America pays the most for healthcare, and we are the unhealthiest first world nation...

America pays the most for healthcare, and we are the unhealthiest first world nation. A cancer diagnosis is a financial nightmare that could very well force a second mortgage on your home if you make less than 200k a year.

A universal healthcare tax system would be cheaper than our insurance system. We are currently pay 3x the amount for healthcare on average. If we had universal healthcare, we would still have doctor appointments, despite the long wait myth.

Why shouldn't America have universal healthcare?

Why is this private system better for the people?

Other urls found in this thread:

who.int/countries/en/
fee.org/resources/socialized-health-care-the-communist-dream-and-the-soviet-reality/
time.com/4327126/teen-girls-implants-genital-plastic-surgery/?iid=obinsite
twitter.com/NSFWRedditImage

On principle I would oppose universal healthcare, but if would be difficult to do so consistently had the ACA actually lowered costs to what is found in other European countries.
Too bad it didn't do that at all, actually slightly increased costs, and merely spread them around.

>Why shouldn't America have universal healthcare?

The pharma industry is a virtual monopoly that engages in hardcore price fixing (see other countries)

All you accomplish is taxing everyone to pay at 20x the price for garbage care with high premiums and deductibles

Trump talks about this a lot, not that you listen haha

universal health care sucks for anything that isnt
1) a quick thing you can get dealt with in 30 minutes at a clinic
2) an emergency

anything other than that, enjoy waiting several months to get it dealt with

Universal healthcare would liquidate private companies, there are no room for CEOs and stocks.

Pharma != insurance

Meanwhile in the real world it's the USA where the monopoly is causing the prices to be 20x everywhere else.
I'm not saying tax funded healthcare is a good thing but rather that copyrights are the cancer killing the healthcare industry.

But private healthcare is much more affordable where there is a public healthcare.
In Italy we have the paradox of public HC costing more than private because they tax the shit out of you

americans are redneck retards

we all know now

These countries don't have a huge nigger and Mexican population that shoot each other, use drugs and eat garbage, driving up costs.

Many third world countries also have universial healthcare. It is much cheaper for everyone. Universial healthcare that is done not-for-profit would be like $20 per month per person to cover everything. The rich could pay more of that bill than the poor. Raise the income tax by 0.3% then Americans would have more than enough to avoid paying any health insurance. Everything would be covered.

Furthermore, the government, (in some way), funds well over half the costs of healthcare, meaning if were as simple as reducing our healthcare to what is found in other countries while saving almost all private spending and much government spending. I.e., healthcare coverage would be better while total spending would be much, much lower, which just about no conservative could successful oppose, and I think, for whatever reason, it's just not possible in America, or not possible with the quality of healthcare in other countries. Otherwise, individual states would have tried this decades ago, (in which nothing legally stops them), which supposedly results in better healthcare, with larger coverage, and reduced spending.

Socialism no work

Believe it or not, you aren't actually contributing to the discussion and are just shitposting.

like pottery

It would not be 20x the price with universial healthcare because it would work like everywhere else. Drug companies would lower their prices so that they can provide the "standard" drug. They can price it 20x more than everywhere else in America because the only people who directly buy them are the sick who need it to live. If water was privately owned and sold then it would cost $50 per gallon because people need it to live and will pay whatever to get it.

Seems to work for many other countries.

Actually, as of 2016, Switzerland pays the most in the world for healthcare.

Lmao, we have universal healthcare and are way more healthy than americans. Must suck paying extra because you think it sounds too good to be true.

>China
>India
>Russian

all missing... strange.

>all listed are smallish mostly homogenous (for now) countries

The almonds be activating.

You have a serious alcoholism problem.

sooo ... acording to this pic there are 195 countries in the world , 29 have universal health coverage and america is in another 166 countries that dont have it...
btf in 1/3 of those countries who have it it is disaster , not working well or consuming tremendous amounts of tax money (for examle in poland and america (before 2017) all of the above)

>Hungary listed

Hungary's healthcare is absolute fucking garbage. Get this shit out of here.

aaaaaaaaaaaaaand it's failing in all those countries

the slide didn't move back the anime grill is not kill

Leaf here, posting from the socialist bastion of free healthcare.

