Could Germany Win WW2?

Was it winnable?

It was literally Germany vs. the entire world, so I'm guessing no. But I wouldn't think they'd last or accomplish as much as they did either.

With a couple different decisions could they literally have saved the white race?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=a3zFG14CqB8
youtube.com/watch?v=NVqxoA52kjI
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

The most amazing thing is Britain and American were actually distinct underdogs who heavily over came impossible odds to win.Germany was undeniably in the driver seat to inevitable victory

>Better preparation for a war with the USSR
>Waited a few more years until Italy's military was prepared
>Less aggressive to the US, stopping Japan from enacting Pearl Harbour
>Holding off on Attacking the USSR entirely

Well, I mean I don't think the U.S. and Britain were the problem, right? Wasn't it mostly Russia who defeated them (with U.S. weapons)?

I mean the Russians are who made it to Moscow and a lot of troops were pulled off the western front to keep up the eastern front.

>It was literally Germany vs. the entire world
Your thinking of WW1

Oh, I mean Berlin.

I mean Italy had no military and was pretty much worthless and Japan was fucking off raping and torturing Chinese civilians. In fact all they did was get Germany an extra enemy.

Maybe if fucking Japan held up their end of the bargain and went after Russia things could have been different.

It wasn't only Germany vs the world. It was pretty winnable and the obvious and best answer is "They shouldn't had attacked Russia while they were still fighting against the Allies". Although if they had attacked earlier when they were in complete disarray then they could've taken Russia down earlier

Their biggest mistakes were probably declaring war on the US, attacking Russia before the Western front was secure, and building Tigers when they didn't have the resources to sustain them.

Germany was literally number one at the time, unironically strong enough to take on the entire world.

1st mistake was making an alliance with the japs and italians. The japs where also hilariously strong and could have taken the entirety of asia solo, even the soviet union. But only if the soviets where the only big boys around. However Japan brought the USA into the equation, which at the time was the number 2 spot in the world stage power wise. Close enough to germany that if those two fought alone the USA could have actually won hard.

2. Breaking the nazi-soviet pact. If hitler would have not broken this agreement he wouldnt have overextended himself miserably. The fuel problem would have led to the end of ww2 much quicker with most likely an armistice.

3. When he broke the NAP with the soviets, he decided to ignore his generals. Which was a direct cause to Moscow not falling. Had he taken moscow, which was the hub for all of the soviets infrastructure, the USSR would have been so horrendously crippled that it would have had to sue for peace.

4. Not propping up hypernationalists in all lands he invaded and conquered. A polish fascist state would have been a much keener ally than a conquered and occupied poland. He could have used propoganda to convince the poles that "the evil english and french abandoned you, the time to pay them back is now!" and playing them up as inheritors of their PLC heritage then they could have been a powerful ally. Especially against the soviets. The nazis went too far down the "germans are master race" hole to realize that exporting their ideology would have made for rediculously strong puppets.

5. Wasting resources on the holocaust at all. Complete waste of manpower and resources. The most he should have done was ghetto them and then ship them off once the war was done. Hell if I was hitler I would have CREATED Israel and then let the sand peoples rip them apart.

Lots of really bad political decisions.

I don't know.
I suspect only if America didn't get involved.
Russia could not have held out without lend lease.

Probably not. Germany had the problem of being saddled with a VERY inefficient economy. It was never making enough guns, shells, bombs, planes, tanks, etc etc etc.

Even at the height of the Eastern front, when Russia had been pushed back to nearly Moscow, they were still outproducing Germany.

No, geography alone was their downfall.

Being sandwiched between Western Europe on one side and the USSR on the other meant that they were never going to win WWII.

If Hitler had managed to establish some sort of rock solid alliance with Stalin he would've had a chance.

People saying the mistake was attacking the Soviet Union really don't understand National Socialism, or Hitler.

Everything done prior to attacking Russia, was merely a set up for attacking Russia. Hitler made it clear they needed to be attacked in the 1920's. The idea that Hitler and Stalin could just live in peace is pure fantasy.

If the US didn't help the bongs and we decided to stay out of WW2 then the nazis would have won.

