Obamacare

Explain to me why the affordable care act is a disaster. when Trump removes it, what will be the substitute?

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You will be able to buy health insurance at lower rates like you could before.

and i wont be charged a $200 a month existence tax

It is a disaster because it forces you to buy insurance even if you do not want it, which is money you would otherwise budget for your life/home/family.

Rich people can afford to just buy doctors outright, so there is no way to pull them into the system, so the system cannot sustain itself.

Because there is no way for market forces to work on the system (you are forced) the prices of everything have gone up.

Poor people who can't afford it get it for free, in some states. They get a fine for not buying it in most states. This fine is suppose to cover you not buying into the system, as your part on supporting other people in the system. But the prices are not controlled and the fines do not cover this.

It is a system that fails to do what it aims to do, and it punishes you for abstaining, which is itself part of the system which itself does not work.

THE GOOD
>23, still on parents plan(retired from state job, get it forever)
>my work offers it(software engineer) but this still saves me money till im 26

THE BAD
>co-pays for doctor visits used to cost $20-$30-$35 for first(primary care, normal doctor) second and third(specialist, referral, like a dermatologist) tier
>thanks to obongo-care they are now $30-$60-$90
>costs me $90 every month to see my dermatologist so i can keep getting my accutane to cure my hiroshima-tier acne

fuck the ACA i just want to have normal looking skin that isnt constantly opening up in lesions

>if you do not want it
I get that it is tyrannical for the government to force citizens to buy a consumer product like health insurance... that being said...

What kind of complete psychopath CHOOSES to not have health insurance? Do you really want to be bankrupted because of a slip-and-fall accident where you break your leg, or have some sort of chronic injury that you can't treat without falling into insolvency, through no fault of your own?

I mean it is your right to be an idiot and do these things, but if you have kids and they can't get healthcare you should be forced to give them to social services

Kids get Medicaid for 2 decades. I'm not sure what your saying here on that last part.

Sorry forgot to tag
If I slip and fall it's the fault of the company for making me slip, I'll be banking on that peepee money.

where did I say you fell at work?

>it snows
>you fall on ice and bust your ass and something breaks
>either suffer forever until you die or go get RAPED by the hospital bill

again to me that sounds retarded, maybe you can justify it somehow

the employer mandate was a massive kick to the balls. basically an employers is supposed to provide insurance if you work more than 30 hours a week. well employers were never going to do that so they slashed hours.

let's say you worked 38 hours a week baking bread before Obamacare, so now under Obamacare you lose 10 hours a week because your employer doesn't want to pay for insurance.

so basically because of Obamacare you lose a 1/3rd of your income and you still have to pay 150 a month for a shitty bronze package with terrible copays. you still have bills to pay so you have to get a shitty part time job that pays shit, so you're working more for less and you're forced to buy a shitty product.

under Obamacare it more profitable for a NEET worker to just say fuck it, work just enough to be in poverty and get the gibs from the government.

it fucking sucks

REPEAL AND REPLACE

>What kind of complete psychopath CHOOSES to not have health insurance?
Somebody so poor that they cannot afford it...?

Good thing it doesn't snow in my area.

It's only a "disaster" after several "conservative" states didn't get onboard. Trump isn't removing it. Congress, after a bajillion attempts to "repeal" it without anything to fill the gap, is still trying to "repeal" without anything to fill the gap. Conservative members of Congress were CLEARLY trying to repeal it for the last several years, without some sort of replacement. But now they actually care? Bullshit. They didn't have a plan then and they don't now.

Nobody who can profit from government gives a FUCK about anyone but themselves. That's it.

>get an infection
>fall anywhere and get hurt
>have any mishaps ever and get hurt
>get sick

the list goes on...

>Somebody so poor that they cannot afford it...?
by choose I meant choose when they actually have the option of getting it... poor people have no choice... well they have a choice, but they choose to be lazy and not help themselves by making more money

fuck you, it was a disaster from the start. cutting people hours and fucking with their income is a disaster.

>Explain to me why the affordable care act is a disaster.
People are not leading healthier lives, and the most unhealthy fucks around are paying a rate as if they were health, and passing the cost off onto everyone, instead of these fat fucks just dying.

It's an absolute disgrace this fat, FAT FUCK raised my healthcare premiums.

>What kind of complete psychopath CHOOSES to not have health insurance?

