Demographics: in which wicked version of reality do we live in?

This is not /r9k/, so I will keep this strictly within the boundaries of:
>demographics
>how ideologies do try to affect our feelings and the way we behave

I am writing this as Italy hits a new birthrate low...
>2015 data: 486,000 new births
>2016 data: 474,000 new births (the lowest *ever*)

Now, although we all know the redpill:
>population cannot grow indefinitely
I still feel entitled to worry about the following aspects:
>if the country wants to maintain its welfare system, lack of newborns means there is room for immigrants
>consequently, this means that if you want things to stay as they are (e.g. if you want to keep pensions stable), you have to trade in your culture
This is not a slippery slope but, in fact, this is what many countries are facing. They groomed their boomers to become privileged cunts, and now said boomers are ready to give their culture away because it is now more important for them to retain their current wealth than to preserve their cultural legacy for future generations. This is why they welcome migrants.

Yet, please consider the following conundrum:
>immigrants are necessary for the welfare system to survive
>yet there never seem to be enough jobs for natives
>moreover since it is true population cannot grow indefinitely, this does not only apply to newborns, but also to immigrants as well
>in other words, even if you replace native kids with migrants, this doesn't change the fact growth is not sustainable in the long run

But suppose I don't give a heck about culture. Suppose I am perfectly fine with migrants as long as they are prolific, industrious, and abide by the minimum standard of values our society is built upon:
>mutual respect
>hard work
>freedom
>somewhat free market
>good food
>low violence rate (believe it or not, Italy is scoring pretty well for a country its size)
>etc.

Other urls found in this thread:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Yuzyk
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Sicily
twitter.com/AnonBabble

So let's assume I don't mind if my dialect will disappear in a couple of generations, as long as the core values are carried over by a new wave of people.

Even when assuming this, I reckon it is still abysmal to live in a country where women do not react positively to the idea that having children is an okay-thing to do and having a family is not that bad after all.
Consider the following:
>all family-oriented women I meet on an ordinary basis have swallowed the religious blue-pill
>all the skeptic and redpilled ones are somewhat allergic to the idea of having a stable family. They keep flying from one flower to another, until they are past childbearing age
Some of them go to the point of making a banner out of it:
>I don't want children

When you commit the mistake of disclosing the fact you wouldn't mind having kids, you are treated as if you were a herald of chauvinism and traditionalism.
But, hey, although my current values might be slightly traditional... I spent most of my life tolerating diversity for the sake of it and insisting people should do what they feel like. I used to be more of a socialist... now I'm a social democrat. Why the hell does declaring I want to have children put me in the ranks of those who want to subjugate women? Isn't this a slippery slope?

What I noticed is that whenever you bring up the kids topic, women react negatively... as if you had just put salt on the wound. But how comes? I mean, this isn't the same as saying "women shouldn't have the right to vote".

Canada took in a shitload of rich Indians after WWII on the West Coast. It was our first experiment with third world multiculturalism. Surrey was one of the the richest cities in Canada when they arrived and these immigrants did fairly well, but now at the 3rd generation Surrey is a third world disgusting shitpile that costs the entire province ridiculous amounts of money every year.

They all go back. No exceptions.

I do not even want to make an evolutionary argument out of this. Biology is what it is. I do not think it is good or wrong for me to have the desire to inseminate a womb and grow my kids to be responsible adults. This is just the way I am.
What triggers me, is the idea that some people think I am wrong just because I am imbued with this desire.

Since I do not go around telling vegans what they should eat, I'd expect the same. That is, if I say having kids must be an amazing experience... I think I shouldn't be called out as a forefather of patriarchy.

And yet, it appears that, in the so-called Western society, wanting to have children is a crime. I'm not saying this is our only purpose in life (God only knows -- they say)... but basic needs and basic feelings should never be ranked as negative per se.

Do I make sense? Does someone here share my same feelings?

TL;DR:
I'm not a Super-traditionalist, but I would like to have kids. Yet I keep meeting women for whom having kids is seen not as a value but as an awful experience.

