Is universal income inevitable?

Is universal income inevitable?

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portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=52642.pdf
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution
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also what will you do with your cash?

I think so
Post-scarcity automated economies are the endgame for human civilization.
UBI is a step in that direction, but im not confident its totally necessary.

No, humans are too stupid and breed too much for it to be possible.
It only works if you control population (breeding/immigration) heavily. And even then in that sort of economy, people will just make a shit ton of money from their job so there would be no UBI.

>and breed too much for it to be possible
don't tell me you fell for the overpopulation meme

Only cucks and weak shits fear competition.


Weak, triggered shits who need to play with play-doh after their presidential candidate lost cant build a successful society.

So do you think it's inevitable (in rich countries at least) or not?

Fuck no, for the same reasons communism will never, ever work

No its not, but its a self-feeding negative loop. Just read the top paragraph, it reads like some launrdy list if your average western college students fee-fees.

Too scaredy of functioning in the big meanie hurtful world, wants to turn everything into a non-competitive socialist shithole and virtue signal about how superior he is. Absolute, nation-wrecking degeneracy.

Universal Income has nothing to do with communism you fucking retard

Here's the problem with this basic income idea.
>give out basic income
>housing prices increase in response
>landlords increase rent
>wealth disparity increases
And you've just made the problem worse because now even more money is going to even fewer people.

So what happens when robots take up 50% of the jobs?

It doesn't have to, they both function on the premise that people aren't greedy walking shitpiles, which is why they will never work

Nothing? Western fertility rate declining would match the jobs lost to robotization perfectly. The same ones pushing that migration shit are the ones advocating this communist wet dream

Possibly, as automation increases. It would be lousy though.

I for one can't wait for the state to completely control my income aka my means of survival. The robots will do all the work, while I receive a check in the mail and we all live in a technocratic communist utopia.

What could possibly go wrong?

I don't understand this though

The people whose jobs would be replaced by robots would just not work and be paid a living wage, right? Would people such as myself, controls engineers, be paid a hell of a lot more? What if I just want to quit working and be paid a basic income?

>Western fertility rate declining
Most of the west is currently at equilibrium so with that fact your argument kind of falls apart.

>The same ones pushing that migration shit are the ones advocating this communist wet dream
Listen I'm not for it either, just trying to understand.

It's not a letter of overpopulation. It's just that if the labor force grows, because population grows, the output per worker better increase or else GDP per capita falls.
Simple growth Economics.
Especially if unemployment is inevitable due to technology (highly debatable), then it only suggests more of a need to reduce population and the labor force.

fuck off leftypol

I'm guessing corporations would get taxed to hell and at a certain point.
>Would people such as myself, controls engineers, be paid a hell of a lot more?
Prob the same as usual but still much more than the average leech.
>What if I just want to quit working
People who want more money than universal income provides will take your place

>Most of the west is currently at equilibrium

No, its not. The decline is slowed because of the influx of migrants and their much higher fertility.

>Listen I'm not for it either, just trying to understand.

Then try to understand this:

Communism FAILS. Every single instance of trying communist policies FAILED and completely ruined the country attempting it for decades.,

So stop your post-scarcity wet dreams when western civilization is busy dying to cultural marxism and apathy. Its the fall of rome all over again.

The reason why basic income should be implemented has nothing to do with your childish "post-scarcity" bullshit.

The NUMBER ONE REASON why basic income is superior to current social programs and benefits would be to remove huge chunks of bureaucracy that currently exists with the benefits system.
Do you know how hard it is for governments to avoid welfare traps? That issue would mostly go away with a single system for basic income that your employer pays back either in (income adjusted) part or in full.

Fuck free riders, implement basic income.

this will never happen because society will react to these changes.
You would like to drain the resources, dump your waste and do nothing for the future.

>violence
>selfishness
>rivalry
>resentment
sign me the fuck up

>durr freeridirs r a brublim
>lets mak every1 a freeridir :D

Are you for real? This is like when when the liberals decriminalize something then brag about the decreasing crime statistics.