I don't understand why he changed his mind about giving eastern ukraine to the jews. Was it Goebbels' doing?

Going after the commies was a mistake. USSR could and did just hurdle bodies until germany froze to death. Overconfidence is the fault of empires.

So pretty much Japan can be blamed for Germany losing WW2?

I mean, the U.S was like half German at the time so you would think they would stay out of it, but who knows how deep the international jewery was at the time.

If they waited longer they wouldn't have gotten nearly as much done in the east. Soviets were already building up, much of the early success of Barborossa was due to them still being unprepared. Going later would have made it worse if anything.

If they had overrun British forces at Dunkirk and kept the US out of the war, they might have had a chance. I don't know if they could have held vast Russian territory though.

The japs didn't tell hitler they were going to attack pearl harbor. It forced him to declare war on the US.

Maybe if Hess had succeeded in convincing the Brits to make peace before Barbarossa began.

Otherwise, no

Japan decided that if it wanted to become an international power just like the Europeans, it would have to crush the US. I honestly doubt they thought they had any other way. Personally I think them declaring on the US was extremely stupid, and should have settled with colonizing east Asia. In time they probably could have convinced the western powers to drop their holdings in east asia.

They should have focused more on seizing siberia from the USSR. No way russia could have sustained a massive direct assault from japan all the way on the east.

That all was dependent on Hitler shutting up and listening to his air marshals who were telling him that bombing cities had little to no effect on the war effort and just cost unnecessary amounts of pilots, planes, and armaments. From what I've heard, if Germany had just continued to bomb out Britain's ports and airstrips they could have easily crippled them and forced a peace.

Germany/Area
Image result for area germany
137,983 mi2

Soviet Union/Area
Image result for area soviet union
8.65 million mi2

It doesn't matter, the thing they got their ass handed over and now tneir ass is getting fuck by moohamed and that is a plus for me, don give a fuck bout germany if you ask me, fuck them big time.

Absolutely. The world was their feast for the taking, and like retards they tried to eat the whole thing in one bite, choked, and died.

Just attack Russia AFTER taking Western Europe, Hitler you dumb fuck.

Fuck you retard the third reich was the height of white civilization and accomplished more in a decade than most countries have in their entire existence.

remove germanys area from su and su has 8.5m area, completely unfazed.

stfu nigger.

You all seem to think that the allience with the soviets was all dandy but stalin was waiting for the perfect time to strike. The world really hated communism and all world powers thought it as evil. Nobody was truly on each others side. We agreed to help the bongs but in return they had to dissolve their colonies and that lead to their defeat.

>It was literally Germany vs. the entire world
And they did pretty well until the country that declared war on them in ww1 near the end for no fucking reason then because
>durr ebil germs shot anglo ships that were holding war munitions and had 11 americans on it
>dem anglos told me those ebil germans were gonna help mexico
>despite the fact that mexico was in no shape what so ever to be in a war
Not only that but our lend lease bullshit with helping the soviets pretty much allowed them to become unstoppable near the end of the war

Knock Britain out of the war (butchering them at Dunkirk then bombing them until Churchill was hung by his own people). The U.S. would never join the war, more pilots would have been available in the eastern front, and the African front would cease to exist. Bonus points for keeping Mussolini on a tight leash.

This
Great redpill: Germans develop the atomic bomb, not USA

If Spain supported them and the Americans weren't dragged into it they would have certainly won

Why are you ignoring the fact that Russia was very strong by that point and it's doubtful Hitler could have even beat them. Also you're pretending that Stalin would just do nothing for years as this happens which is retarded.

They should have let the USSR invade Poland first so that the UK and France would have also had to declare war on them too instead of Germany alone.

True the germans did the nazis didn't. The nazis developed the rocket and the scientists were captured after the war and placed in a location called area 51 for the rest of their lives to make things for the US. The nazis got us to the moon not the americans.

> just don't attack russia hurr

Fucking idiots. It has long come out that Stalin had no intention to honor the non attack pact either and was preparing an attack on Germany himself.

Obviously the attack on Russia didn't go down too well, we weren't prepared for their shitty infrastructure and climate, but war was inevitable.

very much winnable. If america had not joined the war after the pearl harbor inside job german technology was going to overwhelm europe.