How did we get this far?
I'm not saying population growth and having kids are good things per se.
...But isn't there something inherently wrong with a society in which having kids is seen just as a burden and as a negative thing?

>core values
What a Jewish post. You know damn well these third world rats will segregate themselves and become a massive fifth column burden to your country. Similar to how we took in shitloads of Southern Italians and they've never really contributed anything but violent crime and corruption.

The third world and Arab/Nigger rape babies should be removed from both of our nations and given a place of their own.

>They all go back. No exceptions.
Do you mean migrants came to Canada just to leave after 2-3 generations?
This fact doesn't surprise me much.

Moreover, what's the problem with 2nd and 3rd Gen migrants? We all know they are the most problematic bunch... how do we fix this?

>so-called Western society

>What a Jewish post.
As expected, your North American Autism prevents you from grasping the logic of my posts.

Of course I do think what you've just written: 5th Column and all the rest. No doubt on that.

Yet, my problem is that even assuming I were okay with migrants, I still find flaws in the entire way childbearing is considered in my country -- especially by the women I meet.

We remove them from our lands. It took Indians and Africans a matter of years to remove millions of whites after WWII.

First step is banning dual citizenship and hyping up rhetoric. Millions will leave.

Second step is declaring all refugees non-eligible for citizenship, stripping any refugees since x date that got citizenship, and declaring all nations in the world 'safe' so all refugees can be forcibly returned.

Third step is the messy party and you can imagine what happens. We'll call them ethnic screening and pre-deportation camps.

So this is the proof Canacucks are cringy trolls that are not even able to be nearly as funny as Ausfailians.

I say so-called Western society because it is pretty clear to me that all you Anglo-cucks (including Amerifags, etc.) have the tendency to say:
>muh duh, Europe is Western, so it must be the same as America
Guess what, Shlomo: things can differ a lot in a 100 km range. Europe is so diverse it is very hard to talk about a unified Western culture -- let alone some memes everyone in the US seems to believe.

I should have to quote Italians over the last 100 years that have laid out the Jewish/materialistic influence on your country.

Shouldn't.

>115540148
This posts makes it seem like you're an Arab/Nigger rape baby in Southern Italy. You never were Italian if this was the case nor will you ever be Italian, and you need to be removed and returned to Africa.

You never set foot out of your country, didn't you?
>I've been to Minnesota once
This doesn't count.

>Europe is so diverse
What a fucking meme. I grew up on the Quebec/Ontario border. I know what difference a 'language' makes especially when virtually everyone of consequence in Italy speaks English.

Truth is southern Italy is filled with non-whites and Italy couldn't even make a decent contribution before with a full blown Fascist government. Sit around and wait until the rest of Europe deports you for being an Arab/Nigger Southern Italy rape baby, or join them in the deporting if you're not one of these people.

Whichever number your post ends in is the one you get to date.

>pic
Even though I know it's fake, it triggers me, because it's clearly a pic taken from the EU championship so of course diversity depends on the different languages and cultures and not on the colour of the skin.

>>Europe is so diverse
>What a fucking meme. I grew up on the Quebec/Ontario border. I know what difference a 'language' makes especially when virtually everyone of consequence in Italy speaks English.
Man, there is an abyss between Norway and Italy. Europe is diverse even if our skin colour is mostly the same.
Not a meme. Just accept reality.
There's something inherently wrong with that picture, but I'll roll my chances anyway.

I grew up near Vaughn and seen these so called 'whites' that look more Arabic and semitic than the darkest ethnic European Spaniards. We let in a million or two Southern Italians and they have brought nothing but third world mafia trouble and crime. You've never hear of a German/Swedish/North Italian mafia for a reason. They aren't third world genetic trash.

that's not the same person

This isn't white and you won't convince anyone this is white. If you look like this you will be deported because you do not belong in Europe. I don't understand what you don't understand.

god what is that

Any student of history knows the Muslims conquered much of Southern Italy and raped many women forever tainting their offspring as non-European. It happened in Southern Spain as well and this is where dark features in Southern Europe spawn from. The Muslim conquests and rapes. Greeks and Romans were both light skinned and fair haired.

>7
Could have been worse. I was aiming for an 8.
I'll just put a bag on her head, won't I?