Atleast do basic napkin math and realize how any sort of basic income would bankrupt a state unless youre an arab oil monarchy like brunei, dubai or norway.

why would anyone that has the resources agree to this? no one is going to pay for loads of freeloaders to exist. and if this happened your right to choose # of kids, housing, all life choices would be at their discretion

because its cheaper to feed and entertain the masses than to exterminate them. plus they can still vote.

blacks had a massive entrepreneurship ratio before the civil rights act, for example

>I'm guessing corporations would get taxed to hell and at a certain point.

globalism means they can all relocate to some island nation and put up giant walls. why would they agree to pay for all this?

I am a pretty heavy supporter of capitalism and pretty right-wing but if things got to such a point where a handful of people hold literally all the power and money in the country/world and the rest of the population has no ability to work and no ability to sustain themselves, you are going to have to let go of your obsession with meritocracy and consider ways to solve that issue, and the only real viable solution short of an incredibly violent and probably unsuccessful revolution is some degree of socialism/universal basic income.

The alternative is the majority of the world's population living in absolute poverty and that handful of people lording over them.

I'd be happy to have someone provide me an alternative to this, and I also want to disclaim that I'm pretty sure that a situation like this probably won't happen in our lifetimes.

Farming leftist voters perpetuating the cycle.

universal basic income is an unsustainable system and hence will never work

Its cute you guys think it wouldn't be section 8 tier nigger infested commie blocks.

Welcome home UBI user!

All non-hunter-gatherer cultures are unsustainable and only work temporarily.

Basing your economy on constant growth is unsustainable.

>Post-scarcity automated economies
> Ever being anything other than fantasy/science fiction

>People who want more money than universal income provides will take your place
So working people will pay more for goods/services because inflation, welfare niggers will still be welfare niggers.

Nothing changes but the burden on working class.

curious. are there any white welfare states like we have black ones in inner city america?

Get comfy

Removes the need for bureaucracy and makes healthcare more efficient so it saves more than it costs.
Countries like China and India want to make it happen because they know they're fucked when robots come. Or so I heard.

I hope it's true. That means we'll be here forever NEETposting.

>I would like to sell you a bridge
UBI is the Marxist flavor of the month bullshit...just like Net Neutrality, 15$/hr minimum salary, Universal Healthcare, (((automation))), Carbon Caps, etc.

...

ayy that's more than what I can afford with 2 part-time jobs already.
If that and anti-aging tech is finally implemented we'd be in for the comfiest times in the history of the humankind.

i've never heard of section 8 trailer parks. they're usually poor quality apartment buildings

>Removes the need for bureaucracy

Christ that fucking shill line again. Are you seriously implying that couple thousand office monkeys running social services is a large drain on a a nations resources instead of a rounding error?

>and makes healthcare more efficient so it saves more than it costs.

What the fuck is that even supposed to mean? You think all the bydlos would spend their free dosh on healthcare instead of booze, gambling and drugs? Also, please, just please do the barest of calculations how much even a single months basic income would cost compared to healthcare expenses.

>Countries like China and India want to make it happen because they know they're fucked when robots come

>basic income for over 1 billion subsistence farmers

???

There is an awful lot of luxury items not covered by UBI in your pic.

Hookers and blow

>dignified
there's that word again
that is a buzzword and only nonargument from the people who whine about this

That buzzword came from somewhere, someone started that, it's repeated too many times to be a coincidence

WTF where have you been the last years. Welfare and social security destroys community spirit more than anything else. Young people get mad at Old people because they will retire late and have shitty pensions while they have to support the old through social security who will always vote for no cuts on spending. The middle class gets angry at poor people for abusing the welfare system and smoking pot with welfare money, poor and stupid people get mad at others because it's they are right to have shit for free. The same thing will happen with the universal income. Who is going to pay for that shit?

You can section8 anything you own if it's in livable condition.

Housing Assistance Payments Contract
Manufactured Home Space Rental

portal.hud.gov/hudportal/documents/huddoc?id=52642.pdf

I always see people arguing about the economic impacts of this exclusively and not the others besides muh niggers.

A society like this would be a corporate and government run dystopia and ultimately globalist. This is the capitalist equivalent of communism.

Literally just ultra-consumerism.

