TrumpRand Healthcare

Discuss this tweet.

Have the jews lost?

I hope they do it right this time

I fucking hate Trump's stance of healthcare.
>covering pre-existing condition
May was well just burn our budget for the year and say they tried

Why is this so bad?

BOUT FUCKING TIME!

RYAN IS A FUCKING FAGGOT!

someone can go their whole life without it then jump in and take money when they start getting old or fat.

Would hemorrhoids be covered?

Trump's health care plan is basically "durrrrrrrrrrrrr"

His stance is realistic from a political standpoint. Keep in mind a large part of his voter base are poor Rust Belters and old Miners. Both of these people benefit from pre-existing conditions, so going out and saying "I am getting rid of this thing" would be complete political suicide. I am hoping RandCare is a genuine move towards a more free market system, but I think he has no choice but to keep the pre-existing conditions part.

Rand's idea of healthcare is a wooden table for you and Tahiti Treat for him

mfw I'm Trump

>everyone pays 100 dollars for insurance
>occasionally it goes up or down but 100 is the average price
>bum fuck mcgee who found out he has diabeetus join in when they otherwise would've been rejected
>now have to pay more to accommodate him

Yes.

I understand it's a good political move for the votes but it's not a good move for healthcare. It's fucking stupid and it's causing me to really hate him. That and him trying to work with leftist really triggers me.

read an economics textbook. The very concept of insurance relies upon the company judging the risk of each customer and then setting the rate at a level which which statistically justify keeping them as customers. If a customer is too high-risk, it's within the company's financial interest to deny them service.

This is how EVERY real insurance system works. If you got rid of the ability to deny service, the insurance companies' profit potential will plummet. This means there would be little incentive to enter that market, which will lead to a lack of competition, which will lead to overall high health premiums and monopolies. This is what happens EVERY SINGLE TIME socialist governments try to fix prices and regulate to "improve" the free market.

What Trump and the government want is not insurance. Insurance is based upon you yourself paying for a worst-case scenario you don't expect to happen. If you are sick, and you KNOW you will need health money in the neat future, that's not insurance. That's a known expense that in any other field would be funded out of pocket. But because a sick person can't possibly pay millions out of his own pocket, and insuraing them for a known expense is pants-on-head retarded, the only option is to steal millions from the taxpayer to fund it. This is what happens in the end.

basically, Trump is a dirty socialist. It's my least-liked part of his agenda, which is mostly good otherwise.

Go back to National Review.

Sounds like insurance isn't the best system for human healthcare after all. Really made me think.

we can always do no insurance at all and you just pay out of pocket always.

problem is that the bottom retards would get shafted as they're no good with money.

insurance was originally intended for the richer people to pay for some of the poorfag medical expenses.

now its pretty much the opposite.

FUCK OFF YOU RETARDS

RANDCARE/TRUMPCARE IS SHIT

MEDICARE FOR ALL IS WHAT WE NEED

explain to me why is it within society's interest to steal ugodly quantities of money to support people who will contribute nowhere near the amount that they consumed? Why does a random diabetes dude deserve millions of taxpayer dollars when over his lifetime he will make substantially less than that in taxes? Society will be literally better off if he died.

Keep in mind that if his profit potential was higher than his health-care costs, then he could easily pay for it himself (e.g., via loans). The free market will only get rid of people who aren't worth it, and there will always be those kind of cases. We don't have infinite money, so it's completely idiotic to spend unlimited amounts to support people who aren't worth it.

Graysoncare is the best plan.

I need someone to talk to please.

I was recently released from prison after a 2 year + stint inside and I'm feeling hopeless and unironically considering suicide.

You can make the same argument for
>police
>fire
>energy subsidies
>farm subsidies
>roads
>military
>tons of other shit

I dont fucking get this. So a sick person, someone who actually needs medical help is the one you want to deny insurance to? Yes, obese and drug addicted degenerates need to go and this is a problem that needs to be dealt with, but other than that you are basically saying that someone who is sick is exactly the kind of person that should have a harder time getting medical help. What the fuck man?

