even ask what they are.

And when it exist user ? What are the factors of existence ?

Actually the shrink and inquisitor lay their eyes on you when you are religious of a religion they don't like, while atheists get ignored.

It's a non-argument anyway. If we were living in the year 1700 and someone had suggested to Bertrand Russell that infra-red light was a real thing. He would have scoffed and refused to explore the possibility.

>No, it is based on finding the truth. If we hold the world at ransom we should be theoretically able to force God's hand, thus making him reveal himself.


Kek, if that's your reasoning behind it, then your hopes are vain and are likely based purely on the assumption that the supernatural would end up being connected to a monotheistic God.

What if it's a pantheon of Gods who give no shits? What if it's just some subtle manipulating energy-based demons that are involved here?

Your atheism is based on the theory that you might be able to force God's hand, when you have no idea what the existence of the supernatural itself would mean if it turned out to be real?

>You seem to be assuming my intentions before you even ask what they are.

No more than you assume what the theoretical "God" would be provoked by.

Willful blind belief in atheism when you know that there is the possibility that the supernatural exists is willful ignorance. Are you sure you're even an atheist at all?

also mean for

Are you agnostic about unicorns?

There's no evidence of the supernatural and the accounts of it we have are (mostly) proven to be false.

That makes it so unlikely that you don't have to treat it as a possibility until there is proof.

What religion is it where you don't give a fuck if God exists? I don't care at all if he does. If I knew he existed I still wouldn't change my behavior. He seriously says it's either his way or burn for eternity like a tire fire. Who would worship something like that? Semitic religions are basically satanic death cults. They worship a cruel overlord and just can't fucking wait for him to come back and incinerate the earth. God is fucking Cthulu.

>What if it's a pantheon of Gods who give no shits?
Then in an act of destruction we would prove that we are free from them and as such they are irrelevant to our causal existence which is the same as not existing.

>Your atheism is based on the theory that you might be able to force God's hand
We have no other way to verify his existence. It is our only chance. Therefore a worthwhile endeavour.

>Willful blind belief in atheism when you know that there is the possibility that the supernatural exists is willful ignorance.
No it isn't. Atheism is based on lack of evidence. I am principally open to any realities but so far they are illusive.

I'm an agnostic atheist and i believe that all the "gods" are just ayys

Apatheist

>Are you agnostic about unicorns?

There were Siberian Unicorns.

you'll be needing these.

I thought that for a while.
Are you talking about other word lamos or interdimentional lamos?

So you hedge your bets and insist on not saying that unicorns don't exist? Just because no one has ever proved they exist doesn't mean they don't right?


I think you've misunderstood the "scientific persective".

>We have no other way to verify his existence. It is our only chance. Therefore a worthwhile endeavour.

You don't know if that's true or not. Another reason why agnosticism makes more sense.

>No it isn't. Atheism is based on lack of evidence. I am principally open to any realities but so far they are illusive.

By that definition you are not a True Atheist, you are an Agnostic-Atheist.

Not sure why you think poking the bear would be a good idea though.

Deism and See? Finland makes the most sense so far.

>I still wouldn't change my behavior. He seriously says it's either give me your money or get shot in the head. Who would listen to something like that?

t. 14 year-old

Just because there was an animal with a horn doesnt make it a unicorn. Narwhals and rhinos aren't either.

So God is a black guy?

You're completely backwards in understanding God and spirituality. You are a fool.

>You don't know if that's true or not. Another reason why agnosticism makes more sense.
Agnosticism resigns itself to inaction. I cannot accept this.

>By that definition you are not a True Atheist, you are an Agnostic-Atheist.
There are no 'True Atheists'. Are you trying to shoot fish in a barrel here?

>Not sure why you think poking the bear would be a good idea though.
How can I be afraid of an impotent or at least transcendental God?

Its called atheism by not knowing, there are other religions where instead of adopting a behaviour, you do a spiritual practice to reap a benefit, and youre guided by your experiences as opposed to dogma.

TLDR: Atheism from ignorance.

>You're completely backwards
Please show how. I am curious.

>Agnosticism resigns itself to inaction. I cannot accept this.

No it doesn't. It just means accepting a lack of knowledge.

>There are no 'True Atheists'.

Yes there are.

>How can I be afraid of an impotent or at least transcendental God?

That's an assumption based on a lack of knowledge.

Ignore him straya, read about gnosticism, that religion also thinks yhvh is a trap.

