Centrism

Ask a centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader anything. I used to be a Sup Forumsack so I suspect I have more insight into your worldview than most liberals you speak to. This should hopefully enhance debate.

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what are your views on illegal immigrants?
and about the immigrants who don't want to integrate into western culture?

Do you accept race realism as fact?

Several points here:
1. Immigrants generally contribute rather than withdraw from the economy. Also illegal immigrants may well have set up a family here. Therefore there should be a pathway to citizenship for those who are contributing and have jobs. If they're not doing anything of use then perhaps deportation is a good path to take.
2. What can realistically be done about legal immigrants who don't want to integrate? It's a free choice. Would you send someone to jail if they refused to watch football? My point is that it's hard to punish. Obviously integration is good but so is multiculturalism.

Third world countries are not comparable to first world countries

Prove to me that multiculturalism on its own (i.e. not the few high-skill immigrants who might result from it) brings any objective benefits to a society.

you do realise that you can live your current life thanks to western culture. are you really sure that you want to kiss it goodbye? because if you are not going to defend it, they certainly wont.

1. We become more intelligent with regards to knowledge of other cultures. London and New York are able to trade with so many countries because people there are more aware of other cultures than people in, say, Iran where there is only one culture. This helps to make us more open-minded which fundamentally makes us happier because we experience new things.
2. I know you said multiculturalism on its own, but mutliculturalism by its very nature comes with immigrants who bring capital and labour and can push educational standards up. Multiculturalism and immgiration aren't as separable as your question makes out.
3. Culture. When I was a Sup Forumsack this seemed trivial so you may not think it matters. But it extends into all areas of life. Americans like to eat pizza, sushi, Chinese food and listen to reggae or rap music. In fact the burger might not exist if it wasn't for German immigration. Rock music and blues music partly originated from black communities.

Is it "western culture" or is it consumer capitalism? I'm not Ronald Reagan or Margaret Thatcher but the free market means that even working-class people are living at an standard of life unimaginable to people from even a century ago- good food, good housing, hygiene, etc.

>Its a centrist thinks he understands the world edition

>it's an ad hominem rather than an actual argument

>claims used to be a Sup Forumsack
>pro immigration
>pro free trade

I'm not a Sup Forumsack any more

you know I used to be a free trader pro immigration cuck too but now I'm a Sup Forumsack, should facilitate debate

Immigration and multiculturalism is only positive if it's from a high IQ country. We've been over this so many times.
Exceptions can be made if it's from the elite (in small quantities) of some poor countries. But that's it, in a way that doesn't change the demographics.

We need more factory workers than we need heart surgeons, but that's not to say we don't need both.

How do you accept the fact that Multiculturalism and Multiethnic societies leads to conflict and instability, even amongst same-race peoples? Pic Related.

How is the direct mixing of culture better than outside influence on an otherwise homogeneous and monocultural society (e.g Meji Era Japan)

What about the negative effects of globalization, such as outsourcing jobs to cheap labour in the third world, immigration for the sole purpose of welfare?

Why invite the innovators and intellectuals of the third world (whose jobs could be filled by natives should higher birthrates be encouraged), which deprive those third world countries of potential leadership, which in turn feeds the cycle of poverty?

Interesting, I used to be pro-globalism, until it dawned on me that the mother culture (western) is soon going to meet its maker due to the change in the quality populaton. I am still pro free-trade, but not pro-immigration in the numbers we are seeing.

So here is the question:
Do you think there must be measures taken to ensure that current western culture is not dominated by the hordes of immigrants that are taken in?

...

>I use to be a Sup Forumsack
/thread

>Ask a centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist

That's not "centrist", that's far-left extremist.

You do know a lot of low skill jobs are eventually going to be substituted by automation, right?
Plus, in Europe, the percentage of unemployed among non-western immigrants is much higher compared to EU immigrants and the native population.