>We let in a million or two Southern Italians and they have brought nothing but third world mafia trouble and crime. You've never hear of a German/Swedish/North Italian mafia for a reason. They aren't third world genetic trash.
>We let in
Man, not even us Northerners let them in. Why would you?

>This isn't white and you won't convince anyone this is white. If you look like this you will be deported because you do not belong in Europe. I don't understand what you don't understand.
A couple of things:
>I have never claimed Italians are 100% white
>This is exactly why I said "so-called Western culture"
>I said "so-called" because I know very well Italy cannot be taken as a paradigmatic example of the so-called West
>Pic related is not European
Well, you have to thank Italians and Greeks for everything you use: from forks to basic logic -- which you seem to lack.

So I don't care if you call the black-haired lady "European" or not. The only thing that matters is her contribution to humanity.
Since she's from the South, I argue it is close to zero.
Nevertheless, I still think there were other non-white Italians in the past (and Etrurians, and Romans) that contributed more to your daily lifestyle than anyone else on this board.

>The only thing that matters is her contribution to humanity.
You know these niggers have kids right? And these kids grow up to hate your kids?

You know that all these evil kike rats and race baiting blacks in the USA we hear so much about were born to 'good old jews' and 'good old blacks' right?

In the rare case these people produce and don't cause trouble they still need to go back. They produce non-white children 100% of the time and they have shit tier genetics that shouldn't be allowed inside Europe or we'll get all Europe turned into the Balkans and Southern Italy.

>Any student of history knows the Muslims conquered much of Southern Italy
Who are the Normans.

Most people in Southern Italy are Italian. I was just making the point that Italy already has millions of so called 'Italians' that need to be removed from Europe and I shared Canada's experiences with the richest and brightest of these vile beasts.

plz 3 i need a jewfu

YES

Right, nobody denies some Normans settled Southern Italy. Not to mention the Longobards which were German iirc and ruled over that land until the mass Muslim invasion and rape.

plz give me sth, at least

>In the rare case these people produce and don't cause trouble they still need to go back. They produce non-white children 100% of the time and they have shit tier genetics that shouldn't be allowed inside Europe or we'll get all Europe turned into the Balkans and Southern Italy.
I'm half-Slav, so I don't really mind having a Balkanized Italy.

>Most people in Southern Italy are Italian. I was just making the point that Italy already has millions of so called 'Italians' that need to be removed from Europe and I shared Canada's experiences with the richest and brightest of these vile beasts.
I have lived in an English-speaking country and agree with you Italian migrants are the worst of the lot.

You Anglo-cucks set up all those nice and fine regulations and migration laws. As a result, you rebuke those with good intentions because it is too hard to comply with the law.
Those who manage to stay have usually done some illegal things in order to seize residency or even citizenship.

Hence, the more authoritarian your State is with migrants, the easier it is the few who make it are the criminal ones. Redpill is that migration should not be regulated at all... otherwise you manage to import only the scum that scams your system.

I remember an Italian-australian girl who once told me:
>I have realized Italians from Italy are cool guys, nothing to do with those like my parents who moved here and still think in Italy you still ride carts and listen to folk music all day long.

My other point i'm trying to make is that Canada already tried this. We took in the top 0.0000001% of India put them in Surrey and now half a century later it's a third world city. This will not ever get better and will cost us more and more until we finally remove them.

>We took in the top 0.0000001% of India
The top X.
Give us proofs of this.
Who was making the measurements?
Were you handing out IQ tests at the time?

I doubt, because whoever managed that mess was an Anglo-cuck and, as such, he must have done something completely out of place in order to derail the whole initiative.

>I'm half-Slav
Bingo. This is why you have no attachment to Italy and have no problem with Italy being overrun with the third world. You should be deported back to your home country as you've completely abused the goodwill and trust of the Italian people.

Another little known fact even in Canada. The Slavs we brought in during the first half of the 20th century were the chief campaigners for letting in the Jews which then let in the third world. No slavs in Canada, no third world in Canada. Northern Europe and her colonies are probably fucked. It's already going to take tens of millions of deaths to sort this shit out.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Yuzyk

My uncle got his Spanish gf pregnant.

