Should Bakers Have to Serve Gay Marriages?

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On Monday morning, the Supreme Court put off, for a second time, the decision whether to hear Masterpiece Cakeshop v. Colorado Civil Rights Commission, but the core of the issue is unlikely to remain unresolved for long. The case is just one of a number of disputes in which small-business owners have refused to provide their usual services—cakes, flowers, photography, or marriage venues—to same-sex couples for their weddings, notwithstanding state or local laws forbidding discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation. The venders, usually sole proprietors, have argued that same-sex marriage offends their religious convictions, and that the anti-discrimination laws therefore violate their First Amendment rights, either by compelling them to engage in speech they don’t agree with—forcing them, in their attorneys’ words, to “honor,” “celebrate,” or “participate in” a same-sex marriage—or by interfering with their “free exercise of religion.”

“It’s a very hard question,” he said. “Doctrinally, it could go either way.” Eskridge has been active in gay-rights litigation for twenty-five years—he filed a marriage-equality case for a client in Washington, D.C., back in 1990—but he also believes that the legitimate rights of religious minorities have been neglected by judges.

After the incident at Masterpiece Cakeshop became public, another bakery provided Craig and Mullins with a cake, adorned with a rainbow, at no charge. But the affront gnawed at the couple, and they filed a discrimination charge with Colorado’s Civil Rights Commission that September. The commission brought a case against Phillips and his shop in May, 2013.

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Yet, from the standpoint of individual liberty, a mammoth corporation, such as Woolworth’s, is different from a mom-and-pop business. The regulatory machinery has been hesitant to tell individuals how to behave on their own premises, no matter how repugnant their behavior may seem. To this day, as Eskridge observes, the federal employment-discrimination laws do not apply to businesses with fewer than fifteen employees, and housing-discrimination laws do not affect owner-occupied buildings with four units or fewer.

Also, a Woolworth’s luncheonette could not plausibly have claimed that serving a plate of hash browns was a form of expression protected by the First Amendment. In the Masterpiece Cakeshop case, and disputes like it, the sole proprietors often argue that their work contains a strong expressive element, subject to First Amendment protections. In Phillips’s briefs, for instance, his lawyers never describe him as a “baker” but always as a “cake artist,” arguing that a wedding cake “forms the centerpiece of a ritual in which the couple celebrates their marriage,” and that it “communicates this special celebratory message. Slicing a pizza or pot roast would not have the same effect.”

Judges have rejected these arguments so far, in part because Phillips’s refusal to serve Craig and Mullins was so categorical, and their conversation so brief. They never reached potentially relevant details such as what, if anything, would be inscribed on the cake.

“For all Phillips knew at the time,” an administrative-law judge ruled, in 2013—in a decision later adopted by the Colorado Civil Rights Commission and upheld by the state appeals court—Craig and Mullins “may have wanted a nondescript cake suitable for consumption at any wedding.” The commission has conceded that Phillips could have lawfully declined to write messages that he disagreed with on the cake, and it has previously allowed bakers to refuse to adorn cakes with white-supremacist and anti-Muslim messages.

you are free to serve or not serve someone, for ANY reason you wish

how the fuck is this debatable? you cant force them to do it

fucking stupid government loving faggots

Well if you are a lunch counter you must serve Black people.

Only if it's not a Muslim bakery. Then we must respect their religion.

No ,the marketplace should sort things like this out. You should be able to put a WHITES ONLY sign up and run your business that way, and people who don't like it should avoid your store. This isn't someone's civil rights at issue, it's buying a cake. Go buy your fag cake somewhere else and tell all your fag friends. If your business fails from too many self imposed customer restrictions or from bad PR then that is on you.

The biggest misconception about racism in the south was that it was primarily driven by the businesses - this is not the case. It was driven by laws I.E. the government. If it's a law that you have to have a separate eating area for black people or you get fined then that is not the business owner deciding anything.

>“It’s a very hard question,”
no. no its not. only an selfish lgbt degenerates think it is.

you either have the government force everyone to be "nice" to faggots,
or you just dont force anyone to do anything, and let them buy their fucking cake from someone else.

Of course, Christian, Muslim, Jewish and ect bakeries should all have the same standard.

No. We have a word for forcing someone to work for you and that's "slavery".

Why the fuck would you want to buy your cake from someone who despises you anyway?

Is the left really this fucking retarded?

Just find another fucking baker, it's not like there's only one bakery in all of the US is it?

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As long as you don't have to go to the wedding/reception I think you have to serve them. If I can't kick out faggots from my restaurant, these bakers have to make a fucking cake.

On one hand, I think the right to associate with whom one wants is fairly fundamental. On the other hand, if your establishment is open to the public then you should have to serve the public.

fuck off NSA

Yes.

It's not about "being nice", you have to provide your service for everyone retard.

Mysteriously the ACLU has no interest in protecting the religious and civil rights of white christian republicans.

But I'm sure it's just an oversight.