"Post scarcity" can only exist when we have very advance AI which can gather all the resources we need for us from the universe and give us everything we can ever imagine (also possibly through VR).

There might be UBI in some form for some time, but eventually most of humanity will probably be exterminated or left to die by the elite who control the AI and have all the resources. So much for your commie utopia.

Put yourself in their shoes, what's the point of keeping everyone fed and alive when 99.99% of the population is just a burden?

The real redpill is that this is almost certainly going to happen, maybe even in this century.

Life needs purpose. You can only simulate the feeling for a while. That's why so many gamers are committing suicide in their 30s. It hits sooner or later: You're a waste of space with no claim to life. You don't know what you are, you don't know where you come from and you have no idea what to do with yourself. Even the fartsiest artsiest types will eventually find themselves returned to the void when they defy intrinsic value and purpose. The construct falls.

Universal Income should only be discussed when absolute, universal automisation puts such large portion of people out of work that anyone other than few select people in tiny non-automitised areas is unable to feed themselves.

this is a fact

>Literally just ultra-consumerism.
How would it be consumerism if they lack the disposable income to buy shit?

So I guess the question is, will people even care enough to reject their comfy and safe lifestyle?

>middle class gets mad at supporting roaches
>middle class has the mobility to pack their shit up and leave for another EU state
>conditions get even worse at home
>lower class bydlos whine for even more handouts
>they have no intention to enter the workforce at all now, a culture of mooching is all they know
>they believe they deserve a good life and they are just opressed by the greedy and jealous rich(projection lol)
>gommunist revolution, either at the ballot box or on the streets
>GOTO10 until communism is achieved
>claim it wasnt real communism after it collapses


The vicious cycle of gibsmedat. Just look at fucking venezuela. Oil out of the ass, they could have been the Norway of south america yet they managed to drive their country in the ground so hard with socialism they dont have bread and toilet paper in the stores.

>should only be discussed when

t. bootlicker

>welfare
>minimum wage
it already exists

what

But that is good. UBI doesn't mean you don't have to work for your shit. It means you have some basic salary for the basic stuff, then you can expand from there.
If you have UBI you shouldn't be able to afford an Iphone.
>Are you seriously implying that couple thousand office monkeys running social services is a large drain on a a nations resources instead of a rounding error?
Welfare leeches+bureaucracy drain more than that.
>What the fuck is that even supposed to mean?
The experiments so far have proven that people's health improves in the short run (as in 3 years)
They've successfully tried it in some regions of India and Norway, I believe. Now they want to try in some African region. If it works there you can bet it works.

I've been reading about it for some time. I'm still thinking there must be a horrible catch.

What are you talking about? If this were implemented it wouldn't be communism which is just idealism, there would be a livable flow of money for everyone and the entire economic system would literally just be
you buy things>company uses money to make more things and gives you some>repeat. Its almost as unnatural as unadulterated communism.

No.

The extinction of the working class and middle class are though.

Once menial jobs are all automated, it will be impractical for the ruling class to keep them alive. The only reason they are allowed to live right now is because of the democratic system we live in; they are the reason the elites can stay in power.

Considering our current system is just some weimar type government mixed with mass consumerism i'd say most likely not.

>Welfare leeches+bureaucracy drain more than that.

hahaha, no, because the VAST MAJORITY of people is NOT a welfare leech.

>But that is good. UBI doesn't mean you don't have to work for your shit. It means you have some basic salary for the basic stuff, then you can expand from there.

the girl in your picture is a NEET and leeches from mom & dad

>But that is good. UBI doesn't mean you don't have to work for your shit. It means you have some basic salary for the basic stuff, then you can expand from there.
>If you have UBI you shouldn't be able to afford an Iphone.
So minimum wage, got it.

Whats the difference than what we have now?

Get roommates and minimum wage covers your life.

You're living too extravagantly on your basic income user.

So what you're saying is...

Are you retarded? Minimum wage still requires work dumbass.

>Welfare leeches

Brilliant idea then to make a wellfare leech out of an ENTIRE COUNTRY then.

>bureaucracy

What bureaucracy? Explain your stupid buzzword.You are literally whining about a couple thousand office workers.