I haven't had a family doctor in almost 15 years. I haven't had a checkup since I was a teenager.

The average wait time at a walk-in clinic in my town is 4-5 hours. The emergency room in our town recently closed for a week because the doctors went on vacation.

My dad was diagnosed with a throat problem, and told to see a specialist. It took 6 months to get in to see the specialist, and the wait time for the surgery he would need was put at 2-3 years.

Everything takes forever, the quality of care is half-ass, and the medications and procedures are all 20 years out of date at least.

Anyone with a brain and bit of money goes to the US for their procedures. Black market healthcare is a huge industry.

Don't fall for the bullshit.

raise taxes on it, you guys pay jack shit for it

In other countries, are doctors simply paid less than in America? I imagine a lot is saved in getting prescriptions costs down, but that still makes up a minority of the costs of healthcare.

It appears to work the best in countries with tightly controlled immigration, voter id, etc to help ensure that everyone getting in the system contributes to the system.

In america we have too many freeloaders to make it work.

Give us a strong border, employer restrictions on illegals, voter ids, and strong deportation of illegals and I'd be for it.

Currently in america I can go into pretty much any ER waiting room in the country in populated areas and find it absolutely loaded with illegals there for drunk driving accidents on the weekends for example.

Why should I want to pay for people's healthcare that not only don't pay into the system but care more about mexico or islam or the nation of Dindu than our country?

>Why shouldn't America have universal healthcare?

Health insurance companies won't allow it.

Obamacare is just forcing people to buy health insurance from a private provider for their profit, that's why Obamacare sucks.

>despite the long wait myth.
It's not a myth. Fuck you, Bernout. t. Swede.

Fine, lets compromise. We can have universal health care, but illegals are ALL deported. Straight up round those fuckers up. Birthright citizenry is ended, and illegals can't get health care at emergency rooms.

Deal?

Cool, good luck convincing the second most powerful lobby (globally) to abandon their crack like profits for what they will call near communist socialism. You'll succeed, no doubt, just like Obama did with his stellar program!

CEOs are paid, not doctors.

Wow! A based leaf! Don't see too many of you around!

So this is still true? In the US they tell us it's a right wing lie and just a foil you know.

Thanks leaf, I know a lot of Canadians are still based. I suspect it's because you have lots of rural areas unpoisoned by urbanite leftism mental illness. Do you live in an urban area or rural?

Okay? What percentage is CEO connected to medical industries of all healthcare spending?

Trump is doing to hard part for us, prices are going to go up, care will go down. People were content with ACA, but now it's gonna be another push for universal healthcare

see pic

all your doctors leave and come to america because insurance and phrama companies will pay them to shill drugs. Canada has a doctor shortage.

>People were content with ACA

T. not poor but means well

American healthcare is fine you just have to get your costs under control. Medicaid and Medicare are imploding.

Canadian healthcare is a meme and basically unusable if you aren't dying.

That doesn't answer my question. I was only speaking of doctor pay as a proportion of total healthcare spending to determine how other countries have lower costs. How much CEO's are paid would only be relevant as a percentage of total healthcare costs, and even then, as compared to other countries. Listing the profit margin of these industries is unhelpful, as it doesn't indicate how much goes to the CEO, nor how much this percentage is of total healthcare spending, how this percentage compared to CEOs of health companies in other countries with lower costs.

American doctors make quite a bit more in absolute dollars than other countries, not even considering the strength of the US dollar.

>Medicaid and Medicare are imploding.
I second this. It's ultimately what's bankrupting us, not discretionary spending, i.e., not spending that can be cut merely through passing budgets.

Good luck going to public sector for your healthcare lmao even if it's "free". You're going to wait and wait and wait and the service you get will be shit, usually people call it the "Guessing Center". You go to a private healthcare center if you want anything done and you pay premium for it

fuck the government. that's why. the least control they have the better. i'd rather die from not being to afford treatment than knowing these worthless fucks have more control than they should have

Thank you for answering the question. If that were the case, I would expect the brain drain of doctors to the US to be greater than it is, thereby reducing costs further.