>explain to me
No. One-posting is spam. Why did you come here if you cannot discuss anything?

>but they choose to be lazy and not help themselves by making more money
Because there're just jobs sloshing around.

it was a tax

>by choose I meant choose when they actually have the option of getting it...
>goalpost moved

...

this is Paul's plan which Trump is backing. maybe you should take a look at it.

youtube.com/watch?v=8Dz3jzfyDRg

>Because there're just jobs sloshing around.
Software engineer here... if you were an excellent programmer you'd be hired on the spot almost anywhere.

>you have a choice of something when you don't have the option of choosing it

You're fucking retarded

>worring about healthcare

lol

the aca never drove down costs, period. then it never implemented the cost reducing features that would hurt businesses (more), which put the system deeper into a negative budget. then companies began pulling out of the pools due to net losses in operating in the govt model, leaving few if any choices. now it's in a death spiral, because it cannot cut costs, nor offer worthwhile coverage

>>get an infection
Can be treated over time.
>>fall anywhere and get hurt
Sue, if I can't sue I'm not anywhere near an area I can get hurt in.
>>have any mishaps ever and get hurt
Again sue, otherwise I'm not there.
>>get sick
Treated over time.
>the list goes on...
Really? Because it seems more like a vicious cycle of it being treated over time or I'm just not there.

Wrong. You'll be at the mercy of health insurance companies like the "good ol' days" before ACA, where a super low plan got you shit and getting dropped for dumb shit was the norm (and no, pre-existing conditions will not be covered under RepubliCare. Cap this post for future reference.)

ACA has its problems, but it's far better than the old system and scores better than Ryan's """""""health saving accounts"""""""

Before the ACA I didn't have any health problems and didn't have to pay anything.

After the ACA I didn't have any health problems, and now have to pay a fine for being healthy.

If the "can't be denied based off of previous conditions" bill which was not part of the same bill as obamacare stays, I can't be denied insurance on those reasons.

The second and most important part of this is allowing all insurance companies to run fully in all states without monopolies or restrictions. This creates competition and a lowering of prices of all companies significantly.

Now welcome to the not western or eastern coast states, for me Obamacare is over 400 dollars a month in my state and competitors are in the high 300's. Next thing you know boom things are in the 200's or even 100's for me and all states. Everything is better. Understand?

The ACA is a failure because it doesn't control medical spending.

Trump's reforms will also fail if they don't control spending.

Medical spending continues to surge by around 6% every single year in the US, and is reaching a breaking-point in terms of the percentage of GDP it absorbs.

The old-age Medicare health program is facing a budget crisis by the early 2020's.

We need to drag health spending down from its current 1/5th of GDP to about half of that.

There are different ways to achieve that goal, but all of them will involve taking money away from a lot of powerful interests.

We'll see if Trump has the balls to do it.

>Because it happened to me it has to happen to you too! Or you could just take my claim with no proof :^)

2ow you sure changed my mind.

You pay taxes, right? You understand how government works?

at my income level of $0 as a student, my Obamacare is free

feels good man

Just pointing out, state by state, why peoples opinion change as to why obamacare is good or sucks. Remember there are 49 other states, maybe this is why hillary lost?

When you remove a tumor, what will be the substitute?
Healthcare isn't the government's business, subsidizing healthcare means either subsidizing poor health choices and/or restricting coverage to the non-conformant. It means increasing the cost of healthcare, because consumption vs production is not an evaluation that people must, or even can, make for themselves anymore.

OP in one year ACA jacked my companies insurance rate up 28%.

It is ironic that it is called the ACA because it is not affordable.

This broke nigga can't afford 200 bucks a month for something I don't really need. My rent is only 250 a month.

Luckily I don't make enough to actually be fined for not having it.

somebody who realizes that the reason that health insurance is a profitable industry in the first place is because the odds are against them ever needing healthcare costing more than they would save not buying insurance?
People would be able to afford health savings accounts if not for the burden of the individual mandate (and prior subsidies driving up costs).

>mandate to buy insurance
>insurance companies required to spend 80% of revenue on healthcare, only 20% on everything else (including profits)
>healthcare providers realize this and raise prices
>health insurance providers raise premiums (earning more profits), don't care for negotiating for cheaper healthcare
>consumers are a captive market as they are required to buy insurance, so all insurance companies raise their premiums
>feedback loop continues making premiums ridiculously unaffordable

>Explain to me why the affordable care act is a disaster.
Because it forces healthy and responsible people to pay for your stupid life decisions/shit genes.
>When Trump removes it, what will be the substitute?
Your own money.

