Why are liberals, athiests, agnostics, and non Christians so against the idea of FREE WILL

...

Other urls found in this thread:

jesusneverexisted.com/
io9.gizmodo.com/why-randomness-may-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-658318167

I was told my whole life I had to believe a certain way and act a certain way. Growing up in christianity was anything but "free"

Without the Christian God it is impossible to be free

I don't know its really ironic because if thy think that acions are pre determined then that means it was determined by genetics or the environment, but then you have to think okay how did the environment get this way, oh yeah because of the people who inhabit it. Eventually if you can argue with them long enough you can convince them of race realism

>atheists
>Against free will
That's literally impossible, the "atheists" that you are talking about are Jew cultists not atheists

They think that with enough laws society will become a utopian safe space for all. It's foolish and completely ignorant of history but that appears to be the idea.

They are socially retarded and are into any gaslighting, anglo offers them.

The fuck are you talking about?

That bullshit and you know it
Being religous is literally intellectual serfdom

The arrangement of our universe, and the complexity of our laws of physics and position in the galaxy that allows life to thrive, it is all so perfectly fine tuned that it is mathematically impossible to have happened by chance. To say that life developed complex systems that respond to different types of stimuli that previously couldn't even be detected by the organism just by random evolution over time is almost asinine. Genetic coding in our DNA is so impressive that there is no way that we developed organs that pick up light such as our eyes and organ systems that work together such as the nervous or digestive systems simply by chance. That's like slamming on your keyboard billions of times until you eventually get a working operating system. Open up command shell on your computer, type in a bunch of random commands in a line and hit enter. No syntax error? Unlikely but if not save that line of code. Now do the same thing repeatedly and when you receive a syntax error, go back one line and try random commands again. Do this billions of times and come back to me when you have an operating system with a full web browser and battlefield 4 on 60 fps. That is genetic coding.

Because if free will exists, minorities are responsible for their behavior. And that means they can't be shitlib voter pets anymore.

"Free will" is a necessary illusion. You are completely the result of physical processes. Everything you do or think is just a bunch of atoms or whatever the fuck interacting with each other. We only entertain the notion of free will because it makes things easier.

>Dude you believe in a flying spaghetti fairy that created the universe what are you retarded?

>THEORISTS SAY UNIVERSE IS LIKELY A SIMULATION
>WE WUZ CREATED AND SHIEEET

Atheists just hate authority.

>agnostics

Not really.

Check'd and kek'd

>it is all so perfectly fine tuned that it is mathematically impossible to have happened by chance.

[citation needed]

Shitty pasta/10

I remember this pasta

Because when you no longer have to take responsibility for your actions, being a total loser isn't your fault.

Free Will is impossible for a number of reasons.
The idea of a Free Will which is not bound by causality is absurd. Even if the will is free from being affected by external things, it still must be constrained by its own nature. Causality is unavoidable.

My reply is a result of your statement your response will be a result of mine

Checkmate

Because they have to be.

Without the existence of some kind of transcendent mind, whether you call it God or what have you, you are left to believe in materialism. Generally speaking. I'm sure there are some fringe speculations/non-sense ideologies. But in general, you can't really reconcile materialism/naturalism with free will. Because all your reactions, responses and feelings are determined.

So they'd rather uphold their belief in determinism than admit that God exists. Seems to just be stubbornness.

You misunderstand. OP is talking about even beyond that. What that means is that your parents/surroundings weren't chemically BOUND to raise you in a Christian environment. But they had the free will to. Just like you had to free will to give them the finger and run away or die or something. But you didn't. Just because you restricted yourself and went along with it doesn't mean you didn't have the choice.

And still never been refuted

>[citation needed]

[citation needed]

Shitty unwillingness to consider the post/10

Free Will might be necessary as a noble lie to teach the degenerates self-responsibility.

Because free will requires magical thinking

Digits confirm.

Praise Kek.

Free will implies randomness
Randomness implies non-deterministic physical laws

Non-determinism is incompatible with reality

It's been refuted hundreds of times but you lot never pay attention

You know how Christians believe atheists will eventually break down in a dark time in their lives and find Jesus?

Atheists have the same, except instead of a dark time, it's after you get a college education

The entire argument starts off as an axiom by spurting out of your ass that the creation of the universe through a system other than a skydaddy is mathematically impossible, when you state it you have to back it up first.

Also

>2017
>cucktianity

jesusneverexisted.org

I'm deistic and i believe in free will. Organized religion isn't free will

Heightened subscription to determinism is just a way to write off personal failure just as progressive socialism is just a way to write off the personal failures of people who are "oppressed."

oops

jesusneverexisted.com/

If you program a robot and you know everything that robot will do, does that robot have free will?

>Waah my parents made me follow rules :( :( :(

Because modern Westerners aka liberal atheists see the universe as made up of matter and laws that follows a scientific formula, which if it could be known could predict and explain every action, past, present and future, of every living thing including humans.