Agnosticism is bullshit. It says we can't have any knowledge about God. But that also means that one of the characteristics of God is that humans can't have knowledge about him. So agnosticism says that we can't know anything about God in the same breath as it defines him. If that isn't the logical fallacy of a lifetime I don't know what is.

thats like asking how god himself lost to Iron charriots as written in the bible.

Because churches (not religion/spirituality mind you) is a cultural ideology and basically a meme.

You will not find God through a microscope. You are narrow minded and short sighted with absolutely no understanding of Faith or spiritual awakenings.

Ignorance is no excuse either.

>Agnosticism is bullshit. It says we can't have any knowledge about God

Is it really saying that? I always got the impression it was saying that there is a lack of knowledge about God for some people.

Once you open yourself up to the possibility that God could exist, I assume you might be more open to the possibility that others have been affected by God, and that you could be too.

>It just means accepting a lack of knowledge.
Why would anyone rest in this state? That makes no sense. Where there is a chance you must push forward.

>Yes there are.
True Atheism is a dogmatic position. We do not know what we do not know.

>That's an assumption based on a lack of knowledge.
Oh really. And how would I come about this knowledge or at least identify my lack thereof?

after hearing hundreds of hours of atheist scientists debating with priests or with sciencists who believe in god, I came to conclusion, that religion is cancer and all of us should take steps to make it dissapear.

However, I believe, that in the future, thanks to better education, better living standarts etc. it will disapear as we know it.

You know, it made sense to believe in god in 2 century, when you worked whole your life on some rice field or something. Their lives were shit, so instead of making their live better, they insisted that after death, they will be in heaven or something like that..

or when lighting made fire, it made sense at that time, that god got angry at them or whatever..
Now on the other hand..

>Why would anyone rest in this state? That makes no sense.

Accepting that you have a lack of knowledge doesn't mean resting in this state. It means you just have a lack of knowledge, and knowing that you can proceed to fulfill what you lack.

>True Atheism is a dogmatic position. We do not know what we do not know.

That is my point.

>Oh really. And how would I come about this knowledge or at least identify my lack thereof?

I don't know, but it's still an assumption based on a lack of knowledge.

>no understanding of Faith or spiritual awakenings
>no understanding of blind obediance or muh feels

Thanks Zoro. I am aware of this and sympathetic to this view. But so far I have not found my spiritual awakening. Of course I will continue to look for it.

Kek is the only God you need :^)

Those who are stuck in their short sighted cages are the ones who are blind. You have been deceived by the schemes of Satan.

Not that you'll understand any of this because you don't know what I'm talking about.

Bumping for an actual, legitimate response to this serious enquiry.

Bible bashing may disappear but religions based on personal experience won't.

Humans are about four hairs away from being chimps. The vast majority of people are dumb as shit dirt farming peasants. That's why they are called commoners. Even if you did eliminate religion they would find new ones to kill each other over.

That being said those people are really the only people that matter in the end. Intelligent people, for all intents and purposes, don't breed at all. Being "smart" is pretty much a death sentence genetically. It's an outlier and it always has been. This is just they way it is and will be for ever as far as we are concerned.

>It means you just have a lack of knowledge, and knowing that you can proceed to fulfill what you lack.
No, agnosticism is fatalism accepting that we can never know whether God exists. But I think there is a chance we can, and Atheism is a only way to force God's hand in away that is meaningful.

I am curious where we go form here. Why did you post a cross in the OP image? Will you defend yourself now because I think that I have.

>Why did you post a cross in the OP image?

Clickbait.

So what awakens you?
Just get your butt into proper gnostic meditation to fish for experiences, I can give you a few of my techniques if you want.

You sound 15 who's just hearing atheist "arguments" for the first time.

Very well.

Are you satisfied with my responses?

>this is pretty pointless…why does it matter what medicine that other people take?

>this is pretty pointless... why does it matter how much poison is in this vital source of water?

>this is pretty pointless…why does it matter that anyone believes I am not even human?

there could be a lot of reasons to care about what other people do say think or believe, but it really boils down to whether or not you care about other people, else who you even classify as people.

>I can give you a few of my techniques if you want.
I am curious but also consider myself well read.

I have experience with meditation especially Zen quite successfully. My main barrier with going further is that I cannot quiet the stream pulling me further into exploring new things, for even the sake of distractions.

and you sound like some edgy 35 year old virgin who likes little boys.

