Arguments against communism needed

Help me out Sup Forums
With antifa and all the shitty commie blocks I really want to be armed with knowledge in case I face one of these faggots in verbal battle
Give me a rundown on concrete reasons why marxism/communsim is utter shit from the ground up

Anything by the Austrian School of Economics.

Kek

How do you beat the "real communism hasn't been tried" argument?

What's funny? Mises, Rayek, Rothbard, Hoppe,etc.

this

lurk /lrg/

Google ussr, Kuba and Venezuela. Check how the people live in a socialistic state and tell me again that's exactly what you want in your life. Or check documentaries about East berlin. Cross-check them with the west. How many examples to you need of failed states because of communism?

just funny because of my flag

It has been tried.
Counter arguments without evidence with the same fallacy and hope they realise theyou didn't thought this through. Otherwise you can forget any meaningful conversation about that topic.

Ask why three wildly difference places(Russia, China, Cambodia) all tried to go for Communism, and all ended up with the same horrid results of mismanaged economies and large political prisons

The Antifa’s are the greatest racists with their hatred of White People and Christianity.

Bitte sagt mir dieses Bild ist nicht echt. Gottverdammte Scheiße.

communism is about the abolishment of private of private property (and thus, the abolishment of freedom) in order to achieve some pie in the sky egalitarian utopian end

it follows that the best refutations come from those whose entire idealogy is built upon the notion of private property: Austrian economists / libertarians such as:
You could also read some shit like "The God that Failed" and "The Gulag Archipelago" to get ammo about the Soviet Union's implementation, specifically

A picture is truly worth a thousand words sometimes.
The photo was taken before it was deleted from the Rote Antifa Front Facebook page.
This is what the “refugee” supporters really think of Germany and her people.

Ask them to tell you what "seize the means of production" actually means.

BTW does anyone in this thread actually know what that means?

>verbal battle
>with an animal
What?

I am disgusted beyond belief by it.
I hope you stay strong Schweizerbro. Don't get crippled like we did. It will be a while until we fix our countries. Just make sure nobody starts the same bullshit over. I respect Switzerland deeply and I hope it doesn't fall to the same degeneracy.

Unintended consequences are present in the practical applications of literally every theory. The idea that they somehow negate the legitimacy of the attempt is absurd. America, for example, has lots of problems that the founders never intended, but that doesn't make it illegitimate capitalism.

German leftists are a disgusting, violent cancer to that country.
They are responsible for a lot of death and stupidity. If common Germans were smart, they’re root out this cancer at the same time they deal with Stone Age savages raping their women.
I’m like you bro, i can’t stand the cult of communism.

learn to apply argumentation from First Principles, like the nap and property. thats all you need.

also, any theory must be consistent and universal, including moral theories like gommunism. if they say that theft is bad, but its ok when THEY do it, their theory is inconsistent. just an example. find their hypocrisy in their statements and dismantle them. this kills the commie. its actually extremely easy to destroy commies and socialists.

1 argument: it didn't work

real gommunism was never tried as it is stateless. not an argument.

Commies are almost all economically illiterate retards (obviously) so putting logical arguments to them rarely works, you just have to beat them over the head with "nothing has hurt poor people more than living under communism" over and over again until they drop it.

here is the simplest and quickest answer mein freund: "Communism is built on the lie that we are all equal, it uses this as a goal post for society to obtain, but it is impossible to achieve. Commies use this as an excuse to consolidate power at the expense of personal freedoms of others"

>arguments against communism

If you need a bigger argument than reality and marxist trash country after marxist trash country imploding, you're wasting your time on someone who is so totally brainwashed that they can't recognize that Venezuela is another nail in that kike ideology coffin.

>uses this as a goal post for society to obtain, but it is impossible to achieve.
why

also i don't get why marxists jerk off about karl's manifesto. Marx was an alcoholic who didn't do any manual labor positions in his life. He worked solely as a writer for newspapers and such solely to stir up trouble, and his lifestyle was sustainable due to the fact he leeched off of his friend Engels...Actually I can see why college fags like him....


but seriously most hardcore commies i find are at unis and they have no plans to be a worker once the "glorious workers revolution against the bourgeoisie" happens. Like wtf do they think they are going to do?

he is asking for arguments. argument from effect is subjective and not a real argument ( premise + premise = conclusion)

>why
because we are all different as people, not even based on race but even on cultural aspects. Communism expects us to act like robots and do the same job over and over again contently without ever having ambitions of achieving a higher position of power or gaining more wealth.

If you have a society of multi-ethnic people doing the same jobs, there will be chaos because some individuals of a lower IQ will under perform and fuck up the whole process of everyone acting as a collective

*it is impossible to achieve because you can't change human nature of everyone being different and communists don't realize this or they refuse to believe it

>because we are all different as people, not even based on race but even on cultural aspects. Communism expects us to act like robots and do the same job over and over again contently without ever having ambitions of achieving a higher position of power or gaining more wealth.
strawman

>if you have a society of multi-ethnic people doing the same jobs, there will be chaos because some individuals of a lower IQ will under perform and fuck up the whole process of everyone acting as a collective

speculation

just saying that a commie that knows philosophy will laugh at these attempts. i think you are right but these are all subjective opinions.

does communism require coercion to make us all equal? is force required?

if yes, then this moral theory is inconsistent thus invalid.

100 million dead!

2% cell phone battery btw.. fuck. sorry guys gotta drop out.

>does communism require coercion to make us all equal?
not all communists do, Eduard Bernstein calls out for peaceful reforms and to work with democracy, but most commies i met have expressed that a revolution is necessary to achieve Utopia

democracy is coercion.

why would a commie that knows philosopy laugh at it?
It's just basic observation of behaviour
Different people pursue different interests and are all different in how effective they are at doing different things
that's a constant in the real world if we are honest. The all men are equal argument was never true and never will be

The existence of differential outcomes is not in itself evidence of a miscarriage of justice.

and btw how are they gonna take my excess wealth if not by force?