>The venders, usually sole proprietors, have argued that same-sex marriage offends their religious convictions, and that the anti-discrimination laws therefore violate their First Amendment rights,

This is all manufacture bullshit.

When you incorporate your business with the state, you agree contractually to follow all the laws of the state, fed, etc.

If you're too religious to follow the laws, then don't incorporate. It's just that simple.

You open this fucking door for butthurt xtians to mistreat people, then you give that right to muslims, jews and satanists to do the same or worse thing to you.

No. Who cares. It's their loss. Just go somewhere else.

If I go to a gay baker and ask for a cake that says "the Bible says homosexuals will go to hell, also homosexuality is a mental illness", I wouldn't expect them to make it either

>It's not about "being nice", you have to provide your service for everyone retard
No you don't.

This flagrant disregard for basic property rights is the core moral issue with the west today. Damn near everything you see today is rooted in this utter lack for others property rights

You should do that and sue them when they say no.

From a business point of view what does it matter? shit I mean if you were clever enough you could charge them more.

Force a jewish lawyer to take a neo-nazi client who is covered in swastika tattoos.

Hmm looks like nobody is willing to take the jew to court to force his labor, wonder why.

Yes you do, it's the law.

>Have to
Suck my dick

>Force a jewish lawyer to take a neo-nazi client who is covered in swastika tattoos.
Poor example. I would think such a lawyer would be delighted to ensure the legal system works to the fullest extent for such a client.

>Yes you do, it's the law.
Not in the US. And it shouldn't be law anywhere, private businesses reserve the right to deny anyone service for any reason.

Except that they don't.

You're an idiot if you deny someone service these days. We have a policy at my company that we never deny anyone service. we charge them double or tell them we are fully booked.

Can you force muslim bakers to write "Allah is Gay" on top of a cake?

trick question, muslims don't contribute to american society

We need to pass a Freedom of Association constitution amendment which states that people or groups have the right to exclude anyone they wish from their property or group or to refuse involvement with said persons for any reason.

Please call your representatives asking for this amendment. Now is the time, when we have a huge majority of state legislatures.

>We need to pass a Freedom of Association constitution amendment which states that people or groups have the right to exclude anyone they wish from their property or group or to refuse involvement with said persons for any reason.
We already have freedom of association. Why would you sign a contract agreeing to follow the law if don't intend to? Why commit fraud?

>We already have freedom of association.

We don't. It wasn't included in the constitution or bill of rights.

And obviously we don't have it since we can force people to sell things to others or to employ people they don't want to employ.

>Why would you sign a contract agreeing to follow the law if don't intend to?

I have no idea what you're talking about.

So if a pharmacist is Catholic he should be free to decline giving birth control pills to a woman?

Should hospitals have to treat Gay injuries such as pickle jars stuck in ass?

They already decided on the gay marriage flower case that happened in my home town. Lady served individuals flowers for years but then refused to do it for their wedding. The court ruled that she had to provide for the wedding.

I thnik, if a man tells that he'll bake a cake, he have to bake a cake even if Trump himself asked for one. Even if he was homo.

Why don't the bakers just make the faggots a really shitty cake?

Is it legal tender? Is there a gold standard? Take their funds and get your minds out of kikery's lies and from the gutter and do your fucking jobs. It's nice seeing trump supporters getting what they deserve

You should be allowed to deny yourself profits to make a point.

What's the point of freedom if you can't deny service?

>that pic

A dowry has nothing to do with the definition of marriage. The purpose of a dowry what's the show that you, the prospective bridegroom, have the financial resources to support not only another person but also a family.


Retards who insist otherwise are just that, retards

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That argument only applies after payment has been accepted.
If there is no agreement, you shouldn't act as if there was an agreement.
I can say "I will sell this antique for $10,000 to anyone but you, for [reasons]", and I don't think anyone would complain.

Have you ever seen the movie "Gremlins"? Same idea. I should be able to not sell something to somebody for any reason I want, unless it's a service that people can't do without, such as medical care.

Yes. That's exactly what he is saying.

Used to be that you could be free as long as your freedom didn't impede on the physical well being and potential freedom of others. Now they have expanded that to mean not just the physical well being but the emotional well being of others. Unfortunately emotions are fickle and there is no way to set a standard definition of offensive and unoffensive.

