Is gender a social construct, Sup Forums? If it is a social construct, then should people be allowed to choose their own gender? Or is it the case that gender is determined independently of what the people in any given society think? Interested to see what you think.

Just accept what you've got and stop overthinking it. It's a self-indulgent waste of brainpower.

It's a social construct in terms of what you wear or your job profession. Men have certain clothes and women have certain clothes constructed by society. You also don't see a lot of women working in construction or mining and it's regarded as a male job, that's another example of a social construct.

You can't choose your gender/sex though, that's bullshit tumblr shit.

Gender was a major evolutionary break through, to believe you're beyond it is as much hubris as believing you're beyond eating the food that allowed enough caloric energy for your head to be as big as it is.

Qt traps are fine if they're qt, but they're sterile for a reason.

Gender is a synonym for sex. It is a biological construct

It's the construct of a mad scientist who liked experimenting on children.

i don't want to remember six million different pronouns in order to not offend anyone fuck off get bent pop a knot drop dead

Hey guys,did you know that fingers are made up and you can actually choose how many you have or don't have before birth because thumbs are actually phallic inventions made up by sexist males in the womb to mock women who naturally have skinnier pinkies as it's a sign of naturally higher fetal intelligence and moral maturity preeclampsia when all fetuses (who start out female) are exposed to atmospheric oxygen that has been pumped full of testosterone by years of male ejaculate being released in micro-ionosphere-aggressions sexnaturally assaults the physical mental makeup of her body and forces thumbs through the skin.

It's either a social construct, or they're born that way. It can't be both. I call bullshit.

Also, toes are all penises.

I think human brains are wired to distinguish between what we call masculine traits and what we call feminine traits. Dominance, assertiveness, coldness are all grouped together; and submission, obedience, and warmth are all grouped together, for example. It doesn't matter what you label these things – the human brain operates in these two fundamental modes, and it colours the way we function in the world and the way structure our societies. This distinction enters into everything we do and makes itself known as much as possible. This is why you have girl colours and boy colours. There's nothing inherently masculine or feminine about the colours themselves, but the brain will come to arbitrarily think of one as feminine and one as masculine because it has to because that's the way it works. It's inescapable. We even look at cables you plug into computers in masculine/feminine terms. It doesn't matter if you're a westerner or in one of those weird tribes where women take on the role of men – the brain distinguishes between masculine and feminine and assigns the corresponding values to men or women. I think dick people are better suited to what is perceived as masculine because of our biological make-up, and that vagina people are better suited to feminine because of their biological make-up. I disagree with changing genders because it represents an erosion of culture and tradition we've stuck to for hundreds of years which has historically served us very well.

its that simple

》far left

you don't understand how evolution works at all

why is pol so fucking full of retards who don't understand basic sex and biology?

both genders and sex are a social construct. Real biology is dimoprhic only because that dimorphism works, and real biology is not binary but works on mutations, which applies to ever fascet, not just sex, so you will get people who do not fit into the nice pretty line op drew. this is normal because for evolutiont to occur, you need mutations to advance, and gay people are not an evolutionary dead end, because you don't need to reproduce yourself in order to be reproduced, Otherwise ants would be fucking extinct.

pronoun arguements are retarded. if the left had our shit together we'd all back they/them as a universal pronoun since it already basically is one. but no, we have to go special snowflake.

Read on:
- Frankfurt School
- Critical Theory
- Erich Fromm

Aside from people with severe hormonal desiese and hermafrodites, choosing ones gender does not apply.

I personally am for homosexuality and other deviant (non pedo) behaviors to be decriminalised, but not praised everywhere on the media.

There is only 1 gender
Women are objects

this is were you went full retarded. blue is a cold color and pink is warm. thats exactly why pink used to be the color for boys, because it reflected blood, vitality, and energy. red is an aggressive color and pink is a soft version of it.

The idea is that gender being a social construct doesn't actually matter at all if it is.

Let's say gender is static. Your gender is male/female and hence you're a man/woman. This is how it should be. Trans people will be trans-man etc etc. Not some bi-gender anti-sexual homoeroticist.

Why doesn't fluidity with gender work socially?
If someone says: " I am fluid. My gender changes." That let's everyone say that. If we accept that, then the concept of gender will be fluid and dynamic. People keep coming up with new gender stoo. "Anti-girl", like being a girl but nothing thinking like a stereotypical girl or something (this is shit retarded. You're just an individual of the female gender).