The UK and the USA have always been multi ethnic societies, and both are remarkably stable, obviously conflict is inevitable but then instability is inevitable in every country.
When labour is outsourced it's not as if there's a net loss, otherwise it'd be illegal. When costs are saved it enables expansion, thus creating more jobs. Jobs in services are better paid, and have better standards than manual labour. The UK has grown economically despite losing the majority of its manufacturing jobs. I'm not going to pretend I know much about global trade economics, but when you save costs you can expand elsewhere. For a simple 19th century example read about the repeal of the Corn Laws in 1846.
The reason we should invite intellectuals to live here is because we want to be considered as the world leader in fields so we can have high-quality jobs. The third world doesn't completely lose out- if people are motivated to study to get good jobs then the standard of education goes up and their universities become better. Also they get money in remittances typically.

I'm not some sort of economic agnostic, the economic centre is a belief in a market-based mixed economy

Culture will change sure. I don't appreciate the Sup Forums language of culture being "dominated" though- culture will adapt and evolve just as it always has. I'm not going to pretend it'll be the exact same culture we had 100 years ago.

Why do you tell lies on the internet?

It was not Sup Forums language, it is a potential scenario. To give an extreme example, if you bring 100 million Chinese to Greece (10 million locals) and give them voting rights, you won't have continuity in culture. You 'll have the demise of the previous culture.

The example was extreme, but the point and the worry are very real and relevant: Should we take take measures to ensure that the mother culture is still the dominant culture?

I believe your answer is "no", unless you want to clarify.

That's not even an answer. Do you believe that, due to differences in population genetics, there are also differences in intelligence, criminality, personality, etc. across different ethnic groups?

In reality the numbers are smaller so people assimilate. I'm not sure what you mean by culture though, as it's quite a broad term. If you mean political culture, I don't think immigrants are likely to favour dictatorship just as natives aren't. if you mean food and art then of course it will change but the addition of new experiences and wider influences can only result in improvements.

So my answer is 'no' as the mother culture will evolve just as it always has. Greek culture has been influenced to an extent by Ottoman culture, cultural evolution is not unique to the modern world.

How did your parents react to you coming out of the closet?

>The UK and the USA have always been multi ethnic societies, and both are remarkably stable
England has been entirely Anglo-Saxon (with the exception of cornwall) since their invasions in the 5th Century. Wales, Scotland, and Ireland are Celtic. The UK was only multiethnic in a sense since 1707, and there have been major issues nontheless (Jacobites, Easter Rising, Irish Civil War, Scottish Independence movements). On top of other, more normal instability. Meanwhile the USA did far worse, with the introduction of Black Slaves during colonial times and the presence of Native Americans, conflict involving race has been prevalent throughout US History (Indian Wars, Civil War, Civil Rights movement, race riots).

>The reason we should invite intellectuals to live here is because we want to be considered as the world leader in fields so we can have high-quality jobs
Then why are you not pushing for education reform? Education in the west in recent years has been lackluster, and incedentally we're beginning to fall behind compared to Asia. Education should teach children about how to succeed in society, not teaching about mathematical formulas that are never applied in real life. Not to mention the expenses involved with getting a decent post-secondary education, which is still flooded with ideological bias.

What I meant by the answer is that you can't compare the intelligence of an average person in Sudan to the average Norwegian intelligence and then say "See, blacks are dumb!!!!". It's a huge over simplification. The truth is that people born in poverty are going to be less intelligent than people born in wealth. Do I believe that there are problems in culture that result in black or Slavic underachievement? Yes. Do I believe that blacks or Slavs are inherently less intelligent? No. When I was a Sup Forumsack I used to swear by IQ charts but it's far too simplistic to say that black people are dumb. The truth is that there are thousands of factors at play (poverty, culture, education, single-parent families) that explain it, and saying "black people are dumb" is an oversimplification that is avoiding the tough questions.

What the shitting fuck are you talking about you fucking numpty cunt?

Immigrants 'generally' contribute more than they take out?

