"When we look at people like Stalin and Hitler - they're after world domination; in some sense that's a positive motivation. Not really. It's like if you have a corvette say, and someone steals it, you can think: Well I know why they stole it! They want to have the corvette! You know it's an understandable motivation to want power. It's not necessarily an admirable one. Although sometimes power is a perfectly reasonable thing to pursuit. But I don't know why we ever assumed that those guys were after victory. Like you should never make the presupposition that everyone is out to win. Some people are out to lose, and the more people they can take with them, the better. You know when Hitler died he committed suicide in a bunker way down below in Berlin whilst Berlin was on fire, and Europe was burning. You know it's like as far as I can tell that was exactly what Hitler was after right from the beginning."
He lost BIG TIME to Sam Harris in their last debate (with Peterson arguing that God is real because fiction can be true, and Sam continually explaining fiction REFLECTS truth). Is Peterson really an idiot?
I have to wonder what your deal is. You transcribe an entire paragraph of something he said in a lecture, just so you can use it as an opportunity to say Harris won their debate?
Nathaniel Wright
Hitler being an agent of (((them))) got what (((they))) wanted: a defeated Europe ready to be indoctrinated and brain washed.
duh
Levi Edwards
There are a couple interesting ideas in there, which seem pretty clear to me.
He suggests hitler was a sort of self destructive nihilist. He may be making a sort of nietzschean point about power being a positive thing, while not necessarily being admirable. There is a lot of context to the things peterson says, you should watch his lecture series on the formation of the personality on youtube and read some of the authors he draws inspiration from for a better understanding than I can give.
Brody Miller
friendly reminder that miserable nihilist sam 'faggot' harris got absolutely decimated by peterson
Ryder Perry
He just demonstrated that he didnt understand Hitler at all
I like him, but he needs to take a long holiday somewhere warm A little R&R would do him the world of good and ready him for the fight ahead
Eli Morales
He is still a wise man but he shouldn't speak on history he doesn't know.
Connor Powell
Just listen to it man; Peterson is nonsensical. Sam just has to sit back and watch him implode, only chiming in to remind him "books aren't real bro"...
Why would Hitler want to get to a place of suicide; if Germany had already started out a broken country?
Ryan Moore
ok but this is 2real 4me.
I run into people online who do the same exact shit whenever I try to explain why god exists and their ACTUAL position is that they refuse to accept any specific definition of god. They seem to forget it's "just a word" to describe an idea that helps humans have hope for something better. To help humans let go of their troubles because in the face of everything, the daily problems aren't as big of a deal as we think.
I am really sick of atheists who refuse to consider that they MIGHT be wrong. They are the most shallow kind of "logic purity whistleblowers" i've ever seen.
Nathan Ross
go back
Brandon Watson
God and hope are two separate concepts, and you don't need God to have hope.
"You should believe in God because he brings hope"
...that's the worst argument for God I've seen. You may as well just watch hopeful TV shows, and listen to hopeful sounding music... same level of reality bro.
Maybe we're just not all so desperate for hope that we'd believe the false/invisible to be real/tangible.
Austin Bell
aaah... doesn't sound right, he has to be lvl 100 mage to be able to bring country to such heights only to somehow destroy along the way. I mean he was financed by some USA bushes or some shit, but doesn't seem realistic he planned to lose from beginning.
Andrew Martin
if you got nothing to say, at least reply "checked" to my trips
Gabriel Lopez
The guy has literally thousands and thousands of hours of talking and lecturing in his life, cut the guy some slack - he's made one comment that's a bit silly. If he was espousing stupid shit like that every day it'd be a different story.
Oliver Watson
I assume from the flag you're that same autist who kept ranting about how badly Harris BTFO Peterson in that debate.
I don't know why you're so obsessed with hating on him. I don't constantly post shit about Cenk Uygur on Sup Forums just because I don't like him, I have better things to do. So why would you obsessively go after this guy when you're aware most of Sup Forums likes him?