They where realistically on track to get the bomb too. Once they had that they would not have been anywhere near as frugal as we were with it.

they wouldn't have fought the russians, though

just like they didn't go in to help them when Germany invaded, they waited as long as possible before sending americans in

Knock out UK before attacking Russia. Joint German - Japanese invasion of USSR.

There are those who think the Nazis did win WW2. Sort of like "Iron Sky" but for real in Antarctica.

No moron.

Secure an ally with Poland before the pro German leader in Poland dies.

Basically develop a German T-34 in mid-late 1930s

Develop easy mass produced fighters and heavy bombers

Do not waste resources on surface ships, better / more U-boats early on

Keep Italy neutral while they built their army up (more useful to keep out of the war)

Keep Hungary neutral while they built their army up (not a bad fighter, just horribly behind in weapons and pls no bully sacred Hungary)

Rouse Islamic nationalism in English territory and keep up with it

Route the English at Dunkirk, sure for peace on the basis they lost the ground war, if not use above mentioned heavy bombers to pound into submission

Invade Russia earlier without Italy fucking up in Greece.

More pressure on Finland to fight into Russia

Use Romania and Poland's large armies as suppression forces in conquered territory

Establish nationalistic movements in Ukraine and Russia

Beg Japan to invade Russia with whatever promise it takes, thus putting the pressure of a two front war on Stalin

Route Russia, setup puppet states

rest and build up until a former ally decides they want some land, conquer them, work on taking over whatever small nations remain in Asia and Africa

Eventually take on Canada and the US

???

I learned a lot.

wtf i hate japan now

If they waited longer the US wouldn't have been as isolationist, the Soviets would've recovered from their purge, and the French would've supported a war.

They attacked at the perfect time but still had no chance.

The Allies had the logistics of an entire planet, there was virtually no chance of an Axis victory. The best they could've done was stop after they annexed the Czechs and Yugos.

>Germany was the strongest

Except for their manpower numbers, industry, natural resources, and weapons, right?

>this thread
Real life isn't a paradox game you autists

Tbqh, Germany could have done this. Except the fight U.S part, I'm pretty sure that if the U.S had to prepare for wartime, and was given time we straight up would have fought Germany to a stand still before winning hard due to our *then superior numbers of air fighters.

If Hitler wasn't fucking retarded and didnt invade the USSR then yes. He was a good man with smart ideas, but he sucked ass as a Military commander.

Taking over Europe? I think no. Too many alliances and interests for America not to react.

He should have stopped at Germany, formed strong economic bonds with the rest of the western states and then focused on smaller eastern states for extra land.

Once he went at Russia directly while he was already fighting the west, there was no other conclusion.

Since Germany united Austria, Sudentland, and Germany into one superstate, making it the most economically powerful bloc in Europe....

Since HALF of all inventions and discoveries in science being made in the world were being made in the new Germany just before war broke out....

Since Germany had the best propaganda in the world. Ex: Had the only TVs and TV stations on the planet... Had movies and stars that even played in the United States....

They could have simply wiped out their enemies through culture and economic influence and propaganda. The other nations would have seen how based they were and wanted to be them.

They didn't have to lose a single grenadier.

Most Japanese commanders knew they couldn't actually win the Pacific War outright, merely hope that they could inflict enough causalities to make the U.S. sue for peace.

The U.S. even told them what would happen, long before Pearl Harbor. Japan was getting defanged, either peacefully, or by force. Choice was theirs.

The only countries left standing in Western Europe was neutral Spain, and the UK. Spain obviously didn't matter, and never even entered the war.

The U.K. couldn't be invaded by Germany, and probably would have never been assailable. Hitler had Western Europe under his heel to the best extent possible.

Germany had the advantage of getting Austria, Czechoslovakia and even Poland with the help of the Russians in the beginning.

They also sneak attacked everyone.

>Was it winnable?
no because Germany is a land power. you can't win a global war with just land forces.
- no strategic bomber or doctrine
- no history of amphibous invasion or assault
- no navy
- reluctance to use paratroops after crete
- no ability to resupply by air or sea

in short, didn't have the logistic capability/know how to win a war and that is what wins wars. simply wasn't enough to pin hopes on 'the will' to win.

