Sup Forums Redpill me on ObamaCare

Media is so polarized nowadays that it is impossible to separate fact from propaganda. Mainstream media says 24 million people will lose any kind of health insurance if ObamaCare is repealed.
How does ObamaCare is working right now for you muricans?

I liked being able to stay on my parents' healthcare but now I'm too old. I do not like being forced to buy healthcare in an uncompetitive system or else pay a fine. Right now I'm unemployed and getting it through medicare. But soon I will start working again and have to pay an unreasonable chunk of my paycheck for a shit tier plan. Unless, of course, I get into this union...

Anyway Obamacare is objectively shit, it was basically written by Mitt Romney and the health insurance companies. Looks like the replacement bill is even worse because it doesn't do anything about the unreasonable cost of pharmaceuticals (and guess who helped write this shit) and will still force Americans to buy shit in an uncompetitive anti-free market system.

I agree 100%. I'm in the same boat, minus the unemployment.

>Mainstream media says 24 million people will lose

1. They are full of shit
2. People were forced to get Obamacare or be fined or possibly jailed.

Medicare for all is the solution.

Listen, I'm in medicine. You can't take a free market approach to medicine... because people won't let you.

Emotions are too tied into it because any business choices I make (turning away people, raising prices, refusing to use certain procedures) can lead to death. And any action I take that leads to death (while knowing there was another way to go that would have saved the patient) leads to me being sued.

So instead of stopping my treatment of someone, I have to do things like find another doctor who is the equivalent of my skill. Or close enough. And refer to them.

Simplifying everything by just having a single provider (so much of healthcare cost is in administration/billing) will save.

I'll still have to compete with other doctors (keeping prices lower than if there was no competition) but this just simplifies everything.

The ACA was a step in that direction, but shit the bed because Americans hate any whiff of socialism.

It brings a lot of us down to a lower level of care so that freeloaders can get gov't insurance. this gov't insurance is paid by the same taxpayer that now has less choice, more cost and less care.

yes, tons of people will lose their insurance but they only have it because its gov't freebies.

Healthcare in america is a disfuctional monster, but instead of reforming it, he just gave them a shit ton of new customers with the federal government (taxpayer) to foot the bill.

the bigger issue is what to do with medicaid.

the projections are junk, they are just saying in 10 years the uninsured will look just like before obama (ie, reversion to the mean)

that is highly unlikely--it is just a modeler admitting he has no fucking clue (ie, trend is past=future with anomoly)

now, with medicaid...nothing really happens until 2020...so immediat next 4 years is just people rebalancing...not a whole lot will change, its all about the plans and the pricing (which the CBO got completely wrong before).

after 2020, the medicaid issue will revert to the states. The states will need to raise STATE taxes to pay for benefits--if they fail to raise taxes and kick people off the system--that is the problem for each state. (Feds will no longer subsidize state by state increase beyond a fixed amount.)

Note that NY and CA have big issues--essentially they states will have to raise taxes on rich dems to pay for services to poor dems---which of course rich dems hate

Now you get it, user?

Nobody is getting dropped or losing coverage, what is happening is that the new plan will force costs to either come under control (and nobody really will lose coverage), it it will push the cost of obamacare onto the states (many dem states...) and the states will have to kick people out or raise taxes.

Its worth pointing out that the hugest amount of rich people should probably be paying for the poor if you believe them....99% obama voters....but we shall see.

Money not always where mouth is.

It's the CBO, not the media. You can read the report yourself.

I'd ask you to link me to the counter numbers by the people who wrote the bill, but I know they didn't produce any (because they never bothered to analyze the impact).

And obviously. The individual mandate is required to make insurance affordable.

If you allow people to get insurance with pre-existing conditions, you have to get someone to pay for it. Insurance has to make money, so it can't rely on people who actually use it (unless it charges more than the cost of their payout, but then why use insurance? Just pay the doctor directly).

Removing the individual mandate without raising taxes to cover it will lead to less young people getting insurance, raising rates on the elderly, which raises premiums across the board and makes it harder to get insurance for young people (leading to a feedback loop)

Here in Huezil the constitution provides universal healthcare to all citizens. You will still need some private healthcare because basic healthcare is shitty.
But it is not rare to someone to sue the government and make it to pay for expensive treatments and drugs.
As I see, you americans are completely on your own, that's scary.

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>It's the CBO, not the media. You can read the report yourself.

The CBO is so far off projection for obama care its not really worth believing they can forecast jack shit.

read my post above -- everything is about political decisions made in years 4-10 which you cannot forecast by econometrics.

Its a smart plan to put the burden of obamacare on the dems state house votes.

It forces the dems to kill obamacare, which is why they hate it.