The fact that you can invent terms, makes me able to create my own gender and change to a new one at will, and shitlord about, shaming people for miss-labeling me. If everyone can choose a gender, then no one has a gender. Gender is used to label, but if everyone labels their own gender after themselves, then they're just being themselves. It's a worthless thing to have since it adds no value to any convo. The only reason we have a static man/woman is because it helps us easily differentiate. Add 1500 new ones and no one will be able to.

are you sure men working in construction is entirely a social construct? Do you not think it's possible that, considering men and women have brains wired differently, that they are predisposed biologically to prefer different kinds of jobs?

I'm not saying that "men go into construction is chosen biologically". But women may also be predetermined to be the primary carer of children. From an evolutionary point of view that makes sense. In other animal species there are gender divides in terms of who raises children and who gets food as well.

Just something to think about.

>Let's say gender is static. Your gender is male/female and hence you're a man/woman. This is how it should be. Trans people will be trans-man etc etc. Not some bi-gender anti-sexual homoeroticist.
This is going to offend your retarded sensibilities and personally even I think of it as a bit of a hard sell, but categorically gender of variances can be expressed in a way that retains its categorical impact while allowing for subcategories to catch people who fell out of the perfect evolutionary sexual dimorphism.

Male, Female
Both, Neither.

These categories are simple, cover everything, and wouldn't ever need to be changed in the future to accomidate some retarded notion of snowflakes.

Gender is a social construct

People can choose whatever gender they want. If a guy considers himself a girl, that's his business.

Other people are under no moral obligation to "acknowledge" their gender. Thinking you are a woman or doing more atypical feminine things as a man does not make you a woman. Trying to conflate gender with sex is fucking retarded.

So I'm willing to accept "gender" as a thing if you want to define it as "what you consider yourself". It just makes zero sense to expect others to acknowledge this self identification when it holds no physical or biological merit.

you are honestly actually right, but when most talk of gender being a social construct comes bout, they are talking about enforced social expectations and advertisement.

>schizophrenia is a social construct

the most you can argue is it provides no social merit. gender granularity is supported by the literature, theyre the crumbs from a perfectly normal cookie but they exist and they aren't an abberation but evidence of a natural process that is the fundamental driving force of life on earth.

Well, fair enough. I didn't think too much about the colours thing. I was just trying to come up with an example of how the brain thinks in binary terms on the fly. i.e. if 2 things existed with absolutely no inherent masculine or feminine traits (if that were even possible), people would still come to think of one as masculine over time and one as feminine because that's how it works.

All of what they call a social construct about gender came about because of the intrinsic qualities of each sex

You'd have to be really specific what isn't female or male though. At what point is someone allowed to say "I am neither"?

If anyone can say it out of the blue, then we're back to social justice again and people will be snowflakes for no gain at all. If a girl feels like a man, and she cannot because she's never been a man then why not just see her as a woman who is more appealed by the life of men than life of women.

Logically it covers all the possibilities but it's just a silly idea that's unnecessary.

Gender is biogical. There are only two genders, male and female

Gender roles are social constructs, but they are based on physical gender. They are not simply fabricated on nothing.

Gender identity, like sex is also biological. Gender dysphoria is caused when your innate gender identity does not match your biological gender.

There are two kinds of trannies: those who are biologically predisposed to identifying as the opposite sex, and pretenders hopping on the liberal bandwagon who make no attempt to represent themselves as the opposite sex or who represent themselves as imaginary other genders

T. Mtf tranny

It's both, a social construct and a biological preference, (that usually leads to the social construct, but not always)

I'm talking about what this guy said:

Social constructs regarding gender exist, but not in the way it's commonly attributed regarding choosing your gender/sex (you can't). They exist in the sense that, society has deemed that certain things like professions, clothing, etc; are designated for Males and for Females; for example, construction work tends to be attracted to and occupied for males, whereas hairstyling/fashion for females.

Another example: Society expects/constructs men don't wear tights, whereas women do (it used to be the other way around in the 1800s but social constructs changed that, so now if you're a man wearing tights you'll be laughed at, whereas in the 1800s you could wear them and no one would blink an eye since it was socially acceptable for men to do so).


Gender is a social concept.
Sex is biological.
Still only two of both.

you aren't wrong. this is why they say gender is a social construct despite stragglers that exist in biology here it's because biologically speaking, we evolve to catergorize things and those categorizations are not always reflecting reality. yes this goes both ways for the special snowflakes among the left, but gender is a social construct.