Sebastian Brooks
"So old raskolnikov, he thinks he's a pretty educated guy. He's pretty smart, and he is pretty smart. But he's like smart arrogant, not smart wise, because he's 21 what the hell does he know, he doesn't know anything, but he's smart. and he's contemptuous than other people, because he can be smarter than most of them, and he confuses that with knowing what's going on"
It's like he needs an out to everything he says.
Parker Harris
You just made a patently vague distinction there between something being true and "reflecting" truth in order to criticise Peterson, so no I would say he is not really an idiot.
Brody Harris
>"You should believe in God because he brings hope" >...that's the worst argument for God I've see Except the guy you're replying to wasn't making a philosophical argument for God's existence and certainly didn't say what you just quoted.
Noah Wilson
I just finished the Rise And Fall Of The Third Reich.
Hitler was out to win. He was also a balls to the wall Absolute Madman who only knew how to go all in and didn't give a fuck about the consequences. He had the aim to take the East and make Germany a Superpower, and he went at it all guns blazing. When it failed he went down with the ship.
It's like saying Caeser was committing suicide crossing the Rubicon.
He knew the risks. He thought the attempt was worth it. Hitler had always been a crazy fuck who had a single minded devotion to his goal.
Perhaps he was self destructive, but there's little evidence to support that.
Ian Baker
It's not my distinction, it's Sam Harris' as well as just humanity in general - but if you can't tell the difference between reality and a fairy tale; that's your problem.
Also, if you can't find truth reflected in words; then why the fuck am I even writing to you.
Please don't try to eat this apple. It's just the word apple, dummy.
Nathaniel Foster
He said that Raskolnikov is smart, ignorant, arrogant and contemptuous. Where is the "out" there, as you put it?
Thomas Reed
He can speak for himself if he wants to, and you can make your own arguments if you want to.
Luis Howard
>Peterson doesn't have to be right on everything that he says.
Wyatt Sullivan
This. He wasn't pulling a long term Columbine.
He was playing a high stakes game where if he lost there wasn't many outcome but suicide.
He explicitly got shat on by members of the S.A. because of his "cowardice" during the Beer Hall Putsch.
His belief was that sacrificing his life then was far too early. If he was just a suicidal fag, he would have gone swinging into gunfire along with his buddies.
Hitler had a clear motivation. His generals early on told him it was impossible, but he believed he had faced impossible odds before and overcome them.
He didn't, so he shot himself. Peterson is big on stories and myths and narratives. Hitler being inherently self destructive in some Richard III sense is good for stories, but it's not really true.
Brayden Watson
Why would you waste your time transcribing this?
Wyatt Hill
"smart arrogant, not smart wise"
Why not just say; smart, arrogant, but not wise.
This way he's kind of saying "he's smart but he's not smart" - it's just a rambling and confusing way to talk... he's like a lost grandpa how he talks.
Isaac Bailey
>Perhaps he was self destructive, but there's little evidence to support that. There's the evidence you just gave, user.
Ryder Sanchez
Why you waste time commenting?
Jack Morales
Alright fine I'll bite.
>as well as just humanity in general Argument ad populum
>if you can't tell the difference between reality and a fairy tale; that's your problem Are all uses of metaphor and modelling in science a variety of fairy tale? >if you can't find truth reflected in words; then why the fuck am I even writing to you Not addressing the point I made. The notion of truth "reflecting" is vague. What do you mean by that? How does a sentence reflect truth without being true? >Please don't try to eat this apple. It's just the word apple, dummy That's totally irrelevant. That's the distinction between signifier and signified, not between two different states of truth.
Liam Sanchez
Fuck off New Zealand.
Ryan Mitchell
stormfags and commies BTFO by based Peterson
Nathaniel Harris
He's fucking right and the Nietzschean concept of "otherworldiness" is key in understanding him. Even if they won and we lost, the political legacy of National Socialism would still be ugly and ridiculous, and Germany would have ended up something like some Francoist Spain at best. If an ideology or mode of society just fundamentally doesn't make sense, that bears consequences that can't be batted away.