Because it would cost over a trillion a year, which is half of ALL federal spending. We are to big and have too many moochers for another entitlement, especially one that large.

As far as health: Tax fast food, corn syrup, sugar and alcohol like cigarettes. Make it illegal to use SNAP to buy shit that makes you unhealthy. Deny hams health insurance until they are at a 25bmi, and take children from fatties and give them to childless couples to raise.

Prob w universal healthcare is that it doesn't spur aggressive pharmacological reasesrch.

The key to maintaining Americans pharmaceutical prowess is giving these same companies the ability to create "leisure" drugs so the people that want leisure drugs can foot the R&D costs rather than the cancer patient.

Damn where do you live? My family doctor has walk in clinic hours and i only have to wait 15-30 minutes. Last time I went to the hospital was to get a couple stitches and I was in and out in an hour

This is exactly why many of my fellow citizens hate the idea.

So how do other countries manage to have better health results while spending much less per capita on their citizens, like Canada? If you took the money the US Government spent, (which spends well over half the total costs of healthcare in the US), and spent it as efficiently as Canada, we could have better, and more coverage, not only with total decreasing, including costs on the private side being completely eliminated, but perhaps also a decrease in government spending from what it is now.
I consider myself a fairly principled classical liberal or libertarian, and while I object on principle of the government taking such responsibilities which aren't part of its essential purposes, (courts, defense, contract enforcement, etc), I object more strongly on so much money being spent that ultimately has to be taxed, so if there's a way that healthcare could be improved while actually decreasing government expenditure, I can't have too strong, practical objections to it, and my pragmatism has to give way.

I don't give a fuck if every other country in the world does it. It's socialism and I will not allow it in my country.

>all of these countries populations put together have a similar population to the USA
>most of these countries have large homogenous populations
>most of these countries are propped up by the USA
>thinking universal healthcare works in all scenarios

wew lad

my dad was given 6 months to live without a liver transplant, he was then put on a waiting list...that was 10 years long.

he died 3 years ago yesterday.

Thanks Canada, Im a socialist now.

Hurrh muh socialism.

>Implying looking after your people through Government run healthcare provision is a bad thing.

It sure is good not having to worry about dying to a preventable disease or living with a life of Debt after some CUNT rings an ambulance for me after I get stabbed by a nigger.

Well we can't 3D print livers yet

I wish we didn't have it, it's a fucking shambles.

>healthcare is too expensive, so we'll make it less expensive by giving our money to the government so that the government can pay our doctors for us

the point is socialist healthcare is shit m8, yet i still am forced to pay for it.

Because fuck you and fuck your bills you stupid faggot.

Now fuck off.

NIGGERS
I
G
G
E
R
S

>Foster a culture of weakness and government dependency so some welfare queen can get free bypass surgery after spending all her food stamps on Pepsi and marshmallows
"No"

>I would rather pay more for a worse system than getting a system that someone called socialism

who.int/countries/en/

Here's the data
You pay more per capita and are still more likely to die early

Oh wow its almost as if they are being funneled money from some sort of large super power to help defend their nations and they have enough leftover money afford healthcare

>I payed for my health care where is my liver?
>Sorry sir we have no donor at the moment
>Well then fucking cut it out of someone

Assume we do that and reduce costs by 50%, that's still 650 billion a year. Where would the money come from? I am already taxed to the gills.
Other countries pull it off because their military spending is miniscule compared to ours. If we spent what Canada spends on defence, we could probably manage it.

you also have the best doctors and hospitals in the world, do you think this would continue to be the case if you had public healthcare?

there are plenty sob stories to be heard of people dying on waiting lists and waiting rooms in countries with le ebin universal healthcare, canada is even worse in this than europe

Because socialism only works with a small homogeneous white Scandinavian population. In a country like the US the only way you're going to have good quality care at low cost is with a market-based system.


fee.org/resources/socialized-health-care-the-communist-dream-and-the-soviet-reality/

Yes UHC is pretty good almost all of the time.