So you are saying we should just let people with treatable conditions die? And I bet you call yourself Christian

Are you on frog twitter?

>MEDICARE FOR ALL IS WHAT WE NEED
we're not paying for your healthcare no matter how much you kick and scream.

>So you are saying we should just let people with treatable conditions die?
if there were good treatments for Fatfuck McBeetus then i wouldnt mind medicare for all.

but since all they do is treat symptoms and keep allowing him to shove his fat fucking face then its NO DEAL.

was at a festival this w/e and lots of comedians from cali, and of course lots of jewish comedians (like 80% of comedians are jewish), and they were all in hysterics over trump

No.

police, fire, military and other such institutions are state monopolies. if you removed tax funding for them, they would not exist, which is a bad outcome for everyone, as they provide services which people desire and would pay for. This is not the case for health-care, which would work fine (and much better) if you remove all state involvement. The analogy you're giving is not very good.

What'd you do?

The free market would enter and solve it. You just have to subscribe to the Walmart Public Safety Gold Plan.

user, what if there was an obscure condition with a "cure" that costs 2 trillion dollars? is the taxpayer justified in paying that, because "who would let a person with a treatable conditions die!?"

Hunted cats illegally. Now that I'm out I hunt them legally - feral cats are legal to hunt. I salt cure them from the rafters in my basement and eat them and sell it to friends - a cottage industry of sorts

Well why do you want to off yourself?

you are trying corner me off into the bottom right, but unfortunately you hit upon my actual belief. That's a whole other can of worms, though.

You sound very Asian user.

Free Rider Problem 101.

Hello Stefan.

Why not have healthcare that simply supports anyone who has a legitimate health issue? Heart attack, stroke, cancer, broken bones, gunshot wound, etc. We can simply deny those who are responsible for their own problems, such as drug addled degenerates, or obese landwhales who refuse to stop eating. Insurance is clearly not the way to solve health issues.

Please give me a background on you so I can better understand how I can help you

My family has shunned me. They hate me. I live on a relatively isolated piece of land and live with my mother. She hates me. Drive into town to sell cat meat/skins. I also trap other critters and sell their meat and skins in town.

I'm Welsh

It's called capitalism retard. Learn it. I should have the right to deny service to anyone I want. If servicing somebody is going to lose me money I should definitely have the right to say fuck off.

See

>We can simply deny those who are responsible for their own problems
hahahahaha

user, I worked in healthcare. I can tell you that over 90% of health-problems are almost entirely self-inflicted and related to life-choice. If you imposed that rule, then health-care as we know it wouldn't exist. Good fucking luck implementing that.

because the landwhales will vote it in next election and liberals will cry racism.

Because then they have to keep the individual mandate.

See I get the idea of fucking forcing people to make healthier lifestyle choices or force their insurance prices go up, no one wants to be footing medical bills for the fat fucks who eat nothing but fried shit and drink entire 2 liters of soda every day and the drug junkies who fill their bodies with chemicals
But saying "nah fuck you we know you're sick because of conditions your born with and it makes it difficult to have a job to get paid so you get jack shit" just makes people want to go full socialist takeover
I do believe that a Government funded healthcare for those with terminal illnesses and permanent disabilities and wounded warriors is a good idea

might work if you had to go a specified amount of time before collecting. Would slow down fat autistic fucks.

I'm a libertarian on most issues, but not healthcare. If somebody is sick, they shouldn't have to worry about money. The government should just pay for whatever treatment they need until they're feeling well again.

Ah yes. The ideal solution is to simply force anyone without several years' worth of pay saved up, to simply die if they ever get sick or injured.
THAT will help make our societies a great and wonderful place to live.

Jesus christ do you ancap retards even listen to yourselves? You're fucking delusional.

Single payer is the way to go desu. It's a step in the right direction. He has to find middle ground between both R's and D's to get all the support he can from them to set us in the right direction.

Baby steps in the right direction healthcare wise while we simultaneously deport illegals abusing the system, stop more from coming in (also refugees which we are already cutting down on). The only group left to fix are the fatass pieces of shit that eat 10 bigmacs a day. We could install a fitness test like Japan has for that problem.