>You'd have to be really specific what isn't female or male though. At what point is someone allowed to say "I am neither"?
granular specificity means that any categorical decision you make will oust men and women from their current gender and sex despite being what you call real men and women. for instance, you can use chromosomes, but real women exist who are born with a y chromosome, theyre nearcompletely insensitive to androgynes.

Same for penis and vagina, scaring, cancer, and other things can cause you to not have what others would think of as functional genetalia, are you then not a male or female?

The only way this really works is just to let everyone pick, because having an arbitrary decision is simply inefficient.

>then we're back to social justice again and people will be snowflakes for no gain at all.
these are general categories, so no, there would be no room for special snowflakes.

> If a girl feels like a man, and she cannot because she's never been a man then why not just see her as a woman who is more appealed by the life of men than life of women.
if we surmise that its possible to feel like a man at all and have that basis be contributed to by biology and not society, by what scientific basis do you surmise that it is not possible for men and women to feel like they are the opposite sex?

>gender rolls

I'm aware of the things you are saying and I am confused why you are acting like that wasn't exactly what I was refering to.


No, it has a well established biological basis, which is ignored, obviously.

Yeah I read that shitty ass reply already.
Didn't agree with it so I posted my views on said topic.

It is a social construct and difficult to explain to right-winged retards because they are incapable of putting themselves in the shoes of someone else, or reading anything from places of study. That being said, I really believe anything beyond "man, woman," or "neither" is utterly bullshit. There are plenty of psychological, sociological and in some cases neuropsychological and physical reasons why someone might not subscribe to their "given."

Furthermore it used to discredit women; I'm not Hillary shill but I distinctly recall people asserting that she "would be too emotional" to run the country, even though she is likely menopausal and there are several other female leaders that have higher approval ratings (significantly higher than this orange guy's, anyway.)

Gender is a grammatical category (masculine, feminine, common neuter in natural gender languages)

Sex is a biological attribute of mammals and other organisms (male, female).


Posts (and harassment like them) such as these do lead to higher suicide rates in trans people. And then the very same people egging them on to commit suicide espouse that they are all obviously mentally ill because they are killing themselves.

and its scientifically wrong. this is science, you don't get to go "lol I disagree, and this si murica so you have to give my shitty creationist ideas half time in science classrooms"

Sex is a biological reality. Gender is gender stereotypes.
A man with long hair and a dress is still a man. A super butch bull dyke is still a woman.

its pretty ironic how little most of the right knows about psychology.

Shit is like quantum mechanics, you can't measure it without changing it.

There is no such thing as human gender. Gender is for concepts, words, abstractions, not people. People have sexes, not genders. The whole fucking thing is a postmodernist ruse. Anyone who uses "gender" in reference to people is drinking the kool aid. Sadly, that's most people.

How's that for "gender non-conforming," femicunts?

Back to (((Tumblr))) Newfag.

What are you talking about, user? Psychology and sociology are both facets of the liberal jew lizard people agenda. Any information that has ever come from an institution of learning is designed to trick you into becoming a homosexual female bodybuilding pro-choicer. How can I trust information that isn't from Breitbart News or a random shitlord on Sup Forums?

I love it when nu-Sup Forums calls me a newfag. Sorry I'm not part of your little reddit cult, you mindless sheep.

XX and XY
nothing more
if you don't like the way you were born

>its pretty ironic how little most of the right knows about psychology

maybe that's because the left has hijacked it and destroyed it over the last couple decades

Technically, gender used to mean the same thing as sex, but was later changed into a more politically correct term by liberals. The only instance in where you do not feel like your biological sex is when you have a mental disorder, which is extremely rare in the general population. Simple as that.

>Being this delusional

this shitty thread again

Well then again, in an estimate up to 90% of people who commit suicide are mentally ill. Possibly even more.

>mental disorder
not only is this categorically not true anymore, Even if we surmise it is(as i personally agree to a limited extent) under what basis do you suggest we not treat that illness in the way that science has shown is the most effective, to the constant buttpain of the rightwing political party?

>what are chromosomes?

I think it is, and it's harmful and redundant. This isn't ignoring the very basic fundamental differences between the *sexes*, just implying that gender "roles" don't have to be sex-exclusive and that there's nothing good that can come from polarizing the differences.

