I was debating with my leftie brother on american economics...

I was debating with my leftie brother on american economics, he kept saying democrats have fixed the economy while the republicans have always increased the debt and ruined it.

Can you guys redpill me on obummer and democrat economics?

Other urls found in this thread:

fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN
zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-03/these-are-9-zero-hedge-charts-showing-obamas-recovery-angered-washington-post
weeklystandard.com/no-country-for-burly-men/article/17737
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Obama added more debt than all previous Presidents combined.

/Thread

bumpy, anyone got some redpill graphs or links on democrats?

That is what I know as well, but is there some hyper-super-duper objective source for this, like a graph from any alphabet agency?

actually it's the other way around. everytime republicans get in and get it moving in the right direction some democrat gets in and ruins it

Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis...

fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN

>fred.stlouisfed.org/series/GFDEBTN
interesting, but how about the correlation to 2008 economic depression? Lefties say that democrats tried to fix that one big time, that obummer inherited george bush's iraqi war-torn economy and additionally that obummer is not to blame for economic depression

WITNESSED

No. You should read books.

congress is often controlled by republicans, with a democrat president.

Facts are not kind to republicans, because republicans are not conservatives. They keep acting like their policies don't have decades of examples as to how they fail, and somehow people keep believing all their shit.

George Bush was just a really bad president

He is kinda right on this matter.

i dont know much about the 2008 depression tb.h but that may be true. just like bush wasn't responsible for the dotcom bubble popping and clinton wasn't responsible for the good economy during his presidency because of everyone buying computers. sometimes they just get lucky or get fucked and it has nothing to do with their policies

He is only partly wrong. Republicans have increased the debt and Bush DID fuck the economy. However, Obama was a failure of a president and ALSO increased the debt. Bill Clinton was simply in the right place at the right time during the dotcom bubble.

Bush was repsoniblie for the recession. He pushed for the "everyone american owning a home dream and it lead to predatory lending practices from banks that got theirs and then cut and ran.

Your brother has died. His body is a leaf on the breeze. When you think you hear words, it is just the wind passing through his skull.

This. People like to credit the president for shit they dont have a say in. If you look at Congress, who actually makes the budget and policy, a lot of times it's opposite majority party than the president, because the pendulum swings blah blah.
That being said, Obama added so much debt by himself, and it didn't really kick the economy back in gear, despite what Obamaleaf is about to post about unemployment.

Wrong.

He's not, the people who are truly responsible are Clinton who deregulated the banks so they could do whatever they wanted and gamble with people's deposits and alan greenspan, who lowered interest rates so mortgages were cheap, which drove up house prices.
But it's not as if obama actually fixed anything, he and the FED just blew an even bigger bubble to replace the one that popped. And this time it's not just one asset class, everything is in a bubble; stocks, bonds and housing

care to elaborate? The housing bubble is what caused the great recession. Bush pushed for everyone to own a house. Banks began to lend to people who they KNEW were going to default

The reason why the national debt increases during Republican presidencies is because Republicans tend to cut taxes and let the economy grow. There's less money going into the government and because not only Democrats, but random local and state governments want to keep whatever programs/benefits going therefore the debt increases.When a democrat is back in office, taxes are raised and the debt goes down. But when in that period from when Republicans take office to when the Democrats take office the economy grows at a more rapid rate then when Democrats were Office. The reason why the economy is getting better is because of the efforts of Republicans in expanding business and now with Trump in Office, the DOW is the highest it's ever been and it's been increasing since Trump took office. Business and Investors are excited and they're putting more money into the system. There's also the fact that Trump is working to bring manufacturing and blue collared jobs back to America, so just imagine the economic boom. So to sum it all up, Democrats may decrease debt but it's the Republicans that make the economy grow.

/thread

The fed lowered rates massively, and printed money, that is what "saved the economy".

Also Obama has almost doubled the debt, no president has more.

Interesting, thanks for the redpills on the matter

wat

Also, thanks to the unchecked FED, we have been at the zero bound for 7 years now. Most recessions come in 8-10 year periods so we are due for one. When it hits, we are going to be fucked as we will have no way to stimulate borrowing

I'm surprised the autistic Canadian isn't posting here.