I was happy because she was really pretty and I really wanted a cousin.

Then she aborted it.

I don't know whether it's a men thing, I don't know whether it's a woman thing. I think it's both encouraging women to enter the workplace and them putting that over having children. If they do have children they have it at 35 and then they don't have time to have a second.

But look at this shit.
Green = Just replacing yourself.

Hardly anyone is breeding other than fucking niggers.
Even SANDNIGGERS have stopped breeding.

You just have to convince women to love babies more than prada handbags and get men to love women more than video games.

I know I sound like a grandfather saying that but it's true.

We have one of the toughest immigration systems in the world, even Trump praised it. Canada has always taken the top 0.001 - 0.000001% of a country, except for refugees which started coming in since the 1990's.

You/we need to get Jewish rats out of the media and residential housing speculation businesses. Then we can bring them before trials for their crimes against humanity.

I could point out how 9/10 of the 1919 German communist revolution leaders were Jewish, how affirmative action was a Jewish creation in both Canada and in the USA, how they were the driving force behind opening our borders, how the lawsuits that allowed near unrestricted abortion in our countries were both lead by kikes or hell I could lay out the thousands of hooked noses behind the drug/porn/tranny degeneracy they target our children with. But I won't. Rather i'll ask that whenever someone in this thread witnesses societal/political rot ask yourself, and don't be afraid to do some digging if necessary, if a certain sunken eyed inbred tribe is behind it.

Sup Forums calls this 'taking the redpill' and it ruins everyone as it's impossible to stop seeing the (((coincidences)))

>This is why you have no attachment to Italy and have no problem with Italy being overrun with the third world.
Bingo. Your autism is showing off because it is now pretty clear you are unable to understand a hypothetical argument when you meet one.
I have already explained myself here: ; so don't expect more replies until you've taken your pills.
Sayonara.

Your a literal mixed race Slav in Italy talking about "The only thing that matters is her contribution to humanity."

You're a complete scumbag that has abused the trust of the Italian people. Instead of lynching your Slavic wife/dad they treated them as brothers and let them in with open arms. This 'who gives a fuck about third world immigration' bullshit is how you repay them. What a joke. Sup Forums was right again.

If an Italian general and I were in this room I know what i'd tell him to do with you.

I think you got my point, mate.
>Canada has always taken the top 0.001 - 0.000001% of a country, except for refugees which started coming in since the 1990's.
Maximum kek.
>muh tough migration system
Man, you're getting the top 0.0000001% of the losers that apply to go to Canacuckia. So yeah, it's the top 1 of a pile of crap.
The best ones in India are still in India or elsewhere and are covering well-paid high-ranking jobs. No need for them to go to Canada.

Get off you're ego-trip ride.

It's even happening in Israel though.
Jews are jewing themselves.

I speak to Israelis on here and they say the same shit happens over there.
People care about gay marriage legalisation more than the economy.
People care more about bringing in millions of niggers rather than helping people who already need help.
They're even pushing the transgender shit over there.
Abortion is perfectly legal MEANWHILE Palestines are breeding like rats and Israel will be less than 50% Jewish if current trends continue.

I know I said sandniggers have stopped breeding heavily in my above post but Gaza is an exception for some reason. I think they're trying to conquer Israel through the womb.

This liberalism is a cancer that has already chopped the west's head off and has now spread to the rest of the world.

The only place it hasn't infected is Africa, which is the only place you'd want it to be.

Jesus Christ.

We have the richest middle class in the world. The average salary in Italy is lower than the Canadian minimum wage and your sales tax are higher than the income tax most of us pay.

You're shitting on one of the most developed countries in the world. One that has less than half the population of Italy but many times the economic, cultural, and political output.

I'm not a fan of Canada btw. I don't like that you're resorting to non-arguments about my flag because you can't formulate a repose to this.

>People care about gay marriage legalisation more than the economy.
But that's exactly the same as my point here: How did we get this far?

Even assuming I don't give a shit about gay rights (give them rights already!), I still think it should not be the top1 priority of a country's political life.