>democracy is coercion.
yeah that is true as well

>and btw how are they gonna take my excess wealth if not by force?
through reform and taxation, though i don't know if this would fall into the realm of lite socialism rather than /fullcommunism/

Dont forget venezuela

he would say that you can do what you want but anything that you acquire that is not personal property like bed or toothbrush, belongs to everybody.

btw what philosophy do you follow, just curious aside from the discussion here

"change human nature" Yep, that's why philosophy, politics, and ideology have failed in all of human history, and that's why transhumanism will succeed in creating a more just and functional society.

taxation requires coercion. so communism requires force, that requires different moral categories based on invalid arbitrary properties like costume or iccupation, which is inconsistent.

>arguments against communism needed

Impossible, true communism has never been tried.

pff most ppl would vall me ancap bit thats just a label. i like voluntary interactions and reject the idea that gun in face can magically create virtue (statism)

Just off the top of my head I think I can postulate the following:

Communism and all the other umbrella terms base their ideology on the fallacy that people across the entire globe have the equal biological and psychological prerequisites and are therefore all equally capable of performing on the same level physically, mentally and emotionally.
In short: they believe that cultural and biological differences do not exist and all differences are simply memes that could be done away with simply if we would start implementing the communist idea on a global scale

it's a shoop

Real communism has been tried. It works in the average family; children contribute very little and get everything they need. Parents contribute a lot and don't get very much, by comparison.

It falls apart in units larger than a single home family.

ah i gotcha dude

Communism relies on personal responsability, gun in the face only works while the gun is in the face, there's thousand of cases around the world for this that are and aren't communism.

no they think that all humans are in the same miral category (correct) but their theory requires arbitrary DIFFERENT moral categories in order to justify the violent redistribution of wealth. it contradicts itself

lol never thought about that. not that absurd of an idea burgerbro.

but property rights are naturally emerging from first principles and the difference between private and personal property is completely arbitrary.

There is no necessary and direct connection between the value of a good and whether, or in what quantities, labor and other goods of higher order were applied to its production. A non-economic good (a quantity of timber in a virgin forest, for example) does not attain value for men since large quantities of labor or other economic goods were not applied to its production. Whether a diamond was found accidentally or was obtained from a diamond pit with the employment of a thousand days of labor is completely irrelevant for its value. In general, no one in practical life asks for the history of the origin of a good in estimating its value, but considers solely the services that the good will render him and which he would have to forgo if he did not have it at his command...The quantities of labor or of other means of production applied to its production cannot, therefore, be the determining factor in the value of a good. Comparison of the value of a good with the value of the means of production employed in its production does, of course, show whether and to what extent its production, an act of past human activity, was appropriate or economic. But the quantities of goods employed in the production of a good have neither a necessary nor a directly determining influence on its value.

so what you're saying is: They pretend everyone is in one equal social class but it would take a collective of people to enforce all their ideas, therefore putting them in a different moral category because of all the coercion they'd need to implement their ideas, which is what they wanted to abandon originally?

Real communism only works in convents and monasteries an even then very few of those are self sufficient. Alms are frequently required. Ironically without religious conviction true communism is basically impossible, hence the need to set up the state as the new idol in place of established religions, especially those like Christianity that respect private property

but children are expected to act as parents command, and cannot be free as they lack the legal requirements to work and earn their own money. its more like a half-voluntary master-serf relationship right

in order to apply force AND be moral while doing it, you need to declate yourself in a different moral category than the victim, yes. otherwise it is just ordiary assault. in order to call it "lawful taxation", you have to make up stuff in order to justify it.

They're 'workers' cause they don't own any 'means of production'.

and that is inconsistent and any theory that contains this, is logically invalid.

OMG, refrigrators will put every milk man and 90% of farmers out of work! Communism now! Gulags now!

OMG, taxi drivers and 90% of truckers will be replaced by robots!
Minimum income now! And lets copy what Germany is doing with censorship laws, arrest alt right now!

Same song, same ending. Communism's biggest argument against itself is history. And if you might say Leninism isn't real communism but it is. Communists are righteous so they set up the system so a person at the top can direct a nation into tyranny. Then when the most tyranical person gets that power, communism blooms red like it always does. A small example, just look how Obama got expanded presidential powers and how the left bitched to no end about Trump inheriting them. Even the left know they are consolidating power too much, but they can't help themselves. Next time they win, the left will just keep on consolidating power.

In a proper family, children do have to obey their parents but in general they can negotiate almost as equals when they develop competence. They can even begin contributing as young adults.

Communism only works in those situations because the parents have innate good will for their children.

It falls apart, say, if the parents are abusive or if they have excessive self-interest.

See any small town where the mayor lives in the best house in town.

And they honestly didn't think this through? Because if it takes 3 anons in an afternoon discussion on a taiwanese marble sculpting forum to realize this, then what in fucks holy name have people who stand for communism been smoking that they don't get to this easy conclusion.

And what about the things apart from their moral/logic fallacies?
I mean the idea of communism basically denies individuality and freedom.
Competition as one of the basic factors in nature is simply being "memed away"
So they're denying fundamental biological principles. How do we make them realize that that's bullshit too?

You gotta read up on it user, the best way to argue against it is to understand it. Das Kapital is the basis, so you should start there and use it as a reference to pick apart their ideas. As stated, The Gulag Archipelago is a good account of what happened in actual implementation of communism in a nation. Documented effects and consequences trump the "muh true communism has never been tried" argument every time. Anyone who argues that hypotheticals are a more accurate representation than facts are just screeching, and should be dismissed outright.