>Bush was repsoniblie for the recession.
republicans tried for years to reform fannie mae and freddie mac, but democrats refused. The failure of these government sponsored entities caused the recession. they were democrat run entities through and through.

hahah me too, brock musta scooped him up and tossed him into Sup Forums

i heard it was because of the government backing the banks on housing loans so they would just give loans to anybody since the government would pay it back if they couldn't. the guy at our local bank said he would have niggers come in and act like they made 300k per year and shit back then to get a really expensive house and he gave them loans. dunno if bush was behind that because i wasnt paying attention to the economy back then but he was a shit president so i wouldnt be surprised

Must have ignored that part during econ class. You got any articles I could read about it?

Thanks for the reply

>There's less money going into the government and because not only Democrats, but random local and state governments want to keep whatever programs/benefits going therefore the debt increases
What does it mean, less money going into government? Didn't catch this one

it would be a long post but to sum it up quick, this is the cycle that's been followed from clinton to now

1.low federal reserve interest rate = 2. boom = 3. distorts economy = 4. economy corrects and busts = back to 1 as a response.

the overall cost is the devaluation of the nations currency.

In so many words that is what happened and it caused MASSIVE defaulting of loans. People lost houses, companies went under our housing market still hasn't fully recovered.

This is unfortunately true, user, but that is the point. Well off whites succeed during cracked economies, whereas poor blacks and spics suffer en masse and are hit much harder.

This is the whole point.. the economy gets fucked up but we whites benefit.

Under the Obama administration, they say that unemployment percentage has decreased by a lot, but they Liberals fail to point out that the numbers of Americans in the workforce have dropped by 15 million people on account of Obama. There's also the fact that Obama had cracked down tightly on Coal and energy production and all across the nation, especially for me specifically who lives in Virginia, we have seen an increase an electricity pricing. West Virginia used to vote blue all the time and the only reason it hasn't is because the hippie progressives have basically crippled a huge portion of their economy, which is coal mining. Obama has also broken the trend of Democrats decreasing the national debt because he undertook the costly system of Obamacare that his increases in taxes simply could not pay for. His system had failed and we've suffered for it. Now with Trump in office, he's likely to fix a lot of mistakes and work not for just the Republican party, but for the people. Trump is a populist and that's how he's always run. Good times are ahead with Trump, you should tell your brother that.

That was Clinton you retard

tax revenue, government bonds and loans. Government doesn't produce anything, just collects money basically

Less money in the government means an increase in debt, that's what I meant

People adjust their beliefs to fit their emotions, not the other way around. He will not change his mind until you make him feel terrible for his opinion. He is a sheep, ainult lammas laseb ennast pügada.

Whoa don't cut me with that edge

You know nothing about economics. Instead of coming to Sup Forums looking for things to parrot, grab a book and actually learn.

Or lurk /biz/ and do the exact opposite of what they say.

>Now with Trump in office, he's likely to fix a lot of mistakes and work not for just the Republican party, but for the people

lol why are Trump shills so deluded? Trump is crony capitalist who is only in office to help himself and his buddies

He's not wrong though. I'm in the top 5% of income so I'm going to be doing great. The poors will not do great. That's fine though, if you make under six digits it's unlikely you matter.

From what his message has been and from his actions, I don't see that to be the case. He's working to keep jobs in the United States and jobs are important. His message still stands with us and with him, he's fighting with legality to do it. I'd rather not be lectured on what capitalism is from an Australian with a progressive sort of government that still adheres to a monarch thousands of miles away. He's benefiting us and hope is being restored. So instead of berating people on the internet, maybe you should go out and fight this "Crony Capitalism" and your progressive and monarch adhering government.

what do you do

my momma told me australians is always ornery cause they got all them snakes and emus and no guns to shoot them with

Congress controls the budget. Republicans controlled the congress the last time the budget was balanced and the economy was growing strong.

The Democrats like to borrow and spend for welfare.

The Republicans like to borrow and spend for warfare.

Bankers win either way.

Vote third party if you have a problem with it.