Yes, defenetively, if Germany decided to set up colaborationist goverments in Ukraine and Russia, the partisan threat would have disapeared, and Germany would have obtained an enless number of auxiliary troops to use as cannon fodder.

There is a way for Japan to win the war, in May 1945, a war breaks out between The Allies and the USSR, the U.S needing to divert resources, nukes the USSR insted of Japan, and is simply unable to conduct any further operations on the Pacific Theater, Japan agrees to peace on the terms of Status quo ante bellum (except for Indochina and Indonesia, both of which can no longer be pacified by the European Powers, and are "Temporarly" left to Japan to prevent a communist uprising) and a Japanese/Allied Intervention is launched towards Siberia. By 1949, the USSR is forced to abandon eastern Europe and the Far East, the Western Allies and China are too exhausted to do anything about Japan keeping Indonesia and Indochina, therefore its a victory for the Axis.

Poland wasn't going to ally with the Germans.

Technology isn't a tech tree, you don't just up and develop a tank like that. Not to mention the T-34 wasn't really that great. Not to mention it wouldn't matter how many tanks of what type they had when they had no fuel to run them.

U-boats got BTFO by mid war, and without surface ships the RN would have a field day raiding German supply lines and bombarding the shoreline.

You can't just route the English at Dunkirk, that's not how it works. The Germans put as much pressure as they could, but the French and British didn't crack.

An earlier invasion of Russia wouldn't have really mattered. You would maybe see greater Soviet losses, but the fact that over half of German logistics were horse drawn means as soon as winter hits they're still fucked, and a few weeks wouldn't win the war.

nationalists in Ukraine DID fight for the Germans, which is why Russians still call Ukies Nazis.

Japan cannot invade Russia, they were balls deep in China and the Soviets kept 3 million soldiers on the border. Japan would've been BTFO and lost China.

Also
>produce heavy bombers

You have to DEVELOP the bomber first. The Germans had no real heavy bomber. Also, they tried to pound the Brits into submission, what is the Battle of Britain?

fair enough

>no navy
WAT

The Kriegsmarine might have been the third most relevant navy in the war, perhaps the fourth most relevant surface force.

Sorry, fourth in relevance (USN, IJN, RN), maybe fifth (USN, IJN, RN, Italy) in Surface force.

No useless offensive against britain, that shit was expensive as hell.
The planes we lost in the west could have been put to much better use in russia.

FUCK YOU BRITAIN

>That link
Why is phone posting so gay?

the difference in size between the USN, the RN, and the Kriegsmarine was way to great for it to be relevant, add to that, that the Kriegsmarine was not a Power Projection based navy like the IJN or the USN, its roll was trade interdiction and costal defense

any thoughts on the US-USSR war?

Gee, they sure failed at both of those, considering that better than 85% of all shipping made it to it's destination and seeing how the Allies managed to land in France twice without the Kriegsmarine stopping them.

>It was literally Germany vs. the entire world, so I'm guessing no

It was Germany vs Ryssia, America, Britain and (initially) France
Countries that declared war at the end for the lulz like Brazil don't count

Also a war against the world is winnable, pic related

If they didn't invade the Soviet Union, they would have had a massive force on the western front and in North Africa, since a majority of the German military was deployed to the east. Then it would just be a matter of keeping Hitler far away from military command long enough to focus on more practical units, rather than the outrageously expensive Tiger, Tiger II and Maus programs. I mean if it weren't for operation Barbarossa the Germans would definitely have beaten the British, and would have had a chance to defeat the United States, but the extremely industrialized american economy would have made a war with the United States on american soil very costly, so the only real option would be to invade britain then make any campaign in Europe too costly to the americans to justify continued intervention

>>Better preparation for a war with the USSR
More like any at all. They totally didn't expect the Brits to declare over their shenanigans in Poland, their plan was to start a war with Russia in 1945

I believe that starting Barbarossa earlier (a week into the campaign it was already July) could have made a major difference.