This rule in particular kills any incentive health insurance providers have for negotiating cheaper prices from healthcare providers.

>be a responsible adult
>have a FANTASTIC health care plan
>low cost, a great doctor, great coverage, the whole 10 yards
>enter Obama
>"Don't worry, user, you can keep your old "grandfathered" plan, and keep your doctor."
>a year later
>"Actually, you can't keep your doctor."
>a year later
>"Actually, you can't keep your grandfathered plan."
>lost my doctor
>lost half my coverage
>my health insurance now costs 2x as much
>all so a bunch of irresponsible niggers and illegal aliens who give zero fucks about their health can be covered

Now I live in Japan. I dropped my American health insurance (Japan's is way better), and I'm probably going to drop my American citizenship later this year so I won't have to pay any taxes to the USA.

This

>ten hours a week

No. If it was minimum wage that is $300 a month. If you paid that much you could get a better obamacare package and not lose income.

pretty much this, though it's far more likely to allow current subscribers to persist, and hang around until it's thinned by the fading generations.

if you didn't pay taxes, what would happen? since you live in Japan

>Explain to me why the affordable care act is a disaster.

Because it is singlehandedly going to bring down the entire private health insurance market within next 3 months. It's in a death spiral. People need to understand this. The program must change, and if democrats were in control, they would also be reforming it (likely single payer).

>when Trump removes it, what will be the substitute?

In all likelihood, we go back to the way things were before obamacare. Except certain provisions like preexisting conditions being covered, medicaid expansion, etc. will be kept; with some additions like buying insurance plans available in other states.

Biggest difference as trump outlined tonight is that you bring costs down by letting people decide what to buy (forcing companies to respond to consumers), rather than trying to lower costs by forcing everyone to buy healthcare (which takes power and leverage away from consumers). So we'll probably also get a tax credit to buy insurance plans. And in all likelihood it won't be enough to cover more than 6 months of premiums.

All the focus is on insurance companies and they aren't really the problem. The cost comes from the pharma companies, hospitals and every other fucking company in the health industry who charges a fortune for basic shit and then tells you to blame insurance companies for high premiums.

>In all likelihood, we go back to the way things were before obamacare. Except certain provisions like preexisting conditions being covered

That wouldn't work. You can't put a ban on insurers dropping policies for pre-existing conditions without also having a universal mandate of some sort.

But if Trump allows pre-ex and all the UNPOPULAR pre-ACA shit to return, he'll take a big political hit.

So, it's kind of a mess right now, which is why Trump/the GOP congress are stalling for time.

>A rich billionaire that could live his life fucking 20 year old girls until he dies of old age is going to reform health care for the average person and make it more affordable

This is what makes America the best fucking country on this goddam planet.

USA
USA
USA

$15 an hour baking bread. 38 hours a week, 570 before taxes. you add a few overtime weeks and I made around 32k a year.

Obamacare comes along and I get bumped down to 28 hours, because of the employer mandate. now I make 21k

get a shitty part time job, 20 hours a week at $10 a an just so I can make what I made before.

I did that for a year, so instead of working 38 hours a week I had to work 48 for exactly the same amount of money. because you know things like rent, car insurance and the like don't really give a shit about that.

I had insurance before Obamacare through my employer because they were a small company and couldn't afford it because of Obamacare.

so please liberal tell me how Obamacare wasn't a bad deal for me. call me a liar or spin whatever kind of web you'd like so you can tell yourself it isn't that bad. don't listen because honestly I don't care.

maybe you liberal should start listening to people, instead of thinking you know it all because you read the fucking Huffington Post.

but don't worry it worked well enough. of course I had quit the shitty job and go back home. I took a CDL course and now make a little more.

guess what I used to be a democrat too. I complained to my democratic rep and was told the same line of bullshit. I'll tell you this I'll never vote for that party again. I was fine before the King Nigger fucked everything up.

and maybe you don't know what it's like living on 31k a year but you sure as shit can't afford $300-350a month for the Silver package. you liberals just don't get nor will you listen.