Agreed. Bush was just an all around awful president
I believe the meme that Dubya didn't really care to be president and Jeb! was the one who always wanted to be pres.
Dubya let Cheney, Rumsfeld, and Bolton run his ass around, and he took a backseat to many of their positions
he legit was just a bullet sponge for the medias and the people's ire, but at the same time his spinelessness was still enough to anger many people
In fact, in many ways, he was a dem. The most republican thing about him was his admin's insatiable taste for war. He sent so much fucking aid to africa, we were basically sustaining those aids ridden niggers in the early 00's

All around awful desu senpai baka

The biggest thing he mentioned really comes down to the size of government and how it's hard to shrink it once it's grown. Things like Obamacare are bad for competition & are harmful to rates, while being incredibly hard to replace once it's put into place. This is bad for the economy and requires money. Conservatives generally run on campaigns where they advertise lower taxes that than do not compensate the large size of government. It always hurts a president's party's reputation to cut a publicly funded service thus adding on more reasons to just run deficits.

The economy is a somewhat seperate issue from the governments deficit. The corporate tax rate has been maintained by presidents for a while so it really comes down to other incentives. My personal option on this topic is that it really has to do less than with either party than both sides tend to try to take credit for and really depends on the econic cycle of where we are at. There are obviously some decisions that impact where that cycle is headed though & how protected people are from a financial disaster.

It's not all that easy, but lemme go back to Reagan because that's about as old as most of us are.

The backdrop is post WWII where Europe was a smoking pile of debris and Japan was a glowing pile of debris. The rest of the developed world needed to rebuild and their only choice was American manufacturing. This coincided with unionization rates climbing from nearly 0% to just over 25%. American workers benefit tremendously from the power of collective bargaining and leverage that into ever rising wages. After a few decades this starts bringing year over year inflation to damn near 10%.

Enter Reagan, or to be more specific Paul Volker. Volker had a controversial plan to break inflation by increasing the federal interest rate to 20%. It worked but had consequences by making large purchases prohibitively expensive. People couldn't get loans for cars: tens of thousands of layoffs in the auto industry. People couldn't get loans for houses: no work in construction or appliance manufacturing. It should be noted that during this time Reagan cut taxes but increased spending and really revolutionized the current paradigm of deficit spending.

Following Reagan, Bush I (the last true fiscal conservative) was forced to raise taxes to begin approaching the new outrageous national debt. This is a complete reversal of his "No New Taxes" pledge, basically handing the next election to Clinton.

Clinton's section deserves a fucking book. He appointed Greenspan and eliminated Glass-Steagal earning the love of Wall Street and spurring tremendous capital investment. The Soviet Union collapsed and gave us a peace dividend that he used to balance the budget and apply a surplus towards the national debt. He signed NAFTA to bring consumers cheap shit and inflate corporate profits. The Internet happened and created a huge new economy.

I personally feel that the Bush II tax cuts were a terrible mistake. The Iraq War and the Great Recession still would have happened, cont.

sauce zero hedge

Calling his brother a Canadian is going too far

can't wait for someone to post that unemployment graph

> muh eco recovery

zerohedge.com/news/2016-06-03/these-are-9-zero-hedge-charts-showing-obamas-recovery-angered-washington-post

kek

Public debt is irrelevant

only Private debt matters

but I argue we would have been in much better shape to address it.

People get rightly attack TARP, but for the wrong reasons. If you read about FDR's first months in office, he basically threw shit at the wall to see how it would work. Banks would randomly be ordered closed and would have arbitrary withdrawal limits placed. It wasn't until he started creating government jobs via the Public Works Administration that economists started realising Keynesian economics worked. TARP merely gave money to the banks to loosen the credit crunch, and likely gave about half of what was actually necessary.

you're an idiot

the energy crisis only happened because OPEC raised oil prices because they were mad at Israel after the Yom Kippu war

Reagan did nothing to help the economy besides increasing spending

Otherwise Reagan was a total disaster as president from deregulating wall street to amnestying millions of fucking Mexicans.

public debt becomes relevant when the government tries to pay it off (by taking money out of the economy) and causing a recession since there's less money to go around

Clinton looks better than he deserves because two years into his first term, the Republicans took over Congress and wouldn't let him do much of anything.

>economists started realising Keynesian economics worked.