Have you ever tried to make a life out of selling meats, and making just a basic meat shop.
That kind of stuff that makes iu money in Atlanta Georgia

>Ah yes. The ideal solution is to simply force anyone without several years' worth of pay saved up,
so why arent you saving your money retard?

The thought that you trust our government to not fuck it up scares me. Be like Va 2.0 where they blow $100 million on paintings.

that's wonderful user. that means you are okay with spending 16 trillion dollars a year on treating people's health problems the fullest extent possible, right? Afer all, sick people shouldn't worry about money!

Should have been Rand.

Oh well I am not for democracy, I was talking hypothetically, not in OUR system but in general. Say in a monarchy or a fascist state.

Yes I am aware that this is what capitalism is. But clearly healthcare is one issue where capitalism is not needed because it is bad for a nation. In a fascist state for example, it would be ok for the government to take care of it. There is no need to have loyal citizens dying because they couldnt afford insurance.

Not in our current system of hyper inclusive democracy, I mean in general as an idea. I dont see why healthcare absolutely must be taken care of capitalistically. Only if you are an ancap should this be an issue.

>Afer all, sick people shouldn't worry about money!

Well, yeah, pretty much.

>The ideal solution is to simply force anyone without several years' worth of pay saved up
it's called loans. if you don't qualify, or the cost of it is completely unreasonable related to your income, then why the fuck should I be the one paying it?

I actually think universal healthcare isn't so bad. But here's the thing: the US isn't a high trust society. Shit, it's not even much of a nation-state anymore. That kind of program can only exist in an enviornment where people want to uplift their fellow countrymen because of his love of nation (And thus the people in it.). We can't have that here.

I've been reading America's Bitter Pill, which is a comprehensive account of the formation and execution of Obamacare. Basically, Obamacare has its roots in a system proposed by Nixon and later implemented in MS by Mitt Romney (as governor) and Ted Kennedy. Romneycare gave lots of people good coverage and was bipartisan, but was too expensive. They didn't prioritize cost when they wrote it. Obamacare wasn't actually made by Obama, and when he said "his health care plan" in his speeches, he was lying. He only helped negotiate it. He wasn't doing the dirty work crunching numbers or writing policy.
The economic and Health and Human Services committees that were key in writing the policy ultimately came up with a pretty good plan that was unrealistically and poorly scored by the Congressional Budget Office, and would never pass because Republicans wouldn't vote for any health care reform, even if it was a good plan - they couldn't let something good happen under Democrat control. Newt Gingrich, Paul Ryan, John Boehner, and John McCain, plus many other neocons were in on opposing health care reform.

The idea behind the mandate is to eliminate the freeloader problem - everyone signs up instead of only buying insurance when they're sick. Call it socialism, but it's probably the only way to get people to buy care outside of government-provided insurance. The real cost of insurance doesn't come from the insurance companies - the costs come from big pharmaceutical companies, companies that manufacture medical equipment, and hospital networks. For example, in Canada pharmaceutical companies have their profits capped. In the US, before Obamacare (maybe now, I haven't gotten to that part of the book), Medicare was not able negotiate the cost of drugs. This wrote a blank check to the pharma companies.

nah Rand's only schtick is healthcare the rest of the country would be on fire.

Why should somebody have to go into debt just because they got sick?

I sell critter meat but not in a formal shop. The townspeople know about me and send me orders. Salted cat is particularly popular but I get orders for squirrel, boar, racoon, field mouse, etc. I make a decent buck off of it. I've got a pretty big set up in my basement too (pic related).

Also, before the animal lovers freak out I want you to know this is legal because the cats are feral and are considered pests by people and the government. They don't suffer, I do it 100% humanely. The cats in this picture are dead and are salt curing for customers.

What the fuck

>Oh well I am not for democracy, I was talking hypothetically, not in OUR system but in general. Say in a monarchy or a fascist state.
might work okay, who actually gets treatment becomes a problem though.

It's a business. Calm down.

It wouldn't necessarily be universal healthcare, just healthcare for people who are sick or injured.