“The one thing I’m certain will happen is CBO will say, ‘Well, gosh, not as many people will get coverage,’” Ryan said on CBS’ Face the Nation on Sunday. “You know why? Because this isn’t a government mandate.”

Obamacare was a failure from the beginning. Didn't you listen to Jonathan Gruber

"Americans would not support a tax on individuals, so “We just tax the insurance companies, they pass on the higher prices ... it ends up being the same thing.” The ruse, Gruber says, was “a very clever ... basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter.”

You're blinded by ideology.

>It forces the dems to kill obamacare, which is why they hate it.

or keep it...just will pay for it by state revenues because the Feds will cover most expenses but not huge growth in prices if the system doesn't come under control in 10 years.

>"Americans would not support a tax on individuals, so “We just tax the insurance companies, they pass on the higher prices ... it ends up being the same thing.” The ruse, Gruber says, was “a very clever ... basic exploitation of the lack of economic understanding of the American voter.”

This guy gets it...

who gives a fuck who loses it?
let them vote how they'll vote
what about the other 300 million people who actually pay for health insurance?
Fuck the 24 million niggers to death

So that was socialism that caused my private non Obongo care to skyrocket in cost? Or the fact that anytime 'free' money is given by the govt (see student loans, housing), the free market rises everything up?

I got great rates when obamacare started, but the same plan almost tripled in price over two years.

I lowered my plan to make is more reasonable, but that might not last too long.

If obamacare gets pulled I'll most likely have no insurance for a while.

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>Medicare for all is the solution.

This is actually a better solution than obama care...the only people who can have leverage over the drug and insurance cartels is the Feds...

The problem is getting a non-political beuracracy not run by leftists to operate it.

The counrty is so polarized now that its probably wishful thinking, howver.

Nobody can realy negotiate fairly when buying healthcare...the timing and the risk situation don't allow for symmetric informatin balance and search costs for care providers are opaque and rediculous to overcome.

So the free market for healthcare is a bit of a myth on the buy side.

On the sellside, its all now cartels and oligopoly structures (consolidation etc)

I remember seeing a documentary by Michael Moore (when he didn't suck balls) about HealthCare in America (don't remember the name of the doc).
It showed the case of a man who had an accident with a lawnmower and lost two fingers.
He just had money for the replantation of one finger so he choose the ring finger so he could still wear his wedding ring.
This is sick! And it would not happen even here in the third world!
What happens if I'm a hard work american and then I get cancer and can't afford the treatment?
Some states cover people who can't afford?

didn't see it, but it sounds cherry picked...you'll always have people who get screwed by the system
the system is awful, no doubt about it, but i don't think the solution is to give it to everyone, even if they don't work/contribute, on the dime of the american working class.

The CBO was off projection because of a Supreme Court ruling that allowed the States to undermine a key provision.

That's like blaming a company for having a poor budget projection when one of their factories exploded. The CBO projection was only off because of the lack of medicaid adoption by some States.

Also, it wasn't that far off. 43% vs the 50% projected, even with all that.

Why would your plan be to force the Dems to do anything? They don't have the votes to do anything in Washington themselves, so you can't make them enact policy unless you already are planning on losing big in 2018.

No, I'm actually in the medical field.

Almost every medical association has come out against this shit show of a bill. The only real impact is it removes the tax increases (mostly on the upper class) which were funding portions of Obama care.

The end result is much higher medical costs with lower coverage for people who overwhelming voted for Trump. That's just stats.

But yeah, rely on ideology. Americans literally will change what they consider freedom (New Deal, Progressive era, etc.) if they get frustrated enough with the economy and their living situation.

Pushing this is a gift for the liberal politicians in America.

Obama cared.

>Almost every medical association has come out against this shit show of a bill.
And Obamacare wasn't? It was literally based on lies. "If you like your Dr. or your plan you can keep it" "you have to pass it before you can read it" Then the idiot Roberts had to re-write it and call it what it originally intended to be, a tax, in order to get it passed. Liberals shoved a massive idiotic shit sandwich on the public. At least with the Republicans they will argue over it.

...what?

Are you that deluded?

Even accepting your criticisms of Obamacare, this current bill was literally (until brought to the floor, where it is being treated as a budget amendment in order to get it passed without allowing further debate) kept hidden from anyone but Republicans.

They literally kept it in a basement in the capital where they didn't let anyone other than republicans read it until it was brought to the initial votes. And they didn't even wait for analysis on it to start the legislative process.

There was massive argument about the ACA, and the fact they couldn't get Liberman on board was why it didn't have a public option.

Literally (and yeah, as in, the actual definition of literally) all of your points apply to the current Republican offering