>>120234425

OP is a FAGET

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Labor can't sporadically organize itself in the most efficient way.

>dude free money lmao

Where is political commissar?

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It has numerous times when societies have broken down.

If you love communism so much... GO NORTH!!!

because a leader organizes the labor.

communism assumes labor can organize without a leader.

And then one of the two guys left pulled out a gun and made the other one his slave. Communism.

For pretty much all companies, more money goes to the worker (salary costs) than to the owner (dividends). Often 2-8x more.

I meant it has without leaders.

>that image
Read Marx, you pleb. He literally defined capitalism through huge books, and was the first person to do so.
Capitalism itself is a term coined by Marx - a socialist.

People are literally being paid to distort this board

Not it hasn't.

I'm reading the Communist Manifesto

you weirdos want to destroy the concept of family and think labor can magically organize itself.

the difference between capitalism and communism: well stocked shelves

>the Communist Manifesto
Read Capital, man.
The manifesto is just a poetic little leaflet to incite the uneducated masses.

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make your choice

Frog meme is kill, fuck off back to The_Donald normal fag.

>(((.)))

>be Marx
>complain about society
>never lift a fucking finger and opine on the plight of the workers
>come up with theory that society revolves
>never offers solutions to society's problems
>never offers solutions in his criticisms of systems

Marxists are the definition of cuckholds. Just jack off watching others fuck your wife and raise her kid.

Why doesn't that woman grab the last box? She has some in her cart. Why did she leave one?

I know, but the Manifesto still talks about actual violent uprising, forced seizure of capital, breaking up of traditional family, etc.

I guess they expected different results?

youtube.com/watch?v=t8LtQhIQ2AE

Where's the mass graves? The gulags? Where's the bread lines? That's not socialism!

but user, how can you blame marx for something he had no control over? don't you know that free will is an illusion? marx was but a leaf blowing in the wind. personal responsibility is a social construct.

Marx would have burned all of his books if he could have pushed a cart around Walmart.

>Read Marx, you pleb
ha

Wrong. Labor unions have existed since the industrial revolution began. Worker-managed industries have also been around for a while.

Lol you Marxists are all the same.
I have more respect for the fucking commies than I do for you.

This is the real Marxist theme song:
youtu.be/o49cGq9UUBY

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labor unions with labor leaders, representatives, and forms of councils to discuss topics.

AKA bourgeois organizing labor

Never.

The only times it has were in small towns or farm communities, and even in those village elders usually were in charge because they know what to do and can guide the younger more able-bodied generation

They've been around since guilds were a thing you fucking twat.

Tip top strawman kek.
North Korea has abandoned communism for years.

I wish I was a decent enough drawfag to put the guy with an AK standing behind the commies forcing them to run the machine instead of running a shop or building houses like they want to.

Lets seize the means of production!

And give it to the state!

If you had actually read his stuff you'd know that he didn't think a revolution could just be forced randomly.
He believed socialism was the inevitable next stage of historical materialism (only possible AFTER mercantilism had done away with the feudal system, and capitalism had consolidated labour and resources into huge and effective corporations worked by educated people).
He believed that capitalism is a system founded on perpetual (and therefore in the long term impossible) growth, and that at some point the technological progress would not be enough to secure enough growth for the system, at which point workers would be pushed to the brink (lower wages, harder work, less security) and in the end rebel as a last desperate move - laying the foundation for a new form of society run by the labouring class itself.

Even in an authoritarian state like the Soviet Union, people generally had decently-stocked cupboards after the 1940s and before the 1990s.

>Impose massive (((trade restrictions))) on country

Every look at how communism fails!

Are those guys fucking that machine? Gross. Count me out

Sad to see a South Korean pull this shit when they work themselves to the bone while their leaders pull a communist fast one and just up and take all means for themselves while the Koreans work 16 hour days 7 days a week and there is no means of competition since its viewed as blasphemy and lowering themselves not to work for Samsung or Hyundai

Who the fuck actually believes that communism is like that?

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>North Korea has abandoned communism for years
>it's not reeeeel communism
Real capitalism has never been tried before.

What did the communists use before candles? Electric lights.
Sage.

Not an argument.

But it's not real capitalism.

>That second text
>Refuting anything the first one said

Am I being memed

A collective of average Joes can't compete with educated business men who know how to micromanage competitively

Nothing you've said has contradicted anything I've said.
I still think it's foolish he'd expect the worker's to all get together and establish a utopian society where everyone works to benefit themselves AND others.
This Norwegian faggot.