>The only place it hasn't infected is Africa, which is the only place you'd want it to be.
lol

With the unemployment rates being what they are, immigrants just make things worse. Most European countries don't even have enough jobs for natives, let alone unskilled half-apes. This means that the immigrants inevitably end up on welfare. The only solution is to cut pensions

>We have the richest middle class in the world. The average salary in Italy is lower than the Canadian minimum wage and your sales tax are higher than the income tax most of us pay.
Yet lifestyle is still better where I live now.
>You're shitting on one of the most developed
countries in the world. One that has less than half the population of Italy but many times the economic, cultural, and political output.
Because you're sitting on oil, you dumbass. it's not like you have merits. Just luck. A lucky country populated by idiots... wasn't that Canada?
>I'm not a fan of Canada btw. I don't like that you're resorting to non-arguments about my flag because you can't formulate a repose to this.
It was you who started this flame about how all Southern Italians should be deported. Anyway.

It's bullshit and these 'stories' have only started popping up since the open borders for Israel campaigns started. They tried having a gay pride parade in the faggiest city and people were stabbed in the street, if an Israeli politician makes any overtures to the Palestinians he's outright assassinated.

Israel is a borderline fascist ethno-state, don't buy the >muh progressive bullshit now that everyone is catching on to the hypocrisy of the eternal rat.

>The only solution is to cut pensions
But since 20% of our population is over 65, no parliament will ever pass a law that cuts pensions.

I don't give a shit about your economy you fool which one province of 11,000,000 in Canada smashes apart on its own. I want to talk about how Your a literal mixed race Slav in Italy talking about "the only thing that matters is her contribution to humanity."

You're a complete scumbag that has abused the trust of the Italian people. Instead of lynching your Slavic wife/dad they treated them as brothers and let them in with open arms. This 'who gives a fuck about third world immigration' bullshit is how you repay them. What a joke. Sup Forums and Hitler were right again.

I agree m8.
I was totally fine with gay marriage when it came along.
Then trannies came along.
What happens if we normalise them?
A new group.
Then a new group.
Then a new group.

Liberals have nothing to fight for anymore so they're making shit up.
When a republican nominee in THE most religious party in the entire west gets a standing ovation for saying he'd protect gay people - you know things aren't so bad.

They NEED something to fight for. They can't admit that equality is already here.

Their government is.

But their government is their government, they don't make up the entirety of the legislature.

Who do you think Netanyahu beat? An open borders cuck who loves rainbows and unicorns and wants Ethiopian Jews to fuck his wife.

I've been to Israel m8. They have their cucks too, believe me.

>how all Southern Italians should be deported
No you lying rat I specially said.

"Right, nobody denies some Normans settled Southern Italy. Not to mention the Longobards which were German iirc and ruled over that land until the mass Muslim invasion and rape."

"Most people in Southern Italy are Italian. I was just making the point that Italy already has millions of so called 'Italians' that need to be removed from Europe and I shared Canada's experiences with the richest and brightest of these vile beasts."

I believe that mixed raced Italians going on about how "only culture matters" should be hung from lampposts as traitors as well.

>I was totally fine with gay marriage when it came along.
>Then trannies came along.
>What happens if we normalise them?
>A new group.
>Then a new group.
>Then a new group.
Problem is sometimes I wish we normalized everything and put everything behind our backs... just to see what will be the next thing they come up with.

All of that, just to divert the attention from core issues that -- surprise, surprise! -- will not be solved even if you passed the most socially liberal laws in the world.

Please don't argue with q1hefArP
Haven't you noticed he cannot hear you over the sound of his anti-Jewish rambling?
>Implying my thread is about Jews
He's just a fucking troll.

>We have the richest middle class in the world
Then your middle class must be very small
>One that has less than half the population of Italy but many times the economic, cultural, and political output
Living next to the US must have given a pretty skewed perception of reality, no one gives a single fuck about Canada in the real world, nobody has ever heard about any of your inventions, culture or politics

>no one gives a single fuck about Canada in the real world
Except for the fact their prime minister bows to Muslims.