And these freaks wonder why we hate them.

but then that sets the standard that you can deny people medical care for religion

i would do it its just a cake

This fenpai. Use salt instead of sugar. NO REFUNDS sign in window

Because crushed wheat and eggs. Keep freakin the fuck out and ignoring serpent seed and the gender that caused the fall of mankind through your own sex. I'd say that's a little more important than judging your custies as fags because you entrapped them. Is there a sign saying no fags. No. They deny only once they find out. Cuz they kinda gotta know the people's names. We cant deny you medicine. But we gotta force secular wedding cakes and have MEN bake them instead. Men dont bake. So they are kind of made to be in a positio. Many positions. This is why trump pussies are getting beat up everywhere. Golden rule. Fucking follow it

capitalism promotes a social contract that if you have the money you can get the product, bringing political or social or religious conflict to a bargaining table is financially stupid.
If denying people your goods or services is your way of burning a cross on their lawn, you should get your ass reamed.

this pasta makes no sense. Either way, it's going right in the old .txt

That is not a true statement though. And just like this couple who got denied for that. Or anything else. Are also not true or righteous or just. You shouldnt give reasons. Gays should lie and then get the products. And then egg the bakery along with their lawsuit papers and pictures from their wedding

this isn't pasta. I see you have not met schizogayleaf yet....

If people are wiling to accept the costs then they should be able to do it.
Some people believe that there are things more important in the world than making money.

The slippery slope works in both directions. For both the left and the right. Once you start setting precedent in either direction then people will inevitably push it farther in that direction.

NO FAGS. BTFO

Why come here if that's all you ever say? Learn to read better. This isnt fucken brain surgery. Nice try shlomo. From one oven to the next I guess eh

We need the restoration of freedom of association.

How about all of y'all gross pieces of shit end up on an ice floe
I am the only correct or sane user or real Christian on this whole board. You can have memes? I will fucken meme agaisnt them anyday. Schizo doesnt exist. Jews have most mental illnesses because nobody loves them. Only Satan. They lie even to God

possible. also possible you are nuts

>repeats self 52 times
We caught up. Everything you say is complete bullshit. I hate secular devil lovers like you. You got this way because of heterosexuality. Period.

>but then that sets the standard that you can deny people medical care for religion
>Implying birth control or abortion are medical care
>imply most sensible religious people can't just go to another doctor

Good.

...

Let's just calm down Sethy. Wouldn't want you to shut things down.

Just shut your fat fungus mouth you nasty little cunt. Worse than females is a male denying "male". Bow DOWN for those shoe shopping trips, bitch. Change those diapers. Sign that alimony cheque

they should just hire muslims and shield themselves from lawsuits

As best ally blows up some towers. This is not a muslim bakery. Kikes wouldnt be any different. No fags for muslims. But trannies are ok. No females. Then no males at all at the kike one. Because males are shit and they are matrilineal. Who caused all this. Them. And women. You can call it Sabbateans' Sundaes

Oh noo I'm not. Imma take another swill of my liquor bottle, and them bash Julio over the head with it

Is there even a statistic on how many gay marriages there are a year?
Sounds like a shakedown method and less like a common conflict

>you are free to serve or not serve someone, for ANY reason you wish
that's simply not true.
what you think is the law =/= the actual fucking law

prisons are literally full of people who thought they knew the law

>another bakery provided Craig and Mullins with a cake, adorned with a rainbow, at no charge. But the affront gnawed at the couple, and they filed a discrimination charge with Colorado’s Civil Rights Commission that September.
Feeling sympathy for these people might be a sign of mental illness desu senpai.

Businesses should be allowed to discriminate against anyone they want unless it's some essential service that can't be gotten anywhere else. If the baker doesn't want to make a dildo cake for some perverts, they can head over to the bakery a block down and get their dildo cake there.

That's what a sane person would do. A mentally ill person would spend years trying to legally punish the baker for not baking them a dildo cake.

You dont have to have this happen to your original sinning INVENTION of menta illnesses fish cakes. And much else. So do it first before you leave for 52 more stores for mentally ill and sinning fucking tuna mucus cakes. Women dont use dildos are you crazy? Maybe (not) make you a half shit cake because youre all half into anal or are halves of fags. You have no balls. You want somebody else to suffer? You suffer first by somebody else's hands. THEN you talk. Or you do this on here and squawk and get punished anyways

It's a free market. If the bakers don't want your money just go to their competitor. How is this an issue?

This might be applied to jobs related to Law enforcement(Police, FBI), a person's health(Ambulance drivers, doctors) and such, they are commanded by someone and must follow orders and instructions, for it's part of their job

A chef or baker (Who works at it's own restaurant) it's his own boss, and do whatever the fuck he wants if it doesn't break the law (Hygiene, for example)

How is a chef or baker breaking to law when they hold to right to refuse service?

How did the anti bernie pro trump tow truck driver apply this? The one who refused a woman a tow because she had stickers that hurt his feelings. Capitalism is garbage. The argument can be made that we need cakes now. That certain people would be fucked and cant expect to be baking them. And that that tow guy was denying her an essential service that could have killed her. Then certain restaurants promote immigration or ban Chump twats and you all scream and bitch and moan and cry til your cow parents come home

Again, this man was his own boss, he had no obligation of helping anyone if he didn't want to.

Even if it's a life or death situation, it's still on his hands and he deosn't want to, well fuck you I guess.

Now, this could also be applied to cooks that refused service to people wearing Trump hats, there's bias in both sides, but it's the cook's choice, not the customers.