1. All statements are true or false. (by law of excluded middle)
2. Statements about the future are either true or false. (by 1)
3. If a statement about the future is true, then it must happen. (self-explanatory)
4. If a statement about the future is false, then it must not happen. (See 3)
5. The future is predetermined. (by 3 and 4)
6. If the future is predetermined, then Free Will is impossible. (Self-explanatory)

you can't make conclusory statements about a future that doesn't exist. They would have to be in the present for you to do that. 3/4 are erroneous.

Because no one in their right mind chooses their side. So, since they are correct in their own eyes, everyone else must be wrong and forced to believe their way. They're no different than the Inquisitors hundreds of years ago the anti-christian folks love to reference.

Agnostics are not against free will. Agnostics are master race. I embrace Christians, Hindus, Buddhists, and other enlightened religions. I hate atheists like Krauss, Neil Tyson, Bill Nye, Bill Maher, Richard Dawkins (although he is slightly based), etc.

If you aren't Christian, then you are the problem

>lol I'm not like athiests...I'm an agnostic, and that means I'm so smart and enlightened

The future is defined by the present. We are constantly looking over the edge of time in a perpetual feedback loop of spirit reflected off reality and reality reflected off spirit.

Because God doesn't play dice.
>inb4 quantum mechanics
Right, but until every mistery of physics is unveiled then we can't say for sure there's nothing else.
>inb4 hidden variable theory is BS
Not sure about that..

Faggot... Looking back I wish my parents were religious.

>muh favorite kike stories book series

I think people like Sam Harris just like to hear themselves talk. They like to play at being a god telling all the plebs what dumb and evil saps they were for being raised in their family's respective faith tradition. They're like that person who should know better that goes around popping balloons with their pen at a child's birthday party. They have a sadistic streak in them. They are also usually Anti-christian, and not merely agnostic. They care more about disparaging Christianity--clearly--than they do about the topic of atheism itself...

Atheism is a bizarre knowledge claim regarding the existence vel non of a deity--involving facts that we as humans are barred from accessing *in principal.*

Yes, the argument is sloppy.
But, then, how do you evaluate statements which describe the future? Like take the statement "Tomorrow I will eat breakfast". By the law of excluded middle it must be true or false, and so it must happen or must not happen.
I think that if the law of excluded middle i taken its logical conclusion, it follows that the future is predetermined.

>free will implies randomness

What? How does that make sense

>non-determinism is incompatible with reality

That's not what quantum physics says

Free will is incoherent but your reasoning here is confused

>>muh favorite kike stories book series
>Agnostics are master race. I embrace Christians

DAILY REMINDER THAT AGNOSTICS ARE WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING

AGNOSTICS ARE ATHIESTS

Am I missing something? Why can't the future be contingent on our collective actions added to those of others and the like?

If Free Will is not causally determined by anything, then it's behavior must be random. I mean how else could you describe it.
And even if Free Will is random, it's hard to see how a randomly acting entity can be said to be "Free".

Because the people that advocate for suppression of free speech, etc, imagine that somehow it wont also apply to them. Only the "wrong" kind of people.

You're just so stunted to not realize the deepest truths. I embrace Christians because they embrace deep truths, whether they understand why or not. Just because kike stories have these truths embedded in them doesn't mean theyre the only way those truths can be communicated.

What the fuck are you saying? If there is an omnipotent creator there can be no choice. Free will can not exist if there is an omnipotent creator.

But then, what determines our collective actions? Free Will? But doesn't that beg the question.

Hmm.. I don't know. Because this country is infested with bureaucrats, secret agents, and other power hungry fucks.

>And even if Free Will is random, it's hard to see how a randomly acting entity can be said to be "Free".
This so much, Free will fags BTFO.

III. From a given definite cause an effect necessarily follows; and, on the other hand, if no definite cause be granted, it is impossible that an effect can follow.

Not necessarily. We could intervene like someone picking a paper boat out of a rain-stream and so could God in our lives, like a line that runs to infinity in one direction but is terminated by the acts of a hand at the other. With respect to the line forging into the future the the action of time and unknown and unknowable variables prevents that another hand from terminating it while flowing. This is the essence of the Freedom.

Freewill is constrained by uncertainty, chaos, and possibility of reality. This is not synonymous with random. Random has a specific mathematical and logical basis that lazy brains confuse with uncertainty.

I'll think about that user.

>What? How does that make sense
Serious question?

Here's a simple example. Let's suppose you are struggling against eating a donut.
The decision of whether or not you will eat it is determined by neural connections in your brain.
Signals on these neural connections is particle movement.
If Free Will exists and your decision can go either way, that means particles can behave one way or another

Ergo, their behavior is non-deterministic, unpredictable, random

>That's not what quantum physics says
See, I know exactly what you mean, and you're the one who's confused. You're talking about the uncertainty principle, and I can't blame you for misinterpreting it, because Physicists who describe it usually don't understand it themselves.

Here's the breakdown: the fact that we can't *MEASURE* a particle's position and velocity doesn't mean that they don't have a specific position and velocity.

They absolutely do, and it's absolutely, 100% predictable.

It's just impossible to measure it by nature, due to the fact that you can't measure something without changing its properties.