>Operation Typhoon, the drive to Moscow, began on 30 September 1941

If this happened in August, the Germans were in business. The offensive stalled once the rains started in mid-October. By the time they got to the outskirts of Moscow, it was December and the winter was in full swing. The delay until the end of June was extremely costly.

The Germans also could have expelled the British from North Africa with more attention, resources and effort. There's no way they could have won the war after the failure of Barbarossa, but it would have been interesting to know what would have happened had the Germans been able to open a southern front against the Soviets via the Middle East and the Caucasus.

the failure at trade interdiction was simply the outcome of the invention of new technologies the Wermacht hadn't expected to be developed before the war, and simply didnt have the resources to fix by the end of it (add to that the fact the US could spam liberty ships almost endlessly) the costal defense problem was a combination of OKW complacency, inter service rivalary between the Kriegsmarine, the Army, the Luftwaffe, and the Abwher, and a lack of resources to repair damaged ships.

no
youtube.com/watch?v=a3zFG14CqB8

France was ultimately (Like usual) defeated. Sorry frog.

Moscow was a ghost town. It had been evacuated and the industry moved west of the Urals.

Once the well equipped and trained Far East divisions arrived on the Eastern Front it was over for the Germans. People forget, but at the beginning of the war the Russians were keeping about 5 million soldiers on the Japanese border, when they cut that down to 3 million and brought the other 2 to fight Germany, the offensive completely stalled.

Not to mention that if the Soviets torched their Caucasus oil fields upon defeat (like they planned to) the Germans would've ran out of fuel anyway.

Not to mention that German logistics were in shambles due to their lack of motorization. They didn't seize enough horses or grain in the march East to keep up that offensive.

Moved East of the Urals*

But not in the war on the pic, in another one
Merging both is like merging both WWs

>Was it winnable?

had they not allied with japan, the USA would never had a reason to join the war on the continent. they probably would still be masters over France and the USSR probably never would have lasted 70 years.

>Was it winnable?

no..we men here in the u.s. will work ourselves to death for our families or our children even without an enemy

/thread

To be fair, pretty much every important American besides the founding fathers was German.

In the early 30s the Polish leader was on very friendly terms with Germany, do your history

Germans purposely did not use long barreled 75mm guns because it looked "wrong" to them. not saying the T34 was great, but an easy to make medium tank would have been a plus. They would have had access to oil since they would not be losing as badly.

Poland cracked the enigma, ally with them early on, enigma doesn't get cracked. RN doesn't matter when UK is out of the war now does it?

>>You can't just route the English at Dunkirk
That's where you're wrong kiddo
Are you trolling or just never read history? Hitler let the dunkirk evacuation happen because he felt it was a sign of good will to the english for peace.

The Germans were on track for Moscow within a few weeks, invading earlier could have changed the out come of it all.

Hitler did not take advantage of nationalists like he should have was the point

Japan was under several different thoughts on the matter, war with USSR by the IJA, and USA by the IJN, clearly being out numbered and out gunned was not something they were scared about.

Germany had several heavy bomber designs, the HE-177 was operational but a disaster. produce it early on, get the teething issues out.

Read a lot more before you go arguing on a Hawaiian cattle breeding forum.

The US was going to enter the war regardless.

FDR was prepared to do whatever it took to enter the war.

The US would have gone to war regardless. FDR would have just come up with some bullshit excuse like Wilson did in WWI.

This. Where do people get the delusion that Stalin was anit-expansionist? He took the Eastern half of Poland FFS.

>The Germans were on track for Moscow within a few weeks, invading earlier could have changed the out come of it all.

No, German losses were extremly high in the opening weeks of Barbarossa, comabt effectiveness was down to 65% for Infantry Divisions and 30% for panzer divisions, i anything, the weather just gives the soviets more time to push the Germans back

USA would of entered the war regardless of pearl harbor. The Jews had control over all the media of the entire world until Germany forcibly removed them.

Usa would of entered the war regardless

They still control the education system and media but they know they're becoming irrelevant in the media because Hillary would of won easily if there was no internet and it absolutely rips their rectums apart that they no longer control the narrative outside of boomer fucks glued to their tvs

What do you define as winning, or a victory rather?