>it's n-n-n-not REAL communism
Communism is literally and realistically impossible. There has never been a true 'communist' society in the history of humanity.
And no, the first days of the Soviet Union were not true to the ideal of communism. They never relinquished leadership. There was always a class system, there was always the bourgeois.

Fuck off.

capitalism was the only thing hitler was wrong about

It never has, every single time it has required individuals to take command.

kek

/leftypol/ get off my fucking board you rich white college NEET shills REEEEEEEEEEE

Even on paper communism is a retarded ideal.

Give me one reason that I should embrace communism.

>workers magically being able to do any of those things sans capital or organization
>none of his points being refuted
>smelly commie who asks loaded questions doesn't even work there, just shouts his same point again
>muh kill people who disagree with gommunism, we know best for you goy, unless you have money
Commie pls go

Because you get to force rural and suburban retards into a gulag if they refuse to do the job you tell them to

I'm confused about your position on capitalism.

>Capitalism itself is a term coined by Marx
Are you fucking retarded or what?
(pic related is Adam Smith, actual person who coined the term capitalism)

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It economically ruins your country preventing the immigration of shitskins.

>breadlines aren't necessarily bad goy

'The Wealth of Nations' you nob head.

There will always be capitalism. Humans are inherently capitalist.
My idea is to allow nature to thrive with an urging to control our nature.
A mix of authority and freedom, where the people at the top and the people at the bottom are the exact same and it is enforced that way.

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>he's a monkey
>defending corporations
lmao

>Me
>Defending corporations

I wonder where you got that from

It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest. -Adam Smith

>nice argument, but what if I say you're wrong without proof and then kill you?

looks like they had smartphones though

Good enough to cap.

*its not real communism

I think we're done here, guys.

Actually is Communism all the wealth goes into the Jewish oligarchy.

>communists made the ipod
>communists made the car
>capitalists made that brand of vodka
>capitalists love their surveillance

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Back to China with ye.

with enough bullshit drawings you might actually effect something.

>Nothing you've said has contradicted anything I've said.
I think it contradicts everything you said, desu

>I still think it's foolish he'd expect the worker's to all get together and establish a utopian society where everyone works to benefit themselves AND others.
It's actually not so far-fetched anymore. In countries like Norway and a few other European states we're almost at the socialist stage already - though it manifests in a very different way from what Marx imagined. No one has to work here - As Marx predicted the technological progress makes manual labour fairly pointless, and there are two ways for a society to deal with it:
1. Create a bunch of fake jobs, like the US and Japan, where people spin signs and press elevator buttons for a living
2. Give people money and free education, and let them pursue knowledge and jobs as a means of finding purpose and self-realization - rather than something necessary for survival
The second option frees up a lot of intellectual capital, which can bring the society forwards. There's no point in treating people as animals anymore, because it's simply not useful or productive.

If a society fails to provide either option 1 or 2, a lot of jobless starving people will become a real proletariat class, and total collapse is inevitable.

Marx, of course, believed that the collapse was the most likely option, and that people should be ready for it and educated enough to be able to prop up a totalitarian form of government in its wake, which could later be dissolved into smaller anarchist-like communities.
That last part is something I personally have a hard time imagining, seeing as it has great potential for just being a new arena for tribalism and war-lord feudal society stuff.

Should say Socialism on the left and Democratic Socialism on the right.

>Adam Smith
lolwut

Wikipedia:
>The Hollandische Mercurius uses capitalists in 1633 and 1654 to refer to owners of capital.
The word capitalism, meaning the societal system governed by money and accumulation of capital (and the subsequent emergence of corporations and capital-based classes) was defined by Marx and Engels.

This takes a worker 1 day + overtime to earn this advanced piece of technology, once impossible to achieve just 2 decades ago.

>There will always be capitalism
>implying capitalism isn't just a few hundred years old, and already crumbling
Capitalism is going to be the shortest stage in material history by far.
Though I doubt socialism will follow it - seems more likely that we'll degenerate back to fascist feudalism and do the whole dance all over again.

>In French, Étienne Clavier referred to capitalistes in 1788,[27] six years before its first recorded English usage by Arthur Young in his work Travels in France (1792).[24][28] David Ricardo, in his Principles of Political Economy and Taxation (1817), referred to "the capitalist" many times.[29] Samuel Taylor Coleridge, an English poet, used capitalist in his work Table Talk (1823).[30] Pierre-Joseph Proudhon used the term capitalist in his first work, What is Property? (1840), to refer to the owners of capital. Benjamin Disraeli used the term capitalist in his 1845 work Sybil.[24]

The initial usage of the term capitalism in its modern sense has been attributed to Louis Blanc in 1850 ("..what I call 'capitalism' that is to say the appropriation of capital by some to the exclusion of others") and Pierre-Joseph Proudhon in 1861 ("Economic and social regime in which capital, the source of income, does not generally belong to those who make it work through their labour.")