This one never gets old. A lot of atheists in fact I'd be willing to guess most were raised in religious households and went to church as kids. They probably didn't "come out" as atheist until they were in their 20s.

I'm 40 now and I went to church with my parents until I moved away from home at 18. When I was young I felt like everything I was being told in church was bullshit so like a closeted gay Republican goes super kill all fags straight I went full on super religious to hide my secret shame. It wasn't until my mid 20s that I admitted to myself that I didn't believe in god.

>I'm not making that argument, I'm saying that despite that, why would you rule out the supernatural as a possibility?
Because I've never seen it and I never will.

I stopped caring after you assigned meanings to words based on how you feel about them.

Any basic study of psychology shows that people inherently want to be led, pretending like the believe in God is somehow due to stupidity and not something natural is completely stupid.

Religion still remains as a strong and significant part of our lives and culture, and it's not going away any time soon.

Islam for example, is growing at an incredible rate. Christianity still is growing everywhere, including in China. You will never get rid of it.

>Intellectuals

Pic related is you

>I am talking about those who identify themselves as Atheists, because the true definition of Atheism is the denial of the possibility of the supernatural whatsoever. Is it not far more logical to identify yourself as Agnostic instead of Atheists?
You are not exacly right here. Atheism means "I don't believe in god", agnostic means "I can't know for sure". It's not mutually exclusive. I'm agnostic atheist: I don't think I can know for sure, but I don't believe in God.

The same way you can be an agnostic theist or gnostic atheist or even gnostic theism.

>I'm agnostic atheist: I don't think I can know for sure, but I don't believe in God.

Maybe I was getting those definitions wrong.

Thanks anyway, I agree that your stance makes sense anyway.

>I stopped caring after you assigned meanings to words based on how you feel about them.
Excuse me?

All you did was call me names and refuse to address my arguments.

If you want to clarify your terms I will work with whatever definitions you want.

You want to beat up a spectre.

Well the most basic would be meditating on your physical heart.
Then there's spiritual heart, its kind of in the center of your chest and gives you feels, and even helps you make decisions sometimes.
Then you simply concentrate on sensing.
And finally love your own being while laying on bed, you have to invest lots of love so as to put yourself in a trance. This one triggered a very vivid experience for me.

And like all leftist atheists, you display such hatred for God and resort to vile insults and lashing out at even the mere mention of Christ.

There's a reason for that. Later in life, after this phase passes, you'll come to a crossroads. Where you either realize the horrible deception you've been led by and see the light of Christ, or you fall to the works of darkness forever, separated from God. And even though you hate me now because of this marxist brainwashing, I still do not want that for you, because you do not understand the consequences of that path.

Forgive him, Father, for he knows not what he does.

Saved. I will also do my own research.

I salute you fellow wanderer.

Theism is the belief that a god/gods exist. Atheism has to be the "belief" they don't. I think a lot of science minded people brand themselves atheists but aren't. It not that god(s) can't exist, its that there is zero evidence for it. There are plenty of things that can exist. It's up to the religious people to prove it. Belief doesn't enter into it. From the tome of all knowledge, Wikipedia; "Belief is the state of mind in which a person thinks something to be the case, with or without there being empirical evidence to prove that something is the case with factual certainty." For me, belief is unfounded knowledge, and plays no part in my life. Invent a word for trust in the scientific method of approaching regarding facts and knowledge, and that will be my "ism".

...

>Atheists insist that the Supernatural does not exist as long as they haven't seen it
FTFY. I'll take proven working physics over unproven antiphysical events anyday.

(((atheists)))
Kukism is literally Jewish propaganda.

I don't think you know what projecting means.

Yes.

Also, I've heard the exact same shitty phrase uttered multiple times. Most notably by Stephen Fry. If you were provided with irrefutable proof of God and eternal damnation if you do not worship him, you would have to be the biggest fucking idiot in the world not to oblige. It isn't honorable to assume that you are more wise than an omnipotent and omniscient being and act solely out of defiance in the same way that a particularly poorly-behaved child would.

Atheists are invariably tied down by their egos.

I am aware that believing in something is part of our brain.

However, you have to realize, how big progress we went through in the last 2000 years. 2000 years ago, it was ok to believe in god as i said earlier(lighting makes fire = god is mad at us for not sacrificing 10 sheeps etc).

Now, because of all the scientific reasoning it is NOT. And do you think brain will evolve in 2000 years? You this stuff takes time right?