Exactly...if it's a service worth having the free market would step in, have to compete with other sources of that service, and be directly responsible to the subscribers of that service. Unlike the govt who is not financially held to any standard and literally wasted trillions of customers money.

He's larping as a man-beast living in the woods.

>hurr durr da free murket wull solve it

What prevents the "free market" from "solving it" now?

why should anyone go into debt for any reason? does the government need to bail out anyone that's in a pinch because that's "humane"? should we have free college because we shouldn't allow people to go into debt to get an education?

you're using emotional arguments, not rational ones.

continued
Basically, in the US, we need to make the population healthier (limit obesity, diabetes, and heart disease), regulate (fairly and responsibly) hospital networks so they can't become monopolies over certain areas, limit health care lobbying, and keep health care equipment manufacturing companies in check. We also need to reform the malpractice system, as doctors often issue extra tests that are unnecessary when compared to other countries, and they don't do it for extra charge - they do it defensively so that if something happens to the patient they can prove that they tested everything.
Obamacare consisted of a bunch of agreements between Chuck Schumer and individual Democrats that were mostly stripped from what they were originally (example: excluding certain states from medical taxes because manufacturers were there). Pelosi, Schumer, Obama, and the advisory committees threw together a shitty version of a good bill that had been butchered to pass Congress but ultimately had to be modified to pass reconciliation (51 votes for a bill consisting of mostly financial policy) because they couldn't pass a filibuster (which Republicans have abused more in modern times than any other time in US history). Because the bill was rushed through after being planned out and negotiated for at least 3 years prior, it had inconsistencies that became law, was shoehorned through partisanly, and Obama focused more on getting people to sign up rather than finish implementing it well (the site, the exchange, etc).

Health care in the US is a clusterfuck and I'll be surprised if Trump or the Republicans can get anything done, and if they do accomplish something, it will likely differ from Romneycare (which was actually good, just needed to control costs better). I have a feeling Ryan and the rest of the neocons will ultimately fuck us over, and the Democrats will oppose any good change because they hate Trump.

I do live in the woods. I'm not "larping". I know how to give myself medical care and the full meal deal. Hell the other day I gave myself an enema to get rid of intestinal worms I got from eating bushmeat

Do you not get disturbed walking in your basement? Why would you even start this, fetish for killing cats grew into this niche?

You essentially have a graveyard for pets hanging up by hooks. Insane.

I do agree with most hardcore ancap stances, but things like the military are necessary. The market fluctuates, so the private defense forces would be going bankrupt left and right. In military and basic infrastructure, government is necessary.
Starting a paramilitary organization is borderline illegal?

but it's frrrryyyiiied

All of this is true, but what about this:

Let people form groups to pool resources and collectively negotiate with insurance companies. Basically, unionize insurance rate negotiation. If insurance companies have to negotiate with pooled communities of dozens, hundreds, or thousands of people, the position of leverage then shifts from the insurance company to the people. If the leverage shifted away from the insurance companies, actual health care costs themselves would plummet because then hospitals and pharma companies couldn't get away with charging arbitrarily hyper-inflated prices for everything.

id only agree if i can pool with other /fit/ males instead of lard mcfatfuck.

>For example, in Canada pharmaceutical companies have their profits capped
Price controls deter R&D investments, and therefore innovation. If no companies have a reason to research treatments for diseases, people it affects consumers in the long run.

The government moron, do you think healthcare is an untethered free enterprise? American healthcare, while not under government regulations, was unquestionably the best on Earth, doctors made house calls, and was insanely cheap...like college before government; degrees weren't necessary for entry level jobs, were distinguishing, and were worth value and mot every nigger had one to work at target as a manager. But that's a whole different can of worms.

Why shouldn't the government pay for healthcare? I don't see any downside.

there are millions of pencil pushing desk jockeys who would trade places to become literal mountain men. build a log cabin

>Why should somebody have to go into debt just because they got sick?

Life's not fair you fucking faggot. For the entire duration of human history up to less than 100 years ago, people just fucking died if they got sick and that's just how it was.