Hitler's invasion was preemptive. The Soviets were preparing to invade Western Europe.
Hitler admitted in a secretly taped conversation that had he known the truth strength of the Red Army, he wouldn't have invaded.

youtube.com/watch?v=NVqxoA52kjI

>Merging both is like merging both WWs
They can pretty much be seen as one war. The "peace" agreement that ended the First World War was the direct cause of the Second World War.

With a two front war on the soviets hands, the Siberian divisions would not be around to play part in the battle of Moscow.

Even without this factoring in, the Russians did not pull those divisions out until they were sure Japan was not going to attack

Invading earlier may have given them the boost they need to take it.

But even with Moscow falling, the soviet union would not have caved that easily.

I believe Hitler regretted not attacking sooner. They had to delay a few weeks due to weather if I'm not mistaken

if germany had done operation sea lion. The war would have been won.

thats that.

but hitler didnt want to risk the resources

If sea lion had succeeded, then hitler would have had only one front. Russian.

America would be neutered, because D day would never have happened

they would have try and take italy/attack germany from the south.
Would not have been very easy.

Hitlers BIGGEST mistake was not going through with operation sea lion

Italy, Mussolini wanted to show the world stage he was just as bad a dude with a tude as Hitler, so he went after Greece. Didn't work out for him and Hitler had to save his (((greatest ally)))

>Invading earlier may have given them the boost they need to take it.
This is impossible, Japan had decided the course of the war years before it started, it was part of a cold civil war within the Japanese High Command, a war that ended when the soviets destroyed the Japanese forces at Khalking Gol in 1939.

>But even with Moscow falling, the soviet union would not have caved that easily

i disagree partially, moscow was the main rail hub for the western USSR, if it fell, Leningrad, Stalingrad, Murmansk, Baku, and all other cities west of the Urals were pretty much gone, tough resistance east of them could not have been put down by the wermacht

They should have worked to become allies with more Hermanic countries, they should not have left the English forces retreat at Barbarossa. They should have supplied winter coats to their forces in Russia.

If they had allied with stronger nations they would have won.

I promise I'm smarter than you, so I would shut up.

The Germans didn't use a long 75 because they didn't have a chassis to adequately use the long 75 and had already produced millions of rounds for their other cannons.

Look at the M3 Lee for an example of this, the US mounted the new cannon on an old chassis and while it performed well enough, it still had issues and was a drag in logistics, the Germans didn't even have the opportunity because their logistics wouldn't have been able to take the strain of an entire new cannon.

The enigma code was cracked by British operatives, the Poles with their (unfounded) claims that they cracked the code in 32 were just that, unfounded. The code was cracked when an intact Enigma machine was seized from a captured U-boat.

They also would NOT have had access to more oil because the Soviets were prepared to torch their wells if they were lost, not to mention that shitty German logistics would not have been able to ship unrefined oil from the Cacusus back to Germany, refine it, and then ship it back to the front in time to make a difference. It would've taken months if not over a year for seized oil fields to impact the war in any way.

I don't care how gung-ho the Japs were about war, if they attacked the Russians, 3-5 million well trained and equipped Soviets would've swept the Japs into the sea. It was taking all of their effort to keep down peasants in China, and if they opened up a front with America they would still have to garrison those islands.

Japan invading Russia would've only does up the defeat of Japan.

>Hitler let the evacuation happen

Things been debunked many, many times.

The attacks on Dunkirk were not as hard because the Germans were more focused on Calais, Lille, and Amiens (which all fell).

It was the brave French at Lille that fought off several German divisions that helped buy time for the evacuation. Not to mention the British that held the line east of Dunkirk.

>English forces retreat at Barbarossa.
?

Hitler should have let his generals wage war. And he should have done a better job of reaching out to the allies and/or psyops to the people.
>Bomber plane named Alles Kaput designed to fly across the Atlantic, bomb New York, and fly back
Should have bombed Wall Street or London. At least drop a bomb on Big Ben

Hitler said his army was a "fair weather" army

Quick rundown on sea lion?
He should have gotten some cold weather gear from Sweden/Finland/Norway tbqh