>However, I believe, that in the future, thanks to better education, better living standarts etc. it will disapear as we know it.
doubtful

If anything, this only leads to the disappearance of atheism. Rather than a flash of reason or enlightenment, education or improved living standards absent 'god' is a deadend. I dont' just say that philosophically, I say that based on trends in statistics. The people you want to see in the future don't reproduce.

I could speculate as to why, but it really doesn't matter. If you spent hundreds of hours following debates then the hows or whys you believe better education or living standards will do what you think it will are probably irrelevant; you're well established in your position.

Because I don't believe in your god of the gaps bullshit. And I realize that all man made religions exists to submit the lesser minded peasants and for prelates to justify their degeneration.

So I chose to not believe in any form of magic whatsoever,of course I'd love to be proven wrong, unlike you retarded christcucks.

You just repeated your life story as advice for someone else.

I am pretty sure that fits the bill.

If you never had an epiphany you're closer from god if you deny it. God hate centrists

atheism is defined as a lack of belief in God. you purposefully tried to frame the discussion with a definition that's harder to defend. Very dishonest.

no, I am interested in your stance on this matter

So many deceived.

>You just repeated your life story as advice for someone else.

No I didn't and that's not what projecting means.

Have fun with your satanic "meditations".

...

Then ask a question.

>Have fun with your satanic "meditations".
It seems like I just found your own unconscious impulses.

But of course, I am the satanic one, not you.

>What religion is it where you don't give a fuck if God exists?
Buddhism doesn't require you to believe in a god, just that you follow Buddha's recommendations.

The evidence is existence itself. Religion spawned from the question "Where do we come from?". And once you ask yourself why there was a big bang, and why there is the thing that caused it, you will begin to understand that there can't be a scientific answer.

>So many deceived.

Deceived by who? They tried to deceive me with religious horseshit as a kid, but they failed. I decided to not believe in this garbage on my own. Braindead brainwashed religioncuck.

That's because 'why' is a ridiculous anthropocentric question. You accept the answer which is more flattering to your ego.

Why do you think it is a dead end?

You'll see eventually.

>It seems like I just found your own unconscious impulses.

I've been down that road before.

>Deceived by who?

The prince of the powers of the air.

There is no specific purpose to our existence. We just are.

>I've been down that road before.
If you think you have the 'final answer' you are undoubtably wrong.

Any being who promises this to you is taking you for a ride.

God is transcendent. He has no reason to intervene in your life to appease your feelings.

Because non theist people don't reproduce. Sorry I didn't make that more clear, but thanks for your patience.

And to make it more clear, sure, there are plenty who have families, but the replacement rate is terrible. Rather than growing by virtue of making more people, atheism grows by virtue of converts, and even that is diminishing in a lot of respects. It's still growing fast, but as a small proportion of worldviews it is easy to double a sample of 1.

See: Shall the Religious Inherit the Earth?: Demography and Politics in the Twenty-First Century

Nice straw man

>The prince of the powers of the air.

What the fuck, I don't even

You know nothing of God or Holiness.

I'm an atheist because I do not believe there is enough evidence to warrant the existence of a deity, and I feel that there is more evidence for the contrary.
I still fully support christian traditions in my country

...

See? Ignorance.

>You know nothing of God or Holiness.
And you do?

Demonic manipulation of your emotions is not 'holy'. They want you to trust until it is too late.

More like that's something so fucking dumb I have no reason to know. You're out of your mind dude, you're isis tier brainwashed.

I wouldn't say so, all things in the universe have had some cause or reason? The apple falls from the tree because the earth pulls it down because of gravity.
Asking why gravity exists is just the next step.
I'm not claiming that there is a bigger plan behind everything, but simply saying everything exists in this universe for no reason at all, it just does and there was nothing before and nothing after and the laws of nature are also random contradicts the assumption that something doesn't spawn from nothing.

Science is not about knowing for certain that something is true or not. It's about being certain beyond resonable doubt. It's like with a court case: all witnesses could be lying, DNA evidence could be tampered with, video footage could be doctored and everything could simply conspire against the accused... But it's not a resonable assumption, isn't it?

>I'm an atheist because I do not believe there is enough evidence to warrant the existence of a deity

Always the same mistake. Trying to find God through a microscope. No understanding of spirituality or Faith.

Many materialist so called Christians do the same.

>And you do?

Yes. As much as I can.

>Demonic manipulation of your emotions is not 'holy'.

The one who wants to engage in satanic meditations and hates God is lecturing me on demonic manipulation. How absurd.