>Implying my thread is about Jews
It is when you literally say "I wish we normalized everything and put everything behind our backs" as if claiming to be a female when you're male and fucking your own gender and never reproducing are healthy things we should tolerate in society.

You sound young and naive which is better than old and retarded i'll admit. These social issues are Jewish tricks to divert from the real issues, as you said. They shouldn't have even been discussed and never would have if it wasn't tor the eternal Jewish rat.

We are overpopulated anyway.

The only reason our politicians care about population numbers is because of "muh GDP!"

Search 'richest middle class' on Google, virtually all list Canada at #1. Again cut out the tricks I don't care to argue about how poor and pathetic your economy is I want to discuss you being a literal mixed race Slav in Italy talking about "the only thing that matters is her contribution to humanity" in regards to a full blown niggress.

You're a complete scumbag that has abused the trust of the Italian people. Instead of lynching your Slavic wife/dad they treated them as brothers and let them in with open arms. This 'who gives a fuck about third world immigration' bullshit is how you repay them. What a joke. Sup Forums and Hitler were right again.

nigger.
Africans are.
We aren't breeding AT ALL.

Let me give you a population rundown from now until 2100:

Europe: Decreases
South America: Stays the same
North America: Stays the same
Oceania: Stays the same
Antarctica: Stays the same
Asia: Increases very slightly
Africa: QUADRUPLES

Italy has far more Muslims than Canada does though, and millions of Italians are brown Muslim rape babies from the invasions of 1000 years ago. Really makes you think. Again you keep pulling the 'shit on flags' trick because you're upset. Cut it out so I don't have to keep mentioning the rape babies.

doesn't your hypothesis presuppose that immigrants are capable of "replacing" the natives? that they'll work just as hard and be equally productive? do you think this is true?

>The only reason our politicians care about population numbers is because of "muh GDP!"
No: it's because of
>muh pensions

Also, why importing migrants when everyone would benefit some good maternity scheme?

But Western people are demanding. They want schools and services, but aren't ready to pay for them... they want privilege without effort.

>Search 'richest middle class' on Google
I did, a lot of images about median wealth showing that we are much richer than you
I have no idea what you're talking about with the slav stuff in the rest of the post or why you're calling me a mixed race slav

>doesn't your hypothesis presuppose that immigrants are capable of "replacing" the natives? that they'll work just as hard and be equally productive? do you think this is true?
I don't.

But I mainly wanted to deal with the Westernized ideology according to which having kids is a bore and if you want to have kids you are somewhat wrong in your mind.

So, I gave for granted (for the sake of the argument) that a population of migrants could fully replace the current one.

Of course they cannot. Not even culturally -- let alone physically.
But the worry stays the same. Even if migrants were able to replace us completely, is it a healthy society the one in which wanting to have kids is seen by women as a pain in the arse?

This whole thread is proof of why Slavs can't be allowed into Northern European countries and why the Brits decided they had to leave the EU to stop it. They're just like kikes in that they know they have a 99% slav home country to flee too once their Northern European neighbours which they could never and will never be able to compete with are destroyed.

This guy already admitted to be a half-slav, inviting the third world is what they've done every single time they have been let into western nations. Perhaps they knew this would get the attention off all the problems they bring, temporarily.

Are you still replying to it?
Questo porcodio sta sostanzialmente smerdando il board con immagini ripetute e copy-pasta del cazzo che non c'entrano una tega con niente.

kids are a pain in the ass. what is the point you're trying to make?

Italy was white. Southern Italy was fair haired and light skinned. Then the third world came and raped millions of them, forever tainting not only Italy's gene pool but all of Europe's.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muslim_conquest_of_Sicily

People assume Italians are naturally darker. Not true, these are the rape genes propagating themselves more Northward every year. The tribes that settled what is now Spain before the Muslim invasions were full blown Scandis as well.

I love traditional Italy, your culture is very special and I pray it will not perish. Godspeed

>kids are a pain in the ass
Typical ideological standpoint.

Again: if there are people like you who claim this, it means society has gone down the hole already.