You utter fuck sponge. Do you have any idea of the numbers here. Migrants don't generally contribute, the per capita numbers are skewed by ultra high net worth migrants and very highly paid finanical services migrants.

The vast majority of migrants come in well under the 22k that they cost per capita. Do you realise how much tax you have to pay to meet that figure?

Kill yourself you papist traitor.

The race riots of the 1950s are nothing compared to Scotland outright declaring war on us- democracy helps to negate such problems. I never said the U.K. and the U.S.A. don't have problems, but they haven't suffered major upheaval- the UK system of government has gone without sweeping reform for thousands of years, instead going for stable, gradual change. England has always been diverse. There are many different non-conformist churches here, as well as the C of E, Catholics and of course Jews. There were also huge class divides. If you view everything through the SJW/pol racial lens, then yes, everyone was white, but there are other things that separate people apart from race. In 1800s England religion and class separated people as much as race.

I agree with your point about education, but that doesn't mean getting educated people to come won't further increase the talent pool.

The IQ differences remain through adoption and universities.

Most immigrants here are employed

i am taking about you freedom of speech, the level of art and science. some other cultures definitely value these things less than we do.

...

How much are your yearly expenses, both work related and personal/family?

You cum guzzling mongoloid.

having a JOB does not mean you are a net contributor, the VAST MAJORITY OF THE POPULATION are not net contributors. Importing millions of extra drains on the state coffers is not a good idea.

Globalisation cannot into a welfare state.

Black culture doesn't value intellectualism unfortunately, look at every black musician. It's not a genetic thing, black people can be very intelligent, I'm sure I don't need to list intelligent black people. People who adopt black kids are probably kidna dumb anyway and also leftists have low expectation of blacks because they're protected minorities

...

Yes of course but this implies that people won't integrate, which almost everyone does to an extent. Besides, the people who hate freedom of speech and art and science aren't going to come to Western Europe are they

I support some degree of multiculturalism in the US, I was mostly referring to modern multiculturalism in Europe.

What a fucking retard. Go cuckold somewhere else

>We become more intelligent with regards to knowledge of other cultures.

So you're saying learning about other cultures is impossible without moving them in next door?
Interesting. I'm glad you're admitting colonization was a good thing for those xenophobic Amerinds.

>burger might not exist if it wasn't for German immigration.

Not the burger! Ethnic food argument is not much of an argument. That's like justifying the Iraq War with all the halal recipes soldiers make bring back home.

>north korea

How much are your yearly expenses, both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer and you said ask you anything.

>Besides, the people who hate freedom of speech and art and science aren't going to come to Western Europe are they

Of course not.

>Is it "western culture" or is it consumer capitalism?

Hence why I am a complete and utter reactionary. Thank you for reminding me why I hate the current situation.

I'm just trying to help you here, I left university as a Sup Forumsack who was pissed off at all the cuckoldry going on in the world, but when you do further reading outside of Sup Forums you realise that there's a reason almost every respected economist supports free trade and that supporting controlled levels of immigration doesn't mean you want your country to turn into Mexico or Yemen. If you decide to read more non-fiction outside of this echo-chamber you'll eventually come round to this, the reason i made this thread was to introduce you guys to some ideas so it wouldn't be as sudden

well,look at the events following the immigration flood, it doesn't take a genius to put 1 and 1 together. charlie hebdo is going to happen again if we give them the numbers.

when will you kill yourself

Also clegg is far left

How much are your yearly expenses, both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well

So answer the question please

I never said colonisation wasn't a good thing, overall it probably benefitted the world. You guys seem to think because I support the status quo that means I'm a white apologist.

I never said food on its own justified multiculturalism but it is definitely an advantage.

lol Those sure are a lot of excuses.

Also are you retarded? If the average black person has an IQ of 80 it doesn't mean people ahead of the curve won't be born.