People didn't realize Keynesianism worked until after WW2

The American economy never really recovered until the massive US government spending during the buildup for war

After that the economy continued to grow thanks to massive works projects like Eisenhower's Nation Highway System (which injected hundreds of billions of dollars into the economy)

Ironically only Hitler ever practiced Keynesian economics correctly, and yet was completely uninfluenced by Kenes. Instead Hitler drew from teh German Historical school of economics which was very similar to Americas old "American School" which started thanks to Hamilton

Wrong

There is only less money if the government raises taxes.

In reality during a recession you are supposed to lower taxes and increase spending.

only when the economy has recovered do you raise taxes.

The energy crisis wasn't the only thing going on in the US economy at that time, you dunce. Breaking inflation was critical for business to plan future investment, and Volker's plan certainly worked but at the expense of the unemployment rate. I didn't talk about the S&L issue because it was small potatoes just like your pea brain.

actually they helped Clinton pass all sorts of bad shit from NAFTA to deregulating media to deregulating wall street even more

>2008-2009 Collapse
>debt skyrockets afterward
I'm sure that is just a coincidence.

I'm not arguing that FDR was influenced by Keynes, but rather that economists noticed the parallels and began implementing the ideas as they gained influence and power within academia and government over the following decades.

That's why Parliament culture is implemented ZOG culture, failing Parliaments waste good Presidency. Goyims think they elect a leader, but he can't do shit. Only based Rulers can subdue biased Parliaments for the rght cause, like Putin, Assad or Berlusconi in his best.
The ultimate RedPill is that democracy does not work.

It was the only relevant crisis in the country

There's a reason you had to line up ten blocks to get gas

>Volker's plan certainly worked

It worked in crippling the economy for a short period of time for no reason.

When Reagan started deficit dpending again the economy recovered.

However he cut all sorts of shit (let psychos out of their wards for some reason, cut infrastructure spending) and then did enacted other horrible policies like increasing payroll and social security taxes which affect workers while cutting capital gains taxes which mainly benefit wall street.

> S&L issue because it was small potatoes just like your pea brain

Oh yes crashing the economy is "no big deal"

But at least Bush put hundreds of S&L bankers in jail. The reason you never hear about the S&L crisis is because wall street actually got punished for committing securities fraud. I'm sure that's why wallstreet rallied behind Clinton afterwards.

underrated kek

> economists noticed the parallels and began implementing the ideas as they gained influence and power within academia

Yes I know

How is that debased Ruble treating you?

In 1991 Yeltsin the Traitor subdued Russian economy to American, that's why now America tries to collapse it, when Putin the Great pulling it out from othercountry's dominance.

BOOM.
THIS.
NOTHING.
ELSE.

THAT IS HOW IT IS DONE GENTLEMEN.

CTRL-F FEDERAL RESERVE 2 of 2
> not nearly enough.

/THREAD

you're being a very bad goyim

>jewyorktimes
>jewtube
Libshit, please. Fake news! Sad!

It wasn't purely Obama. It was Bush fucking up the economy, a war, and the stimulus failing to return as much as promised. The American people are to blame because we want to spend more and have less taxes. Bush holds most of the blame but blaming him for everything is dumb, but not as dumb as blaming Obama.

>There is only less money if the government raises taxes.

If the government raises taxes then they're still spending all that money they raised

If they're using those taxes to pay off debt then they don't have that money to put back into the economy

I'm sorry but your brother is correct. The Dems are the party of economists, the GOP are the party of dodgy salesmen. In America their strength comes mainly from the huge number of used car dealerships and payday lenders that financially support Republicans in droves at the state and local level.

Russia is a petrostate, which means it gets most of its money not from making high end products but selling the shit it digs out of the ground. Similar to Africa. Putin has been lucky with higher prices since his reign started (17 years ago lol) but Russia getting hit with the other side of the sword, lower oil prices for the past +2 years.

nope the crash was caused by securities fraud

interest rates are far lower now than they were during the mortgage bubble. In fact it's interest rates "going up" that would crash our economy today because all the toxic debt (loans given out to illegal aliens and blacks mostly) that backs still have on their balance sheets would come due and Wells Fargo, Citibank, Goldman Sachs, JP MorganChase, Bank of America, etc would all go under.