He's had the Jewish press telling him this is whole life. I don't blame him. 200 years ago even if a goyim went on the streets and starting preaching against motherhood he would be imprisoned and tortured at the very least, or drawn and quartered at the very worst.

wrong pic

Autism is still showing up. Even if you agree with me.
:^)

Everyone on Sup Forums is autistic, that doesn't detract from the argument that he's parroting exactly what the Jewish press feeds him all day and that even mentioning something so destructive would have meant all but certain death during any period in history.

Are you still mad that I mentioned the Muslim mass rape of Southern Italy and the effect on its genetics to this day? Are you one of these niggers that tells yourself you're Italian when everyone knows you're not?

Yeah it's not me. App is switching photos or the mods are fucking with me again. Adios.

again, what's your point? that we need migrants? that we need to start having kids? the population is larger than it has ever been. so what if people have to let go of a few gibs?

>population cannot grow indefinitely
>if the country wants to maintain its welfare system, lack of newborns means there is room for immigrants

I agree with the first point, doubly so because innovation reduces labour needs. Everything in the second point seems wrong to me though.
The current welfare system relies on growing populations; Then because our premise is that growing populations is unsustainable, the welfare system needs to be redesigned.
Lack of newborns does not mean there is room for immigrants. Europe has one of the most immense population densities of the world, land is ridiculously expensive and we have to fight to preserve nature. Immigrants are an artificial weight in the labour market. With a instream of cheap labour, the demand for cheap labour will also remain. "But who would clean our toilet" is a ridiculous argument; Hiring cheap labour to scrub toilets is not the only way to ensure clean toilets, and immigrants are not the only ones offering it.

About your perceived societial disdain for reproduction, it seems to be very recent and doesn't need to be something permanent. It might have been spurred because of campaign for birth control in the last generation, if it is then it should be possible to fix it with a different campaign.

I don't know why you don't wish to marry someone who's religious though.

>The current welfare system relies on growing populations; Then because our premise is that growing populations is unsustainable, the welfare system needs to be redesigned.

whoever designed it that was was fucking retarded

My company will help Italy fix that.

>that we need migrants?
Are you fucking illiterate?

>that we need to start having kids?
Yes. That's my point.

But there was no real point at the start. It was an open question for the board.

Geez, Americans get so itchy. One can't even open a debate without making a specific point, and yet Americans will show up and ask you to make a point at all costs.

Basically, I opened the thread by saying:
>even assuming migrants could fix the pop decline, isn't it sad to live in a society where having kids is seen as a negative thing by women?

No, I don't need to make a point. I have just asked a question. And gave some context for it (e.g. the demographics in Italy, etc.)

So it is true all Americans are functionally illiterate... because it seems to me that all the other Nethercucks and whatnot who responded to this thread were perfectly able to have a conversation with me without having to ask me to be more specific. Geez you guys are so fucking autistic...

A says "B".
No. You need C to draw an arrow that says: "Hello, this is A and A has just uttered B. And by B he means C."
For Christ's sake.

>My company will help Italy fix that.
Tell us more about your company.
Are you a merc?

>whoever designed it that was was fucking retarded
Surprise surprise... although Socialists and Communists were strong after WW2, the main party for 50 years has been that of Christian Democrats, which are more Republican -- even if you cannot really compare.
Unsurprisingly, they were funded by Americans (whereas the Italian Communist party, i.e. the biggest Communist party in the Western world, was subsidized by Soviets).
I'm not blaming it all on Americans, but it is somewhat surprising to remark that a country whose Capitalism is so stronk helped a party that supported ill-conceived welfare in Europe -- such as the Christian Democrats party.

Just sayin'...

>can't maintain welfare state with fewer births

This meme needs to die. What is automation? What is efficiency gain?

> pretending to be italian


so what if people don't want to have tons of kids? like the other poster said, a welfare system that depends on constant population growth is more the problem..

this too.

look at our national budget. gibs aren't even nearly the biggest expense anyway.

They came at just the right time then...

>so what if people don't want to have tons of kids?
I don't want to commit a naturalistic fallacy... but unless you believe there is something else to nature... well... having kids is possibly one of the most basic aspects of natural life for mammals. So I am not saying that everyone should have kids...
...but if you take a bunch of people from a species and MOST of them don't want to have kids... then it's a dying population. Something's seriously wrong with them. And I mean in the biological sense.