Unfortunately leftists memed this into a dealbreaker. Talk to anyone about this subject and muh pre-existing conditions is always brought up like they automated robots conditioned to say it.

Yeah it's a bit odd at times but I usually blast classic rock down there while I'm working so it's good vibes. It's just like a butchers shop.

I started hunting feral cats because of boredom living out here plus they're pests. It's a very popular animal to hunt in Australia. I hunt other animals too though - all "pests" so that I don't have to apply for govt tags.

If there was no insurance company oligarchy, medicines and treatment would be exponentially cheaper, as the oligarchy wouldn't be able to inflate prices.

If medicines and treatment were exponentially cheaper, charities could take care of sick people who can't afford it, because the charities could afford it. And it would be better for everyone because, unlike government bureaucracies, charity boards would actually try to be efficient.

Ron Paul has explained this in detail, for example. How, before social security, he, a doctor, used to work at a church charity hospital, and they didn't turn down anyone. But then the premiums went up to hell and back, making it impossible to afford running charity clinics in the US.

What socialism does is run charity out of business. You're not allowed to support, say, the local church hospital. Because there's no local church hospital. The government will take over, thank you very much, and even if you didn't believe in that charity before, now you HAVE to give to the government charity hospital called social security, which by the way is a ponzi scheme. Oh, and the funds will go to wherever the fuck the government wants them to go, so of course your local social security will offer a worse service than if you had your charity hospital.

My heart says single payer
My brain says privatized

I think there can be a somewhat worthy blend.

>privatize healthcare
>competition across state lines drives down prices
>deport everyone abusing the system. re: illegal mexishits and economic migrants
>expand medicare
>impose a lenient fitness test for those who wishes to utilize this privilege (re: NOT A RIGHT)
>fitness test cuts out all the fatso leeches

I don't trust the Govt or Insurance companies but the fact is we're fucked either way with our trust in them, so I'd rather split them up rather than have them spit roast us like they have with O-Care. Which is fundamentally flawed on top of all the abuse from degenerates/illegals.

>The cavemen didn't have healthcare so why should we? Life isn't fair!

I consider myself a libertarian, but I believe that people who can't or really don't want to work, shouldn't have to. The government should just pay whatever basic living expenses necessary to make sure everyone is taken care of. It's what libertarianism is all about.

The only one I have a hard time with is the military as well; I agree that a small government like assembly is probably the best solution for that. I'm sure there is a solution I just can't wrap my head around it.

I live in a normal house, just on a very large piece of land in a heavily wooded rural area, about 17 miles out of the Township.

>If there was no insurance company oligarchy, medicines and treatment would be exponentially cheaper, as the oligarchy wouldn't be able to inflate prices.
how delusional do you have to be to think that just because insurance companies are gone that the manufacturing jews will lower prices.

that wont be happening until jewish regulations that prevent competition are removed.

Also it passes on costs to others. If I have to get insurance from a company that covers pre-existing it will get built into the costs of mine, even if I have none.

I'm not saying I agree with Canada's rates, but I think limits on drugs prices and a fair tax should be acceptable. Drug companies spend millions of dollars on lobbying policy that could provide drugs to millions of people. I don't advocate the government stripping pharma companies of their profits, but you have to see that writing them a blank check with tax payer dollars is insane.

Moral hazard, dumbshit.
If everything is free, there's no incentive to regulate your own behavior.
That's how you get landwhales, unlimited shitskin breeding, and all sorts of externalities.
The burden of payment falls on people who don't use the services.

Generics, faggot.

oh, that kind of cat.

Make gourmet jerky and sell on the internet?

THIS

Societies that are twiddling their thumbs over how to pay for the massive amount of sick and dying people they have are fucking doomed anyway

>PEOPLE : Stop being so disgustingly unhealthy
>GOVERNMENT : Stop allowing companies to sell literal poison food

Because they won't sell fucking products if they don't lower prices. Insurance companies inflate prices by the consumer paying a premium, and after that is met the producer can charge as much as possible to the insurance company. They couldn't do that to the consumer because they would sell 1/100th the product and lose potential profit.

This thread is showing me how retarded pol is economically.