Then I would hope that Trump would let them all fucking die and we can undo that everything Obama has fucked up.

The government creates money at whim

When the banks crashed in 08 due to mortgage fraud Obama and the Fed created trillions out of nothing to make sure not a single Goldman Sachs Vice President lost his yacht

Yeltsin scrapped their entire manufacturing base leaving Russia with little domestic production left. All the resources were sold off to jewish bilionaires who monopolized the economy of the entire country bleeding everyone dry. After Putin took power in 2000 it took everything he had to "disprove" of the billionaire's political power and try to get Russia working again.

I agree in the sense that modern economists are neoliberals and wall street whores

therefore yes, the Democrats are the party of economists.

The stimulus was a disaster

weeklystandard.com/no-country-for-burly-men/article/17737

This article explains how half of the money went to feminist groups in industries that weren't ailing (female-heavy), and left out half of the money Obama had intended for hurting industries that were male-heavy (construction, etc.)

Basically, use this to point out to your bro how the stimulus was a disaster and did nothing and was hijacked by feminists.

Obama did inherit shit from Bush, but he did nothing good towards fixing it really

Are you seriously connecting drawing a line from collective bargaining driving up wages to inflation?

Conservatives everyone!

>I agree in the sense that modern economists are neoliberals and wall street whores
>therefore yes, the Democrats are the party of economists
Also accountants, stockbrokes, financial advisors, fiscal controllers, money types who don't get rich by fleecing ignorant hillbillies.

>a shill was triggered enough by that guys post to weigh in
go back to r*ddit

Unfortunately he is right. Republicans have always been about fiscal responsibility and cutting taxes. But they have found the tax cutting was easier the fiscal responsibility part. They cut taxes, but never made commensurate cuts to entitlements and military spending. In many cases, they cut taxes and massively increased military spending, running the deficit even higher.

USA controlls oil prices to destroy Russia, it's a lefty cause and pure clear fact. USA destroys markep and capitalism by this.

the correlation between the president’s actions and economy is minimal

The economy is not something that reacts quickly. Bush destroyed it. Obama seems he did okay fixing it but we still haven't seen the full fallout of his polices yet whenever a major change happens it takes at least two years to really see the effects.

Obama increased centralization in a complex system. His 'fixes' come with hidden cataclysmic costs.

>USA controlls oil prices to destroy Russia
Just like when the USSR crumbled from a decade of low oil prices?

The stiumulus was a disaster because almost nothing was spent (800 billion parsed out over 10 years, basically nothing) and what was spent was wasted on social justice nonsense.

Infrastructure spending declined immensely during the "Obama stimulus"

>Obama seems he did okay fixing it but we still haven't seen the full fallout of his polices yet whenever a major change happens it takes at least two years to really see the effects.
Leaving the door open for the Orange Cunt to fuck it all up without taking the blame, eh?

busted.jpg

Exactly. Defeat your inner occupation and Russians be able to breathe free too.

>Also accountants, stockbrokes, financial advisors, fiscal controllers, money types who don't get rich by fleecing ignorant hillbillies.

Fleecing the working class is the only way wallstreet stays in business you retarded neolib scum

International finance is inherently parasitic on actual productive people

Tht was caused by the housing market it had nothing to do with any president or war but the greed of consumerism

>just asking for that fucking faggot leaf with his folder to come and jerk it

>The government creates money at whim

No shit.

And to pay that money back they have to take it out of the economy again which in turn leads to a recession if it's overdone

Maybe Russia should stop depending on such a cheap source of income, and maybe sell stuff that does not come straight out of the ground. Cause believe it or not, other countries drill for and sell oil too.

"I'm herring good things about XYZ all I need is you to give me the go ahead and we can move your retirement over and see good yields this quarter

>it had nothing to do with any president

lol no
deregulation and neoliberalism started under Carter and reached its apex under Clinton

The biggest cause of the Housing bubble was the expansion of the Community Reinvestment act by Treasury Secretary Robert Rubin during the Clinton Administration.

He made it so you could lend out a mortgage to anyone with or without a pulse.