Brody Wright
>This way he's kind of saying "he's smart but he's not smart" No, he categorically said Raskolnikov was smart. He just added that he was also lacking wisdom and humility.
Austin Jackson
Science doesn't use metaphor. It uses symbol and logic.... and no I'm not disputing modelling is possible... but forgetting there's a difference is idiotic. This guy explains it better:
I'm not here to help you baby boy. If you've never related to a piece of text, if you've never seen real life experience written down and felt it rang true; that's your flaw.. hell maybe it will still happen to you some day!
Then you'll be able to go "so that's what it means for real life true experiences to be reflected in fiction, or the written word"
Nicholas Taylor
Yeah, but he threw back in the concept of "smart" saying he's "smart" and "not smart"... which is.... not smart of him.
It's sloppy language from a semantic game player.
Jonathan Evans
However when they started losing the war they accelerated the jew killing instead of slowing or stopping it to funnel more resources to the war effort. They were omnicidal, in a way.
Aiden Bailey
Now we just wait for that Canuck and the two of you can make out.
Sebastian Stewart
Duh
Hitler was a Jew socialist that was working for (((them)))
He got the tough Anglo Germans to march to war and get themselves kill all whilst killing other Anglos and Europeans
Ayden Allen
when people use a metaphor they don't have to lie that it's real
Joshua Roberts
People like Peterson never bother to actually consider Hitler from Hitler's point of view. It would be radioactive for his career, so it's understandable. But it also leads them to horrible conclusions.
To understand a Nazi you must think like a Nazi.
And in that respect Hitler's actions are profoundly rational. He didn't give the speeches he gave because he secretly believed the opposite of what he was saying. He meant what he said. You know, Hitler did not form the Nazi party. Indeed, he was originally recruited by the government to spy on Nazis in beer halls because he was an unemployed veteran who couldn't get any better job. Well, he found that he agreed so much with the Nazis that he quit his job, told them that he had been informing on them to the government, and then he became the most Nazi of all of them.
So if you want to argue that Hitler was out to fail the whole time, then you have to completely ignore his story. He started from nothing. So poor that he couldn't afford even a room to rent. He was sleeping in parks. But he rose through the ranks of the Nazi party. Then he became Chancellor of Germany. Then he basically convinced 100% (or very nearly) of the people of Germany to go along with his political philosophy, which is astounding when you consider how universally reviled his politics are today. But then everybody believed them. And then he bullied and ultimately conquered half of Europe! Sure, he had a high water mark, but that's one hell of a run!
But Peterson's big problem is that he is essentially applying literary analysis to Adolf Hitler as though he is a character in a story. I mean, look at how he constructs the language to describe him. He's using fire metaphors, and sort of implying something hell-like, and you know Hitler is usually equated to Satan. He's just doing his Jungian Peterson thing, man, using extrinsic literary analysis to see patterns that aren't actually there.
Carter Martin
>I'm not here to help you baby boy If you're unwilling to carry on the discussion then just admit it, don't hide behind this petty shit >I'm not disputing modelling is possible... but forgetting there's a difference is idiotic You clearly believe there is a difference. I challenge that. So explain what the difference is. Scientists regularly model EM radiation in their experiments as particles. Is that a fairy tale? >If you've never related to a piece of text, if you've never seen real life experience written down and felt it rang true; that's your flaw Still relying on vagaries. What does it mean for something to "ring true" without being true? You ned to give an account of this if you want to you this distinction in a philosophically serious manner.
Ryan Perez
I didn't listen to the full 2nd debate, but Peterson opened up with an apology and an olive branch, and Harris did not reciprocate. As soon as I heard that I was like "Oh man, it's over. Peterson just supplicated himself, and Harris is going to eat him alive." It's like if you watch a boxing match and you see one of the boxers won't meet the other one's gaze before it starts you don't need to watch the whole thing to know who's going to win.