Because free will is dumb.

Either we live in a deterministic universe and so we have no free will, or our universe is not deterministic and we are subject to random fluxuations we cannot control and so we have no free will.

>> Why are liberals, athiests, agnostics, and non Christians so against the idea of FREE WILL
so can u tell us why if u fit the list?

See only those who would moralize care if bad behavior is someone's fault. The amoral have no problem dealing with it no matter who is at fault.

>MY PARENTS TOOK MY TO CHURCH AND WOULDN'T LET ME DO DRUGS! IM FUCKING PISSED!

>And still never been refuted

What is there to refute? Your inability to understand?!

io9.gizmodo.com/why-randomness-may-not-mean-what-you-think-it-means-658318167

Chemical reactions within your cranium do not override cause and effect.

>things either do or don't happen
>therefore the future is predetermined
You are an oreo doublestuffed with retard filling.

>Christianity
>free will

Underage people aren't supposed to post on Sup Forums.

Because it comes with responsibility.

I agree with 1-5, but not 6.

Sure, the truthhood of "I will breakfast tomorrow" is predetermined by the past/natural laws, and is either true or false, but that doesn't mean I'm not free to make a choice about eating/not eating breakfast tmr.
It just so happens that since I am part of the universe, any free choice that I make coincides with the will (laws) of the universe.

It's like when you fuck up but try and cover for yourself by saying, "I meant to do that."

I am free to do whatever I want, but whatever I do will be determined by what I want to do.
That doesn't mean I can't do whatever I want.

If free will doesn't exist, then no one can be held morally responsible for their actions, and you determinists are basically animals for condemning people to rot in prison when you don't believe they've done anything fault-worthy.

Please consider constrained free will. You can still have freewill even if you are a slave to logic of reality.

I agree, my problem was with the idea that free will means randomness, your second statement is basically my views on that.

There's no evidence that free will exists. The universe obeys the law of cause and effect.

'Free will' is exclusively american concept. I was raised as a christian and only once or twice

It's just a thought, but perhaps Schrödinger's cat is a useful illustration--there it was stated that the cat was both dead and alive at the present moment, but in the future it may be both dead and alive and getting heather and getting sicker and everything along the gamut between life and death in lieu of the experiment's possession of a reality in which anything along those lines might take place.

then why do u jerk of to anime?

>REEEeeeeeeeeeeee
>why did my parents love me enough to give me guidance?!?!?

>1 post by this (((ID)))
>I've been found out

>1. All statements are true or false. (by law of excluded middle)
Actually it's true or not true by the laws of logic, A or not A, not A or B.

>5. The future is predetermined. (by 3 and 4)
3 and 4 don't lead to this.

Because my parents let me watch Speed Racer when I was a kid. It was all downhill from there :(

What I'm saying is that randomness couldn't possibly be free will.

And unfortunately no, you are confused abot quantum physics. The latest theories describe quantum phenomena as inherently nondeterministic, they are probabilistic. This is entirely unrelated to the uncertainty principle

>American Christians ACTUALLY believe they persecuted in literally any way

that whole post is retarded

even if you choose to focus on when Jesus was stern in scripture, that's because he was god, and he clearly says that only god is meant to judge and punish. tell gay people you hate them having butt sex all you want but when you try and legislate that or force your shit on people you go full retard

Not all statements are true or false. Paradox is the realm of God.

>Not all statements are true or false
Right, they're true or not true. A or not A.

Not true is equivalent to false. Paradox is where both true and false are contradicted simultaneously. They're not mutually exclusive is probably what you're trying to say.

No, they are mutually exclusive actually. Something can't be A and not A simultaneously.

well then it couldn't be deterministic. And saying it's determined that it's probabilistic is as empty as saying "we know we don't know."

On the other hand we can freely bet on odds. We do it all the time in fact.

Yes they can. That is a paradox.

Well i mean I'm a centrist Christian and i don't really believe in FREE WILL because we are a byproduct of how we are raised, and those actions shaped us. I'm sure in the future someone would be able to make a formula on it. Besides, if God knows all (which he does), then he has to know the outcome, meaning our free will is only so free if our outcome is set in stone. Einstein's special theory of relativity kind of proves that by saying that time is a dimension in it of itself. FREE WILL is just something we say to make ourselves special and unique, but we're all just basically nothing cogs in the grand scheme of things.

By all means exemplify something which is both A and not A then.

>WAAHHHHH MY MOMMY ACTUALLY RAISED ME IN A CORRECT MANNER WAHHHHHH!!!!1!1!

I am totally for free will. That's why I simultaneously hate niggers and consciously break laws.

ok
>This statement is false

how are agnostics against free will?

oyyy veyyy!

They are filth and servants of jews.

The jewish identity is ultimately nothingness. It does not understand beauty or solace in the divine, it wishes everything to mean nothing and be reduced to mechanical parts.

I think we should execute people for atheism, which means we'd get 80% of US jews.

That is still A.

Can a being be omnipotent if they can't create free will?

lol that picture looks like sansa stark and hermoini granger crossed