Of course people can go around and make moral arguments to justify their behaviour:
>I make kids because I am a Christian
>I don't make kids because Capitalism sucks
But aside all the rationales, it all breaks down to the fact reproduction is a bit like eating and pissing... it is not a matter of right or wrong -- it is one of the few cornerstones of being a mammal. You can be in denial, but you cannot change the way things are.

Or have we already crossed that stage in which we all become ants and the Queen is the only one who reproduces by mating with her negro slaves?

So our money is being stolen.
I'm glad you redpilled me on this. I stand by your statement now.

A-user... i-is w-w-war y-your b-b-biggest e-expense?

why do you think most people don't want kids?

i suppose you could blame birth control.

>why do you think most people don't want kids?
Brainwashing.

But in Italy, in particular, there's a further problem.
If you grew up in a middle-class family, as I did, you would know that middle-class families are excessively demanding when it comes to child-rearing.
Basically, you grow up with your parents telling you that the bar for growing up a decent kid (as they allegedly did) is so high you start seeing it as a problem.
Same goes for housing and the like. Parents set the bar so high, kids grow up thinking certain things are impossible unless you get everything right.

But at some stage you have to make a move!
Our society has completely forgotten risk-taking and its value. I am not saying you should hurl yourself mindlessly into life events -- but here it seems that nobody wants to make a step until they're sure they'll win the match. Result: nobody makes a step forward -- ever!

On top of that, we find all the other ideological brainwashing that results from our access into the marvellous world of neo-capitalism.
Women work and do not want to lose their social advantage. They also act in a bipolar way: by being excessively prude when it comes to decent dating and serious commitments; on the other hand, they whore around as much as they can, but to no avail.
People complain about a great variety of things.

There also a widespread belief according to which everything that somewhat relates back to a traditional family (i.e. father + mother + kids + granny) is somewhat flawed and should be considered tantamount to cancer.
This is what puzzles me most. Of course women don't want to go back to the times in which they could only spend time in the fields or in the kitchen. Of course. But they have also gone down the slippery slope and now they think that everything that looks like a normal family is, in fact, cancer and abnormal.

Let me trigger you: what if more birth control gives access to family planning and ensures people will feel safer when they enter pregnancy?

>People complain about a great variety of things.
As I am doing now.
With the difference I made a lot of moves but they brought me nowhere in the family-sense of things.
But I have my own problems.

It's much better on the working side because if you have enough of a healthy risk-taking attitude, you can seize better jobs.

t. one of my (adult) studs renounced a chance to become head shopkeeper just because she "didn't feel like it". Her boss had literally given her the possibility to become boss in her stead, but she said something on the lines of "it's a difficult brand, and I feel not ready". Now she's unemployed again.

Do people even need to work these days? It seems to me unemployment is being enjoyed by some.

with birth control and the high cost of raising children, there's no reason to have kids.

i don't think it's anything as complicated as "ideological brainwashing"

>high cost of raising children
But is this a factual cost or is this just "the idea" people have of it?
I have friends who have luckily married young, their families are supporting them, and they have revealed to me that, in fact, the more kids you have, the lesser the per capita cost of each of them.

So, again: they did some good planning and it turned out not to be the mayhem everyone expected it to be.

I still stand by the claim it is ideological fear that pushes people away from fatherhood.
Maybe in America it is different. But we still have some semblance of welfare, here.

the cost of one kid is high enough.

personally, i find it hard to focus on more than one thing. having a child would be impossibly distracting and would keep me from reaching my goals.

>personally, i find it hard to focus on more than one thing. having a child would be impossibly distracting and would keep me from reaching my goals.
Questions:
1. Can you make an example of your goals?
2. Why don't you just impregnate a girl and leave her behind? You'd still do much better than your average Afro-american friend.
There's even a chance he turns out to be a wonderful kid.

1) that's a personal question and i'm not comfortable answering it here

2) shitty thing to do, also child support payments.