And then

> Karl Marx and Friedrich Engels referred to the capitalistic system.[32][33] and to the capitalist mode of production in Das Kapital (1867).[34] The use of the word "capitalism" in reference to an economic system appears twice in Volume I of Das Kapital, p. 124 (German edition), and in Theories of Surplus Value, tome II, p. 493 (German edition). Marx did not extensively use the form capitalism but instead those of capitalist, and capitalist mode of production, which appear more than 2600 times in the trilogy Das Kapital.

And finally

>According to the Oxford English Dictionary (OED), the term capitalism first appeared in English in 1854 in the novel The Newcomes, by novelist William Makepeace Thackeray, where he meant "having ownership of capital."[35] Also according to the OED, Carl Adolph Douai, a German-American socialist and abolitionist, used the phrase private capitalism in 1863.

It was well used before Marx, and contrasted against Mercantilism by Adam Smith.

>Capitalism is crumbling

You commie shitheads have been screaming this since the 1900s and since then countries who adopted capitalism only got richer and richer

People generally don't want or can't be bothered to be involved in the work this involves.

Quick anecdote.

I used to work for a company that was being sold and in the interim I tried to discuss the workers buying the plant. Everyone in the plant could have paid in roughly a years worth of their wages and owned the place outright with a combined purchasing power of roughly 14 million after taking out a 45k loan or a combination of loan and savings. The plant sold for roughly this amount. Many of my coworkers had vehicles worth more than their yearly wage and virtually everyone had disposable income to invest and decent enough credit to get a loan. Every single person I talked to liked the idea but ultimately wouldn't even entertain the idea of this plant being an employee owned business.

Another company bought out the plant, reduced wages and benefits and are selling it again for a nice profit. The working class are not entrepreneurs. These same coworkers that could have least kept their previous salary in quarterly profit distribution and at best made double or more weren't above bitching when the evil capitalists came in reduced virtually all compensation for our work. It was infuriating to listen to the whining.

I suspect this is more than anecdotal and applies to most of the population. They can't be bothered to form workers syndicates that own the production. It's easier to punch a clock and let some evil capitalist take care of everything else.

Capitalism is an economic system based on private ownership of the means of production and their operation for profit.
>This is only a few hundred years old.

Even barter economies are small scale capitalist economies.

youtube.com/watch?v=Pd4tsaRJBes&app=desktop

>Basing our entire economy on one export and having it's price collapse means we aren't at fault for our failings.

Fucking hell...

>ratings disabled
AHAHAHAHAHA

b-but that can happen under capitalism too so it doesn't matter and Venezuala is great and nothing bad is happening there

It has been crumbling since the 1900's - That's not long in a historical perspective.

The reason for its continued existence is manifold:
>Technological progress beyond even Marx' wildest dreams; The dawn of the digital age made production speed up so fast it seemed for a time that there would be no end to it. However, with the extreme growth, consumption just followed, and so we're at a point now where we need to maintain the pace of growth, but the technology can not be evolved fast enough.
>Socialist revolutions in many countries "forced" capitalists to relinquish some handouts to the working classes to stay competitive on the international arena. Most developed nations now have free education, healthcare, """"democratic elections"""", labour laws and unions - which together made the working class feel middle class for a long time (for as long as the growth continued unabated). Now, however, I think we're coming to point where there is no """"socialist"""" other for direct comparison, the tech progression is halting and resources are being mined out - and so the capitalists are forced to push the working classes harder and harder to maintain growth levels
>Wars: Wars "reset" a lot of things, and destroys a lot of things. This creates room for new "growth" as everything has to be continuously rebuilt.
>etc.

THER ARE LITERALLY EATING THEIR DOGS AND ZOO ANIMALS! NAME JUST ONE CAPITALIST COUNTRY WHERE THIS HAS ALSO HAPPENED!

>Even barter economies are small scale capitalist economies.
No.
You can't collect cows, like you can imaginary money notes on a bank account.
You can't own people by owning many cows.
There can be classes in a barter-based society, but not capitalism.

South Korea

>year round growing season
>richest oil reserves in western hemisphere
>people literally starving and eating circus animals

This fucking level of delusion is insane.

You are not living in a socialist state and never will be, piggy.
We are not close enough to that technological progression for these issues to occur though it is inevitable.
There will be a way, there will be an EVOLUTION rather than a revolution. The proletariat will thrive in the future.


You do not understand what I mean. Capitalism is the concept of commerce and wealth not the system we talk about when we say the word capitalism.