Yeah, all those people go into high risk pools, which the gov would probably subsidize. Problem is obamacare tried to throw them all in with everyone else, so that premiums became unaffordable across the board. It's similar to letting too many immigrant welfare sponges into a community. You can't do that. You need a wall.

Anyway the focus needs to be on the providers, not the insurance companies. Car insurance would be equally unaffordable if oil changes cost $1000. And no one would point the finger at geico. People would point the finger at the auto shop, or perhaps the oil supplier. Problem lies with them. And until lawmakers go after that, neither party will make progress. The costs are just too damn high. And for those who argue single payer, even medicare and medicaid are struggling to remain solvent and those are single payer healthcare programs for seniors and the poor. States are being bankrupted by 25% or more of each state tax dollar going to medicaid.

The entire fucking healthcare industry is ruining this country.

1-larp
2-quit larping
3-???
4-profit

THIS FUCKING POST RIGHT HERE.

This is why obamacare sucks. This is why democrats have had their party destroyed. This bullshit people have been dealing with for nearly a decade on top of a shitty economy which never really recovered is why trump won.

Obama fundamentally fucked over the little guy.

>and maybe you don't know what it's like living on 31k a year but you sure as shit can't afford $300-350a month for the Silver package. you liberals just don't get nor will you listen.

I know this aging mulatto at work that used to pay $140 a month on his health insurance for his bum shoulder muscles, that provided pain killers, muscle relaxants and a type of steroid shot to his shoulder every few months at not extra cost to him.

Fast forward 9 months and he told me his insurance went up from $140 to $280. He had to drop it cause it was too expensive. My insurance in 2014 was about $60 for the middle road plan of my job at the time, now I'm paying $120 for a worse program that doesn't include glasses and emergency room visits that aren't an extreme circumstance. Pretty much need to have a life changing injury for them to pony up the money for an emergency room visit.

Fuck king nigger and fuck his retarded policies.

>greatest cuntry in the world
>can't into health care

>accutane

Get off that shit right now. Im not joking man the shit is terrible. The acne will heal eventually. Accutane can leave you with hypertrophic scars, and causd many more health problems.

I was on it for a few months. While it did clear up most of the acne on my face, it left me with a big scar on my, shoulder and chest. Its alot better now, had surgery and laser, but fuck man the shit really isnt worth it.

it's the beauty of the employer mandate of Obamacare. you see if you work under 29 hours a week your employer isn't required to offer you insurance. so business owners in an effort to avoid paying for insurance just reduced employee hours to 28. because with Obama 30 hours a week was considered "Full-time equivalents"

pre Obama it was 40 and no employer mandate. that's why a lot of NEETs are so pissed.

imagine losing a 1/3rd of your income and being forced to buy a shitty product. you'd me mad too

The fundamental problem is why people were uninsured in the first place. If you're already sick, you're a charity case to any insurer. There's no way to pay for these people without taking from others. The free market doesn't subsidize inefficient outcomes.

Insurance became popularized as naval expeditions became increasingly costly. It was too risky to lose everything in a storm, so sailors started buying insurance for their expeditions. If your ship wrecked and you lost your goods, why would anyone give you insurance? That's basically asking for free money.

Health is no different. The idea behind universal coverage is milking these cows for decades before they become sick, thus you have a sizable endowment with which to provide charity to the most expensive patients. In order to have effective socialized healthcare, you have to deny currently living citizens with pre existing conditions. Otherwise they will be a resource drain. You will never break even on these people, which is why everyone else lost their coverage, reduced quality, or paid significantly more for the same.

as much as I hate to say it maybe it was a good thing. I probably would have tolerated the SJWs and still blindly voted democrat (I grew up in a union house) but once they come after your livelihood it's totally different. I'm glad Trump came along and those fucking liberals showed their true colors.

you can't tell these fuckers that doubling your insurance bill doesn't hurt you. I'd like to know what world they live in. it's like an extra $1000 a year is nothing to them.

if they make enough to be able to piss 1000 bucks like it's nothing that's great but don't fuck the little guy who really more than anything just wants to be left the fuck alone

>Went to file my taxes.
>Don't have healthcare cause I refuse to pay $450 per paycheck.
>Tax return complete, owe $1700.
>Go back and check that I had coverage the entire year.
>Getting $5400 back.

THANKS OBAMACARE.