But the US right now have a 95% privatized system.
So you can't just be the government and tell the hospitals "we gonna pay now".
If you do that you eliminate insensitive to be cheap AND do good work

That's a good Idea
Stop playing world police
The last 70 years you made everything worse by interfering

The notion that small-government conservatism is a patriotic allegiance is ill-informed. Conservatism is built on a deep distrust and dislike of one's neighbors. the belief that you should be able to get ahead of other people by merit and that it sucks to be them.

I give absolutely zero shits that my countrymen can't afford healthcare. Maybe they should have tried not being fat-asses who get cancer and heart attacks every twenty minutes.

and FUCK old people too. If you're 75 and your heart stops, it's not time for a new heart, it's time for you to join your god. Fucks sake. How much of healthcare spending is spent keeping the ridiculously old alive for a few years, you think? What a waste

Fuck you I got mine

Think of how free healthcare in major American cities would work. Especially places like L.A. and New York.

Those who actually need healthcare would never actually be able to receive it, because of their degenerate populations.

Yeah, I agree, but short of a revolution, there is no way the military and defence contractors will let it happen. In any case, it's all academic. Too many hands in the jar to change anything, and they have a vital interest in keeping things as they are.

The real problem is that people aren't exactly able to just walk out when they're given a bad price on medical treatment. To compound that issue, doctors can't just throw up their hands and say "Guess we'll let everybody die" when they're given a bad price on medicine. Don't compound the issue even further by deciding that the whole system should be subject to a bureaucracy before we get to watch it fail each time. You are not going to lower costs by giving your money to someone else and asking them to pay your bills for you. Collectivized payment of a high price is best described as "national financial suicide."

I don't pay shit faggot because I'm not an unhealthy piece of human garbage forced to patronize hospitals twice a week so I can live a few years longer and hoover a couple thousand more cheeseburgers.

Let me explain further. One day I might break my leg and have to go see a doctor. I don't want to wait behind 10 hours of heroin addicts, fast food whores, alcohol chuggers, and STD-riddled prostitutes just to see a doc about my damn leg.

Look up what it's like inside a Welfare office. You're proposing that we make every hospital in America look like that

Elective surgery has gone down in price over the years. Fake tits, eye surgery, tummy tucks, etc. It also happens to have the least amount of interference from government and insurance cabals.

Funny how that works.

>Elective surgery has gone down in price over the years. Fake tits, eye surgery, tummy tucks, etc.
dont forget labiaplasty!

>Why More Teen Girls Are Getting Genital Plastic Surgery
time.com/4327126/teen-girls-implants-genital-plastic-surgery/?iid=obinsite

>Between 2014 and 2015, there was an 80% increase in the number of girls 18 and younger receiving genital plastic surgery, according to the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery.

>50%, that's still 650 billion a year.
That is several hundred billion more than our projected yearly deficit, (thankfully it's gotten so "low," unlike when it was several hundred billion more than that in the early years of Obama), meaning we could make our spending more sustainable, perhaps actually increase tax revenues because the money would be saved in the private sector would lead to greater economic activity, we could actually raise a surplus, (which would come in handy for the inevitable recession), use the money to pay off our debt, use that money for expenditure in other areas, and perhaps even have a little left over for tax cuts.
That is a very optimistic scenario, but cutting expenditure by that much would be VERY helpful.

If your country was 85% white American (i.e. of European ancestry) and wasn't full of wogs and cunts you might be a bit more open to the idea of helping each other out.

I like the NHS and I think it's great that we have it, even with its failings, but I despise the idea of my hard earned money being spent on allowing Mohamed to have 14 kids and paying for Somalians to get sewn up after stabbing each other.

To be honest though, you don't need the government to legislate for national universal healthcare. You could quite easily, if the appetite was there, form some sort of union and get millions to join, use one company or form your own and bring down costs yourself through basic economies of scale and just BTFO anybody who wanted to use your service.

costs of inflated prices designed to profit before help? youre arguing a broken system is broken and thats why it can't be fixed

But you specifically mentioned CEO pay, and it's not like I can compare this to profit of medical companies in European countries.