Camden Cox
No doubt he could have been more concise. But you're being too uncharitable to him in suggesting what he said didn't have a clear meaning.
Ryan Gonzalez
They also don't continually say "by the way guys this is just a metaphor - what I'm saying is actually false and you should not believe it". They just use metaphors.
Evan Lewis
SAM HARRIS' VISION OF THE IDEAL WORLD, THE "MORAL LANDSCAPE", SOUNDS LIKE PURE HELL. HE'S A UTOPIAN AND NOBODY CARES ABOUT HIM ANYMORE. IRRELEVANT. PETERSON WASN'T COMPETING BUT SAM TREATS EVERY CONVO LIKE A TEST OF STRENGTH
HARRIS' FANBASE IS MADE UP ENTIRELY OF AUTISTS
Liam Peterson
This.
Ryder Sanders
It's not self destructive though. He thought he would/could succeed. I mean, it's kind of a meme. You see it in stories (movies or novels) about gambling addicts etc.
But I don't think it was some sublimated desire to implode. He had chances to implode prior to his suicide. But he waited up until the last minute, and was still convinced up until the near end that he had a chance to succeed.
Dylan Peterson
Nah, Peterson did genuinely fuck up the first debate...
He immediately was trying to construct a version of "the truth" which could include the bible...
He basically pre-emptively destroyed any possibility of an organic debate by trying to say 50 thousand things before anyone said anything... it was retarded.
So apology aside, he lost the second debate organically.
His definition of the Truth is conflated with belief, and is all confused and weird because he's a bible-believing Christian. It's weird.... and being a jungian psychologist doesn't help his clarity.
Jordan Kelly
Yeh but what does it tell you about someone if they still think they have a chance to succeed in a situation where everyone else would have long ago accepted that the challenges were insurmountable, and continue to pour resources and lives into the endeavour?
Noah Barnes
even professors steal from Nolan
B R A V O R A V O
Elijah Roberts
Why are you and that Canuck always in every Peterson thread? What's your angle here?
Grayson Miller
Peterson spoke for like 80 - 90% of the podcast.. that's pretty genuine... not exactly a pissing contest.
Peterson fell down of his own accord. That's what comes from living in a fictionalized mythos then having to deal with an actual rationalist philosopher and skepetic.
Noah Gonzalez
HE DIDN'T "LOSE" SHIT
GROW UP LOSER
AUTISTS LIKE YOU ARE THE WORST TYPE OF PERSON TO HAVE A CONVERSATION WITH, YOU COULDNT JUST LISTEN TO THE CONVERSATION COULD YOU? AND LET BOTH THEIR IDEAS SEED NEW IDEAS OF YOUR OWN? IF SUCH A THING IS POSSIBLE. INSTEAD YOU GET OFF ON SEEING A RELIGIOUS MAN "DESTROYED" BY SOME MONOTONE VOICED FAGGOT
YOU HAVE BEEN HYPNOTIZED INTO WANTING SAM'S COCK.
Joshua Perry
A form of scorched earth.
Hitler had grand designs.
He also made it clear in his speeches and writings that if the Germans couldn't have it all, they were going to take everyone down with them. Hence his ignored orders to trash great cultural artifacts when it was clear they were at the end.
Like I said, what scared his generals early on was that Hitler was making all or nothing decisions. He did it when he poached land from France at the beginning and again with the Czechs. His generals weighed things up along short term, common sense, genial lines. Hitler had the belief that he could pull off anything and that everyone around him were pussies/stupid. Arrogant, narcissistic perhaps. Not really self destructive.