Look I know you hate people giving you 'muh tiny minority lectures' but the truth is most Muslims are as disgusted at terrorism as we are, and the idea that every Muslim is told from a young age to follow some obscure 'taqiyya' doctrine is conspiracy-tier ridiculous bullshit.

How much are your yearly expenses (£/$), both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well

So answer the question please

>pro-European

Immediately kill anyone who conflates the EU with Europe and suggests that to be opposed to the EU is to be opposed to Europe.

wrong. Different ethnic groups have different proportion of certain genes due to evolution in different environments, and this includes genes related to intelligence. This different proportion of certain genes will cause different etnic groups to have different brain sizes on average, ans will implicate in the different average iq between races (and even between ethnic groups of the same race).

I'm not denying that black people are less intelligent, I'm just saying that it's because of many factors not just "hurr they must be naturally retarded", it's much more complex.

> Immigrants generally contribute rather than withdraw from the economy.
So you care more about economy than culture. But this point is also false. How well is your ideal societies in South-America doing? And now I'm not talking about the mostly white Chile/Argentina/Uruguay. Or all of Africa? Shit people = shit economy. Multiculturalism = Low-trust societies = shit economy.

And immigrants also compete against "native" workers. I assume you don't care about the workers though.

>What can realistically be done about legal immigrants who don't want to integrate?
Realistically we could deport them.
>Obviously integration is good but so is multiculturalism.
False. Back that up please.

Do you believe a border should be protected and who comes in should be regulated? If so, how do you mesh that with your implication that "they have families here so we might as well accept that"?

>you realise that there's a reason almost every respected economist supports free trade

(((respected))) (((economists)))? You mean people who are paid by those who have a stake in keeping the system going to say that the status quo should continue?

I'm shocked. Now my opinion is changed. Thank ya for da edukayshun.

>and that supporting controlled levels of immigration doesn't mean you want your country to turn into Mexico or Yemen.

"controlled". Massive flows of illegal immigrants along a 30 year timeline since the Reagan years is antithesis of what "controlled" means. Do you comprehend that?

>centrist
>pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

ok. next

I'm literally like you.

Came to pol as a edgy right wing nazi boo. Obsessed with german history and culture. Mostly wwii stuff.

Been on Sup Forums since 2009, pol since 2014 and now I am a firm centrist.

How much are your yearly expenses (£/$), both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well

So answer the question please

I find it hard to belive you were a Sup Forumsack if you rest your case with this. You make excuse after excuse to get to your supposed truth.

I'm just saying we shouldn't deport people who have a wife and family who are all living here. I'm not saying that if your brother/aunt lives here that means you're entitled to stay.

>I never said food on its own justified multiculturalism but it is definitely an advantage.

Sorry mate. That's just fucking retarded. We would have food to eat without "muh ethnic food". I think you know that.

So have borders until someone decides they don't want to respect them, then it's ok to not have borders? What's the point of having regulated borders then?

If you honestly believe that every intellectual is in the pocket of Jewish people, then you might be beyond rescue.

you'll find that most academics are nihilist that don't care whoever is in power. they just want to work on their stuff in peace so no i don't think they have a vested interest in the status quo.

"Centrism" is a meme created by the establishment to mentally enslave people. How exactly is the open borders globalist vision of theirs middle of the road between left and right? It isn't. But if they say it's in the middle of the spectrum and shun anyone who isn't in it, weak-minded people will assure themselves that the "center" (which is manufactured) is where all the smart people go.

How much are your yearly expenses (£/$), both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer, you are posting anonymously, and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well.

So answer the question please.

>The UK have always been multi ethnic societies

99% white

''multi ethnic''

liar,

Doesn't this just entice illegals to simply come here and have kids; draining our resources? Why support such a dynamic?

>why eat pizza when you can eat potato

So multiculturalism hasn't brought any good food to America at all?

I smell a Jew.

also question

what did they pay you to betray your nation, your culture, your race, your country, your community, your parents?

you probably went to work for a bank, am I right?

How much are your yearly expenses (£/$), both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer, you are posting anonymously, and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well.