Getting real tired of this shit. Vaguely referring to studies without immediately providing titles, dates of publication, authors, literature reviews, explanations for why we should accept your chosen study over those drawing different conclusions etc. is hypocrisy. Science is a way of being, not a debate tactic. "I won't accept any argument lacking scientific evidence but I will expect others to accept my own arguments without proof just because I said there is some proof somewhere" is intellectually dishonest. Appealing to unnamed studies is your attempt to give your post some authority and to set it apart from others, but until you actually provide sources, you're just doing the same thing everyone else is doing, and thus have no business calling others out. Put simply, if you really were so science-minded, you would have built your argument atop a rock-solid foundation of papers and essays from the get-go, instead of arrogantly asserting your superiority while hiding away the studies that make you think you're superior so that they can't be attacked or discussed.

No it isn't and it can be proven. In fact there was a case that proves it too. I don't have the details on me atm (buried in a private archive), but there was a case were a male child was born with mutilated genitals. So the parents and the doctors went ahead and decided to reconstructive surgery to give them a vagina. The was raised female, grew up their entire life believing they were born female, give hormones and hormone blockers so they would develop as female. They were registered female, went to school as female etc etc. Eventually though they rejected their femininity and, thinking they were man trapped in a women's body, decided to transition to male, only to discover that they were actually male from start. Needless to say things went downhill from there.

Point is that it clearly is not social. Despite never knowing they were male, never being treated as a male, and never developing as a male, this person still knew and felt on some level that they were male.

It is biological. Anyone who is transgender is at best afflicted with a birth defect or at worse a severe mental and psychological problem.

Gender isn't a social construct.

You got a penis? You're a man

You got a vagina? You're a woman

You got some sort of hybrid birth defect? You're an anomaly.

>One gender: male
>One object: Female
Everything else is autism

Female Liberty is a social construct. If not for men developing different technologies to assist with labour and open up different fields to women they would remain as a supplement to men.

I have a dishwasher so I no longer need the support of a woman to wash my dishes. I have a dryer so I no longer need a women to dry my clothes. We have multiple things which reduce labour and as such removes women from previous roles or allows them to adopt new ones.

Gender roles are social constructs, yes. The thing is that sex is not, and gender roles aren't anywhere near as restrictive as idiotic leftists believe.

>gender roles aren't anywhere near as restrictive

I mean that all depends on where you live, who you live with, etc. Some of us are fortunate enough to live somewhere where people mostly don't give a shit.

Social constructs are a social construct.

Biological sex is set during development, gender identity tends to conform to biological sex, unless the individual has been exposed to abnormal levels of the wrong hormones. There are certainly social aspects of gender identity, but what I see is that it follows a baseline set by biological sex and can only be socialized to deviate so much before the individuals behaviors become abnormal, unhealthy, or in some way detrimental to their life.

That aside, people should in general be allowed to do as they please so long as their actions do not directly harm others, if someone wants to identify as a bi-poly-genderfluid otherkinsexual, that's their choice, it will be my choice to avoid that person like the plague and have nothing to do with them.

what an insight! but it doesn't help you finding out whether gender has socially constructed components or not

I want to own a business only so I can simply label my bathrooms with "XX" and "XY".

Where are you getting your information from? Please tell me you're shitposting.

Yes it is a mental disorder called gender dysphoria, which is an extremely rare disorder within the general population. With all means, when is not feeling the biological sex you were born as considered normal, with the exception of mutations that are even rarer than gender dysphoria? You must be referring to transvestites, which is technically a fetish or in some cases an illness.

When did I propose anything about a solution to treat transgenders. I did not mention any political alignment nor any tatics to deal with the issue. I just made a statement about sex being the same as gender back before the politically correct agenda and that transgendered individuals are mentally ill. Stop inputing words into my sentences.

By the way, the most effective way is the way it is, because it is new, and regarded as such because of the results compared to others. There still hasn't been enough research since the hormone injection and reassignment surgery is still a new thing, and we still are observing the effects over time with it. In my opinion, I wouldn't even call it the effective since, transgenders still know that they are not really the gender they desire to be which creates this deluded mentally bringing it harder on them when people realize they are transgendered. The mental illness and the deluded behavior is the cause of their high suicide rates. So in fact, this effective option is more so going away from the problem instead of fixing it.

Its definitely a social comstruct except for ur genitals ok

>Where are you getting your information from? Please tell me you're shitposting.
I'm, not?
>durr what did I say I didn't say it doesn't work
>goes on to directly imply it doesnt work

The reason I disagree with your retarded view of a mental disorder is only because mental disorders are finicky things and generally only relate to our society and the way we want it to function, not actual cold blooded science.