Sebastian Adams
In his practice and research he's dealt with utterly nihilistic people. People who just want to hurt the world, not rule it. This is something Sup Forums knows already. Like Alfred told Bruce,
>some men just want to watch the world burn
Ethan Roberts
No, I disagree with you. I think Peterson killed it in the first debate. He completely stumped Harris, who is a very brilliant guy, but I think Peterson proved himself more intelligent that time by challenging underlying assumptions that Harris had never considered before. And it showed that Harris doesn't know what to do when he's hit with unfamiliar ideas. He's very much not quick on his feet, so to speak. If he did better in the second debate, a large part of why is probably that he sat around and thought about Peterson's arguments for a while, and how to tear them open.
But I will agree with you that Peterson's truth definition is batshit insane. Or at least quite different from what everyone else in the world thinks of when discussing truth. Which is disgusting. Because that's the same thing the SJWs do when they talk about "re-defining" words like racism to mean things they don't the hell mean, then when they start talking to you they say ridiculous things because they're based on extraordinary definitions.
Wyatt Lopez
He's the OP.
Cooper Walker
I think the fact that Hitler DID lie (especially to the Nazis) demonstrated that he wasn't self destructive. When he had to pull the S.A. in, because he was trying to sell the public and bankers on a kindler, gentler version, he knew he was lying, but he knew it was necessary to reach his ends.
Henry Nguyen
Could it possible be that Peterson doesn't know shit about hitler? No, there must be some other explanation
Thomas Morris
Peterson is gaining like 1k subs /day. he will outclass all the "big" political jewtubers in only a short time. Furthermore he has probably one of the highest patreon shekels/ subs of any political jewtubers. if we were in middle earth this guy would be gandalf
Julian Fisher
I think it was just his way of arguing for an expanded notion of tacit truth alongside explicit truth. If someone explicitly says "Walking into the gorge will kill me", we can say they have true beliefs about the gorge. If someone else however says things but in a language we can't understand, but in his behaviour always manages when near the gorge to not walk into it, we can also say with confidence that they know not to walk into the gorge. But this truth is tacit in their behaviour, not explicit in their statements. Peterson I think is trying to expand out that understanding of truth to include certain language games, such as religion.
Daniel Powell
Wow what a faggot. Is he a jew?
Hitler tried to make germany great again, after the jews ruined it.
Gabriel Miller
PETERSON'S IDEA OF TRUTH MAKES MOST SENSE IF YOU'VE TRIPPED ON A PSYCHEDELIC
Cameron Howard
I'll rephrase the question then, because that's even worse.
Why is this user and the Canuck so hell-bent on forcing an opinion change for a man who is genuinely liked on Sup Forums? In what is quite easily the clumsiest form of astro-turfing I have ever seen.
Owen Hill
ralf stegner will #MGGA
Dominic Morris
That they are stubborn? Arrogant? Delusional?
All things Hitler was accused of by those who knew him from the beginning.
The thing is, they were all things leveled at people like Alexander The Great too.
And also people who end up getting destroyed as soon as they start on an impossible task.
Nolan Hughes
The dude has studied totalitarianism and authoritarianism for decades. Of course he fucking knows who Hitler is. He also lives in Canada, and if IIRC they have genocide denial laws.
Aiden Allen
Without hitler, Germany and the world would be in much worse shape than today. Hitler delivered a huge blow to the Jews. Without him there wouldn't be any white people left today
Christian Price
Where should I get started with him?
I just finished the first lecture of his '16 Maps of Meaning.
Leo Baker
Yeh but then you look into exactly what Hitler did and where he ended up. I think there is a case for him having a latent destructiveness.
Jackson Sanchez
Nazis had a lot of things right in terms of how they view the world, but when I learned that Hitler said "Germans deserve to go extinct for losing" I realized he's a total piece of shit who didn't care about Germany at all. He wanted destruction and pain.
Jaxon Rogers
nice
Connor Baker
huh. I don;t get it, so because Hitler lost he intended to lose? or what? Is this guy just like the Deepak Chopra of Sup Forums because I keep seeing him
Jackson Carter
Do you think that's what they're doing? Because I don't think they can ever be effective at that.