So can you please answer the question?

Centrism just means, following what the power dictates.

If Merkel opens borders, then centrism is for supporting that, and extremism is closing the border, even though it's perfectly normal.

Yeah, cause they are fucking lazy.

I see you as an extreme liberal.

It's called a United Kingdom for a reason, there are Scots, Irish, Welsh, Catholics, Jews, Calvinists, Huguenots, C of E, Baptists, Evangelicals, working class, middle class, upper class, miners, men, women, colliers, weavers, artisans, writers, etc. This tumblr idea that the only form of diversity is ethnic needs to die. There is no such thing as a 'homogenous society; there is always stuff that divides us.

That's what it means now, but that's not what it is supposed to mean or what it is presented as meaning.

What geopolitical, strategic, or socioeconomic advantage does ethnic food provide us in the long run?

I like honey walnut shrimp and rangoons. Not willing replace part of my nation with Chinks for it.

How do you justify the fact that supply and demand dynamics create a situation where blue collar worker citizens see their wages driven down by an over supply of workers coming in illegally -- having kids that allow them to stay, by your ideology. Why should a country throw their own workers under the bus in favor of foreign workers?

You're contorting a long ways to avoid making an assumption here, whereas you easily make assumptions about the moral good of globalisation and mixed economies.

For the record I believe the IQ/achievement gap in race is about 95% nurture, but that doesn't change anything about race in practice.

And which of those groups ran the United Kingdom until it all went to shit?

And what kind of child would include men and women, artisans and writers when describing race and religion?

How much are your yearly expenses (£/$), both personal and work related?

You'd think this would be an easy question to answer, you are posting anonymously, and you said ask you anything.

I'd like to know about the perks of being a
>centrist, pro-European, multiculturalist, globalist free-trader

and I'm sure many others would as well.

So can you please answer the question?

Yeah you're right, but if you restrict welfare from immigrants and don't necessarily give citizenship to all immigrants then you can dodge the problem.

Are you mentally disabled?

You can import food and culture without importing the people.

Is affirmative action/equality of outcomes necessary for multiculturalism to work? Is it something that should be continued, even if it puts incompetent people in positions above their ability

Companies more willing to locate in the country, more educated workforce, music, food, culture, cheap labour which means prosperity

>Yeah you're right, but if you restrict welfare from immigrants and don't necessarily give citizenship to all immigrants then you can dodge the problem.
So you're saying that the anchor babies shouldn't be allowed to have government assistance, no EBT cards given to their guardians, and no schooling?

Also, if the food is so great, why do we HAVE to bring the people who eat over here? This is the age of the internet right? We can't send cooks over to their countries to learn how to make it?

Can't believe you seriously thought ethnic food would win this one. Double down plz.

All white.

Yet somehow those who push for diversity, multiculturalism etc want the non-white.

So let me guess, if the UK was already diverse, then there shouldn't be any push for diversity.

But there is, and it's specifically non-white and non-European cultures that aren't compatible.

So, if the UK was already diverse, it doesn't need outsiders to become more diverse.
Otherwise it wasn't diverse and the only reason you want diversity is because you want to get rid of whites. Hence you are the racist.

I understand that you mean well. Our difference is that I predict domination (by the immigrants cultures) where you predict evolution.

Here is the report on Replacement Immigration by the UN:
un.org/esa/population/publications/migration/migration.htm
It is going to be interesting for you to check the Conclusions and Italy specifically.
tl;dr: 18-29% population replacement in Europe by post-1995 immigrants until 2050. Even worse in Italy specifically (40% in some scenarions). I disagree with you that this is going to bring about evolution. It is going to bring about domination.

>americans should be fruit-pickers
Most americans dont want to do shitty agricultural/manual jobs. Also they can make more money and have a better standard of living doing nicer jobs. If i was a nationalist i'd want my American brethren to be doing good jobs, not shitty routine stuff that a Mexican can do.