Mental disorders can end up being good things for a society, or represent a benefit to the person who has them, or vice versa, cross and mix between. the way evolution actually works is that everything is a disadvantage until it isn't and is a boon until it isn;t.

you are a based rightwinger and do your people credit where others do folly

>giving further proof that they are mentally ill with this point.

while you are correct in some senses, what me and that faggot are refering to are the basic fundamentals of biology. sure if anyone wants to argue the particulars we wont have much to show, but the reality is most of the right wing group you belong to couldnt give two shits about the particulars, they have this inane belief that nature conforms to their preconceptions and categories, when this is demonstrably false and every published study on evolution works to disprove the notion. go look up any study you want of ants or any other animal. Variation over time, mutations, and natural selection, all make the facts rock solid when it comes to the question of whether or not sex and gender are binary. they aren't because if they were, evolution would never work. Whether or not you want to argue to the extent of what a transgenderd person's feelings matches or doesnt match what you might expect a female mind to, or any other minute point, doesn't touch the core arguement of the right is that transgender and granular sex and gender identity is wrong because it's unnatural and often results in sterility or non reproduction of the person afflicted, which in terms of reflecting the reality of life and biology is demonstrably false. If you want a paper on it, I suggest you go real all of the ones on mutation, evolution, natural selection, and biological niches. because this stuff is provably correct and anyone that uses the arguements mentioned to discredit gender dysphoria or homosexuality or push gender and sex being binary are demonstrably wrong.

Gender is another word for sex. When did the retards think any different?

True redpill:

Gender has real effects, but most of them are made up.

Real effects? Men are more aggressive and stronger on average, that's just biology.

Women bond more with children (oxytocin from breast feeding, etc.) and have their own biological constraints.

Brains are mostly similar, but obviously subtly different.


Most societal roles don't require that. Women can (if they work hard, just like men) be top tier programmers or scientists. If you live in a backwards country that doesn't allow women to try, you miss out on some potential resources for your nation.

Likewise, idiots who are like "X isn't manly fag" with cooking, nursing, whatever... they are playing themselves. Being "manly" is doing a job that needs doing. Male nurses deal with tough shit. Being a good cook is a great skill. Being good with children helps improve your nation. Hell, start a clothing design place, who am I to deny it if you have talent.

You just don't have to wear a feather boa and put on a lisp to do it, or act like a weakling (not even a gay snipe, just don't be pathetic in the face of challenges or society in general)

Holy shit btfo


Society is a social construct.
Gender is a scientific term for determining sex.
Like anything in science there is a small uncontrolled variable, in this case Hermaphrodites. Everyone else falls into a binary male or female.
>but but muh 1k+ genders
Those are not objective and have no basis, they are made in society. We have already stated that Society is a social construct. Therefore there is no facts to back up having more then 2 genders.

I identify as an attack helicopter. Fuck off, heliphobes.

Isn't it the other way around?

I wasn't arguing that any one thing is right or wrong. In the post you're replying to, I was calling out this stupid trend where people put forward an argument and claim they're right because studies say so, without actually posting the studies. You're doing exactly the same thing the other guy did. "Go look it up" is not an argument and it does not give your post any more weight or credence until you provide the sources.

But in the statement before that, I said nothing about a proposal to what we should do with them. So I have no idea where you are getting that from. Are you perhaps lying your insecurities on me?

But mental illnesses do have a scientific basis? What are you talking about? That's how they are generally deciphered, through scientific means. I'm really confused of what your stating. Are you implying that society does not view mental disorders in a positive light and tries to heal or fix
the issue? Of course people would do that since mental disorders are abnormal in the first place, with many of them causing people not to function properly. Just look at the aforementioned gender dysphoria. It causes confusion to both the person who has it and the people around them. Not fitting in with your biological body is certainly not a positive thing, it can cause detrimental effects (depression, suicide disillusionment) to the person which is why society tries to fix it. Mental illness is simply abnormal behavior which is frequently unhealthy.

I know mental disorders can be good things at times. The people who have mental disorders are the ones most likely to make changes to society. But at the same time, mental disorders are a burden that causes people not to function properly on a daily basis. A mental illness is not simply a disadvantage turned into an advantage. It can be considered in some cases to be a disadvantage, with some advantages like autism and adhd.

By, the way, since you wanted my opinion so bad, I merely stated it is the most effective solution presently as a fact, but since it is new and the results are still being recorded, I stated my opinion on it not being totally effective since suicide rates are still high among the transgendered population. Sorry if I worded it a little weirdly.

It's when you're born and you roll a d2 (a bathroom tile), then depending on how it lands you're either male or female. Simple biology.

Gender is not a social construct. If you even question this, you've been successfully brainwashed.