See, Sup Forums likes JB Peterson because he represents values that Sup Forums very much believes.
He is in conflict with transvestites, and Sup Forums HATES transvestites.
He is unapologetically a white male in a university, and Sup Forums is very sensitive to the plight of white males especially in universities.
He is a fierce believer in free speech, and Sup Forums is truly the last bastion of free speech anywhere.
Plus he's quite smart, although his ideas are batshit insane. But anyway, for those reasons Sup Forums will always back him, so it's useless to try to shill Sup Forums to try to get them to think the opposite.
On the other hand, Sup Forums thrives on conflict.
So by starting threads and discussions about the opposite of Sup Forums values, you actually generate the support of those values. You bait them out, so to speak. This happens every single day in nearly every single thread, from gun control to the cuck spammer.
Ayden Bell
>Hitler tried to make germany great again
Fucked it up then didn't he
Jayden Turner
>you know >like I filter out anything people say when they talk like some airheaded valley girl.
Parker Ross
Hitler always gives me a warm fuzzy feeling, like Mr. Bean.
Jace Green
Yeah, we all know who hitler is. Don't you remember reading about how evil he is in school? Don't you remember all those years of learning about the holocaust?
Are you new here?
Michael Young
And I will point out as well that he clearly doesn't just employ his own weird pragmatist version of truth. He was clearly in the debate also able to utilitse the common notion of linguistic truth when discussing other topics with Harris. So it's not that he was inorganically shutting down the debate by insisting on speaking a different language to Harris, where only his views can be articulated. He was trying to make a case for redefining truth specifically with respect to the domain of the language game of religion, but within the meta-language of the debate he was having with Harris.
Carter Morris
...
Jordan Russell
>"Germans deserve to go extinct for losing"
>implying he didn't already know that germany will be the most cucked country in the world soon >implying he didn't know that the jews will take over germany after the war is lost Germans will be extinct in a few hundred years, and we deserve it.
Christopher Lewis
Hitler wanted a thousand year reich, sure, but he was also a deeply spiteful man, and that was part of why he failed. There were at least two occasions when he allowed his desire to punish people to interfere with good strategy. One was the "blitz", wherein he ordered the bombing of civilization targets in retaliation for the British bombing of Berlin. Ironically, this took resources away from the bombing of British airfields and allowed the RAF, which was only weeks from collapse, to recover. The second was Operation Punishment, a major assault on the Balkans in response to a Serbian coup in Yugoslavia which angered Hitler. This operation was unnecessary, and it critically delayed operations on the Eastern Front.
Camden Stewart
Be sure we will rule over Europe.
Ethan Adams
START A FAMILY. RAISE YOUR CHILDREN RIGHT AND WITH CULTURE. DONT BE A REAL PUSSY.
Colton Bailey
The ones who fucked it up were countries like america and great britain.
Owen Lee
That's really adorable. Uncle Adolf was great. We truly fought on the wrong side.
Levi Long
Hmm. I must be a bit sleepy. Maybe I should take a xanax
>Hitler committed suicide >Was his goal since he started
What would you do if you know you have lost and you have only two options: 1. Kill yourself 2. Get butt fucked by every enemy and then tortured for the rest of your live
And if this person where right: Why didn't he just shoot himself on day 1. Why wait?
The only reason why Hitler wanted to be the Führer: He wasn't accepted in art school. I'm not even kidding. If you won't get accepted for something you wanted so much, you say "fuck it, nobody tells me that I'm a nothing. I will show them how great I am.".
Ryder Morris
OP sort yourself the fuck out
Juan Thompson
You know that's interesting. Maybe he's tossing in a throwaway line about how much he hates Hitler to give himself cover. He's proving to the Jews that he's not off the reservation. He hates the things they hate too.
Austin Anderson
You didn't listen. You just heard what you wanted to hear
Jaxon Scott
this
James Butler
skip to 34:45 in the video. he knows about the jews.