>regions

Do the fucking napkin math already. UBI/person/year x population and compare it to the GDP and the amount of money going to health deparments.

YOU CANT CREATE VALUE OUT OF NOTHING. THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS FREE MONEY

>yfw all of the qualities listed under "Survival Anxiety" are really just a list of qualities of K-selected individuals that r-selected individuals fear

UBI is the epitome of r-selection and r-selection is cancer to civilization.

...

you can live in a shelter free of charge these days.

They give soup at churches.

Thats your UBI atm. Free place to stay, free food. The rest is luxury items.

Will not work without price controls. Half the cost of your apartment or house it to keep niggers from living next to you.

slay the dragon

So what happens when I still have my job? Do I become an upper class god or what?

Yes but guess what retard, the implications are entirely fucking different. The idea behind UBI is that automation is going to kill almost every job out there. Truck drivers, factory workers, and cashiers alike will be replaced. Shelters and so on usually come out of like you said churches or other philanthropic organizations. Under this system nearly the entire population would live off of taxed money from mega-corporations.

>universal basic income securing participation in society
i do not see how anyone could ever see this as a logical conclusion. universal basic income will only erase engagement in society.

Inevitable in the same way that it's inevitable that the Earth will become tidally locked with the sun.

It'll happen, but it's not going to happen for a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong time.

So don't start spending your NEET bucks yet, you parasite.

>hey guys, this technological advancement is going to result in permanent displacement of workers, unlike every other technological advancement in history

The difference here is that instead of it being a specific part of the population it would be EN MASSE.

People here can't live with minimum wage.
Got two jobs. Earn 1200. Spend 600 monthly on living and housing, and it's relatively cheap. Then there's taxes. The rest I save it for luxury shit and vacation, or for emergencies. I will never afford a house.
>the VAST MAJORITY of people is NOT a welfare leech.
But the system is easily abused. In theory, you won't be able to rig this one. However, it's also been unsuccessful in some places. So far all we have is theories and some people trying to make it happen in small regions. When the first country implements it fully the real happening will unfold. I personally think it's too good to be Jtrue. just a happy dream to keep us quiet until robots fuck our shit up, which should be happening next decade.

UBI is only effective in small populations.

But how do you tax the mega corp when nobody has money in the first place to buy the mega corps product so the mega corp can pay taxes that you want to spend on mega corps product?

Is automation?
The more useful things we create the more useless people we end up with.


Pol seems rather fine with killing off poor people because they're lazy though

where has it been tried and failed

How is the government going to pay for universal basic income?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Industrial_Revolution

Stop using your fear of the unknown to justify your r-strategist deficiencies.

Ah so pure fantasy then?

Will we get ravens in mobile armors working for different corporate interests in this fantasy world? I like that one.

Can't remember. I think it was somewhere on Northern Europe.

People always want more money than what the poverty line's lifestyle offers. Setting a "basic income" moves the poverty line and changes nothing.

It's just another Jew trick

>Got two jobs. Earn 1200. Spend 600 monthly on living and housing, and it's relatively cheap

rent a place with other people, 600 turns into 100 each for 6 people, 200 for 3.

I'm not trying to support it first of all.

But the big thing here is that this system wouldn't start from square one, it would be implemented as time goes on. The money would work in an infinite cycle, foreign exports are also an important factor in this.

that is my dream

>Survival anxiety

This shit doenst exist in most places in the world. If you have access to internet, you already safe from DF omplete misery. There is a shitload of gimmes dats that allow you to live.

I have a pretty simple life, use very little money. Can survive ina neet lifestyle if i wanted (not neet though).

People whi have anxiety have so because they are consumerous tools that are worried about not having their luxury shit, not basic stuff like food and housing.

Dude, we've been fucked ever since those looms were created.

Ludd was right!

universal basic income will inevitably be the downfall of humans. extrapolate this over hundreds of generations and we'll have essentially the most useless race of humans ever. there would be zero incentive to do anything other than sit around and become vegetables. enjoy your shit genes, i pray for the future

I pay 350 for rent, which is pretty cheap here. Other 250 are for food internets and others

From complete misery*

Yeah haven't gotten that far into the future yet

Also this is actually practiced