But the amount spent on healthcare in the US is 1.3 trillion, not 650 billion. I stated that number to illustrate the point that even if we cut all the fat, it's still too much. All of corporate taxes fund the military which is about 600 billion. Personal income taxes fund entitlements, and excise and tariffs, in theory, are supposed to fund their respective area, e.g., gasoline excise fund roads and bridges.
I don't know about you, but I cant afford any more taxes, and I'm paying $8500 a year for health insurance.

Why do you think's comparable. One is private only and the other is public competing with private. A european country would never reattach your fingers and then charge you 10 grand a finger.

you'd pay less than 8500 a year if you had universal healthcare replace insurance.

>muh freedoms
>muh socialism
>literally Hitler.
etc.

No health care for you essay.

if we stop playing world police we get "wah wah america come save us"

can't fucking win

>But the amount spent on healthcare in the US is 1.3 trillion, not 650 billion.
Right, but in your example, you suggested a 50% decrease.

>it's still too much
The cut is well beyond anything that Washington is considering, and such a cut would completely eliminate the deficit, making the US budget sustainable, unlike what it is now, where, (unless I'm mistaken), more is added to the debt every year than is added, not only to the tax base, but the economy, which is absolutely, positively not sustainable.

>but I cant afford any more taxes, and I'm paying $8500 a year for health insurance.
Well, under what you proposed, if $650 billion is cut, you might be paying less taxes, not more. That is what you were proposing when you brought this up.

Not necessarily. Obamacare is effectively, (or ideally), universal healthcare, which it's required of everyone to be on some kind of plan, yet he would probably be paying more on average if he's young enough.

You were the one who made the comparison. I was asking where the savings came in countries with a public option.

Where does this 1.3 trillion number come from? Because the sauce I found says in 2015 health care expenditures totaled 3.2 trillion.

only comparable country is germany with 80k population. But since they are mostly white its not really comparable.

Oh nm. 1.3 trillion is private healthcare premiums. system total of 3.2 trillion.

Or roughly 20,000 dollars per worker. And there's still coverage gaps, shitty copays, ridiculous deductibles etc.

Whereas Canada's works out to 12,000 per worker. 100% coverage, no copays, no deductibles.

You seem thick headed. I'm paying $8500 because I have to pay for fatbodies that wait until they get sick, then buy insurance. I am a fitness freak and so is my wife. We only go to the doctor for screenings. I choose to have that level of insurance in the event of a catastrophe and because we're not deadbeats. I can easily drop my insurance and use the money to go to Hawaii every year, but I don't. When people like me get fed up and do what the moochers are doing, there will be no one left pulling the cart.

There is no good argument against single payer.

The amount spent on healthcare is fixed at 1.3 trillion. How would you cut it in half?

Your second point makes no sense.

Your third point makes even less sense.

In order to spend 1.3 trillion dollars on healthcare for everyone, the US would need an additional 1.3 trillion in revenue. Total US spending is about 3 trillion a year.

Universal Healthcare is garbage, you might as well just accept death from curable diseases if you have universal Healthcare. Price doesn't equate to quality, America is top of the line with medical advancements, plus, the high prices are a direct reflection of the state of our economy, thus they can change.

>accuses somebody of being thick headed
>doesn't realize that he pays for uninsured anyways because if people default on medical bills the hospitals just recoup the costs by increasing the price of their services which forces insurers to charge even more money.

Cheapest way to do anything is to minimize the number of jews in between your money and the service. because every stein and berg that gets in your way is going to charge you a premium so that he can put a Jewcedes Benz in his 7 car garage.

Free market wins in some areas. But it doesn't win in health care. You can either go back to poor people dying in the streets and spreading diseases via their rotting corpses that nobody wants to pay to remove or you can get rid of all the healthcare jews and go to single payer.

Because the pyramid scheme of mental gymnastics that is required to appease
>muh free market
while maintaining the aesthetic of giving a shit about other human beings is about to collapse under it's own weight.