I recently read this book and was shocked to discover that it's apparently believed by most people that Heinlen was praising fascism with it. This caught me off guard because while ST had a lot of themes (civic Republicanism, pro military, libertarianism, anti-communism, pro conservative values, etc.) I never got the impression that the Federation was supposed to be fascist.
What did any of you think?
Other urls found in this thread:
youtube.com
archive.fo
twitter.com
I always took it as a civic democracy.
It's not a democracy though. Not every adult is allowed to vote.
What Heinlein did in all his books was basically take different worldviews to their logical conclusion.
So Moon is a Harsh Mistress is the Libertarian ideal, Starship Troopers is the right wing ideal, Stranger in a Strange Land is sort of the left wing ideal.
It's not fascist, but it is pretty authoritarian. It reflects back to his days as a navyman.
He is correct though that universal-franchise democracy is pretty retarded
It was very nationalistic and militaristic, the "nation" simply being a united earth. Its not addressed much directly, so its hard to parse how the society is compared to the military,
Like, is the book reflecting a fascist xenophobia across the entire culture, or is it simply the fact that the guy is going through marine training.
In the US, the story of a person going into the marines and a person who ducks around and stays home or goes to college would present radically different perspectives of their society to outsiders.
It is believed to be fascist by people that have never read it.
There is no nationalism in the book, just one world NWO we iz human an sheeit globalism.
>Stranger in a Strange Land is sort of the left wing ideal
Interesting. I got more of a mystical/religious ideal than leftwing.
Also it's the same plot as Moon is a Harsh Mistress. Omnipotent mike sacrifices himself to save the world with Old man common sense as his foil.
It's a democratic Republic, the franchise (voting rights) are limited to citizens and to be a citizen you have to serve (not necessarily in the military. In their world you can get citizenship through public service, volunteering, holding office, etc.)
There was a time in the US when only landowners could vote. Did this make the US fascist?
Well the reason I say it was part of the left wing ideal is because that was the book that was pretty much the foundation for the hippie 60's
By far his most famous book
so like every historical democracy ever then
Buenos Aires was totally a false flag though.
>By far his most famous book
Well, until Starship Troopers became a movie. (I still need to read that one).
I think it fails as a leftwing ideal though. Mike represents transcendent self-improvement. Leftists tend to destroy themselves through their actions and disdain those that work to improve their standing in life.
I can see the whole, 'free love' thing but even that fails as that one beta male gets cucked until he sorts his shit out and becomes more of a man.
If you enjoy the movie you gotta read the book. They're really nothing much alike but both fantastic for what they are.
Starship Troopers is so fucking over rated.
It's a decent story and presents a some what romanticized version of the military/soldiers. THAT'S FUCKING IT.
Yeah what he said: The movie is literally nothing like the book.
#NotAllBugs
>They're really nothing much alike
I know, I've heard. I was just saying the movie has made it such that modern day more people have heard, "Starship Troopers" than have heard of Stranger.
I'm sure I'll enjoy the book since I enjoyed his other works so much.
> this is what speculative fiction does
> OP cannot into drawing his own conclusions
He's a good bug! Dindu nuffin...
>DENISE RICHARDS
THAT'S FUCKING IT
The government in Starship Troopers came about when law utterly failed and ex soldiers formed vigilante mobs to bring back order,and only trusted other soldiers to hold authority. That is why only ex soldiers can vote,since they put their money where their mouth is and offered their lives to preserve the state. Sort of like Cops and Assholes:if you ain't the former you most certainly are the latter in their eyes.
I found the Way to Raise Children interesting, like puppies to be paddled when disobedient so pain reinforces the lesson. Having watched kids game the system with social services,accusing parents falsely to get their way,I wonder how effective applied formal pain would be in curbing the sociopathy in today's youth.
and power armour... the suits are fucking awesome.
I hated the movie, they left out the most important part of the fucking MOBILE INFANTRY.
Was the fact that the suits made a single trooper basically ironman.
The movie was just regular foot soliders wandering around getting eaten by bugs.
it wasn't specifically only pain, it was using negative reinforcement to link behaviours to the kids survival instinct.
It's a democratic meritocracy. Just because a government doesn't have universal voting doesn't mean its automatically fascist.
Resident Aliens don't vote in the USA.
They are not citizens.
This series is superior.
Its not.
Heinlein was a military veteran i think of the US Navy. He was a patriot.
Its just that SJW's have labeled any type of conservatism as racist in order to de-legitimatize it.
Anti FA movements are pure bullshit.
Oops , facist not racist (although they do that as well)
I hate the auto correct feature
exactly. I think a big problem normies have with Starship Troopers is that they don't understand the perspective (probably because they've never been in any sort of discipline based, strongly heirarchical organization like a military before).
Soldiers are molded into a particular mindset. The protagonist, Rico, is molded into that mindset during his training. Of course he has a tougher, more militaristic view of the world: he's in the fucking military.
If only Heinlein took the red pill
I would like to know more
>believed by most people that Heinlen was praising fascism with it
wat?
Source that.
Can't wait for the movie.
I like Forever War a lot, but on rereading the serialization is really obvious. Forever Peace is a really good book, and I'm surprised it hasn't been optioned for a movie or miniseries yet. Hell, all of Haldeman's stuff should be optioned.
yes, but Starship Troopers kicked off the genre pretty much. It's more important.
Reminder that Starship Troopers is being rebooted as a new movie franchise.
>inb4 the aliens are just misunderstood galactic refugees who really just need humanities help
SPACE MUHRINES!!!!!!!!!!!!!
that's what's important
also the movie sucked dick
Its not facist. Like people in the thread write, it is basically a social democracy for those that serve their country.
Why do they keep remaking Verhoeven's stuff without improving on any of it?
This is the only good scene from both Total Recall and Robocop. I just know they're going to remake Basic Instinct with the woman as the main character.